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"The Devil you know" effect on Ozzy

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  • #16
    Don't worry guys.. we might get a Tony Martin reunion!!
    Tony Iommi Fact #021
    Before telling Tony Iommi his guitar was slightly out of tune, Ronnie James Dio was seven feet tall.

    Stolen from: Tony Iommi Facts website.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by nunoni View Post
      Will the Heaven and Hell album give Ozzy motivation to do a new Black Sabbath album?
      No. I rest my case:

      http://www.black-sabbath.com/news/2009/03/oh_dear.html

      Originally posted by geekwrestler View Post
      Don't worry guys.. we might get a Tony Martin reunion!!
      That's not going to happen, either.

      Originally posted by DiosSword View Post
      Actually, to me it became history when Iommi broke up the Forbidden (I like that album!) lineup to go down memory lane.
      Some people still don't care for the breakup of Headless Cross/Tyr for Dehumanizer for the same reason.

      $haron is extremely unlikely to allow any new release that does not have Ozzy front and centre; i.e., the band being called "Black Sabbath featuring Ozzy Osbourne."
      DAMMIT - SHE HAS NO FUCKING SAY IN THAT! ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!



      Fuck - doesn't anyone pay attention?
      Last edited by Joe Siegler; 03-17-2009, 11:12 AM.
      Joe Siegler, Webmaster - Black Sabbath Online
      View my CD collection | View my movie collection | What I've been listening to

      "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." (Matthew 25:41)

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Joe Siegler View Post
        DAMMIT - SHE HAS NO FUCKING SAY IN THAT! ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!



        Fuck - doesn't anyone pay attention?
        Joe - what I meant did not have anything to do with her having any usage rights of the Black Sabbath name. She doesn't, as you've said repeatedly, and as I said, the name belongs to Tony Iommi. I never meant that.

        What I did mean was that she is very unlikely to let Ozzy participate in any Black Sabbath project of new material unless Ozzy is given a front-and-centre position, with a hypothetical modification of the band name. That's got a fart's chance in a hurricane of happening, because Tony Iommi won't do it.

        Believe me, I've had to defend Iommi/Sabbath to a hell of a lot of Ozzy worshippers, especially since at least the David Donato era, though not as many as you, since I have no direct involvement with the band and don't maintain the authoritative website you do. You know how it is here in the U.S. - a lot of people (too many!) think that the last album Sabbath did was Never Say Die! and could care less about Sabbath doing anything except being the OzzFest "greatest hits jukebox" and hearing Side One of Paranoid trotted out for the 1,000,000,000,000,000th time.

        I am infinitely more excited about The Devil You Know than I ever would be about an album of all-new material with Ozzy (though I'd certainly like to hear Bill Ward drumming with Tony and Geezer again).
        He is not here. He has risen!

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Joe Siegler View Post
          Some people still don't care for the breakup of Headless Cross/Tyr for Dehumanizer for the same reason.
          I didn't either. I really liked the albums they'd done with TM up until that point and I thought Iommi had his head up his ass for chucking that. I still do.

          That said, I really do like Dehumanizer and I'm glad I got to see that tour, because I'd never seen Sabbath live (though I had seen Dio with his band).

          However, I knew it wouldn't last, and I was actually relieved when they got Tony Martin back and did the excellent Cross Purposes album and tour (which I also got to see).
          He is not here. He has risen!

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          • #20
            Originally posted by blackblood View Post
            Late '90s: the long awaited Black Sabbath reunion with Ozzy is a reality, and the fans can see Tony, Ozzy and co. together on stage again, and for several successfull tours. But so many Black Sabbath fans aren't completely happy, all they want is a new studio album from the original line-up. Too band the band tries to write one but doesn't go that far with the idea, Ozzy is not so focused on the project distracted by tv shows (I don't wanna rate cause I'm a classy guy..) or inspired to do one and always says he doesn't want to ruin the legacy of the band releasing a bad album though the band members got together to write new songs and told the press to have the ideas for around 6-7 songs already recorded (a new song, "Scary Dreams" is played live in some shows and brings back a bit of the old sound, though I've always thought it sounded a bit like an unfinished track that could have been even better with some adjustments)

            2007: Ronnie James Dio is asked to be a part of a project called "Black Sabbath: The Dio Years", he's fine with the idea of writing some new songs with Tony for this release and the process of creating new music with Tony after such a long time is smooth and works so well that after a really successfull tour a new studio album is planned and now already recorded and soon to be released in april 2009.

