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  • Originally posted by Soul Sucker View Post
    I was introduced to rock music only five years ago, so I don't have any attachment to those "classic" rock albums like many of you do. I didn't respond to your question at first because I don't really want to get into an argument over personal tastes... 'Black Ice' and 'Highway to Hell' were the first AC/DC albums I heard and I liked them both equally. When I check out a new band, I always start with their newest album and one of their classics. 'A Bigger Bang' is one of my favourite Stones albums and I prefer it to 'Exile'.

    You're not a Rush fan, so I don't think you're in any position to question my preferences in their music. Many Rush fans consider Clockwork Angels to be one of their best albums. Van Halen's 'A Different Kind of Truth' is better than every Sammy Hagar and Gary Cherone album and better than 'Diver Down' and '1984'.

    Like I said earlier, I'd rather not argue over personal tastes. I've explained myself, so let's leave it at that... One thing's for certain; we all want the new Sabbath album to be good. No one's rooting for it to be a failure. Most of us will be pleased by it - some more than others. I hope I am blown away by it and I hope that you are too.
    Excellent post. Not everyone is tethered to the original Sabbath recordings in the same way. Those of us who grew up on those albums in real time will have a different perspective than those who discovered them at a later date. Some of the original albums that many argue to be classic weren't necessarily well received upon their release; time has a way of changing opinions. Judging the new album on its own merits may yield greater listening dividends.
    Last edited by mds; 04-07-2013, 10:22 AM.

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    • Originally posted by Soul Sucker View Post

      Pick any song. That pitch perfect, robotic voice you hear? That's auto-tune (among other vocal effects).
      I don't hear a pitch perfect or robotic voice. in the studio multiple takes take place so for that reason i would not instantly assume the worst when i don't hear a "live" sounding voice warts and all. Watch the behind the scenes with slash in studio for his solo album. you hear ozzys natural voice and if you compare it to what ended up on the record, i for one do not consider this to be "auto tune". Its just the effects used now for all singers. i would bet a thousand dollars that even the great dio utilized the same technology on tdyk. He certainly double tracked a lot on it.
      Last edited by OZZYIRONMAN; 04-07-2013, 09:43 AM.

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      • Originally posted by OZZYIRONMAN View Post
        In the studio multiple takes take place so for that reason i would not instantly assume the worst when i don't hear a "live" sounding voice warts and all.
        Multiple takes don't completely change the sound of your voice. Compare Ozzy's vocals on 'Master of Reality' to his vocals on 'Black Rain'. It's clear that his vocals are enhanced in the studio. There is no natural quality to his voice on his last few solo albums. 'I Don't Wanna Stop' is a perfect example of an auto-tuned Ozzy.

        Originally posted by OZZYIRONMAN View Post
        Watch the behind the scenes with slash in studio for his solo album. you hear ozzys natural voice and if you compare it to what ended up on the record, i for one do not consider this to be "auto tune".
        What does that song have to do with 'Down to Earth', 'Black Rain' or 'Scream'? I've said many times before that Ozzy sounds great on Slash's song.

        Originally posted by OZZYIRONMAN View Post
        i would bet a thousand dollars that even the great dio utilized the same technology on tdyk. He certainly double tracked a lot on it.
        Double tracking is NOT the same as auto-tune. Ronnie's vocals on TDYK could pass as live vocals. Ozzy's vocals on Black Rain cannot. We'll know for sure what Ozzy sounds like on 13 within the next week or two when they reveal 'God Is Dead'.
        Last edited by Soul Sucker; 04-07-2013, 09:50 AM.
        Can you sleep at night, when you close your eyes
        Do you think of all the pain from your lies
        Or do you deny, you're responsible
        For the victims of the sins you devised

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        • I dont see the point in comparing a guy who's 60 to his former self at 22. I can only go by how i feel since im not an audio expert but i know i found nothing offensive on Black Rain or Scream but i liked the music on scream a lot more than Black Rain.

          Just out of curiosity, why is Soul Sucker your user name if the song sucks?
          Last edited by OZZYIRONMAN; 04-07-2013, 10:05 AM.

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          • Originally posted by mds View Post
            Excellent post.
            Thank you.

            Originally posted by OZZYIRONMAN View Post
            I dont see the point in comparing a guy who's 60 to his former self at 22.
            I'm not... I was comparing natural vocals to studio enhanced vocals.

