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  • #16
    Originally posted by OzzyIsDio View Post
    The peace movement was a bunch of bullshit, I'm glad Sabbath saw through it.
    Ya, peace is highly overrated. Death and destruction, now them's good times all 'round. What about the lyrics of Crazy Train OID?

    And those damn peaceful Beatles too.

    Ironically, Sabbath were very much about peace, but instead of framing it in LOVE, they framed it from the perspective of the horrors that were happening in the world, and the need to shine the light on what they saw as evil injustice. They did not see through the peace movement; they honored it in a different and gritty way, and they did not advocate in favor of violence, war, or hatred.

    "Evil minds that plot destruction; sorcerers of death's construction." (War Pigs)

    "Children of tomorrow live in the tears that fall today; will the sunrise of tomorrow bring PEACE in any way?" (Children of the Grave)

    "LOVE upon a land, a world unknown, where the sons of freedom make their home. Leave the earth to Satan and his slaves." (Into the Void)

    "If they knew you believe in God above, they should realize before they criticize, that God is the only way to LOVE." (After Forever)


    It's hard to find a HM / rock band that advocates for peace more than Sabbath. They just did it with a lot of bass and riffing.


    Peace brother!
    Last edited by Now in Darkness; 11-01-2013, 07:43 PM.
    Casting his shadow, weaving his spell, funny clothes, tinkling bell.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Now in Darkness View Post
      Ya, peace is highly overrated. Death and destruction, now them's good times all 'round. What about the lyrics of Crazy Train OID?

      And those damn peaceful Beatles too.

      Ironically, Sabbath were very much about peace, but instead of framing it in LOVE, they framed it from the perspective of the horrors that were happening in the world, and the need to shine the light on what they saw as evil injustice. They did not see through the peace movement; they honored it in a different and gritty way, and they did not advocate in favor of violence, war, or hatred.

      "Evil minds that plot destruction; sorcerers of death's construction."

      Peace brother!
      Good post nid!, sabbath very much are about peace and the hippy movement but replaced the flowers with middle fingers to stick to the man.

      Edidting - when sabbath reference satan I'm pretty sure they are talking about the evil stuff that man does for greed etc, not a red dude with pointy horns lol.

      More edititing - listen to lyrics of under the sun
      Last edited by Spiralarchitectx1; 11-01-2013, 07:53 PM.
      Vote leave if u want totally cool either way

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Spiralarchitectx1 View Post
        Good post nid!, sabbath very much are about peace and the hippy movement but replaced the flowers with middle fingers to stick to the man.

        Edidting - when sabbath reference satan I'm pretty sure they are talking about the evil stuff that man does for greed etc, not a red dude with pointy horns lol.
        Precisely. Geezer is the ultimate peace-nick.
        Casting his shadow, weaving his spell, funny clothes, tinkling bell.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Now in Darkness View Post
          Precisely. Geezer is the ultimate peace-nick.
          He's the ultimate peace loving hippy!, and one of the best rock lyric writers I've ever heard,

          You sure it was love's an illusion cause I'm sure he sings was an illusion!!

          As for original question it's ... I don't even believe in peace.. I think
          Last edited by Spiralarchitectx1; 11-01-2013, 07:45 PM.
          Vote leave if u want totally cool either way

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Spiralarchitectx1 View Post
            He's the ultimate peace loving hippy!, and one of the best rock lyric writers I've ever heard,

            You sure it was love's an illusion cause I'm sure he sings was an illusion!!
            Yes, and a vegan, and he runs an animal care shelter with his wife, and all that sorta Geezer stuff.

            No, I'm not sure about Love's an Illusion. I was just trying to make sense of it, and have substituted that lyric in my mind when I listen to that song.
            Casting his shadow, weaving his spell, funny clothes, tinkling bell.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Now in Darkness View Post
              Ya, peace is highly overrated. Death and destruction, now them's good times all 'round. What about the lyrics of Crazy Train OID?

              And those damn peaceful Beatles too.

              Ironically, Sabbath were very much about peace, but instead of framing it in LOVE, they framed it from the perspective of the horrors that were happening in the world, and the need to shine the light on what they saw as evil injustice. They did not see through the peace movement; they honored it in a different and gritty way, and they did not advocate in favor of violence, war, or hatred.

