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  • Originally posted by Wheels Of Confusion View Post

    I think Ward One: Along The Way is just as good as anything the other 3 guys have done post original Sabbath.
    I like Ward One just fine, but the day that is as good as something like Heaven and Hell is the day I just assume the world has gone completely bananas.

    The main thing I struggle with about Ward One is the poor, late 80s styled production.

    I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Pink Floyd circa The Final Cut. To me, I hear more inspiration coming from that direction than Gabriel or King Crimson.

    Brilliant music but somehow doesn't quite hit it out of the park. And certainly not better than at least half a dozen post-Ozzy Sabbath albums, IMO.
    "It is not opinion that Ozzy peaked on Sabotage, it is a measurable fact."
    -WTB

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    • Originally posted by Jeff View Post
      I like Ward One just fine, but the day that is as good as something like Heaven and Hell is the day I just assume the world has gone completely bananas.

      The main thing I struggle with about Ward One is the poor, late 80s styled production.

      I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Pink Floyd circa The Final Cut. To me, I hear more inspiration coming from that direction than Gabriel or King Crimson.

      Brilliant music but somehow doesn't quite hit it out of the park. And certainly not better than at least half a dozen post-Ozzy Sabbath albums, IMO.
      Now that the back to basics album (13) has been done it would be interesting to see what impact Bill's writing would have on a future BS recording.

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      • Originally posted by mds View Post
        Now that the back to basics album (13) has been done it would be interesting to see what impact Bill's writing would have on a future BS recording.
        Keep dreaming
        Last edited by OIM; 04-29-2014, 09:02 AM.

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        • Masterbation is a form of relief...
          "Music is so sacred to me that I can’t hear wishy-washy nonsense just played for the sake of selling records."
          R. Blackmore

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          • I really like the Dark half hour..

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            • Originally posted by Wheels Of Confusion View Post
              I thought Ozzy's comments on Bill were very shitty, especially considering the abysmal performances he has turned in himself (GITM)

              I have my doubts on Bill returning, Brad Wilk and or Clufetos are probably a lot cheaper than Bill, won't want to stick their noses into the songwriting and I reckon 13's success has proved that most people don't care who the drummer is.

              I think Bill sealed his fate as soon as he started haggling over money with Sharon Osbourne.
              Spot on IMO.........

              Ozzy as a performer has not much room to criticize......You could find a singer on almost any street corner with more range, that stays in tune better........That's not to knock his place in rock history, and former talent which is undeniable. Still he would of never went anywhere without Black Sabbath, and equal gratitude is owed to Bill as well as Tony/Geezer.

              I know Bill pissed away his share many years ago, still I hope Bill has better friends than these guys.........and this is all about money...........However, I tend to think, that even outside of Black Sabbath the guy still has a ton more easy earning potential than the average American/European out there.........I can't feel too sad for the guy, but do feel disappointment in the Sabbath organization......In the end I think this diminishes public perception of how much class exists among all involved, including to a lesser degree Bill.

              Comment


              • I just came across this 2 part interview with Bill from 2005 by a jazz magazine. It's pretty interesting especially in the light of recent events.
                Part 1
                http://www.allaboutjazz.com/bill-war...1#.U2LSZtq9KSM
                Part 2
                http://www.allaboutjazz.com/bill-war...1#.U2LSPdq9KSM

                Here's an excerpt:
                But I feel like over the years that I've really tried to learn a lot about just music, period. I even went to a drum teacher for the first time. When I was 50 years-old I kind of had cap-in-hand and felt quite ashamed of myself, and I went to Roy Burns and I asked Roy if he could teach me drums. He kind of had a smile on his face and he said, "Well, you pretty much know how to play drums already, I think." And I told him I didn't consider myself to be a drummer. If anything I consider myself to be an orchestrated drummer. I define that. But, man, Roy gave me some written stuff to learn. Oh man, I found it so awkward, so hard to read. So, I'm still just on eighth notes. I'm still there, you know. He started me off on quarter notes and I moved to eighth notes and I haven't been able to move on since then.

