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  • Jeff
    replied
    Originally posted by William_the_Bloody View Post
    Giant sigh....still exhaling....still...

    Jeff: I'm not saying there aren't female Black Sabbath fans. I'm saying I haven't met any that are what *I* would call legitimate fans. I have ZERO DOUBT whatsoever that there were a legion of hangers-on in the 70's when Black Sabbath was new and fresh. I came of age in the 80's, and Black Sabbath was female repellant. They just were, and that's what *I* lived through. Black Sabbath had a resurgence in the 90's and a lot of young girls latched on once again while the fun train was blowing through town.

    You showing up and dragging this all out again after we have all finally settled down just forces me back into a defensive position again. Why? Because you didn't read what I *actually* wrote and said.

    So here I am again. How many rounds do you want to do on this?

    I mean it's really this simple: If you can't name ONE song on Sabotage, you aren't a Black Sabbath fan. Period. I've never met one female that can name one track off of Sabotage. I'm glad you've had a different experience.

    And yes, when people are filming ANYTHING in public, they will try to move good looking women into the frame. It's film-making 101. You can say "They probably didn't do that; they didn't care" but you are doing the same thing I would be doing...speculating to fit your own narrative.

    Bloody hell, this is exhausting and annoying.
    William: I, for one, am certainly fine if you wish to have a conversation about what defines a female Black Sabbath fan. For you, the ability to name a song from Sabotage seems to be highly valued. Nothing wrong with that.

    But this would seem to be a different thread. This thread which I started and I thought attempted to define was about the oft-repeated exaggeration that Sabbath were a guy's band. Bikers, spikes, leather-clad, sweaty ... you can bet that probably many a poorly researched article on the band might portray this as their fan-base. Yet -- as Wicked has pointed out -- the 70s weren't even like that. I think what happened is the NWOBHM hit its stride with young males, and Sabbath were a part of that, but this is poorly defined in terms of understanding the band's appeal in 70s.

    Anyway ... I understand what you mean. And I certainly won't deny that in scanning several pages of back and forth I may have missed that you were exclusively personalizing the matter, but I don't believe it was this black and white. Your references to potentially misleading TV footage show this, IMO. You're trying to extend an opinion to something more objective, but that is where I have tried to be from the get go. And I suspect my arsenal of objective reference is more extensive than yours.

    Leave a comment:


  • zzzptm
    replied
    Like Jeff, I was away for a while and I'm catching up.

    The scene is Richardson, Texas, early 1982. I'm 13, going on 14, and have already purchased all the Led Zeppelin albums, most of Deep Purple's and am starting to acquire Black Sabbath. Mob Rules had just dropped, and I was wanting to know if it was any good. I was talking about it at school, 8th grade, and this girl I've known since I moved into the neighborhood in the 5th grade says she's got a copy and will let me borrow it. DUDE. That was totally awesome of her and, turns out, she also had all the Ozzy stuff and, yes, was totally into Sabotage as much as I was.

    A year and a half later, it's the start of 10th grade and my first year of high school (they did 10-12 at my HS back then) and I'm in Chemistry class, 5th period. This crazy chick with hair metal hair and an Ozzy concert jersey sits next to me and notices I've already started to write rock band names on my book cover. Right away she smiles and know she's sitting next to the right guy, 'coz I've got Zep, Purple, Sabbath, Grand Funk, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Uriah Heep, and all them bands written all over my cover. The teacher would go back to the chem workroom a lot - when she did, we'd start playing air guitar and singing out together to "Mob Rules", "Sweet Home Alabama" and, yes, "Megalomania", although we'd start at the end portion because riffs, dude, riffs.

    Nothing romantic with either of those two young ladies. Their love of Sabbath and metal/heavy rock in general was real, not some feigned way to reel in a boyfriend.

    Fast forward to 1986, September. A young lady at The University of Texas at Austin fakes liking Risk enough to get to sit next to me, but her love of the metal was real. I wasn't yet into Metallica or Iron Maiden because I wondered if they'd be too hard for my taste. Well, she turned me on to both those bands and then we tried out The Cult, Guns 'n' Roses, Megadeth, and a lot of other bands together. She bought me Mountain's "The Road Goes on Forever" for my 19th birthday. We played Fastway's first album so much on road trips, the whole album is practically "our song". She liked Sabbath for genuine reasons, all the right reasons. We've been married now, had our 30th anniversary last year.

