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  • Originally posted by turch118 View Post
    First of all let me apologize to William for calling him a troll, that was uncalled for. let's end this senseless battle.
    Thank you for saying that, apology accepted, and I'm sorry for my over-the-top response to you. It's merely a matter of once you're a Ninja, you forget how to not Ninja.

    Comment


    • I like the guest rap by Snoop Dog on "Delusion and Denial" though a lot of people think it's misplaced. You gotta take chances sometimes.


      Seriously, that's pretty inappropriate. I would kindly invite you to remove that post, it's disrespectful to Billy and to all of us who believe in human dignity.

      Don't do it for me, don't do it for him...do it for yourself. Be of a higher mind.

      Thank you.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by William_the_Bloody View Post
        I like the guest rap by Snoop Dog on "Delusion and Denial" though a lot of people think it's misplaced. You gotta take chances sometimes.
        Ofcourse inspired by The Illusion Of Power, and damn, did we smoke some serious amounts of Ganja during the recording.


        Originally posted by William_the_Bloody View Post
        Seriously, that's pretty inappropriate. I would kindly invite you to remove that post, it's disrespectful to Billy and to all of us who believe in human dignity.

        Don't do it for me, don't do it for him...do it for yourself. Be of a higher mind.

        Thank you.
        You're talking to him as if he's actually able to use his mind in a constructive way. A waste of time. And i couldn't care less, the only thing he achieve is making a fool of himself. Again...
        95% of everything i say is pure bullshit just for the fun of it. The other 95% is damn serious!
        Til įrs ok frišar ok forn sišr

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Billy Underdog View Post
          Ofcourse inspired by The Illusion Of Power, and damn, did we smoke some serious amounts of Ganja during the recording.




          You're talking to him as if he's actually able to use his mind in a constructive way. A waste of time. And i couldn't care less, the only thing he achieve is making a fool of himself. Again...
          Of course he is. Now, about that tooth...

          Comment


          • Been busy in recent days and had a lot of "catching up" here.

            It's always somewhat perplexing to me how people with a confessed lack of in-depth knowledge on a topic will still stride forward with a false narrative that is easily disproved.

            Perhaps even more bizarre is that I've actually come to believe we have a number of people who contribute to this forum where apparently this is the "end all" of their Sabbath knowledge.

            Other fan sites? "Nope." Facebook fan groups with thousands of old photos? "Eh?" Old magazine interviews? "Huh?" Bootlegs? "No clue. I think I have one ..."

            This stuff isn't down to a single factor. First of all, let's forget the modern day and videos like the one for "The End Of The Beginning." Okay? Let's go back to BEFORE things were as "canned" as they are today.

            I don't understand how anyone so committed to a band as to be on a fan forum could be so uneducated about said band. You can read Rolling Stone articles from the early 70s where they are asking girls at Sabbath concerts what the appeal of the music is. You can look at any of thousands of photos from the 70s on dedicated Sabbath fan pages via Facebook. You can listen to audience recordings made from the front of halls, back of halls ... there is SIMPLY NO EVIDENCE to support the notion that 70s Sabbath were exclusively a "guy's band."

            FTR, the notion that Don Kirshner's Rock Concert or Sabbath could have given two shits about who forced their way up front at the Santa Monica Civic in 1975 when they were filmed is when we have to all take inventory of just how far it's reasonable to stretch one's pants to fit into a personalized little narrative.

            At the beginning of this thread, I posted a picture from Sabbath's concert in Tuscon, AZ on March 16, '72. Totally random black and white shot of Tony and Ozzy in concert taken from behind stage left. The front row has chicks. Because Sabbath appealed to some chicks. Any band who was playing the arenas they were was going to draw some females, folks. The "guy's band" narrative should be attached first to certain Punk bands and Thrash bands where in a sea of 500 people it might be hard to find a single girl.

            Don't like video? It was never my intention to refer only to video. Black Sabbath live in the 70s happens to be one of my most treasured musical experiences, so I have a lot of shows. As I've said, there are shows recorded from the audience that have screaming women. They weren't The Beatles. They weren't Rod Stewart. That isn't the point. The point is that they were never Black Flag either.
            "It is not opinion that Ozzy peaked on Sabotage, it is a measurable fact."
            -WTB

            Comment


            • Giant sigh....still exhaling....still...

