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  • Why this reunion is a BAD thing

    Hi everyone, it's been probably more than a year since I've posted here, and since the announcement on the eleventh, I've felt inclined to make this thread. First off, I'd like to start off by saying that I like the Ozzy era. Not as much as the Dio or the Martin era, but I do enjoy listening to the original line up of the sabs more than almost any other band. So, now that we have that out of the way...

    Black Sabbath is the greatest band of all time. I can't think of another band that's better. They created a genre, they were the first of their kind, and their influence on rock music is only seconded by the Beatles. With this band being so great and so important, they should live on forever, so people many years from the end of Sabbath can enjoy their music. Such a band should leave behind an amazing legacy.

    And THAT is where my argument comes in. TDYK was the second best Sabbath record released with Dio. The Iommi does his work with the guitar as he's done for the past 45 years, and Dio still belted out the vocals as if it were 1981. everything was in tune, and everything came out to near perfection. the thing that really stands out to me is the lyrics, though; it's been a long time since I've heard something new come out with writing like that.

    But then, there's the this album coming out. I have faith that Bill Ward can still play on a set as well as he could in 1970. I know Geezer has stayed on his game, and Iommi probably hasn't had a day without playing guitar since he severed his fingers. Ozzy, however, is the complete opposite. I don't know exactly when his voice went to shit, but it's been a long time. Actually, to be honest, it's been a long time since he's released a record worth listening to... Sometime around the death of Rhoads. Is this really what we want to hear? I can tell you now, I'll be buying the album, but I sincerely hope that that there's some long guitar solos.

    So, anyone up for an all instrumental version of the album?
    "i'm 12 and i love dark sabboth"

  • #2
    This whole "ruining the legacy" thing is getting cheesy and played out, obviously you enjoy the DIO and Martin stuff more and that chapter is closed so why don't you just move on and let the fans of the original lineup enjoy this not to mention all the new younger fans who haven't had the opportunity to see them yet?
    Upping The Irons and Defending The Faith

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    • #3
      His voice sounded better than it has in well over a decade when I saw him live at Ozzfest this last tour. Sounded much stronger than it did for their first reunion, I think people should cut Ozzy some slack, he obviously put alot of work into his voice before this tour and it showed.
      "I don't care which god you follow, whose promises you swallow" - Ronnie James Dio
      http://www.reverbnation.com/breakingintoheaven?#!
      http://www.facebook.com/pages/Breaki...916616&ref=sgm

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      • #4
        I don't recall seeing anywhere that the reunion album will somehow erase the first six albums from existence.

        Sabbath's legacy will be just fine.

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        • #5
          I think Ozzy's voice was crap on the high notes (live at least) from 1975 and on... His low register is still good though, saw him last year and he was great. His records have been bad for a long time imo, but that's cos he hasn't got a good band to write with, and he has written with producers... that's not a good sign. This new album will be a band effort like in the good old days, and I have faith in that it will turn out great!

          You know what is fun? We disagree even more :D

          No, TDYK is NOT the second best Dio-era "Sabbath" album, it is fourth best. No he does not sing as good as he did in 1981, but I don't think you meant that literally. And yeah, the lyrics are good, but they are not his best and there are artists today that imo are on a similar level lyrically, my personal choice would be "Black Bonzo". Don't get me wrong, Dio is the greatest poet that has ever existed if you ask me, but that particular album is NOT "better than everything else from that decade" as some people make it seem like. Imo. ^^
          "I am the crazy man who lives inside your head, but I think I'm breaking through the wall... You are the innocent convicted of the crime, no one was ever there to catch you when you fall" (1992)
          -Ronnie James Dio, Rest in Peace

          "In the summer days we flew to the sun, on melting wings, but the seasons changed to fast, leave us all behind... Blind..." (1969)
          - Jon Lord, Rest in Peace

          My first album!!!:
          http://open.spotify.com/album/60jv1AdlWvi1KlcR8JhG4b

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          • #6
            If you don't ever try then you'll never fail - what a gutless outlook that would be for any band to have.

            All this 'spoiling the legacy' shite makes me laugh, it annoyed me a bit that the band themselves used to think like that. I'm glad they got over it and will (hopefully) just get the fuck on with it! I hope they have a blast, I hope the results aren't bad. I couldn't care less if it's a bit patchy, I don't care what happens, it will be exciting finding out. I hope it doesn't get leaked... and when it sees the light of day, if it blows us all away then what a fuckin bonus that would be!

            But there's one way I can absolutely guarantee it won't be exciting finding out, which also 100% guarantees that they don't stagger us all with a masterpiece... and that's if they don't even try. If they get all worked up about some legacy nonsense and go home crying instead. Hopefully they are way beyond that now.

            There is a simple solution by which anyone can ensure that no matter what they do, they don't spoil the legacy for themselves. That is you could simply not buy it yourself. Don't ever listen to it. Don't take the chance of finding out. That keeps the legacy nicely in tact for you and leaves the rest of us to enjoy this whole 'new album' thing.

            Originally posted by Josef_K View Post
            No, TDYK is NOT the second best Dio-era "Sabbath" album, it is fourth best.
            Totally agree with ya Josef_K.

