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  • Thelemech
    replied
    Originally posted by Sicko FanAtic View Post
    Being exposed to academia has led me to A: say things in a way that leaves nobody offended, leading to B. Saying effectively nothing at all, haha

    .........

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  • Sabbabbath
    replied
    Originally posted by Sicko FanAtic View Post
    Glad we can find a point of agreement, Linda. Being exposed to academia has led me to A: say things in a way that leaves nobody offended, leading to B. Saying effectively nothing at all, haha
    LOL, same here.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sicko FanAtic
    replied
    Glad we can find a point of agreement, Linda. Being exposed to academia has led me to A: say things in a way that leaves nobody offended, leading to B. Saying effectively nothing at all, haha

    Leave a comment:


  • Sabbabbath
    replied
    Originally posted by Sicko FanAtic View Post
    I have an intuition that having extensive collections, be it of comic books, guns, motorcycles, bootlegs, vinyl, etc., is a predominantly male activity. Women do have large collections of shoes though. Yes, these are stereotypes, I realize that, thus my appeal to "intuition". I do wonder if that may be one of the main factors that lead to overall less hard core female "fans" when it comes to both progressive, or album rock and obscure, underground bands, while female fans tend to gravitate toward the more ephemeral musics that make it on the radio, more a "music of utility" if you will, rather than a "music of identity". I do apologize for making such a suggestion, but the thought occured to me and it seemed brilliant in a myopic way, haha

    https://diamonddavewonfor.wordpress....cting-organ-2/

    Please note, I'm not making a value judgement. Utility in fact seems much more useful than identity. Fandom seems kind of silly to me...
    I share your intuition, Sicko, and you are making some very interesting points here in my opinion. I like it how you name tendencies without insinuating that something must be wrong with every woman or man who doesn't correspond to those tendencies (e.g. me, with my very nerdy habits in collecting unofficial Sabbath recordings, many of which are pretty much unlisteneable ;-) ). Also, by distinguishing "music of utility" from "music of identity", you leave the level of mere description and enter into real analysis. Spontaneously it feels right to me that many women have a somehow more pragmatic relationship to music than many men. On the other hand, during adolescence, many girls do seem to have an "identity" connection to music too - some with boy groups, some with punk, goth, metal... but for many, this seems to change when they grow up... hm... interesting...

    I also agree with your critical stance regarding fandom.

    Again, thanks for your thoughts. You are demonstrating that it is absolutely possible to talk about possible differences between groups of people without devaluing one of them. Good job IMO.

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  • Billy Underdog
    replied
    ^^^ Stereotypes are fun, because they're both true and false at the same time...

    Leave a comment:


  • Sicko FanAtic
    replied
    I have an intuition that having extensive collections, be it of comic books, guns, motorcycles, bootlegs, vinyl, etc., is a predominantly male activity. Women do have large collections of shoes though. Yes, these are stereotypes, I realize that, thus my appeal to "intuition". I do wonder if that may be one of the main factors that lead to overall less hard core female "fans" when it comes to both progressive, or album rock and obscure, underground bands, while female fans tend to gravitate toward the more ephemeral musics that make it on the radio, more a "music of utility" if you will, rather than a "music of identity". I do apologize for making such a suggestion, but the thought occured to me and it seemed brilliant in a myopic way, haha

    https://diamonddavewonfor.wordpress....cting-organ-2/

    Please note, I'm not making a value judgement. Utility in fact seems much more useful than identity. Fandom seems kind of silly to me...
    Last edited by Sicko FanAtic; 02-10-2018, 10:36 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Billy Underdog
    replied
    Originally posted by zzzptm View Post
    I was at The University of Texas at Austin when not only was there a hair metal band named Pantera, there was also a Pantera's Pizza that had some pretty mean slices, right up there with Milto's and Conan's. This was 1986-1989.