              Jeff: I'm not saying there aren't female Black Sabbath fans. I'm saying I haven't met any that are what *I* would call legitimate fans. I have ZERO DOUBT whatsoever that there were a legion of hangers-on in the 70's when Black Sabbath was new and fresh. I came of age in the 80's, and Black Sabbath was female repellant. They just were, and that's what *I* lived through. Black Sabbath had a resurgence in the 90's and a lot of young girls latched on once again while the fun train was blowing through town.

              You showing up and dragging this all out again after we have all finally settled down just forces me back into a defensive position again. Why? Because you didn't read what I *actually* wrote and said.

              So here I am again. How many rounds do you want to do on this?

              I mean it's really this simple: If you can't name ONE song on Sabotage, you aren't a Black Sabbath fan. Period. I've never met one female that can name one track off of Sabotage. I'm glad you've had a different experience.

              And yes, when people are filming ANYTHING in public, they will try to move good looking women into the frame. It's film-making 101. You can say "They probably didn't do that; they didn't care" but you are doing the same thing I would be doing...speculating to fit your own narrative.

              Bloody hell, this is exhausting and annoying.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by William_the_Bloody View Post
                Now, about that tooth...
                I was at this very small fishing festival (of all things), only because it's held at a place alot of my friends come from, tent festivals are always fun, they arranged a small stage concert with a handful of bands, one being themselves having an impromptu cover band with me joining on vocals for R.A.T.M.s Bullet In The Head, and (at that time) it was always great with any excuses to party.

                Later on the night, last thing i remember is this drunken-to-stupidity guy angry about having lost his cap asking if i had it. I probably answered something stupid and provoking, being the drunken brat i was at the time. Next thing i wake up in the security office asking "what happened?".
                Then back to camp to disinfect the wound with Vodka.
                The pick is taken the morning after...

                Not an unusual scenario at a party in the boondocks of Norway. Been hit alot of times, even beaten severely, only hit once myself in self defence in an alot more serious situation...
                95% of everything i say is pure bullshit just for the fun of it. The other 95% is damn serious!
                Til įrs ok frišar ok forn sišr

                Comment


                • Like Jeff, I was away for a while and I'm catching up.

                  The scene is Richardson, Texas, early 1982. I'm 13, going on 14, and have already purchased all the Led Zeppelin albums, most of Deep Purple's and am starting to acquire Black Sabbath. Mob Rules had just dropped, and I was wanting to know if it was any good. I was talking about it at school, 8th grade, and this girl I've known since I moved into the neighborhood in the 5th grade says she's got a copy and will let me borrow it. DUDE. That was totally awesome of her and, turns out, she also had all the Ozzy stuff and, yes, was totally into Sabotage as much as I was.

                  A year and a half later, it's the start of 10th grade and my first year of high school (they did 10-12 at my HS back then) and I'm in Chemistry class, 5th period. This crazy chick with hair metal hair and an Ozzy concert jersey sits next to me and notices I've already started to write rock band names on my book cover. Right away she smiles and know she's sitting next to the right guy, 'coz I've got Zep, Purple, Sabbath, Grand Funk, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Uriah Heep, and all them bands written all over my cover. The teacher would go back to the chem workroom a lot - when she did, we'd start playing air guitar and singing out together to "Mob Rules", "Sweet Home Alabama" and, yes, "Megalomania", although we'd start at the end portion because riffs, dude, riffs.

                  Nothing romantic with either of those two young ladies. Their love of Sabbath and metal/heavy rock in general was real, not some feigned way to reel in a boyfriend.

                  Fast forward to 1986, September. A young lady at The University of Texas at Austin fakes liking Risk enough to get to sit next to me, but her love of the metal was real. I wasn't yet into Metallica or Iron Maiden because I wondered if they'd be too hard for my taste. Well, she turned me on to both those bands and then we tried out The Cult, Guns 'n' Roses, Megadeth, and a lot of other bands together. She bought me Mountain's "The Road Goes on Forever" for my 19th birthday. We played Fastway's first album so much on road trips, the whole album is practically "our song". She liked Sabbath for genuine reasons, all the right reasons. We've been married now, had our 30th anniversary last year.

                  Point being, while the Sabs were no teenybopper-drawing band like Bon Jovi or New Kids on the Block, they certainly had a strong contingent of fans among the ladies, and they were just as true and dedicated as any others.

                  Currently, there are a LOT of stoner bands with a heavy Sabbath influence in their sound that have women filling in various roles on vox or instruments. I'd count them as truefans, as well. Going back to the OP of the thread, looks like I'm in agreement with Jeff's observations, even if my evidence is just anecdotal.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by William_the_Bloody View Post
                    Giant sigh....still exhaling....still...

