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Sabbath doing a Judas Preist

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Vol4onVol10 View Post
    I'd go see it right away. I'd rather have a new guy that sounds exactly like Ozzy singing the old songs better than Ozzy could. Ozzy's voice has been in decline since after Sabotage, and is currently nearly as bad as that of David Lee Roth or Joe Strummer (a.k.a. pretty much terrible). This would also give more "obscure" material a chance to be played (I know I don't want to hear Iron Man or Fairies Wear Boots for the millionth time). As well as this, no Ozzy means no Sharon to deal with. I don't want Mike Bordin drumming, or Robert Trujillo playing the intro to N.I.B. out-of-time like he did on the first 2 Ozzy solo albums (no great loss there, but if it were done to the original Sabbath albums it would be). Wasn't there a song about her on the first album? It went like "Evil woman don't play your games with me" or something.

    Let's be realistic, the original (70s era, I refuse to use the term "Ozzy Era") Sabbath was never a partnership of 4 members with equal creative input. It was more like three talented musicians plus a talentless idiot who contributed gems such as "Am I Going Insane?", and was only in the band because he had a PA.[COLOR="silver"]
    Hey! Judas Priest may have released pure crap (Screaming for Vengeance, Painkiller), but they also released some gems (Sin After Sin, Stained Class).
    I don't know where to begin with this. There's just so many things wrong with what you said. Screaming for Vengeance, pure crap?! Granted I far prefer Defenders of the Faith (from that era), but "pure crap"?! That's just ridiculous.

    Secondly, to call Ozzy a "talentless idiot" is uncalled for and inflammatory. I'm surprised Joe doesn't ban you. All of those vocal melodies from the first eight albums are Ozzy's, with the exception of a few songs. So both his voice -- which you clearly like since you want someone who sounds exactly like him -- and his vocal melodies -- which you must also like since you like the songs from that era -- are more than sufficient evidence that Ozzy was FAR from talentless. As far as a partnership of four members, everyone in the band has confirmed that that was the case, including Iommi.

    This Ozzy hate -- and especially from fans of 70's era -- has to stop. It's played out already and borderline trollish. I don't come on here to hear how much some of you hate Ozzy. I get it. And I don't care. You don't see me on the Tony Martin forum bashing the guy's vocal style. Give it a rest people.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by thesithempire View Post
      Secondly, to call Ozzy a "talentless idiot" is uncalled for and inflammatory. I'm surprised Joe doesn't ban you.
      Luckily for us this Forum doesn't employ some crazy communist agenda...
      http://wickedinquisition.bandcamp.com/

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by sn0wb1ind0zzy View Post
        Luckily for us this Forum doesn't employ some crazy communist agenda...
        It's not communist. But it's like enough already with the nonsense. It's not even personal against Vol4onVol10, but since I've come on here it's been all this anti-Ozzy crap. Do you understand how annoying and tiring that is?! I know the Dio fans on this thread understand that, or at least they should.

        There's no call for this constant bashing. It IS inflammatory. You can say "I don't like Ozzy's vocals" or even "I don't agree with the way Ozzy and Sharon are doing things," but "Ozzy is a talentless idiot" is childish mudslinging and NOT worthy of any Sabbath fan!

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        • #34
          Originally posted by thesithempire View Post
          There's no call for this constant bashing. It IS inflammatory. You can say "I don't like Ozzy's vocals" or even "I don't agree with the way Ozzy and Sharon are doing things," but "Ozzy is a talentless idiot" is childish mudslinging and NOT worthy of any Sabbath fan!
          I can understand why you would be annoyed, and while I do agree with the majority of your statements, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I think its time you realized that Black Sabbath existed after 1979 whether you like it or not.