    Pantera's Pizza had been pretty well established, so we were all "WTF? A hair metal band named after a pizza store? Guess it takes all types to make the world go 'round..." Maybe the pizza store connection was just a coincidence, but it's what we thought.

    Years later, when Pantera started showing up on MTV and Diamond Darrell was now Dimebag Darrell and Rexx Rocker was just Rex Brown, I was kinda floored that they had gone so completely from glam to grunt. But based on that genre shift alone, I'd wager that their female fanbase *declined* from the 80s to the 90s.

    As a teacher in the 2000s to about 2013, I never heard a girl chanting out the lyrics to "Walk" by Pantera. Guys would chant it periodically. I'll add that anecdotal evidence to support my view that Pantera found a way to turn away the ladies in the early 90s.

    On the flipside, "Don't Stop Believin'" by Journey is guaranteed to have a predominantly female sing-along chorus. Even more so for "Open Arms". While Journey's first three releases with Gregg Rolie on vocals aren't particularly polarizing as regards gender, bringing in Steve Perry meant ballads and with those ballads, the ladies began to flock.
    They took the name from this car that Vinnie was a huge fan of:



    Funny connection with the pizza place, though. And cool that you were around in their earliest days.

    The name Rexx Rocker always cracks me up, the least Glam guy of the lot, atleast until Anselmo came along.

    Leave a comment:


  • zzzptm
    replied
    I was at The University of Texas at Austin when not only was there a hair metal band named Pantera, there was also a Pantera's Pizza that had some pretty mean slices, right up there with Milto's and Conan's. This was 1986-1989.

    Pantera's Pizza had been pretty well established, so we were all "WTF? A hair metal band named after a pizza store? Guess it takes all types to make the world go 'round..." Maybe the pizza store connection was just a coincidence, but it's what we thought.

    Years later, when Pantera started showing up on MTV and Diamond Darrell was now Dimebag Darrell and Rexx Rocker was just Rex Brown, I was kinda floored that they had gone so completely from glam to grunt. But based on that genre shift alone, I'd wager that their female fanbase *declined* from the 80s to the 90s.

    As a teacher in the 2000s to about 2013, I never heard a girl chanting out the lyrics to "Walk" by Pantera. Guys would chant it periodically. I'll add that anecdotal evidence to support my view that Pantera found a way to turn away the ladies in the early 90s.

    On the flipside, "Don't Stop Believin'" by Journey is guaranteed to have a predominantly female sing-along chorus. Even more so for "Open Arms". While Journey's first three releases with Gregg Rolie on vocals aren't particularly polarizing as regards gender, bringing in Steve Perry meant ballads and with those ballads, the ladies began to flock.

    Leave a comment:


  • OzzyIsDio
    replied
    Originally posted by Billy Underdog View Post

    The problem with Pantera was, along with Phil Anselmo talking out of his ass pretty often, they were also very proud of being southerners/Texans, even using the confederate flag. For them it was about their culture and heritage, not at all having a racist point of view, but that along with having some pretty violent and "take no bullshit" lyrics did attract some unwanted elements. It ended with Dimebag being shot on stage, so just goes to show what a thin line one is walking when using such imagery and topics.
    Yes that probably added to the problem, I even seen them walking around screaming White Power, and literally knocking people out of the way.

    That was most unfortunate what happened to Dimebag Darrell.

    Leave a comment:


  • Billy Underdog
    replied
    Originally posted by Sabbabbath View Post
    I tend to agree that gangsta rap (at least some of the more underground stuff) is probably a case in point
    Don't know how it was like in the early 90's, but now the Norwegian Gansta Rap, or rather Hip Hop scene in general is actually dominated by female rappers. O.k, maybe not dominated, but it seems like as far as hits goes, there've been more females lately. I think that's pretty cool. These are girls straight people wouldn't wanna meet in a dark alley at nighttime.