    Point being, while the Sabs were no teenybopper-drawing band like Bon Jovi or New Kids on the Block, they certainly had a strong contingent of fans among the ladies, and they were just as true and dedicated as any others.

    Currently, there are a LOT of stoner bands with a heavy Sabbath influence in their sound that have women filling in various roles on vox or instruments. I'd count them as truefans, as well. Going back to the OP of the thread, looks like I'm in agreement with Jeff's observations, even if my evidence is just anecdotal.

    Leave a comment:


  • Billy Underdog
    replied
    Originally posted by William_the_Bloody View Post
    Now, about that tooth...
    I was at this very small fishing festival (of all things), only because it's held at a place alot of my friends come from, tent festivals are always fun, they arranged a small stage concert with a handful of bands, one being themselves having an impromptu cover band with me joining on vocals for R.A.T.M.s Bullet In The Head, and (at that time) it was always great with any excuses to party.

    Later on the night, last thing i remember is this drunken-to-stupidity guy angry about having lost his cap asking if i had it. I probably answered something stupid and provoking, being the drunken brat i was at the time. Next thing i wake up in the security office asking "what happened?".
    Then back to camp to disinfect the wound with Vodka.
    The pick is taken the morning after...

    Not an unusual scenario at a party in the boondocks of Norway. Been hit alot of times, even beaten severely, only hit once myself in self defence in an alot more serious situation...

    Leave a comment:


  • William_the_Bloody
    replied
    Giant sigh....still exhaling....still...

    Jeff: I'm not saying there aren't female Black Sabbath fans. I'm saying I haven't met any that are what *I* would call legitimate fans. I have ZERO DOUBT whatsoever that there were a legion of hangers-on in the 70's when Black Sabbath was new and fresh. I came of age in the 80's, and Black Sabbath was female repellant. They just were, and that's what *I* lived through. Black Sabbath had a resurgence in the 90's and a lot of young girls latched on once again while the fun train was blowing through town.

    You showing up and dragging this all out again after we have all finally settled down just forces me back into a defensive position again. Why? Because you didn't read what I *actually* wrote and said.

    So here I am again. How many rounds do you want to do on this?

    I mean it's really this simple: If you can't name ONE song on Sabotage, you aren't a Black Sabbath fan. Period. I've never met one female that can name one track off of Sabotage. I'm glad you've had a different experience.

    And yes, when people are filming ANYTHING in public, they will try to move good looking women into the frame. It's film-making 101. You can say "They probably didn't do that; they didn't care" but you are doing the same thing I would be doing...speculating to fit your own narrative.

    Bloody hell, this is exhausting and annoying.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jeff
    replied
    Been busy in recent days and had a lot of "catching up" here.

    It's always somewhat perplexing to me how people with a confessed lack of in-depth knowledge on a topic will still stride forward with a false narrative that is easily disproved.

    Perhaps even more bizarre is that I've actually come to believe we have a number of people who contribute to this forum where apparently this is the "end all" of their Sabbath knowledge.

    Other fan sites? "Nope." Facebook fan groups with thousands of old photos? "Eh?" Old magazine interviews? "Huh?" Bootlegs? "No clue. I think I have one ..."

    This stuff isn't down to a single factor. First of all, let's forget the modern day and videos like the one for "The End Of The Beginning." Okay? Let's go back to BEFORE things were as "canned" as they are today.

    I don't understand how anyone so committed to a band as to be on a fan forum could be so uneducated about said band. You can read Rolling Stone articles from the early 70s where they are asking girls at Sabbath concerts what the appeal of the music is. You can look at any of thousands of photos from the 70s on dedicated Sabbath fan pages via Facebook. You can listen to audience recordings made from the front of halls, back of halls ... there is SIMPLY NO EVIDENCE to support the notion that 70s Sabbath were exclusively a "guy's band."

    FTR, the notion that Don Kirshner's Rock Concert or Sabbath could have given two shits about who forced their way up front at the Santa Monica Civic in 1975 when they were filmed is when we have to all take inventory of just how far it's reasonable to stretch one's pants to fit into a personalized little narrative.

