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  • Billy Underdog
    replied
    Might be nice to hear others (not specifically Sab-fans) talking about women in Metal in general, sorry if that's not on topic, though i think it is. Or atleast relevant..:

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  • Sabbabbath
    replied
    Originally posted by Sicko FanAtic View Post
    Yes, and my post addressed his premise.
    I was just trying to help. Your comment sounded to me like you were unsure how Jeff defined the topic, that's why I pointed to his first posts. I think he made it pretty clear that he does NOT dispute that Sabbath fans in the 1970ies were male in majority. Rather, he seemed to suggest that the fanbase of 1970ies Sabbath is pictured even MORE male (and generally more homogenic and black-leather wearing) than it actually was.

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  • Billy Underdog
    replied
    Originally posted by William_the_Bloody View Post
    In today's political climate, are we allowed to even suggest or research scientifically that there might be a difference between men and women?

    I mean that would ruffle some feathers would it not? I think it would be interesting to study Trans-gendered Men and women who are on opposite hormone treatments to see if their musical interests have changed or remained the same...whether familiarity and habit play a part or if musical preference is more biochemical in nature?

    I've got an informal poll up at another board where there may be anonymous Trans-gendered people. We'll see if it gets traction/results.
    As with everything it would be interesting to study, but from the well of information i pull out of my head i don't see any reason why being a trans should make any difference. If you're a man born in a womans body or vice versa, you're still the same person after going through the surgery and hormone treatments as before. Hormones can do alot, but i don't think it'll alter your personallity and taste. Reminds me about the east-European lumberjack who claimed that after having had a heart transplant from a female donor became more interested in "women activities" as knitting and cooking. Utterly pointless, and way out of any normal understanding of the world.

    Formerly Wayne, now Jayne County being a pioneering Punk artist as well as a pioneer for the trans-sexuals (first) and trans-genders (later) just shows that Rock doesn't really have any gender boundaries at all.
    Janis Joplin rocked harder than Bruce Dickinson could ever dream of...

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  • Sabbabbath
    replied
    Originally posted by OzzyIsDio View Post
    Hi Linda and Will, just curious, how was the Cross Purposes show?

    You both said you attended it right? And how was the female attendance?

    P.S. Sin Cardinal Sin is a good man, good friend of mine.
    I attended a show of the Forbidden tour. I loved it, though the volume was really far too high and thus unnecessarily distorted (even the vocals). "When Death Calls" was great. Tony Martin's voice was of course not in best shape anymore (it got much worse between 1990 and 1994), but he did his best.

    As for Cardinal Sin, well, being your friend is not an excuse for trolling and bullying around. He came to this thread with nothing but aggression, he did not say one word related to the topic.

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  • Sicko FanAtic
    replied
    Originally posted by Sabbabbath View Post



    Jeff explained the topic of this thread in his first few posts on page one.
    Yes, and my post addressed his premise.

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  • OzzyIsDio
    replied
    Hi Linda and Will, just curious, how was the Cross Purposes show?

    You both said you attended it right? And how was the female attendance?

    P.S. Sin Cardinal Sin is a good man, good friend of mine.
    Last edited by OzzyIsDio; 02-07-2018, 03:54 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sabbabbath
    replied
    Originally posted by William_the_Bloody View Post
    In today's political climate, are we allowed to even suggest or research scientifically that there might be a difference between men and women?
    Of course I don't know about the political climate, nor about science, in your hometown and how they relate, but in the world as a whole there are uncountable scientific studies carried out about that kind of stuff (and pretty much everything else).

    Originally posted by Sicko FanAtic View Post
    I don't think that calling Ozzy-era Sabbath a "guy's band" means that the band only appealed to guys.i don't know, maybe that is what whoever said that meant... In what context was that said? You mentioned Ozzy's book I believe, and some comments on a live video of EoTB. That Sabbath in the 70s appealed mostly to guys would not be refuted by some pictures and audio that show there were also females. Some females and mostly guys I would imagine. Which still would make it mostly a "guy's band". I'm not sure what I'm arguing against here because I'm not certain what the actual argument is, so I'll stop for now.
    Jeff explained the topic of this thread in his first few posts on page one.

