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  • Martin - Dehumanizer tapes?

    I've seen rumours that there are demos of Dehumanizer, which has Tony singing. What's the story w/ these??? I'm dying to hear them (if they exist)!

  • #2
    Re: Martin - Dehumanizer tapes?

    There's a bit in Garry-Sharpe Young's book about Sabbath's non Ozzy history that says that there was a point during the Dehumanizer sessions that Dio split, and they re-recorded it with Tony Martin, only to dump that and go with Dio again.

    It's been 13 years now since that happened, and I've never even HEARD of that story until last year, so the chances of them turning up are small, I'd wager.
    Joe Siegler, Webmaster - Black Sabbath Online
    View my CD collection | View my movie collection | What I've been listening to

    "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." (Matthew 25:41)

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    • #3
      Re: Martin - Dehumanizer tapes?

      Tony Martin would probably have the info on this.

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      • #4
        Re: Martin - Dehumanizer tapes?

        Yeah, Tony did record a version of Dehumanizer but it seems to be a very well-guarded treasure. I've never even heard rumors of a bootleg existing from these sessions. I would LOVE to hear them though. Maybe some day someone will take it upon themselves to release a box set of Sabbath rarities like this and make a fortune.

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        • #5
          Re: Martin - Dehumanizer tapes?

          I read the Garry-Sharpe Young book and it was my understanding that there were writing sessions with Tony Martin and he wasn't doing the Dehumanizer material. Some of this material wound up on Cross Puposes.

          On the other the other hand there were some recordings with Cozy before his accident.

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          • #6
            Re: Martin - Dehumanizer tapes?

            it seems that Garry-Sharpe Young sometimes writes very silly things... check out his web site ,there's some very interesting things and some nonsense too.

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            • #7
              Re: Martin - Dehumanizer tapes?

              This sounds to me like some serious rumormongering where someone is simply mixing up a bunch of old facts and rumors and throwing them out into the wind.

              MurmurmurmurmurmurmurmurmurmurTonyMartinmurmurmurm urDehumanizer
              murmurmurmuralternaterecordingmurmurmurmurDiosplit murmurmurmur
              canyousayletsrewriteRayGillen/GlennHughes/TonyMartineighties
              historyoflineupsandrerecordingsmurmurmurmurmurmurm urmurmurmur

              I say shut these people up and wire their fucking jaws shut like Vic Rattlehead (MegaDeath's mascot, IM's Eddie is better btw). This sort of thing is highly irritating.

              No, I don't believe a word of it.

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              • #8
                Re: Martin - Dehumanizer tapes?

                Here’s an excerpt from Garry Sharpe-Young’s book ‘Black Sabbath: Never Say Die! 1979 – 1997’ [2003], the source of this current discussion. It should help clear up a few things for those who haven’t read it, or are unfamiliar with the issue (ie. John Furnish).


                'Back Where I Belong' was lent weight by a veritable roll call of specifically invited guests, including Queen’s Brian May, Black Sabbath colleagues Neil Murray and Geoff Nicholls and Saxon drummer Nigel Glockler. For good measure, Martin also included a re-work of the Black Sabbath song ‘Jerusalem’.
                The singer’s newfound status as a solo artist though, had engendered a number of inquires from other interested parties.
                “Yngwie was quite persistent for a time”, Tony Martin insists. “In fact, the barrage of phone calls from his management and his friends really made me quite wary. They were so keen it got a little too weird for me actually, which put me off. It was very difficult to diplomatically tell them that, although I was appreciative of being asked, my solo album was in the works and far too important for me to stop. Being my first solo thing, it was extra special and I really wanted to see it through. There were others too, even some talk of Journey at one point. Just a brief conversation. I didn’t audition for anyone or follow anything up really, because the ‘Back Where I Belong’ album was my priority.”