            What do you think will be the effect of the new Heaven and Hell (Black Sabbath) album on Ozzy? To me, when the album will be released and will start to get a great feedback from the fans and the press (that's my opinion on what whill happen), most of them calling it the real new Sabbath album, Ozzy will feel like "Dio's done what I've not been able to do for a decade" and will truly do something in the direction of a new and most definitely final Black Sabbath studio album, maybe even just to have a sort of last word on the Sabbath Legacy he's helped to create from the start. Btw many fans would win if this should happen, I hope so, as much as I love Ronnie and I'm loving the idea of a new album with him (and would love even another one after that) I'd love the idea of seeing the chemistry of the original four together in studio for one final time, don't forget it, Tony, Geezer, Bill, Ozzy, it all started with them and to me it would be great to see the Black Sabbath Story ending with those four men delivering the last doom masterpiece bringing back a bit of that '70s sound that marked the very beginning of this musical genre.

            What do you think? Will "The Devil You Know" give some motivation-fire to Ozzy for a possible new-last Sabbath chapter from the original line-up?

            Max
            This is the effect :

            http://www.black-sabbath.com/news/2009/03/oh_dear.html
            Last edited by Chris B; 03-17-2009, 09:56 PM.
            May 16, 2010. RIP, RJD.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by DiosSword View Post
              "Black Sabbath" as a band concept is history. It became history when Sabbath became a "greatest hits jukebox" for Ozzfest and ceased being a creative force.

              Actually, to me it became history when Iommi broke up the Forbidden (I like that album!) lineup to go down memory lane.

              Heaven and Hell are the original creative spirit of Black Sabbath. The three songs on The Dio Years, to me, crapped all over the two studio tracks on Reunion.
              That sums it up.
              "There's only one Black Sabbath... I like to call him Tony Iommi" - racer

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              • #22
                have you all forgot about

                i see all posts about a reunion and a final go around with the original 4, ,,,,all the contrversey over the singers ozzy and rjd,
                to me the bset thing has happend with ronnie back ......but


                one big question , can bill ward still pay the drums?, im not sure he can even walk

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by wishing well View Post
                  i see all posts about a reunion and a final go around with the original 4, ,,,,all the contrversey over the singers ozzy and rjd,
                  to me the bset thing has happend with ronnie back ......but


                  one big question , can bill ward still pay the drums?, im not sure he can even walk
                  Bill has been clean and sober for many years, though he does have a heart condition, not uncommon for a man in his early 60's.

                  He is still quite good as a drummer. He filled in for some South American dates on the Cross Purposes tour, and played very well on the Reunion album.
                  He is not here. He has risen!

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                  • #24
                    Gardener nailed it!

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by DiosSword View Post
                      Bill has been clean and sober for many years, though he does have a heart condition, not uncommon for a man in his early 60's.

                      He is still quite good as a drummer. He filled in for some South American dates on the Cross Purposes tour, and played very well on the Reunion album.
                      That was 10 to 15 years ago, what about now?
                      "There's only one Black Sabbath... I like to call him Tony Iommi" - racer

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                      • #26
                        4 years ago the original line-up played some shows in europe and in America (Ozzfest dates) and the reception was really good, the only negative being the short setlists (about 12 songs, in Europe they were a bit longer) and Ozzy's voice cracking a little bit in some points, but we're used to that. Bill was said to be fine, obviously he's not the wildest and most dynamic he's ever been, but I'd love to see him on stage at least one (final) time, quite frankly I've had the chance to see just one reunion show in 1998, in Milan, and unfortunately Bill was not there, Vinnie was behind the drumkit due to Ward's health issues.

                        One of their best shows was in Donington (talking about the 2005 tour) with this (really cool, all considered) setlist:

                        The set list was :

                        Intro : Riff medley tape

                        NIB
                        After Forever
                        War Pigs
                        Fairies Wear Boots
                        Dirty Women
                        Symptom of the Universe / Sweet Leaf (Instrumental medley)
                        Electric Funeral
                        The Wizard
                        Iron Man
                        Black Sabbath
                        Into the Void
                        Sabbath Bloody Sabbath(Intro) / Paranoid

                        Encore: Sleeping Village / Children of the Grave

                        Outro : Changes


                        The show was filmed for a proper live dvd release (without the annoying intermissions among the songs that partially ruined The Last Supper DVD), but those plans were cancelled, you can find the show on the net, great quality and a huge crowd.

                        I believe that's the last time that Bill's health has really been tested, I'm sure he could do really well in the studio, and deep down I think he would love to prove he can say something in one final studio release even at his age and in this era. On stage I think he could play for a short tour, with the right setlist.
                        Last edited by blackblood; 03-19-2009, 05:41 AM.

