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  • #76
    back in '76 my sister went with us ,but she took off and waited for us,because the devil's face on top of stage freaked her out.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Jeff View Post
      Thanks for the personal insights but I think you're missing the actual topics at hand:

      It's about how or when this perception of Sabbath as "guy's band" came to be. And does it really have much credibility?

      It's just a topic for discussion. Not a suggested approach to dating.

      Ah, I was actually searching for something else and coincidentally stumbled across this old thread you recently mentioned, Jeff. Cool topic.

      Regarding your second question, I actually think that the opposition of "macho band" vs "chicks band" that was suggested somewhere earlier in this thread is misleading. Led Zeppelin were sex symbols for sure, definitely much more than Sabbath, but does that mean that Zeppelin (or their male fans) were not macho (or less macho than Sabbath)? Honestly, given what I have read about Led Zeppelin's relation to women (and even little girls), I don't think so! I think Sabbath were/are both less macho and less sex symbols than Zeppelin. But then again, the sex appeal of musicians is not the only reason why (some) women go to rock concerts of male bands. Some, like me, just love the music. When I started listening to Sabbath, I didn't even know how they looked really. I sometimes put on their music when I am with my friends, and the portion of women who initially like it is not really low. I think Sabbath's magic has always predominantly been based on their music, maybe combined with the dark lyrics and image. Anyway, it clearly attracts more men than women - nobody is disputing that. (At the Sabbath show feat. Tony Martin on vocals that I attended in 1995, there was probably about 20% women, most of them real metal-heads. Of course, some probably came for Tiamat rather than Sabbath, but then again, I don't think Tiamat are exactly sex symbols. :-D I never attended an Ozzy-Sabbath show, the 1995 gig is the only Sabbath concert experience I can draw on.)
      Last edited by Sabbabbath; 01-25-2018, 10:01 AM.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by WallOfSleep View Post
        As a Sabbath-loving high school kid in the seventies, I didn't know any chicks who were into Sabbath. The perception I had was that the average Sabbath fan was a lot like me: kind of a loner, outsider, stoner, and male. Sabbath was definitely a 'dudes only' band in my neck of the woods.
        Kind of similar to my experience, but in the 80's. When I went to my first concert (Sabbath in '86), there were a few of us from high school who went to the show, and one of them was a female, and I assume she was into Sabbath the same reason I was, because of the music and because Sabbath had a little more substance than what it seemed everyone else (at high school) was into at the time. I'm sure I read somewhere, (but can't remember when or where or even who said it, Geoff or Tony?) that Ray Gillen's presence in the band drew more of a female audience to the shows, Don't know how true that is, I'll have to figure out where I read that. Actually I remember a few girls at high school being more into Thrash than Black Sabbath, as Sabbath was kind of considered old hat by many, back in the late 80's around my area.
        Last edited by Axe fiend; 01-25-2018, 11:50 AM.
        We donít see things as they are; we see them as we are.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Axe fiend View Post
          Ray Gillen's presence in the band drew more of a female audience to the shows.
          Bingo. Cute guys means more females in the crowd, in general.

          I remember my wife-to-be and her best friend insisting that I go with them to a Bon Jovi concert back in 1987. Having seen Iron Maiden a few weeks prior, I was in ideal conditions to observe the difference in the crowds.

          Bon Jovi fans were definitely way more female... and way more pre-teen than the crowd for Iron Maiden.

          I can't disagree. If I had a choice between waking up one day with Bruce Dickinson's face or Jon Bon Jovi's face, I'd take the Bon Jovi face, any day.

          And while Dickinson shouted out all his "SCREAM FOR ME!!!" lines, the screaming was non-stop for Bon Jovi, thanks to all the lungpower in 11-year-old girls wearing t-shirts that touch the ground. You do NOT say "Scream for me!" to a teenybopper crowd if you want your eardrums to survive!

