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Black sabbath the end of the end ?

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  • Originally posted by Sabbabbath View Post
    I guess you're right, because I fail to see any other explanation. But I don't understand why Tony and Geezer accepted that.


    Because Sharon rules.
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
    ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

    Comment


    • Originally posted by OzzyIsDio View Post
      Because Sharon rules.
      Hm, I am not convinced. Many Sabbath fans tend to blame everything bad that happens about the band to Sharon Osbourne. Sure, she is Ozzy's manager, and she is rich and a very successfull businesswoman. But she needed Geezer and, even more so, Tony, and their manegements for the reunion to happen. Thus if they had refused to do it with Tommy, how exactly then would Sharon have forced them to do it?
      Taking into account the full history of Black Sabbath, we can easily see that Sabbath (and, more specifically, Tony) are perfectly able to make very, very bad decisions without Sharon. Was it Sharon who decided to play in South Africa during Apartheid? I don't even wanna go on... "Sharon rules" is an explanation, rather than an allegation, only if you can show HOW she "forced" the band to accept Tommy as a drummer. The band members are grown men, which of course doesn't say anything about the quality of the decisions they take - it just implies that, unlike puppets on strings, they are responsible for their doings.

      Comment


      • I can't believe people are still talking about why Tommy is in the band ! Seriously ?
        Well for starters everyone loves Tommy on board , from the band to the crew to the management , he is very humble , professional and you can tell he puts tons of energy and power to his performances too , obviously he can't swing as Bill (who does anyway ? Even Bill doesn't sound like old Bill) but makes it up in other aspects , he definitely injected a much needed fresh blood , consistency and energy to the band's live shows , you can also hear significant improvement with his drumming with the band since he started back in 2012 , also Tommy is a well respected and admired drummer in the business , in case you don't know , he played with the likes of Alice Cooper , Ted Nugent and Rob Zombie before joining Ozzy's solo band , so to claim that you can't look on why he is on board with a band like Sabbath just doesn't make sense.

        I believe Brad Wilk might have been considered for the live role member but instead Tommy was kept for a couple of different reasons , one of them I guess is to sort of make it up to him for not making it on '13' , when Bill was left out Tommy jumped in to keep things going Rick Rubin and the band decided to look for other options ... mentioning that as well , the band did audition some really BIG names for '13' before settling on Brad (and who did brilliantly given he was there only 2 weeks before they went on to record the album not to mention the final mastering killing all his drumming dynamics on the final product).

        Anyway I personally thought Tommy did a really find job on 'The End' tour in particular , his drums definitely sounded much better live than they do on the new live record (he had an incredible drum sound on both London shows and which overall , were both better than the last 2 in Birmingham).

        Last note - Tomorrow's Dream was played on the first show before being permanently dropped on the rest of 'The End' tour dates.
        Last edited by IRON-MaN; 11-20-2017, 04:12 AM.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Sabbabbath View Post
          Hm, I am not convinced. Many Sabbath fans tend to blame everything bad that happens about the band to Sharon Osbourne. Sure, she is Ozzy's manager, and she is rich and a very successfull businesswoman. But she needed Geezer and, even more so, Tony, and their manegements for the reunion to happen. Thus if they had refused to do it with Tommy, how exactly then would Sharon have forced them to do it?
          Taking into account the full history of Black Sabbath, we can easily see that Sabbath (and, more specifically, Tony) are perfectly able to make very, very bad decisions without Sharon. Was it Sharon who decided to play in South Africa during Apartheid? I don't even wanna go on... "Sharon rules" is an explanation, rather than an allegation, only if you can show HOW she "forced" the band to accept Tommy as a drummer. The band members are grown men, which of course doesn't say anything about the quality of the decisions they take - it just implies that, unlike puppets on strings, they are responsible for their doings.
          I’m a Sharon supporter, love the woman , I think she’s beautiful and one of the reasons we got 13 and the reunion.

