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"The End" setlist speculation... with stats!

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  • "The End" setlist speculation... with stats!

    Tony said they want to bring out some rarer songs in addition to the fan favorites.

    Well, what really qualifies as rare?

    I've gone through and looked at the songs they've played since the reunion started, finding out which songs are due for a comeback, which songs are likely to get dropped and which songs are going to be around to the very end. I'm ignoring things like instrumentals (Orchid, Embryo, etc) since they're usually paired to another song or not played at all. I'm also ignoring 13 since it's only been around for one tour.

    Songs that are always on the set:
    Black Sabbath
    War Pigs
    Paranoid
    Iron Man
    Children of the Grave
    Into the Void

    We all know these songs will be on the End setlist.

    Songs that have been on almost every set:
    N.I.B.
    Fairies Wear Boots
    Snowblind

    N.I.B and Snowblind weren't regulars in 1997, although they were played, but have been on the set from 1998 onwards. Fairies was only played at two dates in 2001 but aside from that has been steady.

    These three are extremely likely to be on the End set as well.

    Songs that have been on several sets
    Dirty Women
    Sweet Leaf
    Electric Funeral

    Dirty Women was a staple of the 13 tour and was also played during Ozzfest 2005 and the 1999 tour. Aside from the instrumental at Ozzfest 2005, Sweet Leaf hasn't been a staple of the set since 1999, only making sporadic appearances in 2004 and 2012. Electric Funeral was played during 2012 and 2013 but was dropped early in the 13 tour.

    Songs that are only on a few sets
    The Wizard
    Behind the Wall of Sleep
    After Forever
    Lord of this World
    Under the Sun
    Spiral Architect

    The Wizard was popular in 2001 and 2005 and was played in 2012 as well. Behind the Wall of Sleep was played at a few dates in 1997 before reappearing 15 years later in 2012, hanging around for the 13 tour. Under the Sun was played briefly in 2001 (the same two dates where Fairies Wear Boots was played) before coming back in 2012. Lord of this World was only a staple in 1998 and hasn't been heard from since, as was Spiral Architect. After Forever was played on the 1999 and 2005 tours.

    Songs that have only been played sporadically
    Sleeping Village
    Wheels of Confusion
    Tomorrow's Dream
    Supernaut
    Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
    Killing Yourself to Live
    Symptom of the Universe

    Sleeping Village was played as an intro to Children of the Grave at Ozzfest 2005, replacing Embryo. Wheels of Confusion and Tomorrow's Dream were played in 2012 but were left off the 13 tour. Supernaut and Symptom of the Universe have been played as instrumentals at various times, including the 13 tour. Sabbath Bloody Sabbath was played in the late 90s but it was never a mainstay due to Ozzy's vocal struggles and now exists only as an intro to Paranoid. Killing Yourself to Live was played once in 1998 (Ozzy handled it surprisingly well).

    Songs that never left the 70s
    Wicked World
    Warning
    Evil Woman
    Planet Caravan
    Hand of Doom
    Changes
    Cornucopia
    A National Acrobat
    Sabbra Cadabra
    Hole in the Sky
    Megalomania
    Back Street Kids
    Gypsy
    All Moving Parts
    Rock N' Roll Doctor
    Never Say Die

    Wicked World was a jam centerpiece of many early sets. Warning and Evil Woman were played very early on only. Hand of Doom was common on early sets but Planet Caravan was played only once. Changes was very rare as well. Cornucopia appeared on a few tours in the mid 70s. A National Acrobat was very rare but Sabbra Cadabra was on a few tours. Hole in the Sky and Megalomania never made it past the Sabotage tour. Back Street Kids and All Moving Parts didn't get so much play but Gypsy and Rock N' Roll Doctor were popular in the end days. Never Say Die was naturally only on the Never Say Die tour.

    Songs that were never played... ever
    Solitude
    St. Vitus Dance
    Who Are You?
    Looking For Today
    Thrill of it All
    Am I Going Insane?
    The Writ
    You Won't Change Me
    She's Gone (I assume)
    The rest of Never Say Die

    A lot of these are no surprises, although I'd have thought they'd play more than one NSD song on the tour.