    At the beginning of this thread, I posted a picture from Sabbath's concert in Tuscon, AZ on March 16, '72. Totally random black and white shot of Tony and Ozzy in concert taken from behind stage left. The front row has chicks. Because Sabbath appealed to some chicks. Any band who was playing the arenas they were was going to draw some females, folks. The "guy's band" narrative should be attached first to certain Punk bands and Thrash bands where in a sea of 500 people it might be hard to find a single girl.

    Don't like video? It was never my intention to refer only to video. Black Sabbath live in the 70s happens to be one of my most treasured musical experiences, so I have a lot of shows. As I've said, there are shows recorded from the audience that have screaming women. They weren't The Beatles. They weren't Rod Stewart. That isn't the point. The point is that they were never Black Flag either.

    Leave a comment:


  • William_the_Bloody
    replied
    Originally posted by Billy Underdog View Post
    Ofcourse inspired by The Illusion Of Power, and damn, did we smoke some serious amounts of Ganja during the recording.




    You're talking to him as if he's actually able to use his mind in a constructive way. A waste of time. And i couldn't care less, the only thing he achieve is making a fool of himself. Again...
    Of course he is. Now, about that tooth...

    Leave a comment:


  • Billy Underdog
    replied
    Originally posted by William_the_Bloody View Post
    I like the guest rap by Snoop Dog on "Delusion and Denial" though a lot of people think it's misplaced. You gotta take chances sometimes.
    Ofcourse inspired by The Illusion Of Power, and damn, did we smoke some serious amounts of Ganja during the recording.


    Originally posted by William_the_Bloody View Post
    Seriously, that's pretty inappropriate. I would kindly invite you to remove that post, it's disrespectful to Billy and to all of us who believe in human dignity.

    Don't do it for me, don't do it for him...do it for yourself. Be of a higher mind.

    Thank you.
    You're talking to him as if he's actually able to use his mind in a constructive way. A waste of time. And i couldn't care less, the only thing he achieve is making a fool of himself. Again...

    Leave a comment:


  • William_the_Bloody
    replied
    I like the guest rap by Snoop Dog on "Delusion and Denial" though a lot of people think it's misplaced. You gotta take chances sometimes.


    Seriously, that's pretty inappropriate. I would kindly invite you to remove that post, it's disrespectful to Billy and to all of us who believe in human dignity.

    Don't do it for me, don't do it for him...do it for yourself. Be of a higher mind.

    Thank you.

    Leave a comment:


  • William_the_Bloody
    replied
    Originally posted by turch118 View Post
    First of all let me apologize to William for calling him a troll, that was uncalled for. let's end this senseless battle.
    Thank you for saying that, apology accepted, and I'm sorry for my over-the-top response to you. It's merely a matter of once you're a Ninja, you forget how to not Ninja.

    Leave a comment:


  • OzzyIsDio
    replied
    Originally posted by BACK TO EDEN View Post
    Linda , I'm glad to see your still thinking of me , your obsession for me to be other people on these boards boggles the mind (but I've grown to enjoy it , as Jack says narcissism right? must be) .... I'm not , nor have I ever been ,,,,, regardless , a more disturbing thing at this point is you feel I'm sending people here to say things on my behalf , when in fact I told people just the opposite in PM's when it came to VYN , love the guy , regardless of how wrong he was in what he did ,,,, I said say nothing , let it go .... about what Ronn did - again his content was correct , presentation wrong - but contrary to your belief I can't control what he or anyone decides to do .....

    ..... One more point for you , I have not once seen OID and RONN (are these my goons) , give William any support here? , you keep posting false information .... and I don't know why ,,, as for William - him and I have no connection on these boards , but I will say the amount of respective I've gained for this man is over the top - my goodness has he dealt with everything with the up most class while feeling like he stepped into the TWILIGHT ZONE.

    .... Again I have no problem with you Linda , it is what it is I guess , here if you ever need me.


    TURCH , you know me , you know how I feel about you , and in this case on this thread - I've done nothing but try to be exactly what you said for me to be .... and I've yet to stop ,,, mind you , I've done this without the favor being returned , I will look at myself for you ,, but I will ask you to re read this entire thread and you will find that I'm correct .... sorry to let you down , can't see how it's even possible that I did.


