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Something Ozzy criticised on "Never Say Die". ???

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  • Something Ozzy criticised on "Never Say Die". ???


    Hi everyone. I read many times Ozzy lamenting about the last couple of years in Sabbath, and particularly the last 2 albums, "Technical Ecstasy" and "Never Say Die".

    I've read Ozzy shaking his head on the instrumental piece, 'Breakout' on "Never Say Die", saying that a whole bunch of saxaphonists going into a recording studio for a Black Sabbath album was just not right, that it wasn't Black Sabbath.

    This is something I've never understood, particularly when I compare instrumentals from other Sabbath albums. I'm specifically referring to 'Fluff' from the "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath" album.

    For sure, saxaphone was not a conventional instrument for Sabbath. However, what is the overall tone of 'Breakout'? It is a tough, raw, gritty instrumental piece. It is not flowery, delicate or gentle. This hard sounding instrumental to me, fits in perfectly with Sabbath, regardless of what unorthodox instruments, (for Sabbath) it had.

    Now let's consider 'Fluff' from an album that is critically considered their finest. 'Fluff' also has an unorthodox instrument-heck, really unorthodox. A harpsichord!!! That is only step away from a harp IMO. Also, 'Fluff' is so well named. It's dainty, pretty, gentle, sweet.

    So I don't get it. Ozzy didn't complain about a flowery instrumetal with a harpsichord but did complain about a raw and tough instrumental with saxaphones, one that IMHO is well suited on a Sabbath album.

    ??????????????????????????????????

  • #2
    Re: Something Ozzy criticised on "Never Say Die". ???

    The main reason might just be that "Breakout" wasn't an instrumental in the beginning. When Dave Walker was in the band, he had written lyrics for this one too, but while Ozzy accepted to sing the other songs under the condition the lyrics where re-written for him, he disliked "Swinging the Chain" and "Breakout" so much that he just refused to touch them. So Bill replaced him on "Swinging the Chain" and they hired John Elstar to play the vocal lines on "Breakout" with an harmonica.

    This is why this tune doesn't have the same sound / feeling of other instrumentals, it just wasn't meant to be one.
    Tony Iommi Fact #216: In fact, most demolition companies donít use explosives to collapse buildings, only a good stereo and a copy of ďDehumanizerĒ.
    "Black Sabbath : la BÍte venue de Birmingham"

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    • #3
      Re: Something Ozzy criticised on "Never Say Die". ???

      Originally Posted By: Gardener The main reason might just be that "Breakout" wasn't an instrumental in the beginning. When Dave Walker was in the band, he had written lyrics for this one too, but while Ozzy accepted to sing the other songs under the condition the lyrics where re-written for him, he disliked "Swinging the Chain" and "Breakout" so much that he just refused to touch them. So Bill replaced him on "Swinging the Chain" and they hired John Elstar to play the vocal lines on "Breakout" with an harmonica.

      This is why this tune doesn't have the same sound / feeling of other instrumentals, it just wasn't meant to be one.

      Hey thanks for that info. I didn't know that. I really love 'Breakout' though. For me, 'Swinging the Chain' is the weakest song on the album.

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      • #4
        Re: Something Ozzy criticised on "Never Say Die". ???

        No, I agree with Oz on this one. I dislike the overall sound on both albums, for me the sax stuff just doesn't work and both are easily the weakest Sabbath Ozzy albums. Though some individual tracks are great, the overall feel is somewhat weak.

        Fluff is a completely different subject, for me fluff is doing a similar device to what the instrumental tracks were doing on Master of Reality, providing a light and dark balance. Whereas the sax stuff to me was moving in a different direction altogether.

        I think part of the reason why Ozzy doesn't want to work with Sabbath stuff is fear of not producing or living up to the high standard set on the first six album, which he could never recreate with them.

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        • #5
          Re: Something Ozzy criticised on "Never Say Die". ???

          Originally Posted By: Gardener The main reason might just be that "Breakout" wasn't an instrumental in the beginning. When Dave Walker was in the band, he had written lyrics for this one too, but while Ozzy accepted to sing the other songs under the condition the lyrics where re-written for him, he disliked "Swinging the Chain" and "Breakout" so much that he just refused to touch them. So Bill replaced him on "Swinging the Chain" and they hired John Elstar to play the vocal lines on "Breakout" with an harmonica.

          This is why this tune doesn't have the same sound / feeling of other instrumentals, it just wasn't meant to be one.
          It's also why the NSD album has a ruched feel to it. Since Ozzy refused to sing the Walker tunes, which were ready to go when the studio time was reserved, they literally had to rewrite a song during the day and go and record that tune at night.