    Originally posted by OzzyIsDio View Post
    Yes I agree it’s awful, but Pantera weren’t a White Power band, so they wouldn’t be singing about anything the skinheads would be interested in.
    The problem with Pantera was, along with Phil Anselmo talking out of his ass pretty often, they were also very proud of being southerners/Texans, even using the confederate flag. For them it was about their culture and heritage, not at all having a racist point of view, but that along with having some pretty violent and "take no bullshit" lyrics did attract some unwanted elements. It ended with Dimebag being shot on stage, so just goes to show what a thin line one is walking when using such imagery and topics.

    Originally posted by Sabbabbath View Post
    OK, I guess one thing we all agree about is that there is rarely a 100% male fanbase
    I think it's safe to say there've never a 100% male fanbase for any band. Even with the most brutish knuckledragging Death Metal or east coast Hardcore Punk or whatever cheastbeating genre one can imagine. Believing so contradict all logic. One thing is there might not have been many females on the gigs, but i refuse the idea that there wasn't atleast someone female in the world listening to records at home.
    But i think it's safe to say (and this is just my assumption) that Sabbath at every point/era had more female fans than some of these examples.
    Last edited by Billy Underdog; 02-10-2018, 01:15 AM.

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  • AlexBarghest
    replied
    Death Metal scene in late ‘80s- early ‘90s was close to full male domination. Now it’s different.

    Leave a comment:


  • OzzyIsDio
    replied
    How about Mercyful Fate?

    Leave a comment:


  • OzzyIsDio
    replied
    Originally posted by Sabbabbath View Post
    That sounds awful. Yeah, there were at least a few incidents that should be expected to encourage Nazi followers:
    https://www.spin.com/2016/01/pantera...-power-joking/

    The guys at my school who were into Pantera weren't full-blown Neonazis, but most of them were openly racist and generally not the kind of guys I would like to hang out with.
    Yes I agree it’s awful, but Pantera weren’t a White Power band, so they wouldn’t be singing about anything the skinheads would be interested in.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sabbabbath
    replied
    Originally posted by OzzyIsDio View Post
    The few times I saw Pantera they had lots of skinheads present, sieg heiling and all, I always found that odd at Pantera concerts.
    That sounds awful. Yeah, there were at least a few incidents that should be expected to encourage Nazi followers:
    https://www.spin.com/2016/01/pantera...-power-joking/

    The guys at my school who were into Pantera weren't full-blown Neonazis, but most of them were openly racist and generally not the kind of guys I would like to hang out with.

    Originally posted by Sabbabbath View Post
    How about Slayer? Venom?
    Originally posted by Billy Underdog View Post
    Both pretty "dudeish", but i don't see any reason for girls not liking any of them.
    OK, I guess one thing we all agree about is that there is rarely a 100% male fanbase; I guess what we're now looking for is a band whose fanbase (at least in a specific era) is significantly more male-dominated (in terms of numbers and maybe culture?) than 1970ies Sabbath. I think zzzptm's "95+" suggestion is good; I tend to agree that gangsta rap (at least some of the more underground stuff) is probably a case in point (but again, it's not a style of music that I am very familiar with, so I might be wrong). Other ideas?

    It would be quite fascinating and surprising if this thread would somehow lead to the conclusion that there are no bands in the world that have a smaller portion of female fans than 1970ies Sabbath. :-)

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  • BACK TO EDEN
    replied
    Originally posted by Sicko FanAtic View Post
    One idea running through this thread is that we all agree, Sabbath is mostly a "guy's band". What makes it that way? This question has, of course, received a good deal of attention in academic studies ( not concerning Sabbath in particular). Here's a link that summarizes a good deal of that research

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psyc...sic_preference
    Also very true in audio ,, females tend to lean toward "2 way" speakers (less bass) , and males tend to lean toward "3 way" speakers and beyond , at a rate of about 20 to 1 .... size plays a big role here , along with "soundwave" production.

    Leave a comment:

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