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                        • #27
                          Actually, aside from the fact that he gets tired sooner than when he was younger, I believe Bill is in quite good shape. Remember, during the 2004 and 2005 tours, he made it quite obvious that if things had been down to him and Tony, then the band might have played longer sets and probably every night, instead of playing once every two nights, but Ozzy needed to rest his voice for one day between each shows. Plus, he said that he and Tony would go walking an hour or two every day while they were on tour, to stay in good shape.
                          Tony Iommi Fact #216: In fact, most demolition companies donít use explosives to collapse buildings, only a good stereo and a copy of ďDehumanizerĒ.
                          "Black Sabbath : la BÍte venue de Birmingham"

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                          • #28
                            I don't think Ozzy and Tony connect on the same level musically anymore. How much of Ozzy solo material would you ever possibly mistake for a Black Sabbath tune? Handful if that in my eyes. If I am not mistaken, Ozzy didn't have much input in the original creative process, which is probably what led to harsh feelings and such that resulted in him no longer being in Black Sabbath and the door for Ronnie to enter.

                            Yes, Ozzy put his stamp on those songs and was a major part of the bands success...but was ozzy more of an entertainer doing his part or a musician????

                            did not Randy Rhoads have to coddle him and tell how great he was in order to get some things out of him? The two of them shared something, the were on the same wavelength, the produced two great albums. To a certain extent, ozzy and zakk seemed to have connected as well, but there are many other people involved in the creative process with ozzy solo nowadays.

                            ozzy and Tony can't connect musically, hence no new material by Black Sabbath will be coming in the forseeable future.

                            if that makes any sense at all, great....this of course is all pure conjecture and totally in my humble opinion and not based on any facts whatsoever

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Gardener View Post
                              To me, this boat has sailed since 2001, when Ozzy refused to record what the band had written. This whole "I don't want to record anything that would tarnish Sabbath's legacy" was only a way for him (and when I say him, I mean $haron) not to have to stay with Sabbath to promote the album and tour while he would make more money by releasing solo albums with hired guns who won't get cuts from the sales. Today, Ozzy's live voice is weak, Bill is more or less retired and Geezer won't write lyrics anymore.

                              My belief is that Tony Iommi and Geezer know it and the change of name to Heaven and Hell is not only to say they will only play songs from the Dio era. I think they were glad that in 1997 they had managed to recreate the line-up that had started the band, they are glad this original line-up was reunited to be inducted in the Hall of Fame, but now that this line-up will not record anymore, then Black Sabbath is over. Changing the name into Heaven and Hell is a way to put all the bad blood and politics attached to the Sabbath name since the early 2000s behind and start afresh.
                              Well, Geezer and Iommi both had tired of playing "the classics." Plus Dio has stated he would never be in Black SAabbath again ... now he doesn't have to go back on his word.

                              I agree with your assessment that money had as much to do with Ozzy's refusal to do the new album as anything else. After all, a solo album you can pay the musicians as session players, whereas in Sabbath it was a 25 percent stake. Certainly $haron, realizing that the reunion with Ozzy brought the band back, thought her man was worth more than that. Plus the obvious attempts to sell Ozzfest tickets by throwing little teasers to the audience "well, maybe there will be a new album this year" when in hindsight it's obvious he never had any intention of recording one shows that in reality the Osbourne camp "used" Black Sabbath just as much as they feel Black Sabbath benefitted from them.

                              How will the album effect Ozzy? Perhaps it will put his next release on the fast track, but does it really matter? $haron's got him tied up becoming the next Ed Sullivan or the two of them becoming the next Sonny and Cher; I don't think it matters much to Ozzy how this project goes.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by mike146 View Post
                                I don't think Ozzy and Tony connect on the same level musically anymore. How much of Ozzy solo material would you ever possibly mistake for a Black Sabbath tune? Handful if that in my eyes. If I am not mistaken, Ozzy didn't have much input in the original creative process, which is probably what led to harsh feelings and such that resulted in him no longer being in Black Sabbath and the door for Ronnie to enter.

                                Yes, Ozzy put his stamp on those songs and was a major part of the bands success...but was ozzy more of an entertainer doing his part or a musician????

                                did not Randy Rhoads have to coddle him and tell how great he was in order to get some things out of him? The two of them shared something, the were on the same wavelength, the produced two great albums. To a certain extent, ozzy and zakk seemed to have connected as well, but there are many other people involved in the creative process with ozzy solo nowadays.

                                ozzy and Tony can't connect musically, hence no new material by Black Sabbath will be coming in the forseeable future.

                                if that makes any sense at all, great....this of course is all pure conjecture and totally in my humble opinion and not based on any facts whatsoever
                                I think mike146 summed it all up very nicely. Couldn't agree more. The first time I saw The Last Supper DVD, the part where Tony forces Ozzy to sing Paranoid til it is perfect. You can clearly see that Ozzy isn't feeling comfortable. That told me that Tony sets higher standards than Ozzy is capable of fulfilling.
                                Last edited by Metal Priest; 03-19-2009, 02:33 PM.
                                http://www.last.fm/user/MusicFan91

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