            And whilst IMO it is the 4th best Dio-Sabbath, in no way did it make me go weeping over the loss of any legacy.
            I don't need wings to reach the sky
            And I don't need hands to hold you tight...
            ~~~ Coroner ~~~

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            • #7
              I don't think anything short of a dance, rap, or John Denver style album is going to tarnish these guys legacy.

              And imo, as much as they've meant to heavy music, they certainly deserve to make another album if they feel like they have that in them.

              To be honest, I don't want them to try to emulate today's bands, either the sound or the production.

              Just set the guys up in a room, Ozzy in a vocal booth, Iommi starts the riff, the others add their parts in, Oz comes up with a melody line, and Geezer writes the lyrics, with a hand from Oz. It worked real well for the first 4 albums, and I think thats the winning formula this time out.

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              • #8
                Perhaps I was being overzealous. Maybe I should have said something along the lines of 'Ozzy is going to suck on this album. I wish his voice was better, and I certainly hope that he doesn't ruin this album for me (which he has the potential to do)'.

                I think ending Sabbath with the death of Dio would have been best. Having said that, if the world tour is in fact 'massive', then I certainly hope that they make a stop in Halifax.
                "i'm 12 and i love dark sabboth"

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                • #9
                  Well, we'll just have to hear....

                  But I think we're going to get the best effort that each of them can muster at this time in their lives.
                  If they're pleased enough to release it, then the rest of us will have to deal with it.

                  Obviously there'll be the basic questions; can Oz sing, can Geezer write a full album of lyrics, can Bill be creative enough to come up with and find space on the songs to add his flavor to it, will Tony be willing to give up some control of the process to let it be a band effort.

                  Just my opinion, but the track record is good enough for me to go buy it on the first day it comes out, and at least give it a spin or two,
                  before deciding on where it fits on the list in their catalog.

                  Highly anticipate this release, is a good choice of words for it, and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in thinking that.

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                  • #10
                    I would speculate that the time they spent this summer playing live together allowed them to work out any kinks and they came to the conclusion that all 4 were physically up to the challenge of recording an album and going on tour. As for the writing and recoeding process hopefully they hashed that out as well. In reading Tony's biography it is clear that while he is capable of taking control he prefers interaction and contribution from the likes of Geezer, Bill, and Ozzy. If that occurs I think we will get a nice coda to the Sabbath story.

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                    • #11
                      Can't say I agree with ya, WarningRules. This album's gonna kick ass. So is the tour. I predict it.
                      Black metal > Whatever you like, sorry. *shrugs*

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                      • #12
                        This is an awesome thing man. Correct me if i'm wrong but I don't think most people were expecting something of this level. A new studio album and a massive tour! Even if the new album isn't very good, the original 8 albums aren't going anywhere. I also agree that the original 4 should end the Sabbath story so if this is the final tour ever then i'm glad the MK1 lineup finished it, if not then more Sabbath for us to enjoy!

                        Originally posted by Josef_K View Post
                        No, TDYK is NOT the second best Dio-era "Sabbath" album, it is fourth best.
                        Agreed with that as well for me. The Devil You Know is very good but at the same time the album comes off as kind of bland to me for some reason. The other 3 are listened to much more.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by WarningRules View Post
                          Perhaps I was being overzealous. Maybe I should have said something along the lines of 'Ozzy is going to suck on this album. I wish his voice was better, and I certainly hope that he doesn't ruin this album for me (which he has the potential to do)'.

                          I think ending Sabbath with the death of Dio would have been best. Having said that, if the world tour is in fact 'massive', then I certainly hope that they make a stop in Halifax.
                          Totally get where you're coming from, Ozzy's vox haven't really blown me away since about 1983. But I'd still rather they gave it a shot. This may well bring out the best of him, perhaps it's where he belongs, will put him in his element.
                          I don't need wings to reach the sky
                          And I don't need hands to hold you tight...
                          ~~~ Coroner ~~~

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                          • #14
                            I would agree that the album has potential for ruining their legacy, (if it's bad) except for one thing: the original band's last album was Never Say Die, which was a great album, but only Sabbath fans really like it; it really had no hits, kind of failed on the charts, had mixed critical reception, etc. So by adding a new album to their repertoire, the only people they could dissapoint is the huge fans, but they could also make their 9th album something incredible and add to their legacy, so for me, little harm done.
                            My Rock, Alternative, and Metal review page:

                            http://deadrockanthem.blogspot.com/

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                            • #15
                              While I agree that Ozzy's vocals have gone in the toilet, and it's like he's singing while gurgling a mouthful of toilet water, what makes me a little hopeful is the unique combination of personalities this reunion affords. The four of them used to have amazing chemistry writing music together. Imagining they can find that magic again or discover some new kind of magic may be like hoping the 1982 Washington Redskins will get back together and win another super bowl, I know. But they are still, when it comes right down to it, the same four guys at their core, and this is music, not a contact sport. If they can reach down into that core and resummon the mysterious fifth member, they have a shot at making something great. And if the material is great, so what if they have to use a bit of judiciously applied auto-tune?

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