                There would be one telephone call though, that did change his focus. The most unexpected one of all – Black Sabbath. “It was only two months after getting Ronnie in though, that they asked me back. Well, I was stuck and told them so. Look, I said, I’ve got my solo thing going so it’s really difficult. Anyhow, I went to have a meeting with Tony Iommi. There were no problems between us, never have been, it was all very professional. He wanted me back, but when I asked what the problem with Ronnie was, he just clammed up, just made lots of ‘Errrr’ and ‘Ummm’ type noises. The result of it all was that I couldn’t do it because I was so deep in with Polydor at the time.”
                It would not be the only hiccup in the reconstituted Mk. 3 line-up. Within a few months Tony Iommi was back on the telephone to Tony Martin yet again. “This was about four months later”, Tony Martin calculates. “Tony told me they just didn’t know where they stood with Ronnie. Apparently, Tony and Geezer had put down all the music and lyrics, but Ronnie wasn’t contributing and no vocals were getting put down. They thought he was being very secretive with his contributions and wouldn’t leave anything in the studio. Basically, they couldn’t finish the songs and he could not see an end to the album the way it was recording.”

                At Iommi and Geezer’s request, Tony Martin made his way down to the familiar pastures of Rockfield Studios in Monmouthshire. “I knew Ronnie had been there only recently because when I walked into the studio there was a microphone stand set up at half-mast, about my shoulder hight!”, scoffs Martin. Long-term followers of the band will attest that microphone stands had been the bane of Ronnie James Dio’s life. Many a time, Dio concert audiences have enjoyed the hilarity of seeing Ronnie’s mic set up before a show at an almost gnome like level by a merciless leg-pulling road crew.
                “Basically, they wanted me to re-do the vocals for the ‘Dehumanizer’ album”, states Tony matter of factly in a revelation that will no doubt shock many Sabbath and Dio fans. “Well, I’m just a singer so I thought OK, I can do my thing here. I’ve done it before. I did have a few reservations, which I spoke to Albert about but he assured me the situation was different this time. We put down vocals on some of the ‘Dehumanizer’ songs and it was sounding good. Obviously, we had to start from scratch on all the vocal melodies and lyrics to redevelop everything. In fact, it was sounding very good. There were a lot of happy, relieved people in the room.”
                With both Tony’s solo effort ‘Back Where I Belong’ and ‘Dehumanizer’ in the bag, the decision was made to re-recruit Martin back into the fold. The vocalist was doubly cautious. He knew that Ronnie James Dio, residing in the West Midlands town of Henley on Arden at that time, had no knowledge of this clandestine session and had been told by Iommi and Butler they had needed a short break.
                Ronnie indeed was none the wiser. “Y’know, I heard some rumblings about this after the event. Did I know they got someone else in at the time? No. They must have been pretty sneaky.”

                Tony Martin felt that he was back on familiar yet dangerous ground. “You know that expression ‘Once bitten, twice shy’? I don’t know how many times I had been bitten by that stage of the game! There were a few more heated discussions, arguments if you will, between myself and Albert. I was very, very wary, but strangely Albert, for a change, was very much on their side this time around. That was very unlike Albert because he usually could see a conspiracy around every corner with Sabbath. My point of view was that I had been fucked over so many times they must be wondering what kind of sucker I am, but Albert said ‘No, this time it’s different. I’ve spoken to them. They desperately need you and it will be different this time. They’re telling the truth – believe me’. Because my manager was so convincing, I was basically convinced too that everything really would be fine this time around. So, I rejoined Black Sabbath and as soon as Polydor found out, they dropped me! That’s the reason ‘Back Where I Belong’ only came out in Germany and Japan.

