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I think Sabotage is overrated

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  • #31
    Different lifestyles and ways you live take you to different music. Nobody agrees with everything or everyone. I don't think I even know one whole songs lyrics. I only listen for the guitars. So don't ask me a name of a song because I won't know it. Just how I listen. Don't care who is singing if it's metal. Just blast guitars. And shut up. And I have been listening over 40 years. Just not a lyricist. Why would someone say they don't like something unless they are arguing a point. So what's the point. Why sabotage. Ohh. your trying to sabotage I get it now. It's already recorded to bad so sad. Suffer. And maybe they will write Tortured Souls just for you.
    I want to find, I want to help the children of the graves
    I've got to help the lost children of the plague
    Buried beneath the soil, I will find one lost soul
    He was layed to rot in the last life, I will bring him back for a new life.
    Must find in my mind a undiseased piece of flesh.
    That is what I will raise from the grave.
    Now I will give of my soul to resurrect a burdened toll.
    And from the womb he sprang to live again in a brand new day.
    Undiseased in this new life. To live and bring a story of strife.
    But now he has done me wrong. And I must take back my soul.
    All he wants to do is hit a bong. I will rip him from his bowl.
    The power I now have is new and his nightmare is about to come true.
    Tortured Soul. I now put you in your place.
    The mushrooms that grow from your flesh will soon look better in your grave.
    Tortured Soul.
    Did they already write this and it wasn't good enough. The spawn date 1970?
    Last edited by nothing; 10-28-2009, 05:09 PM.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Icy Sun View Post
      ...I say this as side one is infinitely better than side two. It seems 90% of the fans that know the band past Paranoid rate this as the best Ozzy era album.
      IMO side 1 of Sabotage is better than side 2 but not infinitely better.

      '...that know the band PAST Paranoid'? That's like saying 'the fans that know Deep Purple past Deep Purple in Rock', or 'that know Led Zeppelin past their 4th album'. How could any fan know The Ozzy Era of BS and not know of/have their 1st 2 albums?

      Ted

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Ted Sallis View Post
        IMO side 1 of Sabotage is better than side 2 but not infinitely better.

        '...that know the band PAST Paranoid'? That's like saying 'the fans that know Deep Purple past Deep Purple in Rock', or 'that know Led Zeppelin past their 4th album'. How could any fan know The Ozzy Era of BS and not know of/have their 1st 2 albums?

        Ted
        I meant that only had Paranoid, not that they didn't have it.
        Monty Python and the Holy Grail pic extravaganza! http://www.black-sabbath.com/vb/showthread.php?t=31523

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Icy Sun View Post
          I meant that only had Paranoid, not that they didn't have it.
          Okay, I think I understand now, thanks.

          Ted

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          • #35
            I love 'Sabotage' and find it hard to believe that a Sabbath fan doesn't. Firstly, it is an extremely dark and brooding album even by Sabbath standards. IMO, even more dark and brooding than their first album. I read a review once when I was a kid about 'Sabotage' saying that it was an album that Hitler needed when advancing into Poland, as it destroyed all before its path. Yes, 'Sabotage' is that intense and heavy.

            Also, I personally love that at the end of all that melancholy is the contrast of "Am I going Insane". It's a really nice touch actually! And 'Sabotage' is unique among the Sabbath albums in that even the instrumental/choir musical piece is brooding and heavy!

            Yes, 'Sabotage' is a superb album. Sure, Ozzy is in a dress/gown and Bill is in those notorious red tights, but who gives a crap? If Sabbath's next 2 albums were as good as 'Sabotage', I wouldn't care if Ozzy and Bill dressed like that all the time.

            It's for good reason that 'Sabotage' is consistently one of the fans favourite Ozzy Sabbath albums. And as far as I'm concerned, better than Vol. 4 and Sabbath Bloody Sabbath.

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            • #36
              Sabotage, has for long, been my personal best Sabbath record; so I'd say it isn't remotely "over-rated", but actually absolutely deserves all the praise and love it ever got----and still does.
              "Actors really are the scum of the earth. Their behavior makes arrogant, overpaid rock stars appear positively noble' - Buzz Osborne

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              • #37
                I think it's a great album. Sabbath were moving towards a more mainstream hard rock sound and away from the fuzzy heaviness of old but the songs are there. Hole in the Sky is a superb opener and The Writ closes the album in fine style.

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                • #38
                  I think it's funny how "overrated" or "underrated" are being misused these days. Something is overrated when a majority of people consider it to be great and above the rest while it doesn't have the qualities required for that. Now, "Sabotage" is a record that is basically unknown to the mainstream audience, that sold very poorly when it was released and during the 20 years that followed (it only achieved gold status in the US in 1997), that a good part of Sabbath fans regard as a great record (which it is, if you ask me) while others quite openly dislike it. I don't really see in what way "Sabotage" is overrated.