            Originally posted by OZZYIRONMAN View Post
            Just out of curiosity, why is Soul Sucker your user name if the song sucks?
            Heh... I actually hate my username. I was excited for Scream when it was released and I thought it was a great album at the time. Now, not so much.
            Last edited by Soul Sucker; 04-07-2013, 10:22 AM.
            Can you sleep at night, when you close your eyes
            Do you think of all the pain from your lies
            Or do you deny, you're responsible
            For the victims of the sins you devised

            Comment


            • Ozzy's voice is amazing on that Slash record. I suspect that is what he will sound like on 13.
              www.downtrendmetal.com

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              • It doesn't matter how this album sounds, some people are always going to take issue with Ozzy. Presently, we are hearing about how terrible his 10 second / 6 word vocal is because it is "processed" to robotic perfection; next week someone will take issue with the fact that he is old and his voice isn't as good as it was when he was 18. How dare this senior citizen, who should be using a walker, not be everything to everyone, at all times. The man will never win, but nobody can take this away from him: he is THE original and proper Sabbath frontman. He can actually sing, and doesn't scream every word of every song. He is Ozzy. He is back. Black Sabbath cannot exist in his absence, as he is part owner of the legal entity and franchise. Time to accept facts: the planets have aligned, and this is as good as it gets. Learn to love it for what it is: an opportunity for all of us to celebrate a new album from BLACK SABBATH.
                Last edited by Now in Darkness; 04-07-2013, 11:25 AM.
                Casting his shadow, weaving his spell, funny clothes, tinkling bell.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Now in Darkness View Post
                  It doesn't matter how this album sounds, some people are always going to take issue with Ozzy. Presently, we are hearing about how terrible his 10 second / 6 word vocal is because it is "processed" to robotic perfection; next week someone will take issue with the fact that he is old and his voice isn't as good as it was when he was 18. How dare this senior citizen, who should be using a walker, not be everything to everyone, at all times. The man will never win, but nobody can take this away from him: he is THE original and proper Sabbath frontman. He can actually sing, and doesn't scream every word of every song. He is Ozzy. He is back. Black Sabbath cannot exist in his absence, as he is part owner of the legal entity and franchise. Time to accept facts: the planets have aligned, and this is as good as it gets. Learn to love it for what it is: an opportunity for all of us to celebrate a new album from BLACK SABBATH.
                  I really like what you've said. Couldn't agree more!

                  As if Gandalf really speaks about Sabbath
                  Do you hear the thunder raging in the sky?
                  Premonition of a shattered world that’s gonna die.
                  In the age of reason, how do we survive?
                  The protocols of evil ravaging so many lives?

                  Comment


                  • Might be somewhat sad, but I must've listened to that 27 second clip atleast 20 times already! And I've been churning that fantastic riff over and over with my guitar, it does have that certain Hole in the Sky feel to it (well, the first 5 notes are actually identical, aside from the key).

                    I'm getting the same vibes I got after hearing Bible Black for the first time. I was completely blown away by it, and this mere teaser has already wiped off some of my fears regarding the album...bring it on
                    "The consequence of conscience/Is that you'll be left somewhere/Swinging in the air"-Ronnie James Dio (1942-2010) R.I.P. King Of Metal
                    "Just take a look around you what do you see/Pain, suffering, and misery/It's not the way that the world was planned/It's a pity you don't understand" - Geezer Butler
                    "If god is in heaven/How can this happen here" - Phil Lynott (1949-1986)

                    Comment


                    • I don't think Ozzy's vocals sound auto-tuned. I think its just the basic effects they usually do in the studio: multi-tracking, reverb, etc. If you listen to the behind the scenes video with Rick Rubin, he doesn't sound that bad when we hear him sing "raw." I think Ozzy's vocals sound fine. And we've literally only heard a few words from him.

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                      • Originally posted by Now in Darkness View Post
                        It doesn't matter how this album sounds, some people are always going to take issue with Ozzy. Presently, we are hearing about how terrible his 10 second / 6 word vocal is because it is "processed" to robotic perfection; next week someone will take issue with the fact that he is old and his voice isn't as good as it was when he was 18. How dare this senior citizen, who should be using a walker, not be everything to everyone, at all times. The man will never win, but nobody can take this away from him: he is THE original and proper Sabbath frontman. He can actually sing, and doesn't scream every word of every song. He is Ozzy. He is back. Black Sabbath cannot exist in his absence, as he is part owner of the legal entity and franchise. Time to accept facts: the planets have aligned, and this is as good as it gets. Learn to love it for what it is: an opportunity for all of us to celebrate a new album from BLACK SABBATH.
                        I kneel down and bow my head in the dust for thee, master
                        95% of everything i say is pure bullshit just for the fun of it. The other 95% is damn serious!
                        Til įrs ok frišar ok forn sišr

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Now in Darkness View Post
                          Why is everyone so obsessed with Ozzy's voice being processed? Its nothing that hasn't been done thousands of times before with other artists. As the original Sabbath front man, it is great to have Ozzy back, and it will be great to hear a voice that isn't yelling all the time. Ozzy's sinister vibe is THE qunitessential Sabbath sound.

                          Maybe we should jump on Tony for using effects on his guitar.