                Even kids, little kids that I know that have just grown up into drummers, now have gone past their eighth notes and sixteenths. I mean, they do it and I'm looking at them going, "How do they do that? How do they play like that?" To me, those are real drummers. Those are proper drummers. So, for a long time there was very much of a wasteland in me because I didn't know. I thought, well, how do I categorize myself? I couldn't identify as a drummer. It's like these other guys pick it up and they seem to play in time and they seem to know all these things about drumming, and I have never been able to do that. I have no concept of what they're doing. I went to Roy Burns with all my heart and soul trying to learn how to play drums. I thought, 50 years-old, I'm going to learn how to play drums, finally. You know, I'm clueless. I'm absolutely clueless, yet I can play with a band and just feel the musicians and just play to wherever it's got to go, and that's something that just comes absolutely natural to me. So, I don't get it.
                Last edited by WallOfSleep; 05-01-2014, 05:13 PM.
                In the fields the bodies burning, as the war machine keeps turning.

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                • "I can play with a band and just feel the musicians" .... and there has NEVER been a drummer anywhere near this man's league , at doing just that! ....In fact when it came to creativity , all the true greats from that era , could in no way studio or live even come close to the creative expression of drum playing , that WARD could and did achieve!! ....not Bruford , Peart , Paice , Moon , Bonham , Mitchell , no one .... not even close in fact , sure Moon defined the instrument , but nowhere near the extreme of Ward...

                  I would say , clearly , Ward is one of the single most unique individuals in terms of expressing his instrument in a way that is more creative , then any individual at his or her particular instrument , that I have ever heard .... and in rock music it's not even a question , there's no one , guitar , bass or drums anywhere near what this man has done! .... i would even argue besides L. Subramaniam the violinist , there is no one else in music even in the discussion!

                  Funny thing , during World War 3 , as Axe put it , and everyone , including me I guess , was spewing garbage on this thread .... i read something like "Ward or drummers in general aren't as important as the vocalist , and don't fill seats or sell records" ... fn halirious those statements are! ... my goodness please stop listening to Sabbath if that's the case , for the TRUE magic of that particular era of music is lost to you....

                  Without WARD , during that time frame , sabbath as we knew it , would have never existed ... let's face it , the truest studies of Sabbath's music , by those who care and or FEEL notes , EOTB is as impeccable of a track Sabbath has ever written ... can't possibly be any better , in fact Brad is aces on this track! ...but truth be told , a 100 year old Ward in the studio , playing to Iommi , in a way only this man can and or could have , would have takin this epic piece of music 3 steps further into musical ecstacy! ... and again those who care and or feel the true essence of Sabbath's music , know EXACTLY what I'm talking of .... those who don't , never will.

                  On that debut , Ward is playing notes that Mitchell could only dream of , when you take what this man was doing at that time on THE WIZARD , not even Moon on the real me , could touch that .... it was out of nowhere unique and sensational!!

                  The mid section of HAND OF DOOM , doesn't even exist , without the patterns Mr Ward was throwing down there , yes Peart tries to duplicate such creativity on the necromancer , but it's just not possible to create the landscape that Ward gave us..

                  LORD OF THIS WORLD and THRILL OF IT ALL , with any other drummer may very well be an awesome track still none the less , but Ward defines the very essence of these 2 tracks more then any drummer could even imagine ..... LOTW is such a creative sounding 4 band mate track , next time you listen to this or THRILL OF IT ALL , pay strict attention to the drum section during the verses , and one will see the most feel is actually coming from the DRUMS , defines those tracks!

                  The entire VOL 4 album is a benchmark of HI HAT / SNARE creativity to the highest caliber! .... mid section of WHEELS is just brilliant stuff!! .... SNOWBLIND is a palate of taste all over the place in the simplest of expression .... incredible!!! ...just to name two.

                  The track SABBATH BLOODY SABBATH .... A drumming paradise!!! .... what a drum track here , wow!