                  The problem is that today, "overrated" means "I don't like it" and "underrated" means "I like it". How many times have we read on these very forums that Tony Iommi is an "underrated" guitarist. The man is on top of best guitarist polls every now and then, is quoted as one of the main influences of almost every guitarist in Metal and is unanimously considered as the creator of the Heavy Metal Riff. Not quite underrated in my book.

                  I can see why you don't like "Sabotage", but you can't clearly say an album that was a commercial flop, that is unknown to the majority and that a significant portion of fans dislike is "overrated".
                  Tony Iommi Fact #216: In fact, most demolition companies donít use explosives to collapse buildings, only a good stereo and a copy of ďDehumanizerĒ.
                  "Black Sabbath : la BÍte venue de Birmingham"

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Gardener View Post
                    I think it's funny how "overrated" or "underrated" are being misused these days. Something is overrated when a majority of people consider it to be great and above the rest while it doesn't have the qualities required for that. Now, "Sabotage" is a record that is basically unknown to the mainstream audience, that sold very poorly when it was released and during the 20 years that followed (it only achieved gold status in the US in 1997), that a good part of Sabbath fans regard as a great record (which it is, if you ask me) while others quite openly dislike it. I don't really see in what way "Sabotage" is overrated.

                    The problem is that today, "overrated" means "I don't like it" and "underrated" means "I like it". How many times have we read on these very forums that Tony Iommi is an "underrated" guitarist. The man is on top of best guitarist polls every now and then, is quoted as one of the main influences of almost every guitarist in Metal and is unanimously considered as the creator of the Heavy Metal Riff. Not quite underrated in my book.

                    I can see why you don't like "Sabotage", but you can't clearly say an album that was a commercial flop, that is unknown to the majority and that a significant portion of fans dislike is "overrated".
                    Precisely Gardener. If anything, Sabotage is very underrated. For an album that kicks with so much authority, it should come as no surprise that it gets overlooked.

                    There is maybe one song that has that "Mindless, snap your fingers, tap your foot and hum along with the rhythm until it over" superficial dreck that general music lovers have. Instead Sabotage requires in-depth analysis, energy, focus and SKILL. This, quite frankly, is too advanced for the mentality of superficial individuals who believe, "Ah, your reading too much into it"

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                    • #40
                      Gardener is an underrated poster here.

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                      • #41
                        Gotta agree with Gardener's logic too. I'd have a hard time trying to find anyone outside of this board who is even remotely aware of Sabotage's existence. So add that factor to the low initial sales, and the fact that the band doesn't talk much about it (or at least Ozzy doesn't, who has said they peaked with SBS and dismisses Sabotage), then you got yourself one underrated record.

                        As good as the previous albums were, whenever I am thinking of the Ozzy era I always return to this album. The band is playing on all cylinders, plus Ozzy is captured at his most intense. Given what the band was going through at the time, no wonder he sounded so pissed off on most of the songs! Truly the peak of the Ozzy years.

                        And can't wait to hear the vinyl copy I picked up a few weeks ago!

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                        • #42
                          Only Ozzy era Sabbath album I still listen to, as close to a "concept album" as they got in my opinion and their best.

                          I have all albums done by all eras, but post-Ozzy is my listening main for years as far as stuff with Iommi. He's the main for me and prefer the "later" catalog.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Just me View Post
                            Only Ozzy era Sabbath album I still listen to, as close to a "concept album" as they got in my opinion and their best.

                            I have all albums done by all eras, but post-Ozzy is my listening main for years as far as stuff with Iommi. He's the main for me and prefer the "later" catalog.
                            Actually, Paranoid, Master of Reality and Vol. 4 have strong conceptual themes. Sabotage has potentially two separate concepts going on, the first three songs, which can be seen as a unifying whole on the subject of transmigration, and "Megalomania" and "The Writ" which are connected via the Meehan theme (confirmed by Ward), although the former has at least two other valid interpretations as well.

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                            • #44
                              I have to agree with Icy Sun. And while I won't put words in his mouth, I understand his point to be that among "devout" Sabbath fans, like the people on this board, Sabotage is routinely pointed to as the best Ozzy era album. I think it even won the poll on that topic. It's not overrated to the public at large because most people don't know any Ozzy era Sabbath songs beyond the big 3 from Paranoid and maybe Children of the Grave. For me it's the tipping point of the Ozzy era. It has some great songs like Symptom and Hole, but it also has some weaker ones like Writ and Radio, something the first 5 albums don't really have. TE and NSD continue in the wrong direction in my view. But the feeling that it's overrated among Sabbath fans is one I admit I share. Same with Dehumanizer from the Dio era frankly.
                              "But I don't want to go among mad people."
                              "Oh, you can't help that, we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
                              "How do you know I'm mad?"
                              "You must be or you wouldn't have come here."

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                              • #45
                                To those who think Sabotage is overrated, I present you with this link:

                                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF7DC...eature=related

                                - awesome, rocking cover, it'd be great if they did a studio version!

                                Ted

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