    So what does it all mean?

    Well, assuming Sabbath structures their set (90~ minutes of songs plus an instrumental/drum solo), which I think is likely considering how well it worked,

    This is my guess at the set (out of order):

    Black Sabbath
    The Wizard
    N.I.B.
    War Pigs
    Paranoid
    Iron Man
    Electric Funeral
    Hand of Doom
    Fairies Wear Boots
    Sweet Leaf
    Children of the Grave
    Into the Void
    Tomorrow's Dream
    Snowblind
    God Is Dead

    This is pretty conservative, which I think makes it more likely. The only real stunner is Hand of Doom which would be making its first live appearance in 45 years or so. It and Planet Caravan are the only songs off Paranoid they haven't played since they reunited so I think it's overdue. Everything else was performed at the O2 Academy show, save for God Is Dead, but didn't make it to the actual tour. They might play more 13 songs or different songs from that album but I have a feeling they'll keep it to their big new single and save the rest of the set for the old stuff.

    Well thats my guess anyway. What about you guys?

  • #2
    Originally posted by 62_SG View Post
    This is my guess at the set (out of order):

    Black Sabbath
    The Wizard
    N.I.B.
    War Pigs
    Paranoid
    Iron Man
    Electric Funeral
    Hand of Doom
    Fairies Wear Boots
    Sweet Leaf
    Children of the Grave
    Into the Void
    Tomorrow's Dream
    Snowblind
    God Is Dead

    This is pretty conservative, which I think makes it more likely. The only real stunner is Hand of Doom which would be making its first live appearance in 45 years or so. It and Planet Caravan are the only songs off Paranoid they haven't played since they reunited so I think it's overdue. Everything else was performed at the O2 Academy show, save for God Is Dead, but didn't make it to the actual tour. They might play more 13 songs or different songs from that album but I have a feeling they'll keep it to their big new single and save the rest of the set for the old stuff.

    Well thats my guess anyway. What about you guys?
    I think your list is very likely except for Hand Of Doom. That's actually my all-time favorite Sabbath song and in large part because it's one of Ozzy's best vocal deliveries ever. But there's no way he could do it now. Those high notes are way out of his live range and I'm afraid he'd sound awful if he tried.

    Tomorrow's Dream is another with some high notes that would be shaky, but I could see them at least trying it for a few shows.

    Spiral Architect is one I think they might give another go at. Ozzy did ok with it on Reunion, but again, that was 15 years ago.

    I just don't see many candidates for surprise songs that Ozzy wouldn't struggle with. And to be honest, I'd be happy enough if they played snippets of those rarities in an extended instrumental medley. Like a 10-15 minute band jam and let Ozzy rest backstage. That would be awesome IMO.

    And I think it's a certainty they'll play "End Of The Beginning" since it fits the tour theme perfectly. Probably 1 or 2 others off 13 as well.
    Last edited by MikeTX; 09-11-2015, 02:34 PM.

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    • #3
      I wonder why they never play Wicked World. It's quite an easy take on vocals, imho.
      http://vk.com/barghestboots

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      • #4
        Originally posted by MikeTX View Post
        I think your list is very likely except for Hand Of Doom. That's actually my all-time favorite Sabbath song and in large part because it's one of Ozzy's best vocal deliveries ever. But there's no way he could do it now. Those high notes are way out of his live range and I'm afraid he'd sound awful if he tried.

        Tomorrow's Dream is another with some high notes that would be shaky, but I could see them at least trying it for a few shows.

        Spiral Architect is one I think they might give another go at. Ozzy did ok with it on Reunion, but again, that was 15 years ago.

        I just don't see many candidates for surprise songs that Ozzy wouldn't struggle with. And to be honest, I'd be happy enough if they played snippets of those rarities in an extended instrumental medley. Like a 10-15 minute band jam and let Ozzy rest backstage. That would be awesome IMO.