          Originally posted by IRON-MaN View Post
          I can't believe people are still talking about why Tommy is in the band ! Seriously ?
          Well for starters everyone loves Tommy on board , from the band to the crew to the management , he is very humble , professional and you can tell he puts tons of energy and power to his performances too , obviously he can't swing as Bill (who does anyway ? Even Bill doesn't sound like old Bill) but makes it up in other aspects , he definitely injected a much needed fresh blood , consistency and energy to the band's live shows , you can also hear significant improvement with his drumming with the band since he started back in 2012 , also Tommy is a well respected and admired drummer in the business , in case you don't know , he played with the likes of Alice Cooper , Ted Nugent and Rob Zombie before joining Ozzy's solo band , so to claim that you can't look on why he is on board with a band like Sabbath just doesn't make sense.

          I believe Brad Wilk might have been considered for the live role member but instead Tommy was kept for a couple of different reasons , one of them I guess is to sort of make it up to him for not making it on '13' , when Bill was left out Tommy jumped in to keep things going Rick Rubin and the band decided to look for other options ... mentioning that as well , the band did audition some really BIG names for '13' before settling on Brad (and who did brilliantly given he was there only 2 weeks before they went on to record the album not to mention the final mastering killing all his drumming dynamics on the final product).

          Anyway I personally thought Tommy did a really find job on 'The End' tour in particular , his drums definitely sounded much better live than they do on the new live record (he had an incredible drum sound on both London shows and which overall , were both better than the last 2 in Birmingham).

          Last note - Tomorrow's Dream was played on the first show before being permanently dropped on the rest of 'The End' tour dates.
          I have no qualms with Tommy, I think he did a great job, I have supported him in the past and will continue to do so.
          Last edited by OzzyIsDio; 11-20-2017, 07:46 AM.
          "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
          "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
          ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

          Comment


          • A good, levelheaded post from the I-MaN there, and probably some of it's right. But there's no doubt that Tommy got the gig because he's part of "the Osbourne family". And as you said, probably also because he was left out of 13 (for the same family reason). Sharon's known for treating those who are loyal to them very nice...

            But on another note; Tony have said that after Bill quit (the first time), he've tended to prefer more straight forward mechanical drummers instead of the grooving, swinging style of Bill (and Brad). So kudos to Rick Rubin who convinced them to use Brad. Who knows, maybe Tony really prefered Tommy for the album too? But given this was supposed to sound like early 70's Sabbath, Rubin pushed the idea of bringing Brad along trough. I don't remember who else auditioned, but wasn't it said at the time that Carl Palmer was one of them? I myself was rooting for Zak Starkey...
            Last edited by Billy Underdog; 11-20-2017, 07:42 AM.
            95% of everything i say is pure bullshit just for the fun of it. The other 95% is damn serious!
            Til įrs ok frišar ok forn sišr

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Billy Underdog View Post
              A good, levelheaded post from the I-MaN there, and probably some of it's right. But there's no doubt that Tommy got the gig because he's part of "the Osbourne family". And as you said, probably also because he was left out of 13 (for the same family reason). Sharon's known for treating those who are loyal to them very nice...

              But on another note; Tony have said that after Bill quit (the first time), he've tended to prefer more straight forward mechanical drummers instead of the grooving, swinging style of Bill (and Brad). So kudos to Rick Rubin who convinced them to use Brad. Who knows, maybe Tony really prefered Tommy for the album too? But given this was supposed to sound like early 70's Sabbath, Rubin pushed the idea of bringing Brad along trough. I don't remember who else auditioned, but wasn't it said at the time that Carl Palmer was one of them? I myself was rooting for Zak Starkey...
              There is not even the slightest of doubt that originally , the 3 of them wanted Bill to do the album ...
              I think most fans tend to forget the time frame and how extremely tight it was back then on '13' , apart from Bill's fiasco Tony was going through his cancer treatments at the time and was in extremely poor health condition , not to mention he felt an urgency to wrap up the album in case things got worse from there ! Carl Palmer was indeed one of the auditioned drummer since he is a very close friend to both Iommi and Geezer , there were other really remarkable names but one of them in particular wasn't getting well with one of the band members.

              At the end , I think Brad was really a great choice to fill in Bill's shoe , if it wasn't for the bricked wall compressed final mastering of the album I guess we would all have appreciated his work way more than we do , personally I think Kenny Aronoff could have been another very interesting choice , his work and how his drumming gels perfectly with Iommi's guitars on 'Fused' is quite amazing , and while he might not swing as good or deep as Bill , he really is brilliant when it comes to dealing with music changes (just listen to 'I Go Insane')

              Anyway I hope we don't get too drifted away with this ... lets get back to topic ! Still waiting for my LP and Deluxe sets to arrive ! Can't wait !
              Last edited by IRON-MaN; 11-20-2017, 09:22 AM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by BACK TO EDEN View Post
                ^^^^^ Great pics !!