          Besides, banning someone because of that?! That would simply be a tasteless and unfair gesture. I would be greatly offended to see any forum member banned for that reason whether I agree with their statement or not! On that basis if the moderator was a Ozzy hater he should be able to band YOU for defending Ozzy. Not saying he is, but just little hypothetical turn around.
          Last edited by sn0wb1ind0zzy; 05-15-2010, 12:25 AM.
          http://wickedinquisition.bandcamp.com/

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          • #35
            Originally posted by thesithempire View Post
            I don't know where to begin with this. There's just so many things wrong with what you said. Screaming for Vengeance, pure crap?! Granted I far prefer Defenders of the Faith (from that era), but "pure crap"?! That's just ridiculous.
            Defenders of the Faith is a much better album. Screaming for Vengeance suffers in many departments. With Screaming, Judas Priest tried to fuse hard rock with pop hooks (like the last two records), but unlike the last two records, everything just falls flat on its face. There is not a single start-to-finish good song on there. Many of the riffs and chord progressions are so painfully obvious (Screaming for Vengeance chorus, Electric Eye chorus, the entire Devil's Child) that they present the listener with the ability to only enjoy the song the first time they listen to it. Other songs are just underwritten (Pain and Pleasure). Bloodstone consists of a rambling riff that I hated listening to the first time and never will like (though it does leave an impression, unlike most of the album). The chorus also seems underwritten, the melody is crying out to be resolved! The only good riff (Riding on the Wind) was stolen straight out of the bridge of Steeler. There is only one good solo (or one that actually leaves an impression) on the entire album, and it's found on Screaming for Vengeance (it's no Freewheel solo, though). You've got another thing coming is quite possibly the worst song that Judas Priest ever came up with (yes, worse than anything on their thrash albums), simply because there is no discernible melody, riff, hook, solo, atmosphere or anything that would make you want to listen to a song. It's just a dull rhythm. I won't even bother mentioning any of the others, because they're just too bland for me to remember them (I can't remember how You've Got Another Thing Coming goes either, but I only mentioned it because it was a hit). Thankfully, though, after this we got Defenders, which has a 7-song stretch of greatness at the start of the album.

            Originally posted by thesithempire View Post
            Secondly, to call Ozzy a "talentless idiot" is uncalled for and inflammatory. I'm surprised Joe doesn't ban you. All of those vocal melodies from the first eight albums are Ozzy's, with the exception of a few songs. So both his voice -- which you clearly like since you want someone who sounds exactly like him -- and his vocal melodies -- which you must also like since you like the songs from that era -- are more than sufficient evidence that Ozzy was FAR from talentless. As far as a partnership of four members, everyone in the band has confirmed that that was the case, including Iommi.
            Why should Joe ban me? For an opinion? I don't live in China, I live in Australia (which is quickly heading in that direction, unfortunately).
            I probably should've phrased "talentless idiot" differently; I meant to say he has little to no SONGWRITING talents (looking at his solo work, that seems to be the case). Ozzy's voice was actually really good back then (until Sabotage), but now is only a pale shadow of what it used to be. You say he wrote the vocal melodies- the vocal melodies on early Sabbath are largely Ozzy following Tony, and the vocal melodies of later Sabbath are so different to those of his solo career that I find it difficult to believe that Ozzy wrote them. However, some songs (Am I Going Insane, Junior's Eyes) definitely sound like Ozzy wrote the vocal melody.

            Originally posted by thesithempire View Post
            This Ozzy hate -- and especially from fans of 70's era -- has to stop. It's played out already and borderline trollish. I don't come on here to hear how much some of you hate Ozzy. I get it. And I don't care. You don't see me on the Tony Martin forum bashing the guy's vocal style. Give it a rest people.
            I just don't understand why Ozzy gets all the recognition, and the other 3 get none. Ozzy is overrated; people see Sabbath as his backing band from way back in the 70s. Now he's trying to sue Tony for profits relating to music that he had no hand in making. Some of the decisions that he and his wife have made in order to make more money (the whole Maiden thing, replacing the bass and drums on the solo albums). If it wasn't for him, the original Sabbath could have been making heaps of new music, and been playing more obscure songs on tour (instead of effectively becoming a greatest-hits jukebox with faulty vocals). He hasn't released a decent solo album since, well, forever. These days Ozzy is irrelevant.
            Where can I run to now? The joke is on me

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by sn0wb1ind0zzy View Post
              I can understand why you would be annoyed, and while I do agree with the majority of your statements, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I think its time you realized that Black Sabbath existed after 1979 whether you like it or not.
              Sn0b1indOzzy, just a clarification. I own every album that Iommi, Butler and Ward have done post 1979. No, I don't personally consider those Black Sabbath albums, per se, but I have them and listen to them, and with the exception of the Martin material, enjoy them.

