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Why I Quit Bloody Sabbath

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  • #31
    Technical Ecstasy through Eternal Idol is why Black Sabbath deserves to be recognized as the single most fascinating "artist" the world over ,, without it - pre and post - could never contain the power that makes Sabbath everything it was/is from start to present day.


    As for the Dio Era , when you follow up "Heaven n Hell" and "Mob Rules" with "Dehumanizer" ... please , please , please - insult whoever you want ,, better yet 'embarrass' yourself while doing it , right up til your "Breaking into Heaven!"

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    • #32
      We must remember, in addition to what all of you have already said, that Warner offered a contract for Dio to record solo even DURING the Mob Rules thing. Although there was no requirement that he should leave Sabbath, this destabilized the band's internal relationship a lot. So that, during the Live Evil mix, the band was practically already broken. This gives a sense of the predisposition of misunderstandings and all the madness involved in the confusing production of Live Evil and all stories about the album related over the years.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Geelerm View Post
        We must remember, in addition to what all of you have already said, that Warner offered a contract for Dio to record solo even DURING the Mob Rules thing. Although there was no requirement that he should leave Sabbath, this destabilized the band's internal relationship a lot. So that, during the Live Evil mix, the band was practically already broken. This gives a sense of the predisposition of misunderstandings and all the madness involved in the confusing production of Live Evil and all stories about the album related over the years.
        Knowing this gives a clearer picture.
        "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
        "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
        ________Sabbath Forever, Forever Sabbath!______OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Geelerm View Post
          We must remember, in addition to what all of you have already said, that Warner offered a contract for Dio to record solo even DURING the Mob Rules thing. Although there was no requirement that he should leave Sabbath, this destabilized the band's internal relationship a lot. So that, during the Live Evil mix, the band was practically already broken. This gives a sense of the predisposition of misunderstandings and all the madness involved in the confusing production of Live Evil and all stories about the album related over the years.
          Originally posted by OzzyIsDio View Post
          Knowing this gives a clearer picture.
          Yes, indeed. Even though it was not necessary that Ronnie would leave Sabbath in order to do his solo stuff, the band was (AFAIK) definitely not used to any of their members pursuing serious solo projects in addition to their activities with Sabbath; and the split with Ozzy was only a few years in the past. I can well imagine that Geezer and Tony were nervous in that situation. Very good point, Geelerm. And, surprisingly, a point not too often mentioned by the band members themselves when asked about the Live Evil split-up in interviews.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Sabbabbath View Post
            Yes, indeed. Even though it was not necessary that Ronnie would leave Sabbath in order to do his solo stuff, the band was (AFAIK) definitely not used to any of their members pursuing serious solo projects in addition to their activities with Sabbath; and the split with Ozzy was only a few years in the past. I can well imagine that Geezer and Tony were nervous in that situation. Very good point, Geelerm. And, surprisingly, a point not too often mentioned by the band members themselves when asked about the Live Evil split-up in interviews.
            I wouldn’t be too happy knowing my lead singer is looking to go solo, I’d have fired him on the spot and got his solo career started a lot quicker.
            "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
            "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
            ________Sabbath Forever, Forever Sabbath!______OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Geelerm View Post
              We must remember, in addition to what all of you have already said, that Warner offered a contract for Dio to record solo even DURING the Mob Rules thing. Although there was no requirement that he should leave Sabbath, this destabilized the band's internal relationship a lot. So that, during the Live Evil mix, the band was practically already broken. This gives a sense of the predisposition of misunderstandings and all the madness involved in the confusing production of Live Evil and all stories about the album related over the years.
              Good point. Knowing also that Ronnie already had the idea to make a solo album before leaving Rainbow. Did Tony, Geezer and Bill know that when they recruited him ?
              a very informative interview with David Stone teaches us things rarely mentioned in the past.
              http://jeffcramer.blogspot.fr/2013/0...ith-david.html

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              • #37
                Originally posted by TYR66 View Post
                Good point. Knowing also that Ronnie already had the idea to make a solo album before leaving Rainbow. Did Tony, Geezer and Bill know that when they recruited him ?
                a very informative interview with David Stone teaches us things rarely mentioned in the past.
                http://jeffcramer.blogspot.fr/2013/0...ith-david.html
                Very interesting read, thank you!

