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Bill open for reunion

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Charger View Post
    Well "according to Bill" sadly doesn't have much weight anymore....he's just bent the truth bit too much bit too many times since this whole thing started back in 2011...

    And also didn't Bill have surgery (shoulder or something if memory serves me right) just prior to The End tour which meant he would have been unable to play for months anyways...
    you're right , Charger :
    http://loudwire.com/bill-ward-health...ture-projects/

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by BACK TO EDEN View Post
      Bill left Black Sabbath because of a garbage contract that revolved around "money" - and everything THAT particular money represented - that's a fact ,,, What he was offered was an insult to what he helped create - It was a joke in direct comparison to the others , along with touring restrictions that once again affected the MONEY , Bill has way too much pride for that kind of crap ..... and as far as "13" is concerned - Bill was beyond approach capable of delivering an even BETTER "13" than we have now (and that's saying something) ..... ya straight up , Bill has been a pillar of strength on this subject , while the others have not , and they should keep their "secrets" to themselves .... just the facts.
      I honestly find Bill's latest statement quite poor , pointless and even hysterical at times !

      He claims that they NEVER needed a back up drummer when they were touring and the next sentence he says he missed the whole European tour ! How contradicting could someone be ? Bill mentioned in one of his interview after his last surgery that only 50% of his heart is functioning , and yet he claims he could do a whole extensive touring schedule , day in day out without missing a bit , anyone who believes that Bill could PHYSICALLY cut such intense long set on a busy touring schedule like they did on '13' or 'The End' should seriously go and check their brains , a 5 year old could easily tell you its illogical and not possible.

      Bill also stays delusional about the fact that it was quite a necessity to have a back up drummer on those reunion tours back then (Tony mentions in his book that Bill seemed offended but never spoke to them about it) , I mean seriously ? what was the band supposed to do ? that the was LEAST comprise they could possibly do in order to make sure no shows are cancelled or the whole tour put into jeopardy because of Bill's health condition , he simply refuses to see the big picture and takes it all upon his shoulders ! Also it obviously his pay check wouldn't be anywhere close to the rest of the 3 guys for countless reasons (you can add the extra back up drummer expenses to the list).When Tony mentioned he couldn't really understand how tough the tour would be on his health , he was obviously talking with good intentions , with their age and health issues , even the other 3 members couldn't grasp how grueling those last 2 world tour would impact their mental and physical health (and indeed it was quite exhausting) !

      As for the money / contract issue , so Bill was offered an extremely poor contract along that he couldn't possibly accept , sounds right ... but couldn't it be he was offered such a contract in order to push him away from the whole album and tour ? Lets take a step back and put ourselves in the other 3 band members shoes , lets assume just for a minute that for one reason or the other , they found that it wasn't working with Bill and they needed to go on and yet not too be blatant to their friend that his service or his chops is not up to what they want/need , what would they do ? well yes , instead of saying we don't need you they would offer him a contract and conditions that he could not possibly accept , so well , here you go ....

      Also the other 3 band members (and after Bill kept coming up with one statement after the other) mentioned that Bill's chops weren't up to the standard and they had to move on , first reference would be Tony Iommi's book (extended updated edition) and where he mentions that Bill was quite rusty when they got together , 2nd would be Ozzy on many different interviews , but the most memorable would be where he said Bill was using those yellow stick notes all over his drums , 3rd would be this interview with Geezer and here is part of it (Timeout magazine Dubai /2014)...

      " Q- Is there ever a sense that’s someone’s missing, that the touch [founding drummer] Bill [Ward] brought to the music is no longer there?

      We started off with Bill Ward this time around and it just didn’t happen.

      Q - I hear it was about money?

      Well to be blatantly honest he just couldn’t do it anymore. He was thinking that we could take like ten years to do the album, whereas we knew we only had so long to do it and get out on tour, while you’re still good at what you do. Bill was a bit unfit, and ironically in hospital with intestinal problems, so he’d have had to leave the tour anyway if we’d gone out with him.

      Q - Are there any hard feelings? Would you have a drink with him?

      I love Bill – we all love Bill – it’s a horrible thing he couldn’t complete it. Sabbath is Sabbath, it’s the four of us, we were almost going to call the album 75 Percent at one time [laughs], because that’s what it felt like. Especially when [Rage Against the Machine’s] Brad Wilk came in drumming – that was [producer] Rick Ruben’s idea to bring him in, and we thought if we’re bringing a brand new drummer, why can’t we have Bill? But Rick Rubin said ‘we can’t be in the studio forever waiting for Bill to get it right’.

