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Hand of Doom has been dropped

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  • #46
    Originally posted by OzzyIsDio View Post
    I love Speak Of The Devil and still lap it up, I treasure this album.

    Because of it I got turned onto Sabbath and am grateful for this big influence of an album on me.
    great album cover but ozzys vocals were so multitracked and the guitar never stood up to the originals or did the songs any justice. That's just my opinion though

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by OzzyIsDio View Post
      I love Speak Of The Devil and still lap it up, I treasure this album.

      Because of it I got turned onto Sabbath and am grateful for this big influence of an album on me.
      I know you owe that album a lot, brother.

      And the fact that it helped you get into Sabbath is all that matters.

      It's just that, to me (strictly my own experience) the album is one of the biggest wankfests I've ever heard. I found it depressing when it came out. So much so that I pretty much stopped following Ozzy's solo career.

      Part of what makes Sabbath magical is an ability to let ideas breath when required. As much as I admired Ronnie James Dio, he could probably be accused of not understanding that when it came to tackling Ozzy-era material with Sabbath either, but for some reason I find him far more sincere. He was attempting to really make the songs work within the context of what Sabbath had become in the early 80s. I realize Ozzy was probably trying to do the same, but I think it was an epic fail because all three instrumentalists (guitar, bass, drums) are just overplaying all the freaking time. Add to that the most UN-live sounding live vocals I've ever heard on a rock record and the whole thing came off like one of the biggest "cash-in" attempts of all time. He got that thing out before Live Evil and I always thought it was a move far more about him not being able to accept Sabbath w/o him and feeding the "Dio vs. Ozzy" thing than a true attempt to respect the Sabbath legacy. Shame, because the setlist was great.

      Maybe one day I'll be able to hear it with different ears, but those songs are just too close to my heart to listen to them in that way. I'd rather listen to even the very worst sounding 70s bootleg and hear the real deal than that album. And fortunately there are plenty of really good bootlegs out there anyway.
      Last edited by Jeff; 01-24-2017, 04:02 PM.
      "It is not opinion that Ozzy peaked on Sabotage, it is a measurable fact."
      -WTB

      Comment


      • #48
        Yep SoTD still continues to divide fans.
        I was a 17yr old Ozzy fanatic in '82 and I personally prefered it over Live Evil without a doubt. LE sounded pretty boring to me, wheres SoTD sounded exciting. I know it sounds different compared to Sabbaths versions but I just loved the energy of the record, I didnt really care how it was created, live or in the studio, when I put the album on I enjoyed listening to it, and Ozzy's in between song banter was great, far better than "I can't fucking hear you" between every song like he does now.
        I saw Ozzy live in December 1982, and although he looked a prat with his recently shaved head and chainmail outfit, it was actually one of the best Ozzy gigs I've been to, brilliant. Great memories.
        Do you believe a word what the good book says?
        Or is it just a holy fairytale and God is Dead?

        Comment


        • #49
          With the return of HOD and the re-addition of UTS, it's a solid enough set for their last few shows at senior citizen age. If they film the final show(s), I would love to see them slot in "Age Of Reason" since it was a highlight of the 13 tour, but not included in that tour's dvd release.

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          • #50
            I wish people could understand that a song needn't be technically perfect. What is so bad about Ozzy being off key or sounding a bit hoarse? Now, if it is physically painful for him to sing the song, then I completely understand, but I don't understand why everything has to be "perfect".
            You tried to suppress me
            But nothing holds me down
            Just when you think you're happy
            I come around

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Fozzy View Post
              Yep SoTD still continues to divide fans.
              I was a 17yr old Ozzy fanatic in '82 and I personally prefered it over Live Evil without a doubt. LE sounded pretty boring to me, wheres SoTD sounded exciting. I know it sounds different compared to Sabbaths versions but I just loved the energy of the record, I didnt really care how it was created, live or in the studio, when I put the album on I enjoyed listening to it, and Ozzy's in between song banter was great, far better than "I can't fucking hear you" between every song like he does now.
              I saw Ozzy live in December 1982, and although he looked a prat with his recently shaved head and chainmail outfit, it was actually one of the best Ozzy gigs I've been to, brilliant. Great memories.
              I was a huge Oz fan in those days and my second concert was TDoaM tour with Randy but SOTD was kind of a mess, Brad just doesn't sound good an we were tripped out to hear Ozzy attempt songs that he didn't even play that often with Sabbath. (Up intil the recent tours FWB was not a set list staple that I knew of.)

              I did spend HOURS decoding the runes on the album cover, that was a blast.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by MikeTX View Post
                With the return of HOD and the re-addition of UTS, it's a solid enough set for their last few shows at senior citizen age. If they film the final show(s), I would love to see them slot in "Age Of Reason" since it was a highlight of the 13 tour, but not included in that tour's dvd release.
                Good point, Age of Reason was definatley a 13 Tour highlight for me, great song, and done well live.
                If they do release a live DVD from the last Birmingham date it would be great to have a few tracks on there that are not on any other releases.
                Do you believe a word what the good book says?
                Or is it just a holy fairytale and God is Dead?

