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Cross Purposes Live

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  • #16
    Listened to this today, Symptom Of The Universe played in full.

    I also have the DVD to this show.

    I could’ve gotten the original CD/VHS Double pack on eBay but it was going for a couple hundred bucks.
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
    ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

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    • #17
      Originally posted by OzzyIsDio View Post
      I could’ve gotten the original CD/VHS Double pack on eBay but it was going for a couple hundred bucks.
      Really? Wow...I've got one...bought it at a second hand store back in the late 90s for something like 5$! One of my most valued possessions I do have to say...even more so now I suppose...

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Charger View Post
        Really? Wow...I've got one...bought it at a second hand store back in the late 90s for something like 5$! One of my most valued possessions I do have to say...even more so now I suppose...
        Yes Charger it was brand new, I paid a few bucks for mine, the VHS has more songs than the DVD I think.
        "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
        "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
        ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by OzzyIsDio View Post
          Yes Charger it was brand new, I paid a few bucks for mine, the VHS has more songs than the DVD I think.
          Yes it does. It's the whole show minus Children Of The Sea which was left out due to some techincal issues if I recall.

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          • #20
            To my knowledge, ALL DVD releases of Cross Purposes Live up to now, no matter how 'official' they looked, were bootlegs more or less. They are all sourced from the VHS, and several of them are exactly as complete as the VHS. The best one, AFAIK, is fan-made and not commercially available, but pretty widely circulated among bootleg collectors. There is definitely no point these days to pay much money for the VHS cassette, except for nostalgic reasons.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Sabbabbath View Post
              There is definitely no point these days to pay much money for the VHS cassette, except for nostalgic reasons.
              Collector's item. Those were quite rare even during the day and they are pretty goddamn rare now. Ofcourse no one would play one anymore anyways.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Charger View Post
                Collector's item. Those were quite rare even during the day and they are pretty goddamn rare now. Ofcourse no one would play one anymore anyways.
                I could’ve gotten one easy back in the day, I remember seeing it for sale at Vintage Vinyl when it came out, but I wasn’t the completist I am now, and I didn’t like Tony Martin back in the day.

                I was tempted to buy the one I saw on eBay, but a few hundred I couldn’t spare, but I was able to get the CD and DVD separately.

                I do enjoy listening to it.
                Last edited by OzzyIsDio; 01-27-2018, 07:42 AM.
                "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
                "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
                ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Charger View Post
                  Collector's item. Those were quite rare even during the day and they are pretty goddamn rare now. Ofcourse no one would play one anymore anyways.
                  True. I didn't really consider that because I PERSONALLY find it pointless. :-) Anyway, my main point was that there do exist DVD versions that are as complete as the VHS release, are qualitywise at least as good as the incomplete DVD copies, and don't even cost anything. :-)
                  Last edited by Sabbabbath; 01-27-2018, 09:09 AM.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Sabbabbath View Post
                    True. I didn't really consider that because I PERSONALLY find it pointless. :-) Anyway, my main point was that there do exist DVD versions that are as complete as the VHS release, are qualitywise at least as good as the incomplete DVD copies, and don't even cost anything. :-)
                    Yes but those are bootlegs and bootlegs of official releases...and those shouldn't be obtained by anyone especially since most of them have been done by people just for money. It's one thing to trade fan made recordings (been doing that for years and years now) with fellow fans that is great! But when it comes to official releases...well that's just piracy.

                    Originally posted by OzzyIsDio View Post
                    I could’ve gotten one easy back in the day, I remember seeing it for sale at Vintage Vinyl when it came out, but I wasn’t the completist I am now, and I didn’t like Tony Martin back in the day.
                    That is unfortunate.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Charger View Post
                      Yes but those are bootlegs and bootlegs of official releases...and those shouldn't be obtained by anyone especially since most of them have been done by people just for money. It's one thing to trade fan made recordings (been doing that for years and years now) with fellow fans that is great! But when it comes to official releases...well that's just piracy.



                      That is unfortunate.
                      It is unfortunate Charger, I still remember walking into Vintage Vinyl and seeing it right there in the Black Sabbath section, wish I would’ve bought it, I could shoot myself at times when I don’t buy things when they’re available, just like the 70’s Sabbath vinyl box set, at least I was able to get the Ten Year War Box Set recently.
                      "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
                      "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
                      ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Charger View Post
                        Yes but those are bootlegs and bootlegs of official releases...and those shouldn't be obtained by anyone especially since most of them have been done by people just for money. It's one thing to trade fan made recordings (been doing that for years and years now) with fellow fans that is great! But when it comes to official releases...well that's just piracy.
                        As I already said, the best available copy I have seen was not made for money, but freely shared among fans. To my knowledge, and according to Joe S., none of the DVD copies were supported by the band - they are ALL either pirate material (like the incomplete ones I have seen) or fan-made and freely traded (as the complete ones I have seen). I do understand your point about pirate copies of official releases, and I mostly agree with it. But Cross Purposes Live has been out of print for MANY years. Even if you buy one of the VHS copies now, it's not the band or even their record company who gets the money. And that's their own fault: they KNOW it's out of print, like all the other Martin era stuff. They could have re-released those albums any time. I fail to see how buying a used copy of TYR or Forbidden or the Cross Purposes Live VHS from some private person or even a company would benefit the band. Do I overlook anything?

