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  • Originally posted by ZepHead View Post
    Kudos to you for this post. I never understand why people are always trying to overanalyze things.
    I think not. Let's see, they go to all that effort to create a masterful marketing plan with video releases every month, but they aren't smart enough to come up with anything better than a working title for the album? Sounds like some serious under analysis to me. Joe said long back not to criticize the title as its meaning will be interesting when finally learned. The guys deserve more credit for originality than they are being given here.
    Last edited by Now in Darkness; 04-28-2013, 01:23 AM.
    Casting his shadow, weaving his spell, funny clothes, tinkling bell.

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    • Originally posted by Now in Darkness View Post
      Joe said long back not to criticize the title as its meaning will be interesting when finally learned.
      That sounds more like speculation than anything else. I'm not saying there can't be a deeper meaning behind the title, but really - it isn't an original title. Many bands have used it before and there was no deeper meaning to it when they used it. What makes Black Sabbath any different?

      Ozzy said last year that "next year is a good clue of what the album title will be". 2013.
      Can you sleep at night, when you close your eyes
      Do you think of all the pain from your lies
      Or do you deny, you're responsible
      For the victims of the sins you devised

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      • Originally posted by Soul Sucker View Post
        Ozzy said last year that "next year is a good clue of what the album title will be". 2013.
        Doesn't mean that there isn't some other meaning behind it though. But, hey, lets not get too wound up by it guys........ I'm looking forward to all be revealed soon. Could be Volume 13 as OzzyIsDio has speculated. When it was first announced I did wonder if it might be a reference to 2012 not being the end of the world????
        Andreaus

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        • Originally posted by OzzyIsDio View Post
          1. Black Sabbath
          2. Paranoid
          3. Master Of Reality
          4. Vol. 4
          5. Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
          6. Sabotage
          7. Technical Ecstacy
          8. Never Say Die
          9. Heaven And Hell
          10. Mob Rules
          11. Dehumanizer
          12. The Devil You Know
          13. 13

          I hope this answers your question.
          That's a tough pill to swallow, you can cherry-pick a few different combinations to "arrive" at 13. The lineup as it stands, with Ozzy in front, acknowledges the Dio eras grudgingly, at best. At the very least, this new release really is not being associated in any way to any non-Ozzy time in the band's history. If you only want to count albums that have new material, then where is Reunion, with Psycho Man and Selling Our Soul? And technically, TDYK is NOT a Black Sabbath album, why would that be counted as number "12"? If it were, then you might as well include The Dio Years, since the three original songs there actually ARE Black Sabbath numbers.

          This concept honestly works better if you remove Dio completely and toss in Live at Last AND Reunion, We Sold Our Soul for Rock and Roll, and Past Lives to bring the total to 12.
          Damian
          Super Moderator
          Black-Sabbath.com

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          • I certainly believe the Title itself, being a Title and not the story alone, is of strictly the year- 2013, while the story to be heard read and or felt thru the music and collaborating lyricism will be told in great elaboration of exactly why the stark preambling title of (20)13 was chosen, to provide a stark chilling inkling of to why all of these songs about the blear and peril of the times are organized as they are and where they are, all under the helm of a title as such, the title to a story of these fine wise (;p) geezers who have seen the world since post war gloom develop into how it lives and functions and rattles with terror today, a stark title for a stark telling of the modern tumult. In synopsis for any unclarity gleaned, I believe the Title is a ultimately concise preamble to the tale to be told in the songs organized diligently so. Just think of the titles and lyrics we have been doled thus far- zeitgeist, god is dead, the end of the beginning- all under the hip tip lead of the TITLE 13, for me the sensibility is uncanny.

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            • You guys might be right about the title and it's linkage to 2013. I would like to believe that there is still something deeper to it though. If it is strictly about 2013, then the graphic would make more sense to me if it was represented as '13, as opposed to 13. There has been a lot of meaningful depth to the marketing of the project, and I am still anticipating a further meaning or some sort of double entendre. I still find it hard to believe that the meaning of the title could be so simplistic and straight forward.
              Last edited by Now in Darkness; 04-28-2013, 11:58 AM.
              Casting his shadow, weaving his spell, funny clothes, tinkling bell.

