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Was Martin abused by Sabbath?

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  • VikingChrist
    replied
    Originally posted by Ray Rules View Post
    Now, if he was mistreated and disrespected as a friend? HELL YEAH, with whole capital letters on the sentence.

    Yes, but what makes you think they were ever friends? I don't mean to say they hated each other, but I've never seen any evidence to suggest that their relationship extented to anything outside of the band at any time. There are a great many bands where the members function simply as co-workers and little more.

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  • unplugged-unfretted
    replied
    Originally posted by Ray Rules View Post
    Yes, you are right. There was a void between 1997 and 2009. No social cals, no meetings, no nothing. From what I was told the first time TM spoke and Iommi after more than a decade was in Russia, when Tony Martin Band performed and Iommi was there as a guest and they met backstage. What happened? Only social talk "how u doing?" and etc.

    Contact between then is so inexistent that somebody (whose name I won't say) played Iommi some instrumental tracks from Tony Martin's Scream and Tony Iommi only nod and said he didn't knew what was that.

    So you can imagine how "well" Tony Martin took his forth boot from Sabbath.
    Such a fascinating history - - - it all really makes you wonder! ...and the relationship thing, in my opinion, reflects heavily on/in the music too.

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  • Ray Rules
    replied
    Originally posted by unplugged-unfretted View Post
    hmmmm..... the history is fascinating.
    I get the impression from interviews that Iommi and Martin totally broke contact, finally.
    Yes, you are right. There was a void between 1997 and 2009. No social cals, no meetings, no nothing. From what I was told the first time TM spoke and Iommi after more than a decade was in Russia, when Tony Martin Band performed and Iommi was there as a guest and they met backstage. What happened? Only social talk "how u doing?" and etc.

    Contact between then is so inexistent that somebody (whose name I won't say) played Iommi some instrumental tracks from Tony Martin's Scream and Tony Iommi only nod and said he didn't knew what was that.

    So you can imagine how "well" Tony Martin took his forth boot from Sabbath.

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  • unplugged-unfretted
    replied
    Originally posted by Ray Rules View Post
    If Tony Martin was abused? I don't think so. For my concern there is no abuse when you do a job, is payed for it but then you are, finally, let go.

    Now, if he was mistreated and disrespected as a friend? HELL YEAH, with whole capital letters on the sentence.

    As DioSword said before, Tony Martin came in to save the day four times. I mean, brother, I for one would do that once, twice if much. Of course that we don't know how much he was offered back then, but as even Tony himself had said "before all things, I'm a fan". For that, for only that, I think he should be treated more equally and more respectfully.

    Btw, even Geoff Nicholls who is best mate with Tony Iommi (they even walk their dogs together when Tony go to UK) got booted by Black Sabbath. According to that I was told, when Ozzy called BS for a Ozzyfest somewhere circa 2006, his only (by that I say Sharon) condition was to bring Ozzy's keyboard player (Adam Wakeman) together. Why that? He was cheaper than Geoff.

    From what I was told, Tony came to Geoff and explained the situation. He needed the cash and he needed the gig. Geoff said ok, took his things and left, no hurt feelings, still being pal with Iommi. But he was fired once by Iommi, Tony Martin goot the boot four times... That's too much for a friendship, I guess.
    hmmmm..... the history is fascinating.
    I get the impression from interviews that Iommi and Martin totally broke contact, finally.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ray Rules
    replied
    If Tony Martin was abused? I don't think so. For my concern there is no abuse when you do a job, is payed for it but then you are, finally, let go.

    Now, if he was mistreated and disrespected as a friend? HELL YEAH, with whole capital letters on the sentence.

    As DioSword said before, Tony Martin came in to save the day four times. I mean, brother, I for one would do that once, twice if much. Of course that we don't know how much he was offered back then, but as even Tony himself had said "before all things, I'm a fan". For that, for only that, I think he should be treated more equally and more respectfully.

    Btw, even Geoff Nicholls who is best mate with Tony Iommi (they even walk their dogs together when Tony go to UK) got booted by Black Sabbath. According to that I was told, when Ozzy called BS for a Ozzyfest somewhere circa 2006, his only (by that I say Sharon) condition was to bring Ozzy's keyboard player (Adam Wakeman) together. Why that? He was cheaper than Geoff.

    From what I was told, Tony came to Geoff and explained the situation. He needed the cash and he needed the gig. Geoff said ok, took his things and left, no hurt feelings, still being pal with Iommi. But he was fired once by Iommi, Tony Martin goot the boot four times... That's too much for a friendship, I guess.

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  • Sabbathfan78
    replied
    Originally posted by Wicked Cricket View Post
    Another reason I think Tony I. should have gone out with Martin under a different name, you don't drag around a marquee name like BS when your current singer is a"stop gap" between Ozzy & RJD. T. Martin is a fine singer, and Iommi gets cudos for hiring him, they certainly made great respectable, if not commercially viable music, I really think keeping the name BS actually hurt record sales and concert tickets in the US. People weren't buying a band with one original player, even if he is the player...
    I agree. The name should've been changed before Seventh Star came out. Weather it was a completely new name or Iommi just used his, a change should've been made. It would've given the material and a little more credibility with a lot of music fans. I saw them live in 1995 and even though it was a good show and Iommi was there and they were playing Sabbath tunes, it still didn't quite feel like Black Sabbath to me. Weath it was no Geezer, Ozzy or Dio there was just something missing that night for me.