      I've mentioned this before and I will mention it again , I've personally heard from someone that worked on '13' that Bill was in a really poor shape and in his words "could't drum for 10 minutes". I also find it quite funny how he really blasts into Tony given his many times he put the band into complete limbo back in the 80's , and how every time Tony extended his hands and offered him to come back one time after the other.

      Last and not least , and regardless to this pointless drama , I'm more than sure Bill will be approach AGAIN by Tony proposing one off gig celebrating their 50th anniversary together next year !

      Comment


      • #48
        Jeff , IRON-MaN .... The substance stated in this thread - was that Bill was once again bringing up this subject from out of nowhere , and that once again is absolutely inaccurate ,, it was in response to Iommi , time and again - as it is always one of the other 3 stating a not so truthful viewpoint first , and then the pillar of strength responds - and everyone goes over board ..... Jeff what you stated in your thoughts is DEAD ACCURATE , but does not change the inaccuracies from every angle on this subject , not one bit in fact , tho you are right in your explanation.

        IRON-MaN , as far as touring is concerned - I don't believe there is much of an argument from anyone on that subject , in many ways , not even from Bill himself ... but , in the way the others went about it .... Bill helped create - more than Ozzy or Geezer - the finish product of those first 8 releases , for his style was EXTREME to why Sabbath sounded the way they did ,,,, and sure , why not screw Bill out of what he rightfully deserves with a "garbage" contract , MONEY and all - doesn't take much thought to see the obvious in that .....

        BUT , as far as the album "13" n Bill is concerned - MIKE-X , GEEZER , RUBIN , OZZY and even IOMMI to a lesser extent - have yet to say a SINGLE ACCURATE STATEMENT about it ,,, I do not believe this statement to be true , I KNOW IT for an undeniable FACT ,,, and all the secrets and bullsh*t they have vomited on this subject is asinine and disgraceful ,,, in fact , I even have to watch myself when talking about it , here (I've been told as much) as well as elsewhere - YET , the fact remains , if they have spewed such crap about "13" with how it pertains to Bill , and I know it as much as any of those 3 do ,, then they get no pass , right or wrong , with any other thoughts - "logical" or not , on these Ward subjects , they don't deserve it ..... just is what it IS.


        God Bless

        Comment


        • #49
          Iron-man, with your friendships & interactions with the band and their crew/producers, I trust every word you say.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by BACK TO EDEN View Post
            Jeff , IRON-MaN .... The substance stated in this thread - was that Bill was once again bringing up this subject from out of nowhere , and that once again is absolutely inaccurate ,, it was in response to Iommi , time and again - as it is always one of the other 3 stating a not so truthful viewpoint first , and then the pillar of strength responds - and everyone goes over board ..... Jeff what you stated in your thoughts is DEAD ACCURATE , but does not change the inaccuracies from every angle on this subject , not one bit in fact , tho you are right in your explanation.

            IRON-MaN , as far as touring is concerned - I don't believe there is much of an argument from anyone on that subject , in many ways , not even from Bill himself ... but , in the way the others went about it .... Bill helped create - more than Ozzy or Geezer - the finish product of those first 8 releases , for his style was EXTREME to why Sabbath sounded the way they did ,,,, and sure , why not screw Bill out of what he rightfully deserves with a "garbage" contract , MONEY and all - doesn't take much thought to see the obvious in that .....

            BUT , as far as the album "13" n Bill is concerned - MIKE-X , GEEZER , RUBIN , OZZY and even IOMMI to a lesser extent - have yet to say a SINGLE ACCURATE STATEMENT about it ,,, I do not believe this statement to be true , I KNOW IT for an undeniable FACT ,,, and all the secrets and bullsh*t they have vomited on this subject is asinine and disgraceful ,,, in fact , I even have to watch myself when talking about it , here (I've been told as much) as well as elsewhere - YET , the fact remains , if they have spewed such crap about "13" with how it pertains to Bill , and I know it as much as any of those 3 do ,, then they get no pass , right or wrong , with any other thoughts - "logical" or not , on these Ward subjects , they don't deserve it ..... just is what it IS.