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Iron Wizard View Post
                  I wish people could understand that a song needn't be technically perfect. What is so bad about Ozzy being off key or sounding a bit hoarse? Now, if it is physically painful for him to sing the song, then I completely understand, but I don't understand why everything has to be "perfect".
                  An excellent point, and I would add that lyrics are not necessarily essential either.

                  For a case in point, listen to the Costa Mesa shows in 1992. After Symptom of the Universe, you can hear the incredible reaction of the crowd when they segue into the "woman child of love's creation" acoustic bit. It was TOTALLY unexpected. And the fact that Halford sang was an added bonus. Even if he hadn't, it still would have been magical. I remember having this feeling of "I can't believe they played that", and I was only listening to the bootleg....

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by From Beyond View Post
                    I was a huge Oz fan in those days and my second concert was TDoaM tour with Randy but SOTD was kind of a mess, Brad just doesn't sound good an we were tripped out to hear Ozzy attempt songs that he didn't even play that often with Sabbath. (Up intil the recent tours FWB was not a set list staple that I knew of.)

                    I did spend HOURS decoding the runes on the album cover, that was a blast.
                    FWB was play constantly through '72, then reappeared for some shows in '78.
                    "It is not opinion that Ozzy peaked on Sabotage, it is a measurable fact."
                    -WTB

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Fozzy View Post
                      Yep SoTD still continues to divide fans.
                      I was a 17yr old Ozzy fanatic in '82 and I personally prefered it over Live Evil without a doubt. LE sounded pretty boring to me, wheres SoTD sounded exciting. I know it sounds different compared to Sabbaths versions but I just loved the energy of the record, I didnt really care how it was created, live or in the studio, when I put the album on I enjoyed listening to it, and Ozzy's in between song banter was great, far better than "I can't fucking hear you" between every song like he does now.
                      I saw Ozzy live in December 1982, and although he looked a prat with his recently shaved head and chainmail outfit, it was actually one of the best Ozzy gigs I've been to, brilliant. Great memories.
                      I don't know ... I mean, I'm not a great fan of Live Evil, but if "Neon Knights" kicks in and you find yourself "bored" I might suggest a stronger coffee. "Children Of The Sea"!!!? Holy MOLY!!!!

                      It took what seemed like FOREVER to come out and when it finally did I suppose I was pretty happy, though looking at it now they really didn't do a very good job of capturing just how off the charts great that band was. It was good, but should have been great. Too much studio work on it. And Vinnie Appice somehow wasn't quite in the mix the way I think he could have been.
                      "It is not opinion that Ozzy peaked on Sabotage, it is a measurable fact."
                      -WTB

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        I find myself nodding in agreement with a lot of what Jeff says. SotD is a love it or hate it album, it seems, and I remember trying real hard to get into it, but it just didn't do it for me. On Live Evil, I totally got into all the Dio-era stuff and was all "WTF?" with Dio doing the Ozzy-era hits. Just didn't work out as well as we'd all hoped. Heaven and Hell's live album is much better product since Dio gets to do Dio-only tracks, and they are totally suited for his voice and style. He's just too dramatic for the way Ozzy delivered the material.

                        That being said, I wasn't all that jazzed with the Sabbath live bootlegs from the 70s. They had some real rockers, but "I'm So Happy" was a trippy instrumental go-to Too. Many. Times. Half the time, I could have spliced the instrumental noodling with a Grateful Dead gig and nobody would be the wiser. I think the Sabs and the Dead were doing the same drugs around that time.

                        But back to the setlist... these Gramps with Amps acts have to be careful they don't forget the hits because there are TONS of people there to hear the hits and only the hits, as they remember them. If they're going to get panned by a few die-hards for not including "The Writ", they'll take those lumps instead of the ones they'd surely get for dropping one of those "Must Play" songs. And when they do go outside the comfort zone, there are tons of fans ready to second guess them - "Why didn't they play (X) instead of (Y)? Buncha sellouts!" (or whatever)

                        Imagine if the band had decided to freshen things up and play only songs that weren't heavy on previous setlists? People would hear the concert and then riot because they didn't get "Iron Man" or "Paranoid". It's the same dilemma with recording a new album. Everyone wants the band to take chances and explore new ideas, so long as it sounds exactly like the stuff they did on the last album.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by zzzptm View Post

                          That being said, I wasn't all that jazzed with the Sabbath live bootlegs from the 70s. They had some real rockers, but "I'm So Happy" was a trippy instrumental go-to Too. Many. Times. Half the time, I could have spliced the instrumental noodling with a Grateful Dead gig and nobody would be the wiser. I think the Sabs and the Dead were doing the same drugs around that time.
                          IMO, this is a stretch of fairly epic proportion.