                        Plus, the Cross Purposes Live VHS is a special case in that it is an obsolete format. You said it yourself: No one would play one anymore anyways. Exactly. Then how to watch it? The only way would be to copy the VHS to DVD - something you need the skills and equipment for. And if you do that, and if that's OK, how does that benefit the band better than getting a free, fan-made VHS-sourced DVD?

                        As soon as the band puts out a DVD re-issue, which I expect to be much better anyway because it will hopefully be sourced from the master video tapes rather than from the VHS tape, all the VHS>DVD copies should be put in the rubbish bin of course.

                        To be sure: My point here was not to promote anything, just to answer a question that was asked above, namely whether the DVD releases are more incomplete than the VHS. The answer is: some, but not all.
                        Last edited by Sabbabbath; 01-27-2018, 10:38 AM.

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                        • #27
                          There’s one on eBay right now, new going for $150, new cd and vhs.

                          Price came down a bit.
                          "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
                          "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
                          ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            A couple of things .... a DVD release by the band , does not exist ..... when one does it will be digital vs analog ,,, analog always has something special , no different with this baby here!

                            VHS could last a lifetime (nothing is textbook , everything is practice) , I've watched mine a thousand times , as good as new .... I have 3 sets ,,,, 2 unopen , they run about 75 to 300 dollars a set (used or new) , the CD VHS doublepack should NOT loose value when a new set comes about .... collectors love this set! (underground following)

                            OID , if you found a legit new set for 150 , in good shape , that's not bad ..... offer him 100 and see what he says ,, go no higher than 150 (lower serial numbers catch a higher price) ,,,, I will cover half my brother.


                            God Bless


                            Edit .... Fantastic concert!!
                            Last edited by BACK TO EDEN; 01-27-2018, 08:32 PM. Reason: Such a great video!

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                            • #29
                              The DVD releases that came out around the end of 2010/early 2011 (if I recall) are as complete as the VHS. If I remember correctly, they were supposedly authorised by (or licensed from) the company that had owned or filmed the footage. So, still at least partly unofficial. I'll have to check, but I'm fairly certain it didn't look VHS sourced.

                              It looks like it was sourced from the master used for the VHS, with little to no restoration or improvement, but it doesn't look like the VHS rips I've seen.

                              By the way, wasn't 'Immaculate Deception' also played on the night?
                              Last edited by SweetSymptom; 01-28-2018, 03:41 AM.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by SweetSymptom View Post
                                The DVD releases that came out around the end of 2010/early 2011 (if I recall) are as complete as the VHS. If I remember correctly, they were supposedly authorised by (or licensed from) the company that had owned or filmed the footage. So, still at least partly unofficial. I'll have to check, but I'm fairly certain it didn't look VHS sourced.

                                It looks like it was sourced from the master used for the VHS, with little to no restoration or improvement, but it doesn't look like the VHS rips I've seen.

                                By the way, wasn't 'Immaculate Deception' also played on the night?

                                Immaculate Deception wasn't played at that show. Sabbathlive.com mistakenly listed the song after Neon Knights and before The Wizard, but what was played was actually Psychophobia.

                                If you refer to the Eagle Rock Japan DVD relase, Joe mentioned it here:
                                https://www.black-sabbath.com/2011/0...oses_live_dvd/
                                He wrote that Tony's manager confirmed that the release was "definitely not authorized or sponsored by Tony Iommi / Black Sabbath".

                                Here's a picture of the cover:


                                To my knowledge the original VHS/CD was released by Picture Music International - are they associated with Eagle Rock anyway?

                                Fellow member Leonid told me he had checked that DVD, and in his opinion it was clearly an upconverted (thus double-encoded) NTSC 720x480 copy of his own NTSC 352x480 VHS-transfer. I know that Leonid carries out really good transfers which sometimes look better than the original due to the use of the right filters etc, which might explain why it looked better than a VHS-transfer for you.

                                The best version AFAIK is this VHS-transfer:


                                It also has the advantage of not being converted PAL>NTSC (the original release was PAL) which would be an unnecessary loss of quality.

                                Again, I am not promoting the purchase of bootlegs or pirated material (the best DVD version of this release is available for free anyway). Just discussing the official vs. pirate issue. Since the band hasn't authorized the Eagle release (nor any other DVD release so far), I doubt it is legitimate - but I might be wrong since I don't really know how that licensing stuff works legally?
                                Last edited by Sabbabbath; 01-28-2018, 06:02 AM.

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