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Your Preference of "Eternal Idol" Vocalists

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  • Your Preference of "Eternal Idol" Vocalists

    Since this came up in another thread. I prefer Tony Martin.

  • #2
    Re: Your Preference of "Eternal Idol" Vocalists

    This is tough, I think Ray Gillen sounds better on it, but then again, the material was written with his voice in mind, so it's not really fair to Tony Martin.

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    • #3
      Re: Your Preference of "Eternal Idol" Vocalists

      I love Ray Gillen but he actually sounded out of place on the demos-- this is probably because he was new in the band and he probably would have been better on the final mixes, but Tony sounds great on the finished version.

      I always thought Iommi's choice of vocalists was interesting here. After Ozzy, he hired 3 very well-known vocalists who had had success with other bands. Then with Eternal Idol, he did a 180 and hired the unknown Ray Gillen. Then, when he left, Iommi hired ANOTHER unknown in Tony Martin. Anybody have any idea why this was the case? Did Iommi simply want to do an album with some undiscovered talent?

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      • #4
        Re: Your Preference of "Eternal Idol" Vocalists

        Ray Gillen
        i heard 2 bootlegs with Ray and it was much better alive then with Martin

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        • #5
          Re: Your Preference of "Eternal Idol" Vocalists

          [ QUOTE ]
          I always thought Iommi's choice of vocalists was interesting here. After Ozzy, he hired 3 very well-known vocalists who had had success with other bands. Then with Eternal Idol, he did a 180 and hired the unknown Ray Gillen.

          [/ QUOTE ]

          Well, look where the band was at the time. The situation with Hughes fell apart pretty quickly, and they had to hire someone on the fly - you didn't have the usual procedure of listening to dozens of tapes, pondering your choice.

          By all accounts, Ray got the audition because he was a friend of Dave Spitz, who recommended him to Tony. It was very much a seat of the pants maneuver.
          Joe Siegler, Webmaster - Black Sabbath Online
          View my CD collection | View my movie collection | What I've been listening to

          "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." (Matthew 25:41)

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          • #6
            Re: Your Preference of "Eternal Idol" Vocalists

            As much as I love the "Eternal Idol" era shows, and as much as I love Tony Martin, I must confess the "Eternal Idol" album is one I never managed to get totally into with Martin singing. I always found his vocals unnatural here, even before I even knew of the Gillen thing. Then I heard Ray Gillen's version of the album and I instantly loved it !

            So : Ray :-)
            Tony Iommi Fact #216: In fact, most demolition companies donít use explosives to collapse buildings, only a good stereo and a copy of ďDehumanizerĒ.
            "Black Sabbath : la BÍte venue de Birmingham"

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            • #7
              Re: Your Preference of "Eternal Idol" Vocalists

              Interesting- now it's fifty-fifty, but i prefer tony Martin. For me he was a best Sabbath singer.

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              • #8
                Re: Your Preference of "Eternal Idol" Vocalists

                I am unable to vote, as I haven't heard all of Ray Gillen's material with Eternal Idol. I only have one track of him singin' anything on this album, and that's "Ancient Warrior" (which is quite a fantastic rendition, if I do say so myself...). Could anybody, per chance, hook me up with a copy of Gillen's Eternal Idol material?
                How could this poison be the dream of my soul
                How did my fantasies take complete control, yeah

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                • #9
                  Re: Your Preference of "Eternal Idol" Vocalists

                  I'm listening to the Eternal Idol demos bootleg as I write this, and although Ray Gillen's voice is great, I prefer the Tony Martin version. Having said that, Tony did have the advantage of singing on a properly produced and mixed version, whereas Ray's version of the album has only been released as a bootleg. A good quality bootleg, but a bootleg nonetheless

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                  • #10
                    Re: Your Preference of "Eternal Idol" Vocalists

                    Ray's voice was very good but it was a little high for my taste. It reminds me a lot of the thousand and thousand power metal vocalists, everyone of them trying to see who can sing higher.