                I wasn't aware that Ritchie Blackmore was so prejudiced against black people. Not cool. I wouldn't want to make music with anybody who has such attitides. Anyway, back to the topic - good question you asked: Did Tony, Geezer or Bill already know about Ronnie's solo plans when they started playing with him? I don't know (though my guess would be: they didn't). Does anybody else know the answer?

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Sabbabbath View Post
                  Very interesting read, thank you!

                  I wasn't aware that Ritchie Blackmore was so prejudiced against black people. Not cool. I wouldn't want to make music with anybody who has such attitides. Anyway, back to the topic - good question you asked: Did Tony, Geezer or Bill already know about Ronnie's solo plans when they started playing with him? I don't know (though my guess would be: they didn't). Does anybody else know the answer?
                  I enjoyed the interview for the most part, but don't know how much stock we can put in Stone's observations about Blackmore. Blackmore is well known to not like soul/funk music. Maybe Stone interpreted that a certain way? Or maybe not, I mean the guy might be right on target for all I know, but his stories seem to be stretched to limits rarely seen. He can really ramble. And according to some comments below the story, some of his memories don't check out in other areas.

                  It never ceases to amaze me how little many musicians know about certain other music that is even in a relatively similar musical field. When it gets to the part where he is claiming to have come close to being in Sabbath, it almost sounds like he has Sabbath confused with Kiss.

                  I wonder if he could have pulled off Don Airey's Moog parts in "Air Dance"? I suspect that would have woken him up. ;-)
                  "It is not opinion that Ozzy peaked on Sabotage, it is a measurable fact."
                  -WTB

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by OzzyIsDio View Post
                    I wouldnít be too happy knowing my lead singer is looking to go solo, Iíd have fired him on the spot and got his solo career started a lot quicker.
                    To be fair OID, doing a solo album doesn't necessarily mean that one is pursuing a solo career.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Geelerm View Post
                      We must remember, in addition to what all of you have already said, that Warner offered a contract for Dio to record solo even DURING the Mob Rules thing. Although there was no requirement that he should leave Sabbath, this destabilized the band's internal relationship a lot. So that, during the Live Evil mix, the band was practically already broken. This gives a sense of the predisposition of misunderstandings and all the madness involved in the confusing production of Live Evil and all stories about the album related over the years.
                      Interestingly enough, I didn't hear this part of the tale until the mid 90s via Hugh Gilmour's liner notes in the '96 Castle remaster of Live Evil. Frankly, I don't know why they couldn't have explained that in 1982 instead of telling the press that ridiculous "mix" nonsense.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by A Sabbath Historian View Post
                        To be fair OID, doing a solo album doesn't necessarily mean that one is pursuing a solo career.
                        Hope you’re well Sab Historian, it takes time away from the band and if he’s successful you can bet he won’t be around the band for long.
                        "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
                        "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
                        ________Sabbath Forever, Forever Sabbath!______OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          back in the early days Tony and Geezer who are pretty reserved quiet by nature, were drinking doing drugs and weren't the best communicators by any stretch. RJD has a very big ego not that that itself is a bad thing, and he was drinker and drug user himself. I think it was natural for RJD to eventually become the "spokesman" even "leader" as far as public relations back in the day. I think the real story is buried somewhere, but obviously, Geezer and Tony felt Dio was getting too big for his boots. Later years, Geezer and RJD became very close... in public Tony too but Tony and RJD were never "best buddies", more professional working mates than good friends.. mutual respect was more like it. Over the years I've seen Tony mature and become quite elegant in conversation, something he wasn't so much in the earlier days. He did have his time when the coke and reputation of the band got a little too big in his head too.
                          "Music is so sacred to me that I canít hear wishy-washy nonsense just played for the sake of selling records."
                          R. Blackmore