                Collection is absolutely fantastic , show is special to the max ..... you even forget the age they are at ,,, it's that good ....
                Yep. It bests "Gathered" (audio) by some margin. I'm still debating about getting the DVD. Those rapid camera shots are annoying. Are there some people that actually like this kind of editing? Granted, it does generate an atmosphere but those crowd shots are embarrassing. Aw, hell, I can't resist (heading over to Amazon now lol)

                Comment


                • About the "Limited Super Deluxe Edition", is it numbered?

                  Btw, got an email that my order is finally packed now, ready to ship, so crossing my fingers that it'll arrive this week. Don't know why, really, can't open it until christmas eve anyway, as it's the present to me from my dog...
                  95% of everything i say is pure bullshit just for the fun of it. The other 95% is damn serious!
                  Til įrs ok frišar ok forn sišr

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Billy Underdog View Post
                    About the "Limited Super Deluxe Edition", is it numbered?

                    Btw, got an email that my order is finally packed now, ready to ship, so crossing my fingers that it'll arrive this week. Don't know why, really, can't open it until christmas eve anyway, as it's the present to me from my dog...
                    Limited but not numbered , you really have a nice dog

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by fictional seduction View Post
                      Got my copy in the mail today. Sadly it looks like it's really just the uniterrupted concert on the BluRay. I must say, I enjoyed the documentary we got in the cinema release so much, I wish it would have been included here as a film, too. Does anyone know wether that is gonna resurface somewhere?
                      I don’t think my DVD has it either, are there different version out there? I bought the box set and the DVD separate with the Angelic sessions so I don’t have to keep opening the box set and ruin it.

                      Guess I’ll have to watch the Box Set one maybe that has the documentary.

                      Can someone help?
                      "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
                      "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
                      ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by OzzyIsDio View Post
                        I don’t think my DVD has it either, are there different version out there? I bought the box set and the DVD separate with the Angelic sessions so I don’t have to keep opening the box set and ruin it.

                        Guess I’ll have to watch the Box Set one maybe that has the documentary.

                        Can someone help?
                        The Documentary is not available on any of the formats or packages sold at the moment , it was exclusive for theater release and show time (stupid I know) , I guess it will surface or appear fully online sometime in the near future.

                        Comment


                        • I thought it was mentioned on here that both versions would be part of the set, or maybe I seen it somewhere else, or I just dreamt it.

                          Re: Tommy being the touring drummer and not Brad. Thought I read an interview with either Tony or Geezer that they wanted to market the band going forward as just the 3 of them and not have it look like Brad was officially the new 4th member of Sabbath replacing Bill which it would've come across as if he'd done both the album & tour.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Jack the Stripper View Post
                            I thought it was mentioned on here that both versions would be part of the set, or maybe I seen it somewhere else, or I just dreamt it.

                            Re: Tommy being the touring drummer and not Brad. Thought I read an interview with either Tony or Geezer that they wanted to market the band going forward as just the 3 of them and not have it look like Brad was officially the new 4th member of Sabbath replacing Bill which it would've come across as if he'd done both the album & tour.
                            Yes it was told that the Blu Ray/DVD will have both the theater and uninterrupted versions (with the obvious option of choosing your own viewing) , but unfortunately that's not the case. Regarding Brad and Tommy , it could be one of the reasons but to be honest , sometimes we (the fans) just read too much into things while in reality things flow in certain directions for more simpler or much less complex reasons that we might think of. I think Tommy was kept on tour for various of reasons , and this might possibly be one of them !

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                            • Its been on torrents since it aired on showtime, love it.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by IRON-MaN View Post
                                The Documentary is not available on any of the formats or packages sold at the moment , it was exclusive for theater release and show time (stupid I know) , I guess it will surface or appear fully online sometime in the near future.
                                Thank you IRON-MaN.
                                "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
                                "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
                                ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

                                Comment

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