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              • Originally posted by Damian View Post
                That's a tough pill to swallow, you can cherry-pick a few different combinations to "arrive" at 13. The lineup as it stands, with Ozzy in front, acknowledges the Dio eras grudgingly, at best. At the very least, this new release really is not being associated in any way to any non-Ozzy time in the band's history. If you only want to count albums that have new material, then where is Reunion, with Psycho Man and Selling Our Soul? And technically, TDYK is NOT a Black Sabbath album, why would that be counted as number "12"? If it were, then you might as well include The Dio Years, since the three original songs there actually ARE Black Sabbath numbers.

                This concept honestly works better if you remove Dio completely and toss in Live at Last AND Reunion, We Sold Our Soul for Rock and Roll, and Past Lives to bring the total to 12.
                By including the Dio albums in the numerical order, maybe it was Ozzy's way of finally accepting the Dio albums as Sabbath, in some way showing respect to the man now that he is gone.

                The Devil You Know was titled as a Heaven And Hell release with the Mob Rules line-up for legal and performing reasons, we all know that, but it was truly Sabbath, no one can deny that.

                I think this was Ozzy's way of showing Ronnie James Dio the due respect he was due, now that the man is passed and gone.

                If you don't want to include TDYK, you can take it out and replace it with Born Again, there are many combinations that will equal to 13.

                Thank you for your input Damian, and for quoting my post.
                "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
                "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
                ________Sabbath Forever, Forever Sabbath!______OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

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                • I hope that the true meaning of the title "13" will never be fully revealed nor explained. The title alone is a little piece of art itself: it's been realized based on subjective ideas, it's been directed objectively to us fans, then finally we all can make up our own minds as to what it means to each of us, subjectively. Some mystery is always welcome, it keeps our minds swirling around it.

                  If the title will be explained, then it's just "Oh, it means that. That's something I didn't think about. Wow. Oh well, end of discussion."
                  "He is the King of all kings, the keeper of light...He holds eternity's wings"

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                  • Originally posted by Now in Darkness View Post
                    You guys might be right about the title and it's linkage to 2013. I would like to believe that there is still something deeper to it though. If it is strictly about 2013, then the graphic would make more sense to me if it was represented as '13, as opposed to 13. There has been a lot of meaningful depth to the marketing of the project, and I am still anticipating a further meaning or some sort of double entendre. I still find it hard to believe that the meaning of the title could be so simplistic and straight forward.
                    I reckon the double entendre could easily be as 13's hapless repute and the horror fragile feel and apparent construct of the times as I mentioned above your post. the double entendre retaining the uncanny

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                    • Can't argue that, but I am still holding out for a slightly deeper meaning than just the year 2013, but here are some things to rattle around for the heck of it:

                      -Black Sabbath's debut album was released on February, Friday the 13th, 1970.

                      -Psalm 13 is strongly linked to a notion that God is Dead? and Black Sabbath referenced Matthew 25:41 on the cover of TDYK.

                      -Brad Wilk's favorite number is 3. He has it tattooed on his body and adorned on his equipment, and other things. Could be "1" Black Sabbath joined by "3" Brad Wilk.

                      - The album will be released in 2013.

                      -Geezer said that the title was a working title, but it was inspired by a "poke at Ozzy".

                      -If the title is simply a reference to the year of its release, I am surprised that someone from the band hasn't just stated exactly that when asked about it. There has always been some skirting of a discussion about the title, which makes me think that they didn't want to disclose too much before the appropriate time.

                      -Knowing full well that this could be their last album ever, do you believe that they would leave this aspect of the project to chance? Or do you think that they put as much effort into a deeply meaningful title as they did artwork, songs, song titles, and media marketing. I think they are far too creative to not put more effort into the meaning of the title.