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          • #80
            Originally posted by zzzptm View Post
            If I had a choice between waking up one day with Bruce Dickinson's face or Jon Bon Jovi's face, I'd take the Bon Jovi face, any day.
            Taste is definitely not a topic to fight about. Anyway, while I was wondering if I agree or disagree with your statement, it suddenly hit me that I feel Bill Ward in 1970 was 10 times more handsome than both Dickinson and Bon Jovi at any time. If you watch the Brussels aka Paris 1970 video, don't you think those are handsome guys?

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Sabbabbath View Post
              Taste is definitely not a topic to fight about. Anyway, while I was wondering if I agree or disagree with your statement, it suddenly hit me that I feel Bill Ward in 1970 was 10 times more handsome than both Dickinson and Bon Jovi at any time. If you watch the Brussels aka Paris 1970 video, don't you think those are handsome guys?
              We get to see Ozzy mostly, but Bill Ward sure did clean up good back then. I'll agree that I like the cut of his jib and the sound of his town.

              Geezer and Tony, though... hard to tell, since they've got heads down, hair obscuring most facial features for most of the glimpses we get of them. Looking at the California Jam, though, they don't look half bad.

              But they're no Vince Taylor...



              Another face that, if I woke up one day looking like that, I wouldn't complain one little bitty bit.

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              • #82
                I remember Bunny Pink who was a regular female member, also fairies wear heels, they haven't been around in awhile.

                Tracette, still comes on once in a blue moon, and of course Lillith13, who has interviewed Bill Ward, she was on here a few days ago.
                "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
                "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
                ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by zzzptm View Post
                  We get to see Ozzy mostly, but Bill Ward sure did clean up good back then. I'll agree that I like the cut of his jib and the sound of his town.
                  ...and he wore a great sweater or long sleeve or whatever with those stars on it! Ozzy's also looking really sweet on the Brussels show, and so focused - check him out on Hand of Doom, this guy gives everything. I don't know if he was on drugs at the show - his facial expression and the way he stares remind me of people I have seen on speed -, but they definitely don't distract him.

                  Originally posted by zzzptm View Post
                  Geezer and Tony, though... hard to tell, since they've got heads down, hair obscuring most facial features for most of the glimpses we get of them.
                  I agree, though I think that Geezer does have something about him if you look closer. Look how delicate his fingers look on close-ups.

                  Originally posted by zzzptm View Post
                  Looking at the California Jam, though, they don't look half bad.
                  Absolutely. Ozzy and Bill have already loosened a bit since the Brussels show though. Cal Jam is the only time I ever see Tony without his mustache - it's so unfamiliar, LOL.

                  Originally posted by zzzptm View Post
                  But they're no Vince Taylor...

                  Another face that, if I woke up one day looking like that, I wouldn't complain one little bitty bit.
                  You've got a point there, LOL.

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Sabbabbath View Post
                    You've got a point there, LOL.


                    I picked him because, in spite of his off-stage BS, bands kept forming around him because he could put butts in seats and then get 'em shakin' all over. (Which was also a hit for him after it was a hit for Johnny Kidd and the Pirates. Taylor also got to be the backup "French Elvis" when Johnny Hallyday had to do his national service.)

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                    • #85
                      If were talking fans in the 70's... males outnumbered chicks I'd say 10-1 at a Sabbath show and very few if any girls I knew listened to them in H.S. They were definitely a guy's band. Any females who did go see them live were 99% with their BF's... they're weren't any "older" fans or kids at those shows either we're talking 70's not 21st century. Henry Rollins had it 100% correct in who were the Sab fans.... her nailed it!
                      "Music is so sacred to me that I canít hear wishy-washy nonsense just played for the sake of selling records."
                      R. Blackmore

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Wicked Cricket View Post
                        If were talking fans in the 70's... males outnumbered chicks I'd say 10-1 at a Sabbath show and very few if any girls I knew listened to them in H.S. They were definitely a guy's band. Any females who did go see them live were 99% with their BF's... they're weren't any "older" fans or kids at those shows either we're talking 70's not 21st century. Henry Rollins had it 100% correct in who were the Sab fans.... her nailed it!
                        The problem with this is that you're speaking in absolute terms, when the chances are good that you can only speak for one specific area. The area where you grew up and happened to be.

