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  • Originally posted by Now in Darkness View Post
    It doesn't matter how this album sounds, some people are always going to take issue with Ozzy.
    The vocal fx discussion isn't about slagging Ozzy in any way. None of the issues that I've brought up has had anything to do with Ozzy directly. It's all about him getting the treatment he deserves, and according to me (among others) auto-tune doesn't contribute to what Black Sabbath is all about. Heck, the auto-tune effect doesn't contribute to any classic rock singer IMHO. Another example of this would be Glenn Hughes, who's been getting the auto-tune treatment here and there with Black Country Communion.

    I went into great detail about vocal effects earlier on in this thread. Maybe it was too long and boring, because it seems like the confusion of what this is all about is still around. If you haven't read my post, you can find it here. Seems like there are a couple of pro sound engineers around here, and it would be really interesting to get some feedback from them on that post since some of them think that I'm getting things wrong. I do suspect that they've missed it, but I'd love to hear what kind of things that I'm wrong about (that includes an explanation of how to get that kind of vocal sound without using auto-tune or pitch correction.)

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    • Look at the youtube clip comments. Mostly positive to super psyched

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      • Is it me or does the vocal melody in that clip sound like "Scary Dreams"?

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        • Originally posted by Halkbi View Post
          The vocal fx discussion isn't about slagging Ozzy in any way. None of the issues that I've brought up has had anything to do with Ozzy directly. It's all about him getting the treatment he deserves, and according to me (among others) auto-tune doesn't contribute to what Black Sabbath is all about. Heck, the auto-tune effect doesn't contribute to any classic rock singer IMHO. Another example of this would be Glenn Hughes, who's been getting the auto-tune treatment here and there with Black Country Communion.

          I went into great detail about vocal effects earlier on in this thread. Maybe it was too long and boring, because it seems like the confusion of what this is all about is still around. If you haven't read my post, you can find it here. Seems like there are a couple of pro sound engineers around here, and it would be really interesting to get some feedback from them on that post since some of them think that I'm getting things wrong. I do suspect that they've missed it, but I'd love to hear what kind of things that I'm wrong about (that includes an explanation of how to get that kind of vocal sound without using auto-tune or pitch correction.)
          I'll say it again, as I did a page back, my comments have nothing to do with you, or your insight. You explained something, based on your opinion, and there is distinct objectivity in your statements; other people, not so much. And as I said before, there are some amazing people around here that can make broadsweeping pronouncements about an entire album based on a 6 word / 10 second audio clip. I'm not saying they are wrong; in fact, they may be entirely right. What I am saying is that I could never feel objective about jumping to such conclusions, based on so little evidence. I prefer to look at this from a bigger perspective, and not pick Ozzy, and this album to death, before I have given it a chance. No matter what happens, I am going to consider myself the luckiest Sabbath fan in the world....auto-tune and all.

          I actually feel some degree of sympathy for people who have lost the ability to FEEL, in favor of being technical analysts. I hope that I never have the desire to drill down that deep into music. I guess, in some ways, ignorance is bliss, and that is why guys like Rick Rubin exist, because they still FEEL. Again, and I stress, I am not saying others are wrong, I am saying that I am excited notwithstanding the treatments that may have been applied to Ozzy's voice, and I will judge the final product once I have heard it in its entirety. I just cannot bring myself to sully this very special time; this may be my last chance to hear a new Sabbath album, with Ozzy, or without, and I am going to soak in every moment. If I can bring even one person along with me, then I'll be happy. As fans, we should all be looking for the good in this project.

          It is also interesting to note that I don't think that I have read two opinions that are the same from the Ozzy / auto-tune pundits. Some say yes; some say no; others say maybe; others say reverb. That speaks to a lot of speculation, and very little expertise. Personally, I honestly don't know, or care. I listened to the clip, noticed my foot was tapping on the ground, and I was optimistic about the future. I may be simple, but that's how I assess music, and I do not think that it is a foregone conclusion that music must be bad if the vocals have been treated on some level. Two seemingly knowledgable people commented below, and it's hard to know what to think, but the vocal effects can't be that bad if people can't agree if they are even there:

          Originally posted by Halkbi View Post
          To my ears, the vocal track of the latest snippet has autotune, some kind of artificial doubling effect (basically a delay that artificially mimicks the characteristics of double tracking, popularized by John Lennon in the 60's and something that's been a part of Ozzys vocal sound since Blizzard of Ozz), some kind of chorus or other modulation effect (also something that Lennon achieved by using a tape machine for the doubling effect) and then the bread and butter effects like EQ, compression and reverb.

          Originally posted by Fabiano75 View Post
          I've been working with audio for 20 years.
          Some people talk about the autotune or Melodyne on Ozzy's voice.
          I apologize, but most people don't know how this software works.
          If the engineer is qualified, and Melodyne is used with the function of pitch correction, it is impossible to hear any change.
          So, if you're hearing the voice of Ozzy, and say it is with auto tune or Melodyne, you don't know what you're talking about, or just trying to be annoying.
          LouisSt, Billy, OID, and Zephead:
          Last edited by Now in Darkness; 04-07-2013, 10:23 PM.
          Casting his shadow, weaving his spell, funny clothes, tinkling bell.

