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Was Martin abused by Sabbath?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by DiosSword View Post
    As much as I admire Tony Iommi, it has to be said that he shafted Tony Martin at least four times.

    1992 - Costa Mesa. Iommi calls Martin to replace Dio, but Wendy Dio and/or Sharon Osbourne stop it. Rob Halford does the gig.
    And so how is that Tony's fault? Methinks you ought to strike that from your list.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by unplugged-unfretted View Post
      that's a tough one to swallow - how does a major figure in the entertainment industry fail to get a visa for a few days??
      Major figure in the entertainment industry? I like Martin, but are you kidding?

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      • #18
        Originally posted by unplugged-unfretted View Post
        how does a major figure in the entertainment industry fail to get a visa for a few days??
        Originally posted by J Hillenburg View Post
        Major figure in the entertainment industry? I like Martin, but are you kidding?
        I second J on that one. Secondly, visa issues aren't all that uncommon.
        ***Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of other internet people, the internet police or the internet in general. It is to be assumed that all sentences are automatically followed by "IMO, BUDDY" as to not offend other internet people and start an internet fight.

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        • #19
          Im sure that Martin new in his brain that if the oppertunity came for a reunion with Oz or Dio that Iommi couldnt have passed it up.
          Pain and Poison Roses

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          • #20
            There is no question at all in my mind that Martin was disrespected by Iommi and his management. Despite the debate that exists about the merits of that era, there is no disputing the fact that the addition of Martin gave the band much needed stability in the vocal department. He worked tirelessly promoting the band. Unfortunately, one could argue that Iommi saw Martin as a "stop gap"; as long as marquee singers like Ozzy and Dio had no interest in fronting the band, Iommi would work with what he had. The addition of Cozy Powell and Tony Martin gave the band a new lease on life, a fact that remains sadly unappreciated to this day.

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            • #21
              No more so than the other 25 or 30 people who have played with Tony since 7th Star. He proved his worth and was "rewarded" with being able to stay for 5 albums. In the end, Tony owns the group and he makes changes as he sees fit.
              The blind men shout "Let the creatures out, we'll show the unbelievers."
              The napalm screams of human flames, of a prime time Belsen feast ... yeah!
              As the reasons for the carnage cut their meat and lick the gravy.
              We oil the jaws of the war machine and feed it with our babies.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by J Hillenburg View Post
                He worked tirelessly promoting the band. .
                In which ways?

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                • #23
                  He worked tirelessly by being dependable, placing the band ahead of himself and painting the band in the best possible light. There were no ego trips from Martin; it was all about the band.
                  Last edited by J Hillenburg; 09-05-2010, 08:56 AM.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by J Hillenburg View Post
                    He worked tirelessly by being dependable, placing the band ahead of himself and painting the band in the best possible light. There were no ego trips from Martin; it was all about the band.
                    ...he clearly seems like a very nice, very humble character... but so often "nice guys finish last".

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                    • #25
                      Martin was basically just a pawn, and I certainly don't think he deserved the kind of treatment that he got. On the other hand, if you look at the problems Iommi had with Ozzy, Dio, Gillan and Hughes, whether they were due to drugs or simple disagreements, I can see why he chose to keep Martin in tow. But that doesn't make it more fair.

                      Overall, no, I don't think Martin was treated properly. But he's fortunate to have left behind a great legacy. I don't think any of the albums he was featured on are masterpieces, but there some truly fantastic songs to be found on all of them.

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                      • #26
                        This is probably my biggest and only complaint with Tony Iommi, as much as I admire him as a musician. I really do feel like some of the others on this board that Martin was shafted. But a good point that someone else brought up also Martin was the one who came back for the next round and round after that knowing that Iommi, in the past has ditched him whenever the bigger name singer wanted back into the band. So... Basically give Martin the boot once, maybe shame on Iommi. Give Martin the boot twice or three times? Shame On Martin. He didn't HAVE to come back. Iommi didn't hold a gun to his head and force him to return to Sabbath.
                        I make the devil laugh and angels wail. Forever I will reside beyond the pale.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by cwilder86 View Post
                          Give Martin the boot twice or three times? Shame On Martin. He didn't HAVE to come back. Iommi didn't hold a gun to his head and force him to return to Sabbath.
                          People make mistakes. Maybe it was a great source of pride for him to be Sabbath's singer? Maybe many promises were made to him? Maybe he was a naive soul who hoped things would be different each time he came back. Maybe he needed the work. Or maybe he needed the gig for his sense of self-worth. He's come off as a sensitive guy in the interviews I've read.

                          All I'm really saying is that we can't possibly know every factor that figured in his decision-making. I doubt it is really so black and white that you can say Martin simply didn't have to come back and no one forced him. It's very easy to say you wouldn't have come back if you were in his shoes, but if I had the skill and opportunity to sing for that band, I might allow myself to be treated a little poorly. Who knows? I really don't know what I would've done in his shoes.

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                          • #28
                            Another reason I think Tony I. should have gone out with Martin under a different name, you don't drag around a marquee name like BS when your current singer is a"stop gap" between Ozzy & RJD. T. Martin is a fine singer, and Iommi gets cudos for hiring him, they certainly made great respectable, if not commercially viable music, I really think keeping the name BS actually hurt record sales and concert tickets in the US. People weren't buying a band with one original player, even if he is the player...
                            "Music is so sacred to me that I canít hear wishy-washy nonsense just played for the sake of selling records."
                            R. Blackmore

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                            • #29
                              In 1991 Martin wanted to do a softer solo album anyways from what I understand. As Neil Murray would say in 1995 he joined knowing that at some point Geezer would come back.
                              When the chance of the reunion with Dio came there wasnt room for himself or Tony Martin in the band at the same time. But things with Dio didnt go so well at first. A split came with Tony/Geezer & Ronnie. And Iommi called Tony Martin to rejoin Black Sabbath. Tony Martin was working on his "Back Where I Belong" album, and said he couldnt. Work continued with Dio, a couple of months later More problems with Dio and again a call to Tony Martin. Martin was free at the time so he and the two re-record the Dehumanizer material that existed. Due to the change in vocalists, some lyrics and vocal melodies were re-done and new music was written. Tony Iommi was ok with the work being done with Martin but Warner Bros records pressured Iommi to get Dio back (or Ozzy). Mostly due to the amount of money and press that was involved and already done in advance. So Tony Martin is booted from the band for Dio. Some of the work done with Martin became 'Cross Purposes' later on. If you listen to the Cozy Powell 1991 tapes you can hear 'Psychophobia' for an exsample.

                              Martin: "It was pretty soon after I started my solo album I had a call to go join up again, but I decided to carry on with the solo thing. Then I had another call a few months later, and decided to give it a try. I met the guys at a concert here in Birmingham NEC and they were great towards me, so in I went. Tony Only said it had been hard workin with Ronnie and didnít really expand on it so I didnít ask."
                              Pain and Poison Roses

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Wicked Cricket View Post
                                Another reason I think Tony I. should have gone out with Martin under a different name, you don't drag around a marquee name like BS when your current singer is a"stop gap" between Ozzy & RJD. T. Martin is a fine singer, and Iommi gets cudos for hiring him, they certainly made great respectable, if not commercially viable music, I really think keeping the name BS actually hurt record sales and concert tickets in the US. People weren't buying a band with one original player, even if he is the player...
                                I agree, Martin is great, but this REALLY is NOT sabbath.... that's the one thing that knocks Martin down - all this baggage he must carry, and so many great shoes to fill! It's impossible. If they had just made a new band - it would have been fresh and new and free.

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