        And I think it's a certainty they'll play "End Of The Beginning" since it fits the tour theme perfectly. Probably 1 or 2 others off 13 as well.
        I don't think Hand of Doom is too high for Ozzy. It doesn't have any of those huge high notes from later albums. They'd tune it down a step like everything else off Paranoid, or maybe even a step and a half like they do with Dirty Women, and he'd handle it fine.

        Tomorrow's Dream was played in 2012 and Ozzy handled it pretty well. Unlike Wheels of Confusion, which was dropped after the O2, they kept Tomorrow's Dream in for all three dates in 2012 so I think he's as comfortable with it as he could be.

        I think Spiral Architect is too much for Ozzy. Not because of high notes but because you need a lot of air to sing it. He'd get halfway through the chorus and be gasping. It's the same thing with Symptom of the Universe. The band could effortlessly drop Symptom two steps down but even with the highs out of the way Ozzy just doesn't have it in him to push that much air.

        I didn't even think of End of the Beginning. Thats a very likely choice. They might even open the show with that (but I think Black Sabbath is the most obvious choice).

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        • #5
          Hi. New guy here.

          Who knows what songs they'll add that weren't played on the "13" tour.

          Here's my top five hopefuls.

          1. Sweet Leaf
          2. After Forever
          3. The Wizard
          4. Hand Of Doom
          5. Hole In The Sky
          Last edited by Leaf Forever; 09-11-2015, 03:26 PM.
          "I can't fucking hear you!"

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Leaf Forever View Post
            Hi. New guy here.

            Who knows what songs they'll add that weren't played on the "13" tour.

            Here's my top five hopefuls.

            1. Sweet Leaf
            2. After Forever
            3. The Wizard
            4. Hand Of Doom
            5. Hole In The Sky
            Those are some fine choices.
            Welcome aboard !
            Nobody I know is gonna take my rock & roll away from me.

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            • #7
              My ideal setlist would be:

              1.War Pigs
              2.Into the Void
              3.Under the Sun/Everyday Comes and Goes
              4.Electric Funeral
              5.Snowblind
              6.Loner
              7.End of the Beginning
              8.Black Sabbath
              9.N.I.B
              10.Lord of this World
              11.Wicked World
              12.Sweet Leaf
              13.Fairies Wear Boots
              14.Symptom of the Universe instrumental/Supernaut/Drum Solo
              15.Cornucopia
              16.Iron Man
              17.Children of the Grave
              18.Paranoid(Sabbath Bloody Sabbath Intro)

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              • #8
                Originally posted by BlackSabbath89 View Post
                My ideal setlist would be:

                1.War Pigs
                2.Into the Void
                3.Under the Sun/Everyday Comes and Goes
                4.Electric Funeral
                5.Snowblind
                6.Loner
                7.End of the Beginning
                8.Black Sabbath
                9.N.I.B
                10.Lord of this World
                11.Wicked World
                12.Sweet Leaf
                13.Fairies Wear Boots
                14.Symptom of the Universe instrumental/Supernaut/Drum Solo
                15.Cornucopia
                16.Iron Man
                17.Children of the Grave
                18.Paranoid(Sabbath Bloody Sabbath Intro)
                Thats a strong & achievable setlist you've got there. I'd substitute Tomorrow's Dream for Electric Funeral & maybe Live Forever instead of Loner, also Hand of Doom for Cornucopia.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by BlackSabbath89 View Post
                  My ideal setlist would be:

                  1.War Pigs
                  2.Into the Void
                  3.Under the Sun/Everyday Comes and Goes
                  4.Electric Funeral
                  5.Snowblind
                  6.Loner
                  7.End of the Beginning
                  8.Black Sabbath
                  9.N.I.B
                  10.Lord of this World
                  11.Wicked World
                  12.Sweet Leaf
                  13.Fairies Wear Boots
                  14.Symptom of the Universe instrumental/Supernaut/Drum Solo
                  15.Cornucopia
                  16.Iron Man
                  17.Children of the Grave
                  18.Paranoid(Sabbath Bloody Sabbath Intro)
                  Thats pretty near perfect. It might be a little too long but definitely still realistic.