              ---------- Post added at 11:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:20 AM ----------

              Originally posted by Vol4onVol10 View Post
              Defenders of the Faith is a much better album. Screaming for Vengeance suffers in many departments. With Screaming, Judas Priest tried to fuse hard rock with pop hooks (like the last two records), but unlike the last two records, everything just falls flat on its face. There is not a single start-to-finish good song on there. Many of the riffs and chord progressions are so painfully obvious (Screaming for Vengeance chorus, Electric Eye chorus, the entire Devil's Child) that they present the listener with the ability to only enjoy the song the first time they listen to it. Other songs are just underwritten (Pain and Pleasure). Bloodstone consists of a rambling riff that I hated listening to the first time and never will like (though it does leave an impression, unlike most of the album). The chorus also seems underwritten, the melody is crying out to be resolved! The only good riff (Riding on the Wind) was stolen straight out of the bridge of Steeler. There is only one good solo (or one that actually leaves an impression) on the entire album, and it's found on Screaming for Vengeance (it's no Freewheel solo, though). You've got another thing coming is quite possibly the worst song that Judas Priest ever came up with (yes, worse than anything on their thrash albums), simply because there is no discernible melody, riff, hook, solo, atmosphere or anything that would make you want to listen to a song. It's just a dull rhythm. I won't even bother mentioning any of the others, because they're just too bland for me to remember them (I can't remember how You've Got Another Thing Coming goes either, but I only mentioned it because it was a hit). Thankfully, though, after this we got Defenders, which has a 7-song stretch of greatness at the start of the album.
              See, that's a brilliant criticism! With your capacity to articulate that well, you've no need to resort to things like "this album sucks." Let's leave that to the 16 year old's. When I read that critique above, I wanted to hear your thoughts on more albums!

              Originally posted by Vol4onVol10 View Post
              Why should Joe ban me? For an opinion? I don't live in China, I live in Australia (which is quickly heading in that direction, unfortunately).
              I overstated, perhaps. But understand my frustration. Those kinds of statements are needlessly inflammatory. (Also, sorry to hear Australia's going in a bad direction. For awhile there, you guys seemed almost immune to all the crap going on in the U.S. and U.K.)

              Originally posted by Vol4onVol10 View Post
              I probably should've phrased "talentless idiot" differently; I meant to say he has little to no SONGWRITING talents (looking at his solo work, that seems to be the case). Ozzy's voice was actually really good back then (until Sabotage), but now is only a pale shadow of what it used to be. You say he wrote the vocal melodies- the vocal melodies on early Sabbath are largely Ozzy following Tony, and the vocal melodies of later Sabbath are so different to those of his solo career that I find it difficult to believe that Ozzy wrote them. However, some songs (Am I Going Insane, Junior's Eyes) definitely sound like Ozzy wrote the vocal melody.
              That's not entirely true. Ozzy only followed Iommi's riff on four songs of the entire Sabbath catalog: "N.I.B.," "Iron Man," "Electric Funeral," and "Into the Void." And Ozzy was far from the only front man to do so. It's not an uncommon technique, as Led Zeppelin and other bands employed it. At any rate, Ozzy DID write the vocal melodies on Sabbath's songs from '68 to '78, save "Over to You," which Bill wrote, as well as the songs Bill sang on.

              Originally posted by Vol4onVol10 View Post
              I just don't understand why Ozzy gets all the recognition, and the other 3 get none. Ozzy is overrated; people see Sabbath as his backing band from way back in the 70s.
              I agree. That annoys me too. But it's not like Sabbath are an obscure band. It's just that Ozzy made himself into a household name due to his drunken shenanigans, and unfortunately, the media eats that stuff up. But if that's what it takes, then I'm glad Tony, Geezer and Bill don't have that level of notoriety.

              Originally posted by Vol4onVol10 View Post
              Now he's trying to sue Tony for profits relating to music that he had no hand in making.
              But he did. Fair is fair. Tony, Geezer and Bill would be the first to say that Ozzy was 1/4 of the band, and did contribute a lot to song ideas, lyrical ideas, etc. And the vocal melodies are a huge factor in the success of a song, as it's the part that people most remember. Ozzy is a natural when it comes to that dept., proven even in his solo material. He has a gift for memorable vocal hooks. So let's at least give credit where it's due.

