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On rescuing Tony Martin's career and legacy

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  • On rescuing Tony Martin's career and legacy

    I love the whole TM stuff, with BS it’s magical… I am a big fan, I think I can say we know each other personally, keep in touch for about 15 years now. I remember there was a time when, after leaving Sabbs, he was so busy and kept releasing one strong album after another, esp. 2002/2003 was sweet (see below).

    He is no touring anymore, I know it has to do with money problem, but again, I am not sure if bands can get that much money off records any longer, looking at Megadeth or Iron Maiden.

    Low profile doesn't do any good to his career and his BS era legacy.

    Why not checking the following formula (and I am not innovative here):

    1. original album release with Tony Martin as the name of the band
    2. touring
    3. website integrated with tweeter, fb, youtube, instagram
    4. other ways (merchandise, books, etc.)

    There are many similar artist who did succeed in their solo careers beyond their past big bands, examples: Bruce Dickinson, Dio, Halford (off-note: Tony respects Rob much, and told me he was so happy when Rob appreciated his music once). And their roads were usally bumpy, at least Dickinson’s and Halford’s. Jorn Lande serves here as a modest example as well: http://www.jornlande.com/

    Tony is complainig about music industry nowadays, and music downloading (stealing). I think he should turn the situation into victory and check where people download his music most, and plan touring there. He can use data via http://www.musicmetric.com/ They say Iron Maiden did so.

    Tony should be on the road again with his own album, not off the road singing to grill/bbq. I know it was a cameo appearance but still, not encouraging for the artist with his talent and history.
    I do not get lamenting Tony should be treated by Sabbs better in this or that way. What should they be doing?

    Anyway such a talent, can’t go to waste. I mean I refuse to imagine he stops recording in near future, but I am aware it can happen, sadly!

    Just think if there were his name as band on the following records (Scream excluded – the only solo effort for ten years):

    • Giuntini Project II (1999)
    • The Cage (1999)
    • The Cage 2 (2002)
    • Trading Souls (2002)
    • Our Cross, Our Sins (2002)
    • M3: Classic ‘Snake Live, Vol. 1 (2003)
    • Scream (2005)
    • Giuntini Project III (2006)
    • Raven Ride (2006)
    • The Third Cage (2012)
    • Silver Horses (2012)
    • Giuntini Project IV (2013)

    Thank you. Any thoughts?
    "I don't sound like nobody"

  • #2
    He seems happy with his post Sabbath music. He apparently has made enough money to support himself. He can tour all over the world until he throws up. But if he never comes to America near me I'll never see it. So the tour aspect I really couldn't care less about. As with any artist no matter how big or well known they are if I like the music I'll buy it. I enjoy talking with other fans of that artist. If I enjoy it and they made money, I'm good.
    Pain and Poison Roses

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    • #3
      Originally posted by bulik View Post
      There are many similar artist who did succeed in their solo careers beyond their past big bands, examples: Bruce Dickinson, Dio, Halford (off-note: Tony respects Rob much, and told me he was so happy when Rob appreciated his music once). And their roads were usally bumpy, at least Dickinson’s and Halford’s.
      Unfortunately, I think a more accurate comparison in two of those examples would be to look at Blaze Bailey and Ripper Owens, both of whom, like Tony, came in, as more or less unknown singers, into big, successful bands to replace well-known and loved singers, and were later dropped when the previous singers returned when the bands in question realised (or accepted) that this was what their fans wanted.

      Tony, Blaze and Ripper are all technically great singers able to sing their predecessor's material pretty accurately but ultimately, most of us like familiarity in our rock bands of 1970s/80s origin, especially if it reminds us of the band's heyday and our youth. And, again unfortunately, since leaving Sabbath, Maiden and Priest, Tony, Blaze and Ripper have bumped along from project to project without repeating the "success" of their days with their big bands.
      Follow mens' eyes, As they look to the skies, The shifting shafts of shining, Weave the fabric of their dreams...

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      • #4
        Originally posted by MJD2013 View Post
        Unfortunately, I think a more accurate comparison in two of those examples would be to look at Blaze Bailey and Ripper Owens, both of whom, like Tony, came in, as more or less unknown singers, into big, successful bands to replace well-known and loved singers, and were later dropped when the previous singers returned when the bands in question realised (or accepted) that this was what their fans wanted.

        Tony, Blaze and Ripper are all technically great singers able to sing their predecessor's material pretty accurately but ultimately, most of us like familiarity in our rock bands of 1970s/80s origin, especially if it reminds us of the band's heyday and our youth. And, again unfortunately, since leaving Sabbath, Maiden and Priest, