Any news from Jimmy Bain? Is he ok?

[Sabbathfan78]

Never said anything about Geezer. I'm sure he and Vinny were friends. I wasn't implying they weren't but I don't doubt, at least as indicated by another band member, that they weren't always friends. That's the music biz.

Yeah I know you didn't mention Geezer's name specifically. But you did mention the H&H reunion whihc includes him. So the way I saw it you were speaking about him even though you didn't say his name. It's not a big deal though let's just move on.

[Damian]

It's your perogative to dismiss Bain's claims, and based on other posts you've made recently, it seems that you're going to dismiss anyone who dismisses Dio. That's fine, like I said, it's your perogative.

Untrue. I wont dismiss you for dismissing Dio, but you'll have to show me something the guy actually DID that warrants it. Shaky Jimmy rambling on a tape won't cut it for me, and if you're going to compare him and Dio's problems to Ozzy/Daisley, there ARE differences and ONE of those differences is that Bain was a junkie and as far as I have been able to learn, Daisley was not. Want to call them even? Go ahead. I've known a couple of drug addicts and have seen how off-base they think and how they lie, lie, lie. Is Jimmy Bain lying? Who knows. He's got some issues, sounds bitter, but how is that "case closed" against Ronnie James Dio? More likely you are looking to "dismiss" Dio if you want to take that interview as gospel. You want to keep drinking that Kool-Aid? Be my guest, but please don't label me just because I wont sip from your cup.

[hipster doofus]

More likely you are looking to "dismiss" Dio if you want to take that interview as gospel. You want to keep drinking that Kool-Aid? B

Well, there's taking it as gospel...and then there's turning it into a 'ho hum' matter for the sake of one's own purified image of Ronnie.

[VikingChrist]

Untrue. I wont dismiss you for dismissing Dio, but you'll have to show me something the guy actually DID that warrants it. Shaky Jimmy rambling on a tape won't cut it for me, and if you're going to compare him and Dio's problems to Ozzy/Daisley, there ARE differences and ONE of those differences is that Bain was a junkie and as far as I have been able to learn, Daisley was not. Want to call them even? Go ahead. I've known a couple of drug addicts and have seen how off-base they think and how they lie, lie, lie. Is Jimmy Bain lying? Who knows. He's got some issues, sounds bitter, but how is that "case closed" against Ronnie James Dio? More likely you are looking to "dismiss" Dio if you want to take that interview as gospel. You want to keep drinking that Kool-Aid? Be my guest, but please don't label me just because I wont sip from your cup.

I have no kool-aid to offer but it doesn't seem like your in short supply of your own. It's unfortunate for this conversation that either don't completely read my posts or just take from them what you want to take from them (I suspect it's the latter). I haven't dismissed Dio once, not at all. I've never once said that Jimmy Bain was absolutely in the right and Dio was in the wrong. I've presented both sides, and totally acknowledged that Jimmy could be totally wrong. I like Dio, I'm a fan. I'd totally love to believe that the guy was totally on the up and up and I certainly don't take Jimmy Bain's word as gospel, but I'm not just going to totally dismiss the guy either just because he has a history of drug problems. I'm trying to be very level headed about the whole thing, as I know no more about it that you and I honestly am not looking for angles to trash Ronnie. As far as the Daisley/Bain comparison goes, I'll say it again. Both guys entered a situation where they thought they'd be equal partners in a band and they weren't. Situation=the same, and that's where it ends and that's all I've said. One or both could have been mistaken, I don't know, I wasn't there, but that's what they both believed and that's the similarity. Jimmy was a junkie and Bob wasn't, true (well, I guess, I've never heard that Bob was). This could totally account for mistakes in Jimmy's story or beliefs, true. But even if he's mistaken, it's what the guy believes, and therefore I can understand his anger, but I didn't say he was right. I'm well aware that drug addicts lie, you're not the only one who's ever dealt with them. It doesn't mean that every single thing they ever say is untrue, but, again, I've totally acknowledged that Jimmy could be in the wrong. I just also know that these kind of things happen in the music industry all the time, drugs or not, which is why I don't just dismiss Jimmy as a lying junkie. But, if to you this means I'm just drinking the "kool-aid" and I want to dismiss Dio, well, then, again, you go ahead and believe what you want because your mind is clearly made up.

[Damian]

I have no kool-aid to offer but it doesn't seem like your in short supply of your own. It's unfortunate for this conversation that either don't completely read my posts or just take from them what you want to take from them (I suspect it's the latter). I haven't dismissed Dio once, not at all. I've never once said that Jimmy Bain was absolutely in the right and Dio was in the wrong. I've presented both sides, and totally acknowledged that Jimmy could be totally wrong. I like Dio, I'm a fan. I'd totally love to believe that the guy was totally on the up and up and I certainly don't take Jimmy Bain's word as gospel, but I'm not just going to totally dismiss the guy either just because he has a history of drug problems. I'm trying to be very level headed about the whole thing, as I know no more about it that you and I honestly am not looking for angles to trash Ronnie. As far as the Daisley/Bain comparison goes, I'll say it again. Both guys entered a situation where they thought they'd be equal partners in a band and they weren't. Situation=the same, and that's where it ends and that's all I've said. One or both could have been mistaken, I don't know, I wasn't there, but that's what they both believed and that's the similarity. Jimmy was a junkie and Bob wasn't, true (well, I guess, I've never heard that Bob was). This could totally account for mistakes in Jimmy's story or beliefs, true. But even if he's mistaken, it's what the guy believes, and therefore I can understand his anger, but I didn't say he was right. I'm well aware that drug addicts lie, you're not the only one who's ever dealt with them. It doesn't mean that every single thing they ever say is untrue, but, again, I've totally acknowledged that Jimmy could be in the wrong. I just also know that these kind of things happen in the music industry all the time, drugs or not, which is why I don't just dismiss Jimmy as a lying junkie. But, if to you this means I'm just drinking the "kool-aid" and I want to dismiss Dio, well, then, again, you go ahead and believe what you want because your mind is clearly made up.

If you give any weight to either Bain's drug problem or lack of physical evidence against Dio, then the situation is NOT the same. The environments are NOT the same. Lets say you get caught with an ounce of weed in America, where you would get fined, and your buddy gets caught with an ounce of weed in Thailand, and gets 30 years in jail. You can say "Situation=the same" there, too, right? You both had weed, you both got caught. But it is NOT the same situation. Its an exaggerated point, broken down for comparison. Do you finally get what I am saying dude? Can we move on? Ozzy has "fuck you'd" his ex-musicians and its documented, who cares if its about royalties and not promises about equality. The only shit thrown Dio's way are in INTERVIEWS. I agree, this proves nothing, but to be ignorant to the differences is just that: Ignorance.

[VikingChrist]

If you give any weight to either Bain's drug problem or lack of physical evidence against Dio, then the situation is NOT the same. The environments are NOT the same. Lets say you get caught with an ounce of weed in America, where you would get fined, and your buddy gets caught with an ounce of weed in Thailand, and gets 30 years in jail. You can say "Situation=the same" there, too, right? You both had weed, you both got caught. But it is NOT the same situation. Its an exaggerated point, broken down for comparison. Do you finally get what I am saying dude? Can we move on? Ozzy has "fuck you'd" his ex-musicians and its documented, who cares if its about royalties and not promises about equality. The only shit thrown Dio's way are in INTERVIEWS. I agree, this proves nothing, but to be ignorant to the differences is just that: Ignorance.

Ok, again, you're taking what you want to take from my posts. I don't know what to say because I feel you're gonna think what you want. I've tried to be neutral as possible about the whole thing. You'll get no argument from me about Ozzy's treatment of Daisley/Kerslake. I've stated where I think the similarities in the 2 situations begin and end, you want to ignore that, go right ahead. I'm not going to re-write what I've already said. I've never said that entire histories between Dio/Bain and Osbourne/Daisley were identical. They have one thing in common, it's been stated in this thread repeatedly. I've never said it was more than that. I'm not trying to convince you otherwise.

My whole point in even mentioning Daisley/Kerslake in the first place is that people here do take their word as gospel even though they lost their case in court but Jimmy Bain makes a claim about Dio and he's just dismissed as a bitter drug addict. And hey, it might be true, I never said it wasn't. But Vivian Campbell has said negative things about Dio, too, and that guy has had a successful career and no history of extreme drug problems. Yet he seems to be discounted, too. My own opinion about the reactions is that they have less to do with the people making the accusations and more to do about people's opinions of Ozzy and Dio. I don't want to turn this into an Ozzy vs. Dio thread, as so often happens, but the hypocrisy of the situation bothers me a bit.

[Damian]

My own opinion about the reactions is that they have less to do with the people making the accusations and more to do about people's opinions of Ozzy and Dio..

How can you just look at an accusation and not take into account who is being accused? Of course our opinions of Ozzy and Dio will affect our feelings one way or another. If you favor Ozzy, you might be prone to side with anything that is anti-Dio, if you love Dio more, you might think that Ozzy was a worse boss, but so what? Shit like this can CAUSE people to favor one person over another, its called learning. If Daisley only did heroin and bitched to interviewers, and Bain mounted a real legal defense that went to trial against Ozzy, I would have to think that Bain's assertion held more weight, just from his pursuit of whats right. Didn't happen that way. But if it did, MY own opinion is that there would be a different member locking horns with me because I'm so "anti-Dio" now. In the end everybody can make up their own minds, regardless of who is standing on the sidelines pointing fingers at us and accusing us of "favoritism".

[DiosSword]

I've known a couple of drug addicts and have seen how off-base they think and how they lie, lie, lie. Is Jimmy Bain lying? Who knows. He's got some issues, sounds bitter, but how is that "case closed" against Ronnie James Dio?