    BILLY , I must say , even more so than VYN , you are surprising me with your comments against me .... I'll explain why - I've never done anything to you , but show you love , and battle with you with respect as men , furthermore I explained the comment that may have upset you wasn't about you , but last and maybe most important - I don't bad mouth people in private EVER (phone , text , PM , anything) , I say what needs to be said in the open , if I get a PM against someone - I'll try to show that person's good sides ..... this brings me to my last point with you , I don't do PM's - no time ,,, so you are the person to recieve the most responses to PM's on these boards from me ever - have I ever tried to bribe you , buy your love , fulfill some narcissistic desire of appreciation from you - OR no matter what has ever happened between us (and remember in the beginning you were basically what Linda is now toward me) , I've been nothing but a friend to you - it just surprises me , that's all I'm trying to say , that you feel the way you do toward me.


    Anyway , I got some female Sabbath fans waiting to see me , so I'm out .... God Bless guys n gals!
    Very true Doc, you never have badmouthed anyone behind their back, the whole while.



    Originally posted by Sin Cardinal Sin
    This forum is accursed. Glad I left in time before I was turned into a pillar of salt.

    (No, I'm not staying.)
    Good to see you Back Sin even if you’re not staying.
    .

    Leave a comment:


  • Billy Underdog
    replied
    Originally posted by BACK TO EDEN View Post
    BILLY , I must say , even more so than VYN , you are surprising me with your comments against me .... I'll explain why - I've never done anything to you , but show you love
    If this is your way of showing love, i feel sorry for your spouse...

    There's no point in trying to yet again explain to you what you're doing to these boards (more so than to me personally, though i take ruining a community i love as a personal offence) because:

    1: You've shown you wouldn't care either way. Because:
    2. You're completly aware of what you're doing.

    Originally posted by William_the_Bloody View Post
    Now one person has decided to get all riled up, and going over some other threads I see that this is not the first time, I am not alone in being chastised, corrected, bullied by this person. This person has decided he or she is the PC police of the Black Sabbath forum. Most people here seem to tolerate it (or patronize it, hard to tell for sure which it is) but a few have called it out and fewer still seem to have developed a strong distaste for this relentless individual.

    So, it's not me. That's always the concern in a ridiculous argument of this kind...."Am *I* the nut, here?" you start to wonder after a while. I feel confident that I am not.
    Not alot of self knowledge and reflections, in other words...

    This isn't a new member just comming around to raise hell. She (or he?) was outright attacked and harrased by some members for one small thing mentioned in a by-line, and is still defending herself from that. It's not about bullying, being a PC police or not being able to let go. It's about other people not being able to let go and accept that there's persons in the world who doesn't fit the perfect A4 square they think everyone should fit.

    Once again: Don't make yourself a victim when you create your own villains. Or being the villain, even?

    Originally posted by Sin Cardinal Sin
    (No, I'm not staying.)
    GOOD. Not many who miss you.
    Last edited by Billy Underdog; 02-06-2018, 11:52 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sabbabbath
    replied
    Originally posted by William_the_Bloody View Post
    one person... he or she
    No further questions your honor.

    Leave a comment:


  • William_the_Bloody
    replied
    Thanks, BtE, for the kind words of support. This is supposed to be a place for casual conversation about Black Sabbath. If you read me from this viewpoint, and not like you're Jim Garrison studying the Zapruder film, or a Jesuit pouring over fragments of the Dead Sea Scrolls looking for embedded Kabbalah secrets, I think anyone would be able to see that I mean/meant no harm.

    Now one person has decided to get all riled up, and going over some other threads I see that this is not the first time, I am not alone in being chastised, corrected, bullied by this person. This person has decided he or she is the PC police of the Black Sabbath forum. Most people here seem to tolerate it (or patronize it, hard to tell for sure which it is) but a few have called it out and fewer still seem to have developed a strong distaste for this relentless individual.

    So, it's not me. That's always the concern in a ridiculous argument of this kind...."Am *I* the nut, here?" you start to wonder after a while. I feel confident that I am not.

    For those keeping score, I am also Christian. Not a very good one, but hey...the worse we are the more we need him, yes?