            God Bless
            Thanks Doc

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by BACK TO EDEN View Post
              Jeff , IRON-MaN .... The substance stated in this thread - was that Bill was once again bringing up this subject from out of nowhere , and that once again is absolutely inaccurate ,, it was in response to Iommi , time and again - as it is always one of the other 3 stating a not so truthful viewpoint first , and then the pillar of strength responds - and everyone goes over board ..... Jeff what you stated in your thoughts is DEAD ACCURATE , but does not change the inaccuracies from every angle on this subject , not one bit in fact , tho you are right in your explanation.

              IRON-MaN , as far as touring is concerned - I don't believe there is much of an argument from anyone on that subject , in many ways , not even from Bill himself ... but , in the way the others went about it .... Bill helped create - more than Ozzy or Geezer - the finish product of those first 8 releases , for his style was EXTREME to why Sabbath sounded the way they did ,,,, and sure , why not screw Bill out of what he rightfully deserves with a "garbage" contract , MONEY and all - doesn't take much thought to see the obvious in that .....

              BUT , as far as the album "13" n Bill is concerned - MIKE-X , GEEZER , RUBIN , OZZY and even IOMMI to a lesser extent - have yet to say a SINGLE ACCURATE STATEMENT about it ,,, I do not believe this statement to be true , I KNOW IT for an undeniable FACT ,,, and all the secrets and bullsh*t they have vomited on this subject is asinine and disgraceful ,,, in fact , I even have to watch myself when talking about it , here (I've been told as much) as well as elsewhere - YET , the fact remains , if they have spewed such crap about "13" with how it pertains to Bill , and I know it as much as any of those 3 do ,, then they get no pass , right or wrong , with any other thoughts - "logical" or not , on these Ward subjects , they don't deserve it ..... just is what it IS.


              God Bless
              My problem with Bill's statement that he completely denies that his health issues (past or present) could have been a main concern for the band and management , not only this , he doesn't even want to take a step back , look at the whole picture , and in doing so , understand the whole prospect and justification of having back up drummer on tour ! Almost everyone couldn't deny the fact that it wasn't possible for Bill to do a whole hectic tour given his past health issues , yet still , Bill and as shown in all his statements , he didn't except any compromises or common mid ground , he wanted IT ALL or nothing , do the whole tour , every single date or he won't be part of it ! Also regarding Bill's drumming capabilities and chops on the '13' sessions , that prospect is subjective from one person to the other , so while YOU or someone else think Bill was in great drumming shape , maybe the other 3 members, the producer , the management had other opinion about it , from my own personal perspective , and judging from Bill's history and recent statements in particular , it seems that his work ethics , musicianship and even mentality doesn't jell or comply much with the other 3 members , its doesn't take anything from Bill , its just seemed to be a struggle for the 4 of them to work on the same page , I also guess with Iommi's cancer and illness , there was a sort of urgency to get the album sorted and done as quick as possible !

              Originally posted by OIM View Post
              Iron-man, with your friendships & interactions with the band and their crew/producers, I trust every word you say.
              Not really , I've never ever bought the subject matter to any band member , after all its their own business , it wasn't nuclear science to understand why Bill wasn't on tour , as for his drumming condition on the album '13' sessions , you can figure it out from what have been mentioned by all the other 3 members from various interviews , yet and apart from that , I was once chatting with someone who have been working with the band for a very long time and who had a major input on the album , someone brought that Bill subject and I got to hear his response first hand , and well ... it was pretty close to what I had in mind in the first place.


              Again , all of this is pointless to discuss .... the real question is , will Bill accept to join and play with the band he was offered to do so on their 50th anniversary next year ? I'm more than positive he will be approached and I was more than happy to hear he would love to play with the 3 other guys (a couple of months ago) and before his latest statement.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by IRON-MaN View Post
                My problem with Bill's statement that he completely denies that his health issues (past or present) could have been a main concern for the band and management , not only this , he doesn't even want to take a step back , look at the whole picture , and in doing so , understand the whole prospect and justification of having back up drummer on tour ! Almost everyone couldn't deny the fact that it wasn't possible for Bill to do a whole hectic tour given his past health issues , yet still , Bill and as shown in all his statements , he didn't except any compromises or common mid ground , he wanted IT ALL or nothing , do the whole tour , every single date or he won't be part of it ! Also regarding Bill's drumming capabilities and chops on the '13' sessions , that prospect is subjective from one person to the other , so while YOU or someone else think Bill was in great drumming shape , maybe the other 3 members, the producer , the management had other opinion about it , from my own personal perspective , and judging from Bill's history and recent statements in particular , it seems that his work ethics , musicianship and even mentality doesn't jell or comply much with the other 3 members , its doesn't take anything from Bill , its just seemed to be a struggle for the 4 of them to work on the same page , I also guess with Iommi's cancer and illness , there was a sort of urgency to get the album sorted and done as quick as possible !