                “What happened after that was that it was decided that ‘Dehumanizer’ should be put out with Ronnie’s vocals. We fucked that stuff off that I had sung on, which was a shame because those tapes sound just great, believe me. There must have been a lot of label pressure, contracts and stuff. Time was a very big issue, I remember. So I stopped work on the ‘Dehumanizer’ songs and, because at that stage Ronnie was still out of the picture, we started to get brand new material together, because it was decided it would be much quicker to do it that way ‘round. This is where ‘Cross Purposes’ started. We were actually getting basic ‘Cross Purposes’ songs together in the studio before Ronnie joined back up with them to do the ‘Dehumanizer’ tour of America. You can imagine how everyone was feeling at this time. It was pretty strained between Tony, Geezer and Ronnie.”

                [pages 318 – 321; chapter 15. ‘The Dehuman Factor’]

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                • #9
                  Re: Martin - Dehumanizer tapes?

                  Man, I really have been meaning to buy that book. And the ebginning of that passage just emphasizes the bad career choices Tony Martin made which I think is a shame. He turned down Yngwie Malmsteen and Journey in order to make his solo album??? I know he also turned down Blue Murder in the late 80's, and God knows how many other opportunites he pissed away for whatever reasons. Such a great talent, it's such a shame he never achieved a real level of fame outside of Sabbath fans...

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                  • #10
                    Re: Martin - Dehumanizer tapes?

                    [ QUOTE ]
                    Man, I really have been meaning to buy that book. And the ebginning of that passage just emphasizes the bad career choices Tony Martin made which I think is a shame. He turned down Yngwie Malmsteen and Journey in order to make his solo album??? I know he also turned down Blue Murder in the late 80's, and God knows how many other opportunites he pissed away for whatever reasons. Such a great talent, it's such a shame he never achieved a real level of fame outside of Sabbath fans...

                    [/ QUOTE ]

                    Seeing how Yngwie goes thru vocalists, it probably wasn't such a bad career move to turn that gig down.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Martin - Dehumanizer tapes?

                      [ QUOTE ]
                      [ QUOTE ]
                      Man, I really have been meaning to buy that book. And the ebginning of that passage just emphasizes the bad career choices Tony Martin made which I think is a shame. He turned down Yngwie Malmsteen and Journey in order to make his solo album??? I know he also turned down Blue Murder in the late 80's, and God knows how many other opportunites he pissed away for whatever reasons. Such a great talent, it's such a shame he never achieved a real level of fame outside of Sabbath fans...

                      [/ QUOTE ]

                      Seeing how Yngwie goes thru vocalists, it probably wasn't such a bad career move to turn that gig down.

                      [/ QUOTE ]


                      i agree!

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                      • #12
                        Re: Martin - Dehumanizer tapes?

                        [ QUOTE ]

                        “Basically, they wanted me to re-do the vocals for the ‘Dehumanizer’ album”, states Tony matter of factly in a revelation that will no doubt shock many Sabbath and Dio fans. “Well, I’m just a singer so I thought OK, I can do my thing here. I’ve done it before. I did have a few reservations, which I spoke to Albert about but he assured me the situation was different this time. We put down vocals on some of the ‘Dehumanizer’ songs and it was sounding good. Obviously, we had to start from scratch on all the vocal melodies and lyrics to redevelop everything. In fact, it was sounding very good. There were a lot of happy, relieved people in the room.”

                        [/ QUOTE ]

                        I stand corrected!

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                        • #13
                          Re: Martin - Dehumanizer tapes?

                          Sabbath Inc. is a very strange machine, indeed. Or at least it was back then. Sounds to me like there was no one willing to really take control of that situation. Martin was just being flat-out used as a "Plan B" so that the Dehumanizer material could be released if Ronnie bugged out.

                          Martin did make some very bad choices, I agree.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Martin - Dehumanizer tapes?

                            I'd about kill to get my hands on a copy of that demo material. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
                            That's some fascinating info from that book quoted above. Is all or any of that accurate I wonder.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Martin - Dehumanizer tapes?

                              In a way it's a shame Dio ever came back, due to his appearance for one album and then disappearance. If Martin's Dehumanizer were released at least there would have been continuity.

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