              Originally posted by Vol4onVol10 View Post
              Some of the decisions that he and his wife have made in order to make more money (the whole Maiden thing, replacing the bass and drums on the solo albums).
              That was all Sharon. Ozzy and Bruce are friends. Bruce even said that Ozzy personally apologized for what Sharon did. He had no part in that.

              Originally posted by Vol4onVol10 View Post
              If it wasn't for him, the original Sabbath could have been making heaps of new music, and been playing more obscure songs on tour (instead of effectively becoming a greatest-hits jukebox with faulty vocals). He hasn't released a decent solo album since, well, forever. These days Ozzy is irrelevant.
              Well, Ozzy wasn't alone in not completing the album. Both he and Geezer felt it wasn't up to snuff, whereas Tony and Bill felt the songs were good. So, there may be more to that story then we currently know. As to the live performances, that's Ozzy's insecurities and nothing else, though I agree, I wish he'd overcome his fears to dig deeper into the vault.

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              • #37
                Nah...no Ozzy clone...not interested at all

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Vol4onVol10 View Post
                  I just don't understand why Ozzy gets all the recognition, and the other 3 get none. Ozzy is overrated; people see Sabbath as his backing band from way back in the 70s.
                  Would that be the same 70s where Ozzy performed most of the later years from...THE SIDE OF THE STAGE!?!?!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Vol4onVol10 View Post
                    Defenders of the Faith is a much better album. Screaming for Vengeance suffers in many departments. With Screaming, Judas Priest tried to fuse hard rock with pop hooks (like the last two records), but unlike the last two records, everything just falls flat on its face. There is not a single start-to-finish good song on there. Many of the riffs and chord progressions are so painfully obvious (Screaming for Vengeance chorus, Electric Eye chorus, the entire Devil's Child) that they present the listener with the ability to only enjoy the song the first time they listen to it. Other songs are just underwritten (Pain and Pleasure). Bloodstone consists of a rambling riff that I hated listening to the first time and never will like (though it does leave an impression, unlike most of the album). The chorus also seems underwritten, the melody is crying out to be resolved! The only good riff (Riding on the Wind) was stolen straight out of the bridge of Steeler. There is only one good solo (or one that actually leaves an impression) on the entire album, and it's found on Screaming for Vengeance (it's no Freewheel solo, though). You've got another thing coming is quite possibly the worst song that Judas Priest ever came up with (yes, worse than anything on their thrash albums), simply because there is no discernible melody, riff, hook, solo, atmosphere or anything that would make you want to listen to a song. It's just a dull rhythm. I won't even bother mentioning any of the others, because they're just too bland for me to remember them (I can't remember how You've Got Another Thing Coming goes either, but I only mentioned it because it was a hit). Thankfully, though, after this we got Defenders, which has a 7-song stretch of greatness at the start of the album.
                    Even though this thread is about Sabbath and not Priest per se, I must say I admire your POV on what will always be Priest's most cliched and virtually worthless work. I wouldn't be surprised though if people read your post here(or anywhere else you made it) and responded with the most cliched(Coincidence?) response: "You Don't Like It Because It Is Popular, Your Just Trying To Be Different" - Not taking the time out to actually see your just voicing your opinion in a way that you have every right to and, furthermore, not realizing that such albums you just critiqued is musical equivalent to that of a placebo.

                    Just like with Painkiller or in Sabbath's case, Master Of Reality, I will think back to the words of New Zealand professor of philosophy Dennis Dutton when he critiqued the writing of a Judith Butler.

                    "To ask what this means is to miss the point. This sentence beats readers into submission and instructs them that they are in the presence of a great and deep mind. Actual communication has nothing to do with it."

                    I mention this because for those aforementioned albums or what you referred to as Priest's 'Thrash Metal' albums, exactly the same thing can be said for them for exactly the same reason:

                    "For to ask what these songs/albums means is to miss the point. This song/album beats the listener into submission and instructs them that they are in the presence of a great and deep mind. Actual communication, story-telling and narrative has nothing to do with it."
                    Last edited by Ashley Dalby; 05-18-2010, 06:57 PM.

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