              "Evil minds that plot destruction; sorcerers of death's construction." (War Pigs)

              "Children of tomorrow live in the tears that fall today; will the sunrise of tomorrow bring PEACE in any way?" (Children of the Grave)

              "LOVE upon a land, a world unknown, where the sons of freedom make their home. Leave the earth to Satan and his slaves." (Into the Void)

              "If they knew you believe in God above, they should realize before they criticize, that God is the only way to LOVE." (After Forever)


              It's hard to find a HM / rock band that advocates for peace more than Sabbath. They just did it with a lot of bass and riffing.


              Peace brother!
              I didn't mean it in those terms NID, of course I prefer peace.
              "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
              "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
              ________Sabbath Forever, Forever Sabbath!______OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

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              • #22
                Originally posted by OzzyIsDio View Post
                I didn't mean it in those terms NID, of course I prefer peace.
                Trust me, there was never a doubt in my mind. I just wanted to right the ship on this, as these values are what make Sabbath palatable to many of the people who have seen the depth and breadth beneath the Sabbath thunder. I have always admired their stance on issues. If there is a peaceable person on this forum, it is you OID.

                Buuuuutttt.........I still can't really understand what you were trying to say though, if not for the obvious???
                Last edited by Now in Darkness; 11-01-2013, 08:49 PM.
                Casting his shadow, weaving his spell, funny clothes, tinkling bell.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Now in Darkness View Post
                  Trust me, there was never a doubt in my mind. I just wanted to right the ship on this, as these values are what make Sabbath palatable to many of the people who have seen the depth and breadth beneath the Sabbath thunder. I have always admired their stance on issues. If there is a peaceable person on this forum, it is you OID.

                  Buuuuutttt.........I still can't really understand what you were trying to say though, if not for the obvious???
                  What I meant was the peace movement, "the flower power movement" was in a way sugar coating what really was going on, with all the love and peace signs.

                  I remember watching one of my Ozzy videos I have, I think it was "Don't Blame Me" where Ozzy says when Sabbath got their first gig here in the U.S. he remembered people telling him, "if you're going to San Francisco, be sure to wear a flower in your hair" and Ozzy said "a flower in my hair? I haven't even got shoes to put on my feet, never mind a flower in my hair" with all the death and destruction and wars going on, how the hell can these people be preaching love and flower power, when the horrors of war were real, and people were dying.

                  So instead of bullshit love songs and all the hippy dippy bullshit, they sang about the reality of war, death and destruction, and what would happen if we didn't change our ways, and the importance of religion, hence the songs, War Pigs, Children Of The Grave, After Forever, Electric Funeral, Into The Void, Wicked World and so forth.

                  That was real, not let's love one another have sex and get high and hold up a few peace signs and everything will be alright, and wars will be done with if we wear flowers.

                  Sabbath spoke about the horrors of war, and their outcome if we don't change our ways, if our governments don't change policy, they did it in music that was brutal and hit you hard, not some kiss on the cheek and let's hold hands across America and sing Kumbaya My Lord, and everything will be over.

                  This is what I meant NID, I hope I cleared things up.
                  "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
                  "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
                  ________Sabbath Forever, Forever Sabbath!______OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by OzzyIsDio View Post
                    What I meant was the peace movement, "the flower power movement" was in a way sugar coating what really was going on, with all the love and peace signs.

                    I remember watching one of my Ozzy videos I have, I think it was "Don't Blame Me" where Ozzy says when Sabbath got their first gig here in the U.S. he remembered people telling him, "if you're going to San Francisco, be sure to wear a flower in your hair" and Ozzy said "a flower in my hair? I haven't even got shoes to put on my feet, never mind a flower in my hair" with all the death and destruction and wars going on, how the hell can these people be preaching love and flower power, when the horrors of war were real, and people were dying.

                    So instead of bullshit love songs and all the hippy dippy bullshit, they sang about the reality of war, death and destruction, and what would happen if we didn't change our ways, and the importance of religion, hence the songs, War Pigs, Children Of The Grave, After Forever, Electric Funeral, Into The Void, Wicked World and so forth.

                    That was real, not let's love one another have sex and get high and hold up a few peace signs and everything will be alright, and wars will be done with if we wear flowers.

                    Sabbath spoke about the horrors of war, and their outcome if we don't change our ways, if our governments don't change policy, they did it in music that was brutal and hit you hard, not some kiss on the cheek and let's hold hands across America and sing Kumbaya My Lord, and everything will be over.