                      I'll probably be wrong in the end, but I think the year 2013 is only part of the story, but I do get what everyone is saying. You'll probably be right. I'm just one of those deep digger type personalities, I guess.
                      Last edited by Now in Darkness; 04-28-2013, 05:34 PM.
                      Casting his shadow, weaving his spell, funny clothes, tinkling bell.

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                      • I dig you digging deep and surely resonate and surely delve as nerdy as can sniff about the grounds allowed, but personally I thru my romanticism with the information shown thru media exposures, title leaks, song debuts and such really find a striking existential poetry in all of aforementioned seen heard and or felt.

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                        • Originally posted by OzzyIsDio View Post
                          By including the Dio albums in the numerical order, maybe it was Ozzy's way of finally accepting the Dio albums as Sabbath, in some way showing respect to the man now that he is gone.

                          I think this was Ozzy's way of showing Ronnie James Dio the due respect he was due, now that the man is passed and gone.
                          I love your positive vibe, but I really, really doubt this is how it came about.
                          ***Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of other internet people, the internet police or the internet in general. It is to be assumed that all sentences are automatically followed by "IMO, BUDDY" as to not offend other internet people and start an internet fight.

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                          • Originally posted by OzzyIsDio View Post
                            The Devil You Know was titled as a Heaven And Hell release with the Mob Rules line-up for legal and performing reasons, we all know that, but it was truly Sabbath, no one can deny that.
                            And those "legal and performing" reasons were Ozzy and Sharon's idea. They didn't WANT any more Black Sabbath with Ronnie. No one has ever linked Ronnie to any of this process, throughout the writing, recording, marketing, nothing, not a whisper. Dio has been and will continue to be a non-factor in everything about 13 and today's Black Sabbath.

                            I take that back. MAYBE he'll get a mention in the liner notes, but even then it would most likely be under "Geezer thanks..." specifically.

                            Sorry dude, I agree with Hipster here. Your wheels are turning fine, they just need better traction.
                            Damian
                            Super Moderator
                            Black-Sabbath.com

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                            • Originally posted by hipster doofus View Post
                              I love your positive vibe, but I really, really doubt this is how it came about.
                              Originally posted by Damian View Post
                              And those "legal and performing" reasons were Ozzy and Sharon's idea. They didn't WANT any more Black Sabbath with Ronnie. No one has ever linked Ronnie to any of this process, throughout the writing, recording, marketing, nothing, not a whisper. Dio has been and will continue to be a non-factor in everything about 13 and today's Black Sabbath.

                              I take that back. MAYBE he'll get a mention in the liner notes, but even then it would most likely be under "Geezer thanks..." specifically.

                              Sorry dude, I agree with Hipster here. Your wheels are turning fine, they just need better traction.
                              Thank you both for your insight, deep down I wish Ozzy would man up and give the man, the respect he so much deserved.

                              Maybe it is just wishful thinking on my part, as far as Sharon goes I could say a few things, but I'd probably get banned so it's not worth it.

                              Thanks again gentlemen.
                              "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
                              "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
                              ________Sabbath Forever, Forever Sabbath!______OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by OzzyIsDio View Post
                                1. Black Sabbath
                                2. Paranoid
                                3. Master Of Reality
                                4. Vol. 4
                                5. Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
                                6. Sabotage
                                7. Technical Ecstacy
                                8. Never Say Die
                                9. Heaven And Hell
                                10. Mob Rules
                                11. Dehumanizer
                                12. The Devil You Know
                                13. 13

                                I hope this answers your question.
                                I think that the fans of the band who enjoy the Dio era want to believe that Ozzy recognizes that era's value. IMO, Ozzy hates the era, and when he was alive he hated Ronnie. Ronnie's passing probably mitigates some of the personal animosity, but not much of the professional animosity. Ozzy wouldn't do anything that acknowledges the era being part of Black Sabbath's history.

                                After all, anything that doesn't have Ozzy, Tony, Geezer and Bill on it isn't Black Sabbath, right?
                                "But I don't want to go among mad people."
                                "Oh, you can't help that, we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
                                "How do you know I'm mad?"
                                "You must be or you wouldn't have come here."

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