                        Recordings speak volumes. And when a band has shows with screaming women in their archive, the "guy's band" tag can only ever be an exaggeration, IMO.
                        "It is not opinion that Ozzy peaked on Sabotage, it is a measurable fact."
                        -WTB

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Jeff View Post
                          The problem with this is that you're speaking in absolute terms, when the chances are good that you can only speak for one specific area. The area where you grew up and happened to be.

                          Recordings speak volumes. And when a band has shows with screaming women in their archive, the "guy's band" tag can only ever be an exaggeration, IMO.
                          ha! well I'm only speaking from a specific area and experience yes....
                          "Music is so sacred to me that I canít hear wishy-washy nonsense just played for the sake of selling records."
                          R. Blackmore

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                          • #88
                            I would argue that the vast majority of individual experiences, recordings be damned (and how many shows that were actually filmed weren't staged with hired girls up front or just moving more women to the front for free), most will turn out to be a "Guys only" band.

                            Ozzy Solo, on the other hand, really opened things up.

                            Black Sabbath's point-of-view just isn't "Alpha" and that's what the ladies are latching on to. Sabbath is a band for the left-behind, downtrodden, depressed. I'll probably catch hell for that one, but it's true.

                            The rare female that likes Black Sabbath either likes all the "wrong" songs (Changes, Sweet Leaf because they really like Marijuana, Paranoid because they heard it on the radio) or they like the most "Devil" songs because they are latching on to the Witchy/Tatted up Hardcore trope.

                            I will catch more hell for that, I'll bet.

                            Show me a woman who listens to "Megalomania" because she relates to the isolation and escapism and the snarliness of the riff...I mean really...find ONE.

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by William_the_Bloody View Post
                              Show me a woman who listens to "Megalomania" because she relates to the isolation and escapism and the snarliness of the riff...I mean really...find ONE.
                              Well - me!!!
                              Last edited by Sabbabbath; 01-28-2018, 01:45 PM.

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by William_the_Bloody View Post
                                I would argue that the vast majority of individual experiences, recordings be damned (and how many shows that were actually filmed weren't staged with hired girls up front or just moving more women to the front for free), most will turn out to be a "Guys only" band.

                                Ozzy Solo, on the other hand, really opened things up.

                                Black Sabbath's point-of-view just isn't "Alpha" and that's what the ladies are latching on to. Sabbath is a band for the left-behind, downtrodden, depressed. I'll probably catch hell for that one, but it's true.

                                The rare female that likes Black Sabbath either likes all the "wrong" songs (Changes, Sweet Leaf because they really like Marijuana, Paranoid because they heard it on the radio) or they like the most "Devil" songs because they are latching on to the Witchy/Tatted up Hardcore trope.

                                I will catch more hell for that, I'll bet.

                                Show me a woman who listens to "Megalomania" because she relates to the isolation and escapism and the snarliness of the riff...I mean really...find ONE.
                                yea, and the thing is in the 70's, there wasn't a "Heavy Metal" genre crowd, where both sexes mingled, heck even hard rock was predominately male, and the gothic chick thing wasn't even a category. One has to be careful to view concerts back in the 70's, as many multi-band festivals, Cal Jam I for instance, were an eclectic mix of music from funk to country rock to hard rock/metal, drawing crowds from all genres. Like I previously said, my opinion is from personal boots on the ground experience not from watching an old video from California or wherever. For 2nd and 3rd generation fans there's a greater mix of male/female.
                                "Music is so sacred to me that I canít hear wishy-washy nonsense just played for the sake of selling records."
                                R. Blackmore

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