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                  • #10
                    I just want them to play whatever Ozzy has the best chance of singing well.

                    I see no point in them playing Sabbra Cadabra or whatever if the Ozzman can't do it anymore.

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                    • #11
                      Its almost impossible for Ozzy to pull anything from SBS or Sabotage these days ! the band mentioned before that it's too difficult to sing and even Ozzy said he would probably get his brains blown out when Zakk once suggested doing 'Hole In the Sky' live with the solo band ! can Ozzy pull off a song like 'Spiral Architect' on the set ? most likely not , and even if he does it will probably blow his voice for the rest of the (and maybe tour as well). That can be said to other classics that features quite high notes like 'Supernaut' for instance.

                      So its safe to say that the band will probably feature more songs from the first 4 and the last 2 albums more on the next tour , to be more practical and realistic , these are the songs which I believe will be highly considered for the next tour :

                      - Wicked World
                      - Hand Of Doom (there are some high notes on this one , but remember the original was recorded in standard E key , down tuning it to D or C# might make it work ! its one of Geezer's favorites as well !)
                      - Sweet Leaf (haven't been played on the last '13' tour)
                      - After Forever
                      - Orchid/Lord Of This World (Ozzy might struggle a bit with this one though)
                      - Tomorrow's Dream (They played this classic twice in 2012 , its quite short as well and could fit in nicely with the rest of the set)
                      - Cornucopia (rarely played , they tried it a couple of times on the reunion shows in 2001 , it really sounded great and heavy as hell ! Ozzy can pull this off easily as well)
                      - Back Street Kids
                      - Never Say Die
                      - Johnny Blade
                      - Junior Eyes

                      Apart from that list , I would personally love to see the band give it a go with 'Wheels Of Confusion' , they only played it once since 2012 and Ozzy was way off key ( by the way that was song that led the band to try an even lower tuning at C !) , they did play a couple of songs in that key on the earlier dates before switching them back to their original C# tuning.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by IRON-MaN View Post
                        even Ozzy said he would probably get his brains blown out when Zakk once suggested doing 'Hole In the Sky' live with the solo band !.
                        Thats so interesting! I never knew Zakk suggested it. You've always got the coolest factoids.

                        Originally posted by IRON-MaN View Post
                        Apart from that list , I would personally love to see the band give it a go with 'Wheels Of Confusion' , they only played it once since 2012 and Ozzy was way off key ( by the way that was song that led the band to try an even lower tuning at C !) , they did play a couple of songs in that key on the earlier dates before switching them back to their original C# tuning.
                        So did the band go back to C# for Snowblind, Under the Sun, etc later in the tour?

                        It's a real shame they didn't play The Straightener when they did Wheels of Confusion, especially when they have Adam Wakeman who can back up on guitar.
                        Last edited by 62_SG; 09-12-2015, 06:54 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 62_SG View Post
                          Thats so interesting! I never knew Zakk suggested it. You've always got the coolest factoids.



                          So did the band go back to C# for Snowblind, Under the Sun, etc later in the tour?

                          It's a real shame they didn't play The Straightener when they did Wheels of Confusion, especially when they have Adam Wakeman who can back up on guitar.

                          Here are the exact quote from Zakk a long time ago :

                          "We're doing 'Here For You', 'I Don't Wanna Stop', and 'Not Going Away'. When you've got an artist and their catalog is that huge and massive, you gotta play the hits, the ones everyone is going to see. They wanna hear 'I Don't Know', 'Mr. Crowley', 'No More Tears', 'Mama', 'Bark At the Moon', you know, the Jake (E. Lee) stuff, all the Randy (Rhoads) stuff. Then you've gotta figure out what Ozz'll look at and go, 'I can't sing that one anymore. Can't sing this one. That one I can definitely do.' You gotta remember, Ozz is like 58 years old. And you're lookin' at dog years, so he's basically 562 years old. I remember saying, 'Ozz, why don't we do 'Hole in the Sky' or something like that?' and he goes, 'What are you trying to do? Are you trying to kill me? We'll do it once and my head'll explode.' So, needless to say, we're not doing 'Hole in the Sky'."