                Not really , I've never ever bought the subject matter to any band member , after all its their own business , it wasn't nuclear science to understand why Bill wasn't on tour , as for his drumming condition on the album '13' sessions , you can figure it out from what have been mentioned by all the other 3 members from various interviews , yet and apart from that , I was once chatting with someone who have been working with the band for a very long time and who had a major input on the album , someone brought that Bill subject and I got to hear his response first hand , and well ... it was pretty close to what I had in mind in the first place.


                Again , all of this is pointless to discuss .... the real question is , will Bill accept to join and play with the band he was offered to do so on their 50th anniversary next year ? I'm more than positive he will be approached and I was more than happy to hear he would love to play with the 3 other guys (a couple of months ago) and before his latest statement.
                Fair enough my good man ,, and understand this thoroughly - I do not doubt your intentions and or integrity on this subject or any other pertaining to Black Sabbath , for that matter ... I truly believe , that you believe , what you have heard - and or have seen - and or have used your own intelligence to formulate your thoughts on .... I respect that from you , and almost expect nothing less from you , that's a compliment by the way ....

                BUT , It makes no difference what MikeX , Rubin , some other guy close to the band , Ozzy , Geezer , Iommi or even Ward himself says about "13" and the "Bill sessions" ..... it is a point of fact , without doubt , no opinion needed - that Mr. Ward was beyond approach ready , capable and DELIVERED in those jam sessions (and one would be surprised how much of the album "possibly" came from right there) , AND EVERYONE INVOLVED KNOWS IT - if they can hear or see , no room for debate .... so when they speak on it otherwise , it's just plain silly - I'll leave it at that.

                For your last point , and your CORRECT , essentially the only point that even matters here on this - I'm with you , I'm ALMOST CERTAIN , not guaranteed (no I don't have inside info) , but certain - something will happen with Bill in the future / 50 years / ect ...


                Respect brother , Doc
                Last edited by BACK TO EDEN; 08-22-2017, 08:00 PM. Reason: GOD BLESS ....

                Comment


                • #53
                  The band says Bill was not capable for the album and the full tour(s). Bill says he was always capable but the offered deal was unacceptable and disrespectful.

                  So someone's lying.



                  So sick of this, too many years of debate. But hey, the Lord knows it all so that's that.
                  "He is the King of all kings, the keeper of light...He holds eternity's wings"

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Despite these recent comments Tony made being taken by Bill in a certain way (frankly, they don't appear to have been intended that way, IMO), one thing that can't be argued is this:

                    Tony has been mostly silent on this whole issue. Not saying that's good or saying it's bad, but clearly he has tried to keep things "in house" for the most part.

                    The other thing which gets lost on the often poorly researched press is that when this all happened, Bill came out swinging. The band said NOTHING for months. They took it on the chin. They let legions of people believe they were "screwing Bill out of money" and I can't help but wonder if Bill has kept this in mind. As I recall the only comment made before the 13 tour started was when Geezer took offense to Bill's comments about not having been offered payment for the charity gig in Birmingham. Something along the lines of; "Gee, Bill, I thought that's what a charity gig was. A gig for charity."

                    What happened in the press is that once Ozzy and Geezer made some comments, the whole thing was kind of spun around as if the band were on the attack, but I honestly believe that if those guys weren't being hounded about what happened, they probably never would have said anything.

                    Bill has overcompensated. I don't know if that picture of him with his garage band was photo-shopped, but if he lost that much weight it is almost bizarre. It would be like he was trying to prove Ozzy wrong about his conditioning. But Ozzy spoke of his condition in the past tense, so Bill seemed almost like he was trying to look fit and healthy as if that would make those comments untrue. That logic eludes me. "I am fit and healthy now, so your comments about me then are hereby discredited"?

                    Having said this, I do think it was a mistake for Ozzy to mention Bill's weight. There was no need to get into that.