                          Sabbath certainly did some "jamming/soloing" in the 70s, but by '72 and on it typically only comprised maybe about 15 minutes in a roughly 80-100 minute set.

                          Even compared to more appropriate comparisons like Deep Purple or Led Zeppelin, the Sabs kept their musical arrangements very tight and songs were played similarly to how they were recorded. Bill was probably most prone to improvisation, but it was kept within the basic song structures. Tony would embellish, as would Geezer, but again, not in terms of turning "War Pigs" from 8 minutes into 18.

                          I, for one, wish for the days when we'd get a "Wicked World" or "Sabbra Cadabra" stretched out with some improvisations and experiments. That stuff could be magical. There were nights in the 70s where that band was so on fire it was ridiculous. But that portion of the show was typically reserved for a specific period of time. So "Iron Man" or "Snowbllind" or "Spiral Architect" and so on ... most of the songs weren't suddenly turned into extended "jams." To me, this is one of the best decisions and why Sabbath shows from the 70s have really aged well for listening. You get *some* of that 70s wildness/experimentation, but the most of the set if just fire-breathing versions of the songs, without much deviation except to turn the energy and power up a notch.
                          "It is not opinion that Ozzy peaked on Sabotage, it is a measurable fact."
                          -WTB

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by William_the_Bloody View Post
                            I think there is a very large chunk of any given demographic that simply have no discernment whatsoever, no sense of quality control and are willing to hand over their money with great glee for anything that stimulates their sense of nostalgia, because simplicity enjoys endless repetition.

                            It's as if admitting the quality is not there anymore would somehow reach into their memories and destroy them, and leave their only sense of "better times" decimated.

                            There's no "Problem" with it, not that anyone is ever going to fix, but it *is* sad to those who discern and for those of us made sad by this behavior it is our right to comment on it.
                            These comments are applicable to the methods many people use to reflect on a current experience while comparing it to a past, seemingly perfect memory. However, it is not an accurate portrayal of Black Sabbath and the End tour. These old "geezers" are in fact delivering very high quality shows on a regular basis. I base this on my first-hand experiences at two shows each for both the 13 and End tours. In addition, many other BSO members shared the same sentiments. Tony and Geezer are still spectacular, Tommy provides a lot of energy, and Ozzy has been mostly solid, if not excellent throughout these tours. Black Sabbath is not simply going through the motions to collect on an easy revenue flow, the masters are working hard, enjoying themselves, and providing a final opportunity for their fans to celebrate the greatness of Black Sabbath.

                            Wheels, you often have negative views of the band's recent activities, I am happy to hear you also enjoyed the show.

                            Jeff, many excellent points. Your detailed critique was clearly based on facts and an honest first-hand analysis.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Hand of Doom was played last night at Leeds, along with an excellent Under the Sun. Ozzy's voice was in great form.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Excellent concert in Leeds last night. The last time I saw Sabbath in Leeds was in 1982 on the Mob Rules Tour in the old Queens Hall, a converted bus shed. Last nights gig was in the new Leeds Arena, 13,000 state of the art auditorium, loved it, great venue.
                                The sound was amazing, the best quality I've heard at a concert in a while, and to hear Tony's crushing riffs with such clarity was fantastic, he was immense, in fact the whole band sounded brilliant, even Ozzy sounded good and strong. He might sing in a lower register these days but I hardly noticed it on the night, and his voice hardly cracked at all. There wasnt as much screaming between the songs, seems like he's saving his voice for actual singing, which was good. His stage movements are limited these days but so what, its still good to see him out there giving it his all.
                                Geezers pounding bass was high in the mix giving it a top heavy sound, brilliant. I still cant believe how good the overall sound was, totally pissed all over the last time I saw them at Download last year, mind you I was half pissed stood up to my knees in mud in a large field pissing it down with rain, not the greatest concert experience.
                                So glad we got to hear the full Under the Sun, probably my fave song on the night, that outro riff still sends shudders down my spine. Hand of Doom sound great also. I noticed a few of the songs slowed down in tempo a bit, giving them a heavier sludgier feel, most noticeable on Snowblind.
                                Gotta mention Tommy Clufetos, wow, blew me away, dont get me wrong give me Bill anyday, but fook me, he was good.
                                Overall a really enjoyable gig, better than I was expecting, and if this is the last time I get to see Sabbath then I can't complain. Wish I was going to Brum next weekend but nevermind, last night was a great night to say tarrah to my fave band of all time.
                                Do you believe a word what the good book says?
                                Or is it just a holy fairytale and God is Dead?

                                Comment

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