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          • #6
            Re: Something Ozzy criticised on

            ^^^ That's what Tony said, and he also said that because they didn't have time to review the tracks and make changes, that's why the album sounds so confused. I'd like to know, though, why if all of the songs on NSD had to be re-written when Ozzy rejoined, why was Junior's Eyes (which of course BS played live on a UK TV show w/Dave Walker) kept?

            Ted
            ________
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            Last edited by Ted Sallis; 01-22-2011, 02:45 AM.

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            • #7
              Re: Something Ozzy criticised on "Never Say Die".

              Originally Posted By: Ted Sallis why if all of the songs on NSD had to be re-written when Ozzy rejoined, why was Junior's Eyes (which of course BS played live on a UK TV show w/Dave Walker) kept?
              Well, simply enough, it wasn't. The lyrics sung by Walker on the "Look Hear" TV show were completely different to those written by Bill Ward after Ozzy's return. The "Junior's Eyes" lyrics refer to Ozzy's father who had died in january 1978.

              It's only the lyrics that were re-written, the musics were kept as they were.
              Tony Iommi Fact #216: In fact, most demolition companies donít use explosives to collapse buildings, only a good stereo and a copy of ďDehumanizerĒ.
              "Black Sabbath : la BÍte venue de Birmingham"

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              • #8
                Re: Something Ozzy criticised on "Never Say Die".

                Originally Posted By: Gardener It's only the lyrics that were re-written, the musics were kept as they were.
                I could've swore the song structure was changed as well.

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                • #9
                  Re: Something Ozzy criticised on "Never Say Die".

                  Originally Posted By: Buttock1234
                  Originally Posted By: Gardener It's only the lyrics that were re-written, the musics were kept as they were.
                  I could've swore the song structure was changed as well.
                  It sounds the same to me!

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                  • #10
                    Re: Something Ozzy criticised on "Never Say Die".

                    Ozzy also complained about Supetzar on Sabotage, and really didn't like the last 3 albums for their production. He felt that Tony was going overboard with overdubs and crazy instrumentation and stuff. He also said he would cringe at the side of the stage when Tony wen t into big jazz solos and stuff.

                    Basically, Ozzy felt that things should be purer rock while Tony wanted more elaborate stuff. Ozzy also didn't like the heavy doomy stuff like Iron Man and wanted to get away from that sound, and even said he was bored of Tony's playing later on. But thats for a different topic.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Something Ozzy criticised on "Never Say Die".

                      Originally Posted By: Petoria000
                      Originally Posted By: Buttock1234
                      Originally Posted By: Gardener It's only the lyrics that were re-written, the musics were kept as they were.
                      I could've swore the song structure was changed as well.
                      It sounds the same to me!
                      Meh. I could've swore it was different; then again, I haven't listened to it in awhile. I might have to again one of these days.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Something Ozzy criticised on "Never Say Die".

                        Originally Posted By: Buttock1234
                        Originally Posted By: Gardener It's only the lyrics that were re-written, the musics were kept as they were.
                        I could've swore the song structure was changed as well.
                        This intrigued me, so I just played the Walker "Junior's Eyes" and followed it with the NSD version. The melody, structure and lyrics are all completely different - all that's the same is that the songs were created from the same guitar riffs.

                        If this example serves for the rest of the album, the basically rewrote the entire album. I don't believe Ozzy would want to sing Walker's melodies anymore than he wanted to sing Walker's lyrics. In some cases I doubt he could because their voices are so different, just as I'm glad we didn't have to hear Walker try to sing Ozzy songs on tour (although I'd love to hear all the demos they recorded together).

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                        • #13
                          Re: Something Ozzy criticised on "Never Say Die". ???

                          I've always liked Breakout. I thought the sax/whatever other unorthodox instruments they used worked quite well.
                          Monty Python and the Holy Grail pic extravaganza! http://www.black-sabbath.com/vb/showthread.php?t=31523

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                          • #14
                            Re: Something Ozzy criticised on "Never Say Die". ???

                            I love this cd.
                            I know the recording was not as strong.
                            But Never Say Die is a great.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Something Ozzy criticised on "Never Say Die". ???

                              Quote: I read many times Ozzy lamenting about the last couple of years in Sabbath, and particularly the last 2 albums, "Technical Ecstasy" and "Never Say Die".

                              I've read Ozzy shaking his head on the instrumental piece, 'Breakout' on "Never Say Die", saying that a whole bunch of saxaphonists going into a recording studio for a Black Sabbath album was just not right, that it wasn't Black Sabbath.
                              You've got to understand that the reason Ozzy said a lot of shitty things about Tony and the last three albums was because he was bitter and angry. I always figured if Ozzy would have had a better attitude, tried to contribute instead of being as selfish as he was, the last two original Sab albums would have been much better!
                              We donít see things as they are; we see them as we are.

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