                          On the early '13' tour dates (specifically Australia /NZ) dates Black Sabbath were playing Into The Void , Under The Sun , Snow blind , Dirty Women and Children of the Grave all in C tuning , a couple of dates into the Australian tour and they switched Dirty Women and Children Of The Grave back to C# while Into the Void , Under the Sun and Snow Blind stayed in C for the rest of the tour.

                          Back to topic , one of the songs that I would REALLY love the band to see do live is 'Planet Caravan' (with an extended Iommi solo at the end) , I think one of the main reasons why they never did any of their ballad oriented songs like Caravan and Solitude is to keep the pace and build of their set-list , I honestly think any of these songs will definitely add a more tasteful lighter shade to their extremely heavy set.
                          Last edited by IRON-MaN; 09-12-2015, 07:18 AM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by IRON-MaN View Post
                            Here are the exact quote from Zakk a long time ago :

                            "We're doing 'Here For You', 'I Don't Wanna Stop', and 'Not Going Away'. When you've got an artist and their catalog is that huge and massive, you gotta play the hits, the ones everyone is going to see. They wanna hear 'I Don't Know', 'Mr. Crowley', 'No More Tears', 'Mama', 'Bark At the Moon', you know, the Jake (E. Lee) stuff, all the Randy (Rhoads) stuff. Then you've gotta figure out what Ozz'll look at and go, 'I can't sing that one anymore. Can't sing this one. That one I can definitely do.' You gotta remember, Ozz is like 58 years old. And you're lookin' at dog years, so he's basically 562 years old. I remember saying, 'Ozz, why don't we do 'Hole in the Sky' or something like that?' and he goes, 'What are you trying to do? Are you trying to kill me? We'll do it once and my head'll explode.' So, needless to say, we're not doing 'Hole in the Sky'."

                            On the early '13' tour dates (specifically Australia /NZ) dates Black Sabbath were playing Into The Void , Under The Sun , Snow blind , Dirty Women and Children of the Grave all in C tuning , a couple of dates into the Australian tour and they switched Dirty Women and Children Of The Grave back to C# while Into the Void , Under the Sun and Snow Blind stayed in C for the rest of the tour.

                            Back to topic , one of the songs that I would REALLY love the band to see do live is 'Planet Caravan' (with an extended Iommi solo at the end) , I think one of the main reasons why they never did any of their ballad oriented songs like Caravan and Solitude is to keep the pace and build of their set-list , I honestly think any of these songs will definitely add a more tasteful lighter shade to their extremely heavy set.

                            "You gotta remember, Ozz is like 58 years old. And you're lookin' at dog years, so he's basically 562 years old."

                            I love Zakk lol.

                            I remember that now, they were doing all of their C# songs in C for a little while. It's funny that Children of the Grave is the one old song on the whole tour they played in its original key.

                            Planet Caravan would be neat but I think the vocals is what holds it back. They're so heavily modulated that hearing Ozzy sing them live would sound bizarre. I'd rather hear them do a verse of Solitude as an intro to Into the Void.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by 62_SG View Post
                              "You gotta remember, Ozz is like 58 years old. And you're lookin' at dog years, so he's basically 562 years old."

                              I love Zakk lol.

                              I remember that now, they were doing all of their C# songs in C for a little while. It's funny that Children of the Grave is the one old song on the whole tour they played in its original key.

                              Planet Caravan would be neat but I think the vocals is what holds it back. They're so heavily modulated that hearing Ozzy sing them live would sound bizarre. I'd rather hear them do a verse of Solitude as an intro to Into the Void.
                              Well they also played all the new '13' songs in their original keys as well ! Eb (and that's why Ozzy struggled most of the time with them all !)

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