                  Where Ward just takes his drum playing to the next level , TE and NSD , could very well be the most magical drum playing ever put to record ..... it's funny the notes he claims he doesn't know well , are the exact rudiments of expression that makes these 2 albums peerless!!!

                  Ward then delivers in what I feel is the foundation of rock drumming on the pinnacle sabbath release , HEAVEN N HELL ..... what he does during WALK AWAY and LONELY IS THE WORD are the things that blueprint why drums can be FAR MORE than a rhythm section!

                  DISTURBING THE PRIEST is flavor , complete and utter flavor , the man paints a picture with the drum kit .... just awesome playing! .... even PSYCHO MAN and WHO'S FOOLING WHO benefit tremendously from Wards playing , who's fooling who I always use as a display of what I call splash drumming , using the instrument to accent the guitar notes , it is truly quite breathtaking.


                  Ward on the drums , equals music at its highest caliber ... and a hope for unmatched creativity , that is never left behind....

                  God bless
                  Last edited by BACK TO EDEN; 05-01-2014, 08:17 PM. Reason: love ward!!!!

                  Comment


                  • I agree Ward is my all time favourite drummer. He was the soul of their sound from BS to Sabotage. When I listen to a lot of the classic songs my attention gravitates to Bill.

                    TE and NSD were good but the rhythm section was second to the guitar and vocals. Maybe that was the mixing

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by BACK TO EDEN View Post
                      "I can play with a band and just feel the musicians" .... and there has NEVER been a drummer anywhere near this man's league , at doing just that! ....In fact when it came to creativity , all the true greats from that era , could in no way studio or live even come close to the creative expression of drum playing , that WARD could and did achieve!! ....not Bruford , Peart , Paice , Moon , Bonham , Mitchell , no one .... not even close in fact , sure Moon defined the instrument , but nowhere near the extreme of Ward...

                      I would say , clearly , Ward is one of the single most unique individuals in terms of expressing his instrument in a way that is more creative , then any individual at his or her particular instrument , that I have ever heard .... and in rock music it's not even a question , there's no one , guitar , bass or drums anywhere near what this man has done! .... i would even argue besides L. Subramaniam the violinist , there is no one else in music even in the discussion!

                      Funny thing , during World War 3 , as Axe put it , and everyone , including me I guess , was spewing garbage on this thread .... i read something like "Ward or drummers in general aren't as important as the vocalist , and don't fill seats or sell records" ... fn halirious those statements are! ... my goodness please stop listening to Sabbath if that's the case , for the TRUE magic of that particular era of music is lost to you....

                      Without WARD , during that time frame , sabbath as we knew it , would have never existed ... let's face it , the truest studies of Sabbath's music , by those who care and or FEEL notes , EOTB is as impeccable of a track Sabbath has ever written ... can't possibly be any better , in fact Brad is aces on this track! ...but truth be told , a 100 year old Ward in the studio , playing to Iommi , in a way only this man can and or could have , would have takin this epic piece of music 3 steps further into musical ecstacy! ... and again those who care and or feel the true essence of Sabbath's music , know EXACTLY what I'm talking of .... those who don't , never will.

                      On that debut , Ward is playing notes that Mitchell could only dream of , when you take what this man was doing at that time on THE WIZARD , not even Moon on the real me , could touch that .... it was out of nowhere unique and sensational!!

                      The mid section of HAND OF DOOM , doesn't even exist , without the patterns Mr Ward was throwing down there , yes Peart tries to duplicate such creativity on the necromancer , but it's just not possible to create the landscape that Ward gave us..

                      LORD OF THIS WORLD and THRILL OF IT ALL , with any other drummer may very well be an awesome track still none the less , but Ward defines the very essence of these 2 tracks more then any drummer could even imagine ..... LOTW is such a creative sounding 4 band mate track , next time you listen to this or THRILL OF IT ALL , pay strict attention to the drum section during the verses , and one will see the most feel is actually coming from the DRUMS , defines those tracks!