    Originally posted by Damian View Post
    Just summarizing here. Clearly, when you "drop by" and make 12 posts and zero of them reference the topic, you should expect to be banned, or warned at least. .
    Thanks for intervening, Damian. It's appreciated. We've had several fights in this thread, but "Sin Cardinal Sin" didn't even seem to care what kind of forum or thread he was haunting. So hopefully he will go on trolling on some Manowar or cosmetics forum for a while and leave us alone.

    Originally posted by Damian View Post
    Guys, please start yet another thread on "Ozzy's voice quality discussion" if you want to continue this. Unless you are going with an "Ozzy's cracking voice keeps female listeners away" or "Ozzy's voice is what got women into Sabbath" or something related to the topic, lets move on. The banter itself is fine, its just in the wrong place. Thanks.
    Originally posted by Jeff View Post
    This thread which I started and I thought attempted to define was about the oft-repeated exaggeration that Sabbath were a guy's band.
    I tend to agree with Damian here. To be sure, obviously this thread already took several twists and turns before, but it always seemed to get back to the topic. The more recent changes of subject, however, seem to deserve their own new threads - be it the condition of Ozzy's voice in recent years, or the gender differences in musical tastes and the root causes of those differences. Both are interesting topics, but they are indeed far removed from the original question asked by Jeff in the beginning of this thread.

    EDIT: Thinking about it again, maybe it's OK to keep going and see what happens - maybe we will keep getting back to the topic again? Jeff, what do you think?
    Last edited by Sabbabbath; 02-07-2018, 04:45 PM.

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  • Sicko FanAtic
    replied
    Originally posted by Jeff View Post
    Been busy in recent days and had a lot of "catching up" here.

    It's always somewhat perplexing to me how people with a confessed lack of in-depth knowledge on a topic will still stride forward with a false narrative that is easily disproved.

    Perhaps even more bizarre is that I've actually come to believe we have a number of people who contribute to this forum where apparently this is the "end all" of their Sabbath knowledge.

    Other fan sites? "Nope." Facebook fan groups with thousands of old photos? "Eh?" Old magazine interviews? "Huh?" Bootlegs? "No clue. I think I have one ..."

    This stuff isn't down to a single factor. First of all, let's forget the modern day and videos like the one for "The End Of The Beginning." Okay? Let's go back to BEFORE things were as "canned" as they are today.

    I don't understand how anyone so committed to a band as to be on a fan forum could be so uneducated about said band. You can read Rolling Stone articles from the early 70s where they are asking girls at Sabbath concerts what the appeal of the music is. You can look at any of thousands of photos from the 70s on dedicated Sabbath fan pages via Facebook. You can listen to audience recordings made from the front of halls, back of halls ... there is SIMPLY NO EVIDENCE to support the notion that 70s Sabbath were exclusively a "guy's band."

    FTR, the notion that Don Kirshner's Rock Concert or Sabbath could have given two shits about who forced their way up front at the Santa Monica Civic in 1975 when they were filmed is when we have to all take inventory of just how far it's reasonable to stretch one's pants to fit into a personalized little narrative.

    At the beginning of this thread, I posted a picture from Sabbath's concert in Tuscon, AZ on March 16, '72. Totally random black and white shot of Tony and Ozzy in concert taken from behind stage left. The front row has chicks. Because Sabbath appealed to some chicks. Any band who was playing the arenas they were was going to draw some females, folks. The "guy's band" narrative should be attached first to certain Punk bands and Thrash bands where in a sea of 500 people it might be hard to find a single girl.

    Don't like video? It was never my intention to refer only to video. Black Sabbath live in the 70s happens to be one of my most treasured musical experiences, so I have a lot of shows. As I've said, there are shows recorded from the audience that have screaming women. They weren't The Beatles. They weren't Rod Stewart. That isn't the point. The point is that they were never Black Flag either.
    I don't think that calling Ozzy-era Sabbath a "guy's band" means that the band only appealed to guys.i don't know, maybe that is what whoever said that meant... In what context was that said? You mentioned Ozzy's book I believe, and some comments on a live video of EoTB. That Sabbath in the 70s appealed mostly to guys would not be refuted by some pictures and audio that show there were also females. Some females and mostly guys I would imagine. Which still would make it mostly a "guy's band". I'm not sure what I'm arguing against here because I'm not certain what the actual argument is, so I'll stop for now.