                    This is what I meant NID, I hope I cleared things up.
                    I see. Well, we are on the same page then OID. But, I am not quite as quick to dismiss the Flower Power era. There was a lot of amazing music that came out of San Francisco peace movement in those days (and England), such as the Grateful Dead, and Jefferson Airplane, to name a few. Also, there is more than one way to skin a cat, and the youth of the day were making a statement in the way that they could. They did change the world, make no mistake about it. Woodstock, the single most significant concert in the modern world, was founded on the peace movement of the day. The bottom line is that most people were working toward the same goal: some expressed it through Peace and Love, and others through statements of their discontent (Doors, Black Sabbath, Pink Floyd (Corporal Clegg), etc). It was a multi-faceted approach toward the same objective, and it was all about rebelling against the perceived atrocities that were occurring at the time, and the perception that nothing was learned from WW II. War Pig's lyrics did not accomplish any more than the Beatles All You Need is Love lyrics; they were both influential in their own way, and to their own crowd. It is partly because of those approaches that we have not had a WW III, and that black kids and white kids can go to the same school, and ride on the same bus, and use the same washroom. We have lots to improve upon, but change comes from the people.

                    The Ozzy story sounds like BS to my ear, seeing as how his words, as described above, are clearly just quoting the Phillips et al lyrics of the song San Francisco: "If you go to San Francisco, be sure to wear some flowers in your hair. If you go to San Francisco, you're going to meet a lot of gentle people there." Its very coincidental that Ozzy supposedly had an experience that mirrored these song lyrics, but ya never know. He is Ozzy after all.

                    Its all good brother. To each their own. Peace OID!!!!
                    Last edited by Now in Darkness; 11-02-2013, 10:24 AM.
                    Casting his shadow, weaving his spell, funny clothes, tinkling bell.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Now in Darkness View Post
                      Its all good brother. To each their own. Peace OID!!!!
                      Progress isn't always good NID, but yes, to each their own, have a good weekend NID.
                      "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
                      "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
                      ________Sabbath Forever, Forever Sabbath!______OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by OzzyIsDio View Post
                        Progress isn't always good NID, but yes, to each their own, have a good weekend NID.
                        Very true; not all progress is good. You have a good weekend too bud!
                        Last edited by Now in Darkness; 11-02-2013, 10:32 AM.
                        Casting his shadow, weaving his spell, funny clothes, tinkling bell.

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                        • #27
                          I don't know what Geezer's motives were but I've always identified with that lyric's cynicism. It's kind of an "I don't trust anybody" vibe - which is the thrust of the entire song. He probably saw as much hypocrisy in the peace movement as in any other. I'm just guessing though. I certainly don't mean to come off as "anti-peace". As a Libertarian, that is the farthest thing from MY reality.
                          In the fields the bodies burning, as the war machine keeps turning.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by WallOfSleep View Post
                            I don't know what Geezer's motives were but I've always identified with that lyric's cynicism. It's kind of an "I don't trust anybody" vibe - which is the thrust of the entire song. He probably saw as much hypocrisy in the peace movement as in any other. I'm just guessing though. I certainly don't mean to come off as "anti-peace". As a Libertarian, that is the farthest thing from MY reality.
                            Hmmm, interesting thought. Its possible, but I don't really see that reflected in the lyrics, especially around the MOR era, when he was wearing man dresses and stuff. Will have to dig into the lyrics more to see if I see cynicism toward the peace movement. Nothing comes to mind. I do see lots of cynicism toward every other aspect of the establishment though. Geezer seemed to rail against hypocrisy, even to this day, with Dear Father.
                            Last edited by Now in Darkness; 11-02-2013, 12:31 PM.
                            Casting his shadow, weaving his spell, funny clothes, tinkling bell.

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                            • #29
                              I'm glad I found a bunch of people who are as passionate about Sabbath on a conceptual and intellectual level. I'm glad I'm not alone. Rick Rubin said in an interview that Sabbath could be enjoyed both at a 'high' and a 'low' level, and I agree with that.
                              http://www.youtube.com/user/TheSterlingSound

                              Super animation, turning on a nation
                              And they’re saying all moving parts stand still

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                              • #30
                                "I tell you to end your life... I wish I could but it's too late..!" -

                                "Scuse me while I kiss this guy!"
                                "Music is so sacred to me that I can’t hear wishy-washy nonsense just played for the sake of selling records."
                                R. Blackmore

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