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          • A tad off topic but... Anyone that saw Ozzy on the Scream Tour may have noticed that Keyboardist Adam Wakeman picked up his guitar or several songs and played rhythm behind Gus G. on songs that didn't require Keyboards.

            Well he has been tweeting about Sabbath Rehearsals and it apprears that he is gonna do the same thing for Tony on this upcoming tour. On songs that don't require Keyboards Tony will have a rhythm guitar player on stage. Kind of a wild thought. But it will sound great. He really sounded good on those songs during the Scream tour.
            www.downtrendmetal.com

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            • Originally posted by turch118 View Post
              Is it me or does the vocal melody in that clip sound like "Scary Dreams"?
              Yes i can hear that a bit

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              • I can hear that!

                speaking of Scary Dreams does anyone have a quality MP3 of that they could send me?
                www.downtrendmetal.com

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                • Originally posted by turch118 View Post
                  Is it me or does the vocal melody in that clip sound like "Scary Dreams"?
                  I'm sure about that.

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                  • So do we know for sure yet how many tracks will be on the album itself?

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                    • Originally posted by axeman_12656 View Post
                      I can hear that!

                      speaking of Scary Dreams does anyone have a quality MP3 of that they could send me?
                      Theres a soundboard of it going around. I haven't heard it but i was told its great.

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                      • Originally posted by -E5150 StarWanderer- View Post
                        Double tracking is usually used only in some parts to bring out a certain vocal phrase, make it sound thicker, to add a cool effect or create the illusion of a song "gearing up" in the chorus for an example.

                        I think it sounds unnatural when a whole vocal track is double tracked. Guitar tracks are usually double tracked to create that "wall of sound". I think there's no need to do that with vocals.
                        Ozzy has been completely doubling all of his vocal tracks since the debut Black Sabbath record. It is something he picked up from Lennon so this isn't anything new in regards to his latter day vocals and his vocals on 13.
                        Religion won't save me
                        The damage is done
                        The future has ended
                        Before it's begun
                        - Damaged Soul - Black Sabbath

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                        • Originally posted by Ron Paul View Post

                          Pronouncing as some do that this will be great at this stage would show the greatest lack of objectivity.
                          It's rock 'n' roll. What the hell does objectivity have to do with it?
                          gadji beri bimba glandridi laula lonni cadori - Ball

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                          • Originally posted by Ron Paul View Post
                            Pronouncing as some do that this will be great at this stage would show the greatest lack of objectivity.
                            Funnily enough, I don't personally recall anyone saying that "it will be great". I remember people (myself included) being excited about the new album, and a few people picking this album apart before any of it was heard, and even more after a 10 second vocal was released. I will reserve judgement until I hear the album. Getting a new album from Black Sabbath will be GREAT, and so far I am optimistic.

                            Originally posted by Ron Paul View Post
                            Using analysis but not deep analysis.
                            It's unfortunate that so many experts and analysts can't agree on whether auto-tune was used or not. I agree with you, so far the overall technical analysis of a 10 second vocal excerpt has not been very deep (or meaningful) at all.
                            Last edited by Now in Darkness; 04-07-2013, 08:04 PM.
                            Casting his shadow, weaving his spell, funny clothes, tinkling bell.

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                            • Originally posted by Ron Paul View Post
                              That's not at all what I said, but your use of sarcasm has been noted.

                              And a few people did say it would be great.
                              Maybe I misunderstood your post then. It was very cryptic, and a bit hard to follow. I thought I was responding in kind, although my opinions are essentially unchanged from what I have been saying before. Apologies if I misunderstood your post.
                              Last edited by Now in Darkness; 04-07-2013, 09:49 PM.
                              Casting his shadow, weaving his spell, funny clothes, tinkling bell.

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                              • Originally posted by Ron Paul View Post
                                That comes precisely from the ability to feel. Using analysis but not deep analysis. Pronouncing as some do that this will be great at this stage would show the greatest lack of objectivity. You don't look to the release of a future product to forecast trends. Or to be correct on those trends, otherwise many people would be out of a job.
                                Just the fact that Black Sabbath is releasing a new album with Ozzy fronting the band, the way it should be, is great in itself, and yes the album will be great, I have that much faith in Tony, Geezer and Ozzy-Black Sabbath.

                                Hell auto-tune or no auto-tune if it sounds good and Sabbathy, and by the likes of that 27 second snippet it did, I could care a less.

                                I am just so grateful Black Sabbath is releasing an album with the original frontman, I never thought I'd see it this late in their life, especially what Tony Iommi has gone and is going through with cancer. I am just so very grateful as I was when Ronnie James Dio released The Devil You Know with Sabbath, God rest his soul, he gave that to us, the same as Ozzy, Tony and Geezer is giving us this album after 35 years.

                                And for that I am very grateful, and know deep down in my heart it will be great, if only for the simple fact that they thought of us fans to give us that.
                                "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
                                "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
                                ________Sabbath Forever, Forever Sabbath!______OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

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