                    Jeff: I'm not saying there aren't female Black Sabbath fans. I'm saying I haven't met any that are what *I* would call legitimate fans. I have ZERO DOUBT whatsoever that there were a legion of hangers-on in the 70's when Black Sabbath was new and fresh. I came of age in the 80's, and Black Sabbath was female repellant. They just were, and that's what *I* lived through. Black Sabbath had a resurgence in the 90's and a lot of young girls latched on once again while the fun train was blowing through town.

                    You showing up and dragging this all out again after we have all finally settled down just forces me back into a defensive position again. Why? Because you didn't read what I *actually* wrote and said.

                    So here I am again. How many rounds do you want to do on this?

                    I mean it's really this simple: If you can't name ONE song on Sabotage, you aren't a Black Sabbath fan. Period. I've never met one female that can name one track off of Sabotage. I'm glad you've had a different experience.

                    And yes, when people are filming ANYTHING in public, they will try to move good looking women into the frame. It's film-making 101. You can say "They probably didn't do that; they didn't care" but you are doing the same thing I would be doing...speculating to fit your own narrative.

                    Bloody hell, this is exhausting and annoying.
                    William: I, for one, am certainly fine if you wish to have a conversation about what defines a female Black Sabbath fan. For you, the ability to name a song from Sabotage seems to be highly valued. Nothing wrong with that.

                    But this would seem to be a different thread. This thread which I started and I thought attempted to define was about the oft-repeated exaggeration that Sabbath were a guy's band. Bikers, spikes, leather-clad, sweaty ... you can bet that probably many a poorly researched article on the band might portray this as their fan-base. Yet -- as Wicked has pointed out -- the 70s weren't even like that. I think what happened is the NWOBHM hit its stride with young males, and Sabbath were a part of that, but this is poorly defined in terms of understanding the band's appeal in 70s.

                    Anyway ... I understand what you mean. And I certainly won't deny that in scanning several pages of back and forth I may have missed that you were exclusively personalizing the matter, but I don't believe it was this black and white. Your references to potentially misleading TV footage show this, IMO. You're trying to extend an opinion to something more objective, but that is where I have tried to be from the get go. And I suspect my arsenal of objective reference is more extensive than yours.
                    "It is not opinion that Ozzy peaked on Sabotage, it is a measurable fact."
                    -WTB

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by zzzptm View Post
                      Like Jeff, I was away for a while and I'm catching up.

                      The scene is Richardson, Texas, early 1982. I'm 13, going on 14, and have already purchased all the Led Zeppelin albums, most of Deep Purple's and am starting to acquire Black Sabbath. Mob Rules had just dropped, and I was wanting to know if it was any good. I was talking about it at school, 8th grade, and this girl I've known since I moved into the neighborhood in the 5th grade says she's got a copy and will let me borrow it. DUDE. That was totally awesome of her and, turns out, she also had all the Ozzy stuff and, yes, was totally into Sabotage as much as I was.

                      A year and a half later, it's the start of 10th grade and my first year of high school (they did 10-12 at my HS back then) and I'm in Chemistry class, 5th period. This crazy chick with hair metal hair and an Ozzy concert jersey sits next to me and notices I've already started to write rock band names on my book cover. Right away she smiles and know she's sitting next to the right guy, 'coz I've got Zep, Purple, Sabbath, Grand Funk, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Uriah Heep, and all them bands written all over my cover. The teacher would go back to the chem workroom a lot - when she did, we'd start playing air guitar and singing out together to "Mob Rules", "Sweet Home Alabama" and, yes, "Megalomania", although we'd start at the end portion because riffs, dude, riffs.

                      Nothing romantic with either of those two young ladies. Their love of Sabbath and metal/heavy rock in general was real, not some feigned way to reel in a boyfriend.

                      Fast forward to 1986, September. A young lady at The University of Texas at Austin fakes liking Risk enough to get to sit next to me, but her love of the metal was real. I wasn't yet into Metallica or Iron Maiden because I wondered if they'd be too hard for my taste. Well, she turned me on to both those bands and then we tried out The Cult, Guns 'n' Roses, Megadeth, and a lot of other bands together. She bought me Mountain's "The Road Goes on Forever" for my 19th birthday. We played Fastway's first album so much on road trips, the whole album is practically "our song". She liked Sabbath for genuine reasons, all the right reasons. We've been married now, had our 30th anniversary last year.