                      The entire VOL 4 album is a benchmark of HI HAT / SNARE creativity to the highest caliber! .... mid section of WHEELS is just brilliant stuff!! .... SNOWBLIND is a palate of taste all over the place in the simplest of expression .... incredible!!! ...just to name two.

                      The track SABBATH BLOODY SABBATH .... A drumming paradise!!! .... what a drum track here , wow!

                      Where Ward just takes his drum playing to the next level , TE and NSD , could very well be the most magical drum playing ever put to record ..... it's funny the notes he claims he doesn't know well , are the exact rudiments of expression that makes these 2 albums peerless!!!

                      Ward then delivers in what I feel is the foundation of rock drumming on the pinnacle sabbath release , HEAVEN N HELL ..... what he does during WALK AWAY and LONELY IS THE WORD are the things that blueprint why drums can be FAR MORE than a rhythm section!

                      DISTURBING THE PRIEST is flavor , complete and utter flavor , the man paints a picture with the drum kit .... just awesome playing! .... even PSYCHO MAN and WHO'S FOOLING WHO benefit tremendously from Wards playing , who's fooling who I always use as a display of what I call splash drumming , using the instrument to accent the guitar notes , it is truly quite breathtaking.


                      Ward on the drums , equals music at its highest caliber ... and a hope for unmatched creativity , that is never left behind....

                      God bless
                      Doc, nice tribute to Mr. Bill Ward. There may be some skirmishes regarding the current situation, but there is no doubt that Bill was a key contributor to the birth and success of Black Sabbath. For me, the magic of Osbourne + Iommi + Butler + Ward can never be matched.

                      Comment


                      • I agree with you Doc. Even though Bill has fallen from the Sabbath tree, he still deserves a place in history with the other great drummers of rock. He was certainly one of the noteable drummers of his day.
                        Last edited by Now in Darkness; 05-03-2014, 04:01 PM.
                        Casting his shadow, weaving his spell, funny clothes, tinkling bell.

                        Comment


                        • I love Bill. I love his drumming. But I'm not a fan of his solo stuff. Sorry! Just don't care for it. Do I think he will ever work with Sabbath again? Yeah I do. At least I hope he does.

                          Comment


                          • It seems that we haven't had anything really new and exciting on this forum for a long time, things seem to go round and round the same cycle where people keep spewing endless speculations and unlimited fantasies about the seemingly endless opportunities of the future and restless opinions of who is the better singer and drummer etc.

                            The summer is about the begin. Last night I experienced a great show by Viikate, they played many Motörhead classics as well. The summer holds many great shows, Pentagram with Victor Griffin in Tampere, Bloodride here in Seinäjoki, One Night in Asa Bay (Tribute to Bathory) in Jyväskylä, W.A.S.P. and Europe in Tampere, ZZ Top in Helsinki (maybe their last tour), Iced Earth at Nummirock, then at Jalometalli Festival they have King Diamond, Testament, Triptykon, Loudness, Dark Angel, Sacred Reich...

                            It's time to live the life in rock more and spend less time talking about what could be and should be.

                            See you in the autumn. Hopefully we will have something really new and exciting going on by then.
                            "He is the King of all kings, the keeper of light...He holds eternity's wings"

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                            • Great post back to Eden.

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                              • Originally posted by The Sabman Cometh View Post
                                Doc, nice tribute to Mr. Bill Ward. There may be some skirmishes regarding the current situation, but there is no doubt that Bill was a key contributor to the birth and success of Black Sabbath. For me, the magic of Osbourne + Iommi + Butler + Ward can never be matched.
                                As a drummer myself who first began drumming because of Bill Ward, I'm very well-versed in the history of the evolution of the drums from the 60's/70's, when they really began to form into what we know ... anyone who doesn't know of the 70's Sabbath powerhouse that was their rhythm section would be sore indeed to forget about Ward and how important he was. He and Geezer combined were unlike anything that we've heard before or since ... absolutely the most important part of the structure that made Tony Iommi as successful as he was. Ozzy be damned, in all reality.
                                How could this poison be the dream of my soul
                                How did my fantasies take complete control, yeah

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