    Leave a comment:


  • William_the_Bloody
    replied
    Originally posted by Sicko FanAtic View Post
    That would be one hell of an experiment! Way to think outside the box on that one. My inkling is that the differences are more societal than biological, but that's just an inkling.

    Thanks, but I failed to consider: Transgendered people are already operating at a certain opposite sexual polarity before taking a hormone...so the Born-Man might already prefer more typically "feminine" music and same with the born-Woman.

    early results show hormone therapy did not produce a change in musical tastes, but that's only 2 results lol.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sicko FanAtic
    replied
    https://musicmachinery.com/2014/02/1...fic-listening/

    Interesting study on music preferences.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sicko FanAtic
    replied
    Originally posted by William_the_Bloody View Post
    In today's political climate, are we allowed to even suggest or research scientifically that there might be a difference between men and women?

    I mean that would ruffle some feathers would it not? I think it would be interesting to study Trans-gendered Men and women who are on opposite hormone treatments to see if their musical interests have changed or remained the same...whether familiarity and habit play a part or if musical preference is more biochemical in nature?
    That would be one hell of an experiment! Way to think outside the box on that one. My inkling is that the differences are more societal than biological, but that's just an inkling.

    Leave a comment:


  • William_the_Bloody
    replied
    Originally posted by Sicko FanAtic View Post
    Statistics! Thank you! I was just thinking this morning of perhaps looking into some scientific studies of differences in music preference based on gender. I do recall a thread on here about that, with a poll and statistical analysis and such. Maybe I remember that from a past life? Anybody remember such a thread?
    In today's political climate, are we allowed to even suggest or research scientifically that there might be a difference between men and women?

    I mean that would ruffle some feathers would it not? I think it would be interesting to study Trans-gendered Men and women who are on opposite hormone treatments to see if their musical interests have changed or remained the same...whether familiarity and habit play a part or if musical preference is more biochemical in nature?

    I've got an informal poll up at another board where there may be anonymous Trans-gendered people. We'll see if it gets traction/results.
    Last edited by William_the_Bloody; 02-07-2018, 01:43 PM. Reason: Editing is fun, adding more words and stuff

    Leave a comment:


  • Sicko FanAtic
    replied
    Originally posted by zzzptm View Post
    So, yeah, ladies in the crowd at Sabbath concerts...

    This is an article from 2014: https://insights.spotify.com/us/2014...as-music-fans/

    Granted, it's not from the 1970s, but it does reflect the more general tastes in music, broken out by gender. We'll all find outliers, sure, but the general trends are what they are.

    I suppose in the 70s, there would have been a higher percentage of female listeners to Donny Osmond than to, say, Judas Priest.
    Statistics! Thank you! I was just thinking this morning of perhaps looking into some scientific studies of differences in music preference based on gender. I do recall a thread on here about that, with a poll and statistical analysis and such. Maybe I remember that from a past life? Anybody remember such a thread?

    Leave a comment:


  • zzzptm
    replied
    So, yeah, ladies in the crowd at Sabbath concerts...

    This is an article from 2014: https://insights.spotify.com/us/2014...as-music-fans/

    Granted, it's not from the 1970s, but it does reflect the more general tastes in music, broken out by gender. We'll all find outliers, sure, but the general trends are what they are.

    I suppose in the 70s, there would have been a higher percentage of female listeners to Donny Osmond than to, say, Judas Priest.

    Leave a comment:


  • Damian
    replied
    Originally posted by William_the_Bloody View Post
    Damien: I can't reply to your message?
    Can't reply because of a glitch or because of rules? I don't know what you mean. I think you can reply. Why not send it in PM to me so these nice folks can continue talking about the Female Audience in Ozzy-Era Sabbath? If you are technically not able to, let us know so we can try to resolve.

    Thanks.

    Leave a comment:

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