                          It seems that people are bound and determined to apply subjectivity to a 27 second sound clip, just to make a point that coincides with their preferences. I am an Ozzy fan, and I am stoked, but I have heard far too little to say anything more than it sounds promising. I must be missing something if so many people have decided it is crap, and that a 65 year old man has no excuse for not sounding like an 18 year old still. Stand behind your convictions, and put them out for all to hear, and stop blaming Ozzy and whoever else for all the ills that you believe have befallen "13". Goodness me, it could be worse, he could be Sting for crying out loud.
                          I just had to jump on this, that is a bad way to defend excessive vocal fx Vocals and guitars can't be compared really, two very different instruments. One is natural by and fully created by human, the other is a fully amplified, electric signal.

                          And guitar effects aren't used to cover mistakes in the playing (unless we speak about ridiculous amounts of gain, delay etc.). And no one has criticized using basic fx on vocals, such as delay, reverb or chorus. But using melodyne, autotune or double tracking every single vocal line is a sign of trying to mask mistakes/impurities in Ozzy's vocals. Double tracking is usually used only in some parts to bring out a certain vocal phrase, make it sound thicker, to add a cool effect or create the illusion of a song "gearing up" in the chorus for an example.

                          I think it sounds unnatural when a whole vocal track is double tracked. Guitar tracks are usually double tracked to create that "wall of sound". I think there's no need to do that with vocals.
                          "The consequence of conscience/Is that you'll be left somewhere/Swinging in the air"-Ronnie James Dio (1942-2010) R.I.P. King Of Metal
                          "Just take a look around you what do you see/Pain, suffering, and misery/It's not the way that the world was planned/It's a pity you don't understand" - Geezer Butler
                          "If god is in heaven/How can this happen here" - Phil Lynott (1949-1986)

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by -E5150 StarWanderer- View Post
                            I just had to jump on this, that is a bad way to defend excessive vocal fx Vocals and guitars can't be compared really, two very different instruments. One is natural by and fully created by human, the other is a fully amplified, electric signal.

                            And guitar effects aren't used to cover mistakes in the playing (unless we speak about ridiculous amounts of gain, delay etc.). And no one has criticized using basic fx on vocals, such as delay, reverb or chorus. But using melodyne, autotune or double tracking every single vocal line is a sign of trying to mask mistakes/impurities in Ozzy's vocals. Double tracking is usually used only in some parts to bring out a certain vocal phrase, make it sound thicker, to add a cool effect or create the illusion of a song "gearing up" in the chorus for an example.

                            I think it sounds unnatural when a whole vocal track is double tracked. Guitar tracks are usually double tracked to create that "wall of sound". I think there's no need to do that with vocals.
                            Unfortunately, you missed my point. I agree, it is a bad comparison: THAT was the whole point I was trying to make. It would be preposterous to critique Tony's use of guitar effects, as it is to critique a 6 word vocal excerpt from Ozzy, without hearing more.

                            I get your point, and I agree.
                            Last edited by Now in Darkness; 04-07-2013, 09:25 PM.
                            Casting his shadow, weaving his spell, funny clothes, tinkling bell.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Now in Darkness View Post
                              It doesn't matter how this album sounds, some people are always going to take issue with Ozzy. Presently, we are hearing about how terrible his 10 second / 6 word vocal is because it is "processed" to robotic perfection; next week someone will take issue with the fact that he is old and his voice isn't as good as it was when he was 18. How dare this senior citizen, who should be using a walker, not be everything to everyone, at all times. The man will never win, but nobody can take this away from him: he is THE original and proper Sabbath frontman. He can actually sing, and doesn't scream every word of every song. He is Ozzy. He is back. Black Sabbath cannot exist in his absence, as he is part owner of the legal entity and franchise. Time to accept facts: the planets have aligned, and this is as good as it gets. Learn to love it for what it is: an opportunity for all of us to celebrate a new album from BLACK SABBATH.
                              My feelings exactly Now In Darkness, I couldn't have said it better myself. Ozzy was lost, but now he is found, he is back where he belongs, he has found his way home.
                              "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
                              "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
                              ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Now in Darkness View Post
                                It doesn't matter how this album sounds, some people are always going to take issue with Ozzy. Presently, we are hearing about how terrible his 10 second / 6 word vocal is because it is "processed" to robotic perfection; next week someone will take issue with the fact that he is old and his voice isn't as good as it was when he was 18. How dare this senior citizen, who should be using a walker, not be everything to everyone, at all times. The man will never win, but nobody can take this away from him: he is THE original and proper Sabbath frontman. He can actually sing, and doesn't scream every word of every song. He is Ozzy. He is back. Black Sabbath cannot exist in his absence, as he is part owner of the legal entity and franchise. Time to accept facts: the planets have aligned, and this is as good as it gets. Learn to love it for what it is: an opportunity for all of us to celebrate a new album from BLACK SABBATH.
                                Agreed .

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