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Wicked Cricket View Post
                            back in the early days Tony and Geezer who are pretty reserved quiet by nature, were drinking doing drugs and weren't the best communicators by any stretch. RJD has a very big ego not that that itself is a bad thing, and he was drinker and drug user himself. I think it was natural for RJD to eventually become the "spokesman" even "leader" as far as public relations back in the day. I think the real story is buried somewhere, but obviously, Geezer and Tony felt Dio was getting too big for his boots. Later years, Geezer and RJD became very close... in public Tony too but Tony and RJD were never "best buddies", more professional working mates than good friends.. mutual respect was more like it. Over the years I've seen Tony mature and become quite elegant in conversation, something he wasn't so much in the earlier days. He did have his time when the coke and reputation of the band got a little too big in his head too.
                            Some good points, for sure.

                            David Stone, man. The more I think of it it's flat-out comical that he would use the term "us musicians ..." and then talk about Sabbath's "Dog & Pony show." This guy cites Deep Purple as like these consummate musicians (though he is referencing Mark II), when just a few years prior to him joining Rainbow, Purple refused to appear at Cal Jam until it was dark, had explosions and pyrotechnics all over the place, his buddy Blackmore wouldn't go on and then did his Pete Townshend routine on a cameraman. Sabbath, by contrast, appeared in the day, had no lights, went out and played their music and, according to the promoter of the festival who had done hundreds of concerts, put on the greatest performance he had ever witnessed.

                            Oh, and let us not forget that when he was in Rainbow, they had to haul around a fifty foot high multi-lighted "rainbow" to their shows.

                            Stone should have paid attention to his old friend Ronnie, who cited Geezer Butler as not only the best bassist he'd ever worked with but the greatest rock bassist of all time. And who of course could have told him plenty about Tony's mind numbing abilities as well.

                            His storyline is also suspect. Never has anything ever put forth suggested that Dio was still in Rainbow when the Sabbath call came through. And in fact this interview is the very first time I've heard the name "David Stone" used in relation to Sabbath. But if he had a chance to be in Sabbath?

                            What a fuckin' tool.
                            Last edited by Jeff; 12-10-2017, 01:41 PM.
                            "It is not opinion that Ozzy peaked on Sabotage, it is a measurable fact."
                            -WTB

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Wicked Cricket View Post
                              Over the years I've seen Tony mature and become quite elegant in conversation, something he wasn't so much in the earlier days. He did have his time when the coke and reputation of the band got a little too big in his head too.
                              I remember back in the 80's when I was a teenager, starting guitar and getting into Sabbath, wondering what Tony's voice even sounded like, Back then (before internet) it seemed we'd never hear him talk. I think the whole Seventh Star period forced him into coming out of his shell, doing interviews and being "The front figure and all that".
                              We donít see things as they are; we see them as we are.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Axe fiend View Post
                                I remember back in the 80's when I was a teenager, starting guitar and getting into Sabbath, wondering what Tony's voice even sounded like, Back then (before internet) it seemed we'd never hear him talk. I think the whole Seventh Star period forced him into coming out of his shell, doing interviews and being "The front figure and all that".
                                Tony was on the radio quite a bit during the Dio-era. Sabbath did Rockline with all four members in 1981, Tony did "Off The Record" with Mary Turner in 1980, and they also did plenty of local radio interviews. Dio did more than his share, for sure, but Tony was not invisible. Not like it is today, of course, and you probably have a point about the Seventh Star-era forcing him to do even more, but he was out there. I think there's like about a 80 minute compilation of radio interviews with Tony out there just from 1980-1982!

                                Sabbath also did Jim Ladd's Innerview show in '76. This was nationally syndicated radio show in the US and probably nearly every rock station carried it. Sabbath appeared with all four member when TE was released.
                                "It is not opinion that Ozzy peaked on Sabotage, it is a measurable fact."
                                -WTB

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