Speaking for myself, as someone with 10+ years sobriety, and as someone who was "instant asshole, just add alcohol" I can vouch for Damian's statement, because I did much the same, as did my alcoholic biological father. Substances cloud your judgement, whether its Jimmy Bain or it was for me.

I am hoping that Bain is clean now, and I hope that he'll let go of his resentments (real or imagined) toward Dio. Resentment can really screw with one's sobriety.

[Dr. Tewari]

I believe Jimmy Bain let his resentments go. On the Rainbow website there are photographs of him and Rowan Robertson playing at the Cat Club together after the Memorial Service, so I'm assuming that's out of respect for RJD's passing. Krish

[axe grinder]

There is a retrospective article on the making of Holy Diver in the latest edition of Classic Rock magazine. Wendy Dio makes the point that the co-writers of the songs got their full publishing whack and still do to this day.

It sounds to me like Ronnie and Wendy financed the band at the outset, putting the other guys on modest wages. Also, Vivian Campbell and Jimmy Bain were put up in an apartment in the States while the album was being recorded. The 150 dollars per week that Bain has mentioned was most probably pocket money to tide the guys over.

Of course the Dio band became very successful, but nobody knew this at the start. Ronnie was a "name" vocalist, so it made sense to promote him as the central figure in the group. Let's face it, people didn't go to a Dio concert to hear Vinnie Appice bang the drums or listen to Jimmy Bain play bass.

Bain's recollection of events must be taken with a pinch of salt, due to his lengthy problems with drug abuse. The obvious question to ask is how he paid for all these indulgences if he was being doled out a pittance while Ronnie coined it in. From what I've heard, Bain doesn't exactly live in poverty. Not that I'm trying to demonise a former addict, but they don't have the best of reputations for viewing the past objectively.

[B5Erik]

Well, we found out a few months ago that Jimmy wasn't very healthy, and that he had lung cancer and was misdiagnosed.

As far as any conflict, bad feelings, or whatever, from Jimmy towards Ronnie goes, my understanding is that Jimmy was fired after the Killing the Dragon tour due to unreliability as a result of his drug and alcohol abuse. What he could get away with at 30 he couldn't get away with at 50. He wasn't young anymore, and using drugs and alcohol like that takes a greater toll on you as you age. Jimmy didn't want to leave the band, and resented Ronnie for firing him. I read that from a couple different fairly reliable sources several years ago (before Ronnie died).

When it comes to the money thing, the band DID get paid their full publishing fees (which is where you make the most money from unless you're a Multi-Platinum seller). You get publishing fees for each copy of the album sold, plus from every time the song is played live, on the radio, on a jukebox, etc. Those are some fairly healthy payments, and Vivian, Jimmy, and Vinnie all got their full amount due. Instead of getting a full cut of the album sales, they were paid as employees, and that's where the conflict came up. Vivian and Jimmy expected to be treated as equals in the band, but the band ONLY got signed because of Ronnie (and, from what I understand, Ronnie already had a solo deal signed and used that deal for the band's first album). Ronnie was already a near legendary figure in Rock and Metal, and without him they had nothing. That's not to say that Vivian, Jimmy, and Vinnie weren't amazingly talented (they were), but they didn't have the name recognition to get signed on their own.

And it was Ronnie who funded the whole project. He paid for the road crew, the staging, and the various other expenses that had to be paid. The band members didn't pay a thing for those costs. Once Ronnie did that he earned a bigger cut than they did. Had Sacred Heart been a bigger hit he may have been able to make them equal partners as he promised (per a recent interview with Vivian Campbell), but it wasn't, and the stage show cost a million dollars. The DIO band was barely scraping by because the album underperformed sales-wise. Ronnie and Wendy were banking on another Platinum plus album, but it stalled around three quarter million copies. Attendance on the tour was good, though, so they did likely turn a profit - but not enough to make everyone full partners. That's when the contract issues with Vivian came to a head and he left or was fired. (The story changes year to year, with Vivian now stating that he quit because Wendy wasn't making good on her promises.)

It just goes to show that even when you have a great band, and the chemistry is there, and even when you're playing arenas, it isn't always a life of luxury where you're rolling in dough. Ronnie was well off, but not filthy rich. The band members made good money, but not enough to have a set retirement. The record company made a lot of money, though. They made more than anyone...

[Dante_Doomsday]

He's dead. Died on January 23, 2016, around the same time all the other amazing musicians were dropping dead.

/thread

[B5Erik]

He's dead. Died on January 23, 2016, around the same time all the other amazing musicians were dropping dead.

Sadly, that is true, which was why I noted that he had lung cancer and had bee misdiagnosed. That's what killed him, unfortunately.

We can still talk about him. He was a vital part of the DIO band - his songwriting helped shape the band's sound and his playing was tasteful and rock solid.