                    Anyway ... I see a couple of shows happening for the 50th. And I see Bill as a part of it. I just think everyone involved will realize that with all four of them here and capable, they should feel blessed for it to even be a possibility and take advantage of it.
                    "It is not opinion that Ozzy peaked on Sabotage, it is a measurable fact."
                    -WTB

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Jeff View Post
                      I see a couple of shows happening for the 50th. And I see Bill as a part of it. I just think everyone involved will realize that with all four of them here and capable, they should feel blessed for it to even be a possibility and take advantage of it.
                      Tony is open for one-off shows, maybe next on the 50th anniversary of the band and album. Maybe Bill could join them for a one-off show or two, for old times' sake and for the fans. If he's capable and if the contract is signable or whatever.

                      At least Bill is missing playing one of his integral songs, the mighty and massive "Hand Of Doom"...

                      http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/bil...t-of-who-i-am/

                      If that's the case, then why doesn't Bill play it for us, make a video where he shows us how it's done? Everyone of us would love to hear and see Bill play, so why not?
                      "He is the King of all kings, the keeper of light...He holds eternity's wings"

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        While I understand the debate of it all can be interesting, and often entertaining, I don't find there is much debate. I've said before, and will again. It's meaningless what Bill has said and is saying. The proof is in the pudding with his EXTREME inactivity within the music world as a whole. We've gotten one half assed release and ramblings of another in the works forever now. If your chops are up and/or you want to keep them up...PLAY! How many fuckers in this world would blow their load at the opportunity to play with the man and we've gotten a few snippets of a few songs he appeared on stage for. Nothing else. Nothing more.

                        Say what you will about Ozzy and his abilities, but at least the guy is up there doing it with a smile on his face. How many times can you hear Bill whine about "I could and I can!" and never actually see that he did and is doing!? Get some guys together and jam Sabbath songs in the club scene. Do a little tour. People will show up. DO IT! JUST. FUCKING. DO. IT!!!
                        ***Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of other internet people, the internet police or the internet in general. It is to be assumed that all sentences are automatically followed by "IMO, BUDDY" as to not offend other internet people and start an internet fight.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          I don't know. Maybe if Ozzy had a back up singer back-stage, for the nights he is sick, maybe he wouldn't be smiling so much. Maybe that cuts into his contract, too. Maybe it makes him more self conscious about issues he's had in the past-- or makes him question the respect his bandmates have for him.

                          I've seen Ozzy twice with Sabbath and on both tours he had to bow out of shows or cancel shows due to illnesses. There's 10 years spanning between these shows and same ol' same ol'. The guy gets sick and cancels shows. Don't get me wrong, I love Oz and am happy for the shows I was able to attend, but why is all of the focus on whether Bill has "the chops" or not? I've read all the articles, but I still find this one confusing.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Lonelyistheword View Post
                            I don't know. Maybe if Ozzy had a back up singer back-stage, for the nights he is sick, maybe he wouldn't be smiling so much. Maybe that cuts into his contract, too. Maybe it makes him more self conscious about issues he's had in the past-- or makes him question the respect his bandmates have for him. I've seen Ozzy twice with Sabbath and on both tours he had to bow out of shows or cancel shows due to illnesses. There's 10 years spanning between these shows and same ol' same ol'. The guy gets sick and cancels shows. Don't get me wrong, I love Oz and am happy for the shows I was able to attend, but why is all of the focus on whether Bill has "the chops" or not? I've read all the articles, but I still find this one confusing.
                            Apples and oranges

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Lonelyistheword View Post
                              I don't know. Maybe if Ozzy had a back up singer back-stage, for the nights he is sick, maybe he wouldn't be smiling so much. Maybe that cuts into his contract, too. Maybe it makes him more self conscious about issues he's had in the past-- or makes him question the respect his bandmates have for him.

                              I've seen Ozzy twice with Sabbath and on both tours he had to bow out of shows or cancel shows due to illnesses. There's 10 years spanning between these shows and same ol' same ol'. The guy gets sick and cancels shows. Don't get me wrong, I love Oz and am happy for the shows I was able to attend, but why is all of the focus on whether Bill has "the chops" or not? I've read all the articles, but I still find this one confusing.
                              Reality check?