    I think a name change would've brought some more album sales. I'm not sure if it would've been significantly more considering IRS records didn't seem into promoting the material much at all. But that could've had to do with the material having the Black Sabbath name on it. The company knew nobody would be buying it so they probably decided not to bother with heavy promotion at all.

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  • unplugged-unfretted
    replied
    Originally posted by Wicked Cricket View Post
    Another reason I think Tony I. should have gone out with Martin under a different name, you don't drag around a marquee name like BS when your current singer is a"stop gap" between Ozzy & RJD. T. Martin is a fine singer, and Iommi gets cudos for hiring him, they certainly made great respectable, if not commercially viable music, I really think keeping the name BS actually hurt record sales and concert tickets in the US. People weren't buying a band with one original player, even if he is the player...
    I agree, Martin is great, but this REALLY is NOT sabbath.... that's the one thing that knocks Martin down - all this baggage he must carry, and so many great shoes to fill! It's impossible. If they had just made a new band - it would have been fresh and new and free.

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  • EDTRADER
    replied
    In 1991 Martin wanted to do a softer solo album anyways from what I understand. As Neil Murray would say in 1995 he joined knowing that at some point Geezer would come back.
    When the chance of the reunion with Dio came there wasnt room for himself or Tony Martin in the band at the same time. But things with Dio didnt go so well at first. A split came with Tony/Geezer & Ronnie. And Iommi called Tony Martin to rejoin Black Sabbath. Tony Martin was working on his "Back Where I Belong" album, and said he couldnt. Work continued with Dio, a couple of months later More problems with Dio and again a call to Tony Martin. Martin was free at the time so he and the two re-record the Dehumanizer material that existed. Due to the change in vocalists, some lyrics and vocal melodies were re-done and new music was written. Tony Iommi was ok with the work being done with Martin but Warner Bros records pressured Iommi to get Dio back (or Ozzy). Mostly due to the amount of money and press that was involved and already done in advance. So Tony Martin is booted from the band for Dio. Some of the work done with Martin became 'Cross Purposes' later on. If you listen to the Cozy Powell 1991 tapes you can hear 'Psychophobia' for an exsample.

    Martin: "It was pretty soon after I started my solo album I had a call to go join up again, but I decided to carry on with the solo thing. Then I had another call a few months later, and decided to give it a try. I met the guys at a concert here in Birmingham NEC and they were great towards me, so in I went. Tony Only said it had been hard workin with Ronnie and didnít really expand on it so I didnít ask."

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  • Wicked Cricket
    replied
    Another reason I think Tony I. should have gone out with Martin under a different name, you don't drag around a marquee name like BS when your current singer is a"stop gap" between Ozzy & RJD. T. Martin is a fine singer, and Iommi gets cudos for hiring him, they certainly made great respectable, if not commercially viable music, I really think keeping the name BS actually hurt record sales and concert tickets in the US. People weren't buying a band with one original player, even if he is the player...

    Leave a comment:


  • J Hillenburg
    replied
    Originally posted by cwilder86 View Post
    Give Martin the boot twice or three times? Shame On Martin. He didn't HAVE to come back. Iommi didn't hold a gun to his head and force him to return to Sabbath.
    People make mistakes. Maybe it was a great source of pride for him to be Sabbath's singer? Maybe many promises were made to him? Maybe he was a naive soul who hoped things would be different each time he came back. Maybe he needed the work. Or maybe he needed the gig for his sense of self-worth. He's come off as a sensitive guy in the interviews I've read.

    All I'm really saying is that we can't possibly know every factor that figured in his decision-making. I doubt it is really so black and white that you can say Martin simply didn't have to come back and no one forced him. It's very easy to say you wouldn't have come back if you were in his shoes, but if I had the skill and opportunity to sing for that band, I might allow myself to be treated a little poorly. Who knows? I really don't know what I would've done in his shoes.

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  • cwilder86
    replied
    This is probably my biggest and only complaint with Tony Iommi, as much as I admire him as a musician. I really do feel like some of the others on this board that Martin was shafted. But a good point that someone else brought up also Martin was the one who came back for the next round and round after that knowing that Iommi, in the past has ditched him whenever the bigger name singer wanted back into the band. So... Basically give Martin the boot once, maybe shame on Iommi. Give Martin the boot twice or three times? Shame On Martin. He didn't HAVE to come back. Iommi didn't hold a gun to his head and force him to return to Sabbath.

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  • Freddy the O
    replied
    Martin was basically just a pawn, and I certainly don't think he deserved the kind of treatment that he got. On the other hand, if you look at the problems Iommi had with Ozzy, Dio, Gillan and Hughes, whether they were due to drugs or simple disagreements, I can see why he chose to keep Martin in tow. But that doesn't make it more fair.

    Overall, no, I don't think Martin was treated properly. But he's fortunate to have left behind a great legacy. I don't think any of the albums he was featured on are masterpieces, but there some truly fantastic songs to be found on all of them.

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  • unplugged-unfretted
    replied
    Originally posted by J Hillenburg View Post
    He worked tirelessly by being dependable, placing the band ahead of himself and painting the band in the best possible light. There were no ego trips from Martin; it was all about the band.
    ...he clearly seems like a very nice, very humble character... but so often "nice guys finish last".

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  • J Hillenburg
    replied
    He worked tirelessly by being dependable, placing the band ahead of himself and painting the band in the best possible light. There were no ego trips from Martin; it was all about the band.
    Last edited by J Hillenburg; 09-05-2010, 08:56 AM.

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  • unplugged-unfretted
    replied
    Originally posted by J Hillenburg View Post
    He worked tirelessly promoting the band. .
    In which ways?

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