                      Point being, while the Sabs were no teenybopper-drawing band like Bon Jovi or New Kids on the Block, they certainly had a strong contingent of fans among the ladies, and they were just as true and dedicated as any others.

                      Currently, there are a LOT of stoner bands with a heavy Sabbath influence in their sound that have women filling in various roles on vox or instruments. I'd count them as truefans, as well. Going back to the OP of the thread, looks like I'm in agreement with Jeff's observations, even if my evidence is just anecdotal.
                      Great stuff and your point about modern tribute bands is spot-on. I was mostly referencing the portrayal of the band's appeal in the 70s and I think the band being humble and sometimes not even remembering large chunks of their career has probably contributed to that.

                      But TODAY? I mean, you'd have to be living on this forum exclusively or under a rock. There are all female Sabbath tribute acts who not only know the material but musically recreate it well. There are Sabbath Fan Pages run by females on Facebook. Females commenting on all eras of the band. I mean ... FFS!
                      "It is not opinion that Ozzy peaked on Sabotage, it is a measurable fact."
                      -WTB

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Jeff View Post
                        I think what happened is the NWOBHM hit its stride with young males, and Sabbath were a part of that, but this is poorly defined in terms of understanding the band's appeal in 70s.
                        That's the thing, in the 70's (esp. early on) Hard Rock and what was then called Heavy Metal (or proto-Metal as many call it now) were in parts also still considered pop music (as in popular music, not the genre we now call Pop, evident in Rollers last article post), but it was with "Metal proper" arriving in the late 70's/80's the whole macho Metal dude culture became more prevalent. In hindsight it might be easy for some to think it was like that in the early 70's too, though it was more tie-dye and flares as a "Hippie" left over rather than leather & spikes.
                        95% of everything i say is pure bullshit just for the fun of it. The other 95% is damn serious!
                        Til įrs ok frišar ok forn sišr

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Jeff View Post
                          There are all female Sabbath tribute acts who not only know the material but musically recreate it well.
                          Black Sabbitch is a good example.
                          95% of everything i say is pure bullshit just for the fun of it. The other 95% is damn serious!
                          Til įrs ok frišar ok forn sišr

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Billy Underdog View Post
                            That's the thing, in the 70's (esp. early on) Hard Rock and what was then called Heavy Metal (or proto-Metal as many call it now) were in parts also still considered pop music (as in popular music, not the genre we now call Pop, evident in Rollers last article post), but it was with "Metal proper" arriving in the late 70's/80's the whole macho Metal dude culture became more prevalent. In hindsight it might be easy for some to think it was like that in the early 70's too, though it was more tie-dye and flares as a "Hippie" left over rather than leather & spikes.
                            Considering how the Cal Jam promoters thought that having Earth, Wind, and Fire on the same stage as the Eagles and Black Sabbath made perfect sense underlines that "pop music" big tent that covered a lot of music in the 70s. On the radio in the late 70s, I could hear Little River Band right after Black Sabbath and before Grand Funk. The tight songs of The Cars played right next to the sprawling compositions of Led Zeppelin. When the 80s started, Flock of Seagulls got just as much air time as AC/DC.

                            But even so, one could tell the difference between The Carpenters and Deep Purple. And while my favorite stations had a pretty good mix, they stuck more with the rock side of things and less with the songs on the more pop-ier side of the spectrum. I didn't hear any Barry Manilow or Wild Cherry on my stations. No disco, either.

                            And even with my focus on the rock, there was still what wouldn't ever get played on the radio, the "Underground" stuff. Without any Internet, a fan really had to do some research, face-to-face networking, and exploring those used record stores to find the hidden gems that we can now spin up in 2 seconds with a YouTube search.

                            Comment


                            • I know that 60 something year old waitress lady was a true Sabbath fan, she had a smile when she saw my shirt, and the way she spoke.

                              That’s all I can say. I’m sure there are countless others.
                              "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
                              "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
                              ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

                              Comment


                              • ^^^

                                Sure there was a division between Rock and the more popier music, but you couldn't necessarily distinguish an Eagles fan from a Sabbath fan simply from appearance the way you later could with a Flock of Seagulls fan and an AC/DC fan.
                                95% of everything i say is pure bullshit just for the fun of it. The other 95% is damn serious!
                                Til įrs ok frišar ok forn sišr

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