                              People are more willing to be empathetic when it comes to a singer not being able to belt it out like he could in his prime. There are countless examples of bands still touring where the singer isn't half what he was. Heck, even the late great Ronnie James Dio wasn't half what he was. Granted Ozzy probably ranges from about 5% to 50% but on recent tours the nights where he was at about 35% were enough where a few off nights aren't going to outweigh the overall success of a tour.

                              I've said it before so for many here I'll be repeating myself: Bill is the greatest rock drummer of all time. But in his later years Bill has not been a finisher. Ozzy, Tony and Geezer have finished tours, albums, radio interviews, television appearances, responsibilities left and right and left and right again. Bill, to some extent, has become a talker. As it happens he is a wonderful talker and a truly fascinating musician, but the guy has decided he is the champion of some unspoken "drummer pride" brigade counting on him to carry some flag of righteousness.

                              If Bill canned his "Rock 50" show and spent 1/10th the time working on his music as he does praising legions of metal bands who don't added up amount to a pimple on his ass in terms of the innovation and creativity over the past 50 years of rock music, the music world would be a far better place, IMO.

                              Don't misunderstand; Bill owes no one. He can kick it in Seal Beach, be seen as a living legend, appear with a two-bit garage band if he wants and release experimental music. I'll buy any music he releases. And I'll respect the hell out of the guy no matter what. But some of the stuff he says is almost borderline delusional. Ozzy may have canceled a few shows (how many ... maybe .00000001% of his thousands of concert appearances?) but he doesn't drop out of tours. He doesn't talk about doing it, he fucking does it. This is the aspect the other three have that Hipster Doofus referenced above. These guys are pretty much all action and little talk. Bill -- and again I'm not saying it isn't his right -- has become mostly talk and little action.
                              "It is not opinion that Ozzy peaked on Sabotage, it is a measurable fact."
                              -WTB

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Jeff View Post
                                Reality check?

                                People are more willing to be empathetic when it comes to a singer not being able to belt it out like he could in his prime. There are countless examples of bands still touring where the singer isn't half what he was. Heck, even the late great Ronnie James Dio wasn't half what he was. Granted Ozzy probably ranges from about 5% to 50% but on recent tours the nights where he was at about 35% were enough where a few off nights aren't going to outweigh the overall success of a tour.

                                I've said it before so for many here I'll be repeating myself: Bill is the greatest rock drummer of all time. But in his later years Bill has not been a finisher. Ozzy, Tony and Geezer have finished tours, albums, radio interviews, television appearances, responsibilities left and right and left and right again. Bill, to some extent, has become a talker. As it happens he is a wonderful talker and a truly fascinating musician, but the guy has decided he is the champion of some unspoken "drummer pride" brigade counting on him to carry some flag of righteousness.

                                If Bill canned his "Rock 50" show and spent 1/10th the time working on his music as he does praising legions of metal bands who don't added up amount to a pimple on his ass in terms of the innovation and creativity over the past 50 years of rock music, the music world would be a far better place, IMO.

                                Don't misunderstand; Bill owes no one. He can kick it in Seal Beach, be seen as a living legend, appear with a two-bit garage band if he wants and release experimental music. I'll buy any music he releases. And I'll respect the hell out of the guy no matter what. But some of the stuff he says is almost borderline delusional. Ozzy may have canceled a few shows (how many ... maybe .00000001% of his thousands of concert appearances?) but he doesn't drop out of tours. He doesn't talk about doing it, he fucking does it. This is the aspect the other three have that Hipster Doofus referenced above. These guys are pretty much all action and little talk. Bill -- and again I'm not saying it isn't his right -- has become mostly talk and little action.
                                These are just some thoughts I had and by no means my complete and utter rational for what's happening within Sabbath at the moment. These are just idle thoughts that I had and thought worthy of discussion. I agree, Bill is no Ozzy and obviously people are more willing to suffer a cancellation for Ozzy than Bill.

                                Also, just to clarify, I was not talking about the skill level of Ozzy, as I quiet enjoyed his vocals on the end tour, and would love to hear him take a stab at songs that are outside his range--even if he struggles. I'm not looking for perfect, by any means. I was commenting on whether or not shows are cancelled due to health issues that he has had, as that seemed to be mentioned by either Oz or Tony recently.... something along the lines of "not wanting to cancel on 70,000 fans..." I don't want to look up the quote, but it was something of the same ilk. I don't think I've personally purchased tickets from any other band where I was worried that my show might be cancelled due to health reasons.

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