                    The thing I like with Martin's voice, is his "bluesiness" (is this a word?), and the raspiness of his voice, and the fact that even having a somehow low and raspy voice, he can hit some incredible high notes (in Carrie on Forcefield II there are some imposible notes he hits).

                    More than that, I think Martin's voice is so melodic, that he could sing some Kreator or Sodom death metal song and still sound melodic. Martin is such a chameleon that he can sing with a high voice sometimes, add some Dio flavor if he wants, add a nasal tone to some songs, sing Coverdale classics **very well**, sound aggressive as with Giuntini, poppy as with Empire, etc, but always sounding like Martin. He's very versatil singer.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Your Preference of "Eternal Idol" Vocalists

                      [ QUOTE ]
                      I'm listening to the Eternal Idol demos bootleg as I write this, and although Ray Gillen's voice is great

                      [/ QUOTE ]

                      There's multiple versions of this. I'm aware of three versions of the thing with Ray Gillen on it. One is fairly early on, as the guitar solos aren't on the songs. The other is more advanced, has solos, and basically sounds like the finished one but with Ray on it.

                      Then there's a third, which is all instrumental.

                      None of them have Scarlet Pimpernel on 'em. That might be where Bev Bevan shows up, kind of like the mysterious "flute" on Born Again. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
                      Joe Siegler, Webmaster - Black Sabbath Online
                      View my CD collection | View my movie collection | What I've been listening to

                      "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." (Matthew 25:41)

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                      • #12
                        Re: Your Preference of "Eternal Idol" Vocalists

                        [ QUOTE ]


                        The thing I like with Martin's voice, is his "bluesiness" (is this a word?), and the raspiness of his voice, and the fact that even having a somehow low and raspy voice, he can hit some incredible high notes (in Carrie on Forcefield II there are some imposible notes he hits).


                        [/ QUOTE ]

                        You know,thats a bit of an illusion.TM's speaking voice is actually rather higher than normal so when he sings lower it is actually below his normal range.It was a perfect technique for conveying his incredible range-something like 5.5 octaves.What I love is that he will frequently skip octaves in the course of a single melody line-going for a note much higher than expected.

                        I prefere TM on Eternal Idol.Ray had a nice voice but not the range or technique of Tony,and his tone was sometimes "girlish" to my ear.Live he was ok,but didnt hold a candle to TM at his prime in 89 and 90.It's a shame too many are only familiar with his lackluster performances from the CP and Forbidden tours.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Your Preference of "Eternal Idol" Vocalists

                          [ QUOTE ]
                          I prefere TM on Eternal Idol.Ray had a nice voice but not the range or technique of Tony,and his tone was sometimes "girlish" to my ear.

                          [/ QUOTE ]

                          Keep in mind the versions of EI with Ray Gillen weren't completed. It's not totally fair to judge it as Tony's work was a polished finished product. The Ray Gillen version was not.
                          Joe Siegler, Webmaster - Black Sabbath Online
                          View my CD collection | View my movie collection | What I've been listening to

                          "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." (Matthew 25:41)

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                          • #14
                            Re: Your Preference of "Eternal Idol" Vocalists *DELETED*

                            Post deleted by Joe Siegler

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                            • #15
                              Re: Your Preference of "Eternal Idol" Vocalists

                              [ QUOTE ]
                              [ QUOTE ]
                              I prefere TM on Eternal Idol.Ray had a nice voice but not the range or technique of Tony,and his tone was sometimes "girlish" to my ear.

                              [/ QUOTE ]

                              Keep in mind the versions of EI with Ray Gillen weren't completed. It's not totally fair to judge it as Tony's work was a polished finished product. The Ray Gillen version was not.

                              [/ QUOTE ]

                              Right, but on the other side, vocal melodies were written by Ray for his voice, and it's not fair too...

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