    Leave a comment:


  • Vynlsol
    replied
    Originally posted by ronn View Post
    What the fuck is wrong with you

    ...

    that was weak
    wtf
    And yet he was still wrong for using those words in that manner. I recognize you think this is all about taking sides concerning people, but that is simply not the case. It's about respect, and amazingly enough you have to give it to get it. I'm confident that the folks involved in this discussion have all reached their majority.

    Which generally presumes a certain ability to apply circumspect thoughtfulness to how one interacts with other people.

    And of ALL the people to ever walk this earth, only ONE ever walked on water, and his name was Jesus.

    Leave a comment:


  • BACK TO EDEN
    replied
    Originally posted by Sabbabbath View Post
    Everybody here, OK, let's just for a moment assume that the Doc did change his old habit of using multiple forum accounts at some point, and let us thus assume that "Ronn" is, well, a real "person" (however disturbing that may be) who is not the Doc. If we assume that, doesn't it bother anybody that there is somebody on this forum who regularly sents other members around to speak for him as messengers? Is it just normal on this forum to have vassals? And given all the God-talk around, wasn't there something in some parts of the Bible about God sending his angels to tell people his message? "Doc says this", "Doc says that"... (On the other hand, what kind of God would choose somebody like Ronn as their angel?) Just saying...

    William, I know when you see that I have written again, you will feel attempted to repeat another time that I "can't let go" of you. I can't stop myself from thinking that's a little ironic, given how much you keep writing here, but hey: looks like many people here believe that consistency is just something people eat in Norway, and that logic was just a tool invented by Christian-haters or "Social Justice Warriors" to defeat everyman.

    Anyway, what really makes me laugh is that even your (William's) strongest supporter here, who has just sent all his goons to back you up, has explicitly stated on this very thread that the content of your statements is wrong, even though he somehow likes the style in which you presented them:


    Finally, here's something to think about for those willing to do that:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublethink
    Linda , I'm glad to see your still thinking of me , your obsession for me to be other people on these boards boggles the mind (but I've grown to enjoy it , as Jack says narcissism right? must be) .... I'm not , nor have I ever been ,,,,, regardless , a more disturbing thing at this point is you feel I'm sending people here to say things on my behalf , when in fact I told people just the opposite in PM's when it came to VYN , love the guy , regardless of how wrong he was in what he did ,,,, I said say nothing , let it go .... about what Ronn did - again his content was correct , presentation wrong - but contrary to your belief I can't control what he or anyone decides to do .....

    ..... One more point for you , I have not once seen OID and RONN (are these my goons) , give William any support here? , you keep posting false information .... and I don't know why ,,, as for William - him and I have no connection on these boards , but I will say the amount of respective I've gained for this man is over the top - my goodness has he dealt with everything with the up most class while feeling like he stepped into the TWILIGHT ZONE.

    .... Again I have no problem with you Linda , it is what it is I guess , here if you ever need me.


    TURCH , you know me , you know how I feel about you , and in this case on this thread - I've done nothing but try to be exactly what you said for me to be .... and I've yet to stop ,,, mind you , I've done this without the favor being returned , I will look at myself for you ,, but I will ask you to re read this entire thread and you will find that I'm correct .... sorry to let you down , can't see how it's even possible that I did.


    BILLY , I must say , even more so than VYN , you are surprising me with your comments against me .... I'll explain why - I've never done anything to you , but show you love , and battle with you with respect as men , furthermore I explained the comment that may have upset you wasn't about you , but last and maybe most important - I don't bad mouth people in private EVER (phone , text , PM , anything) , I say what needs to be said in the open , if I get a PM against someone - I'll try to show that person's good sides ..... this brings me to my last point with you , I don't do PM's - no time ,,, so you are the person to recieve the most responses to PM's on these boards from me ever - have I ever tried to bribe you , buy your love , fulfill some narcissistic desire of appreciation from you - OR no matter what has ever happened between us (and remember in the beginning you were basically what Linda is now toward me) , I've been nothing but a friend to you - it just surprises me , that's all I'm trying to say , that you feel the way you do toward me.


    Anyway , I got some female Sabbath fans waiting to see me , so I'm out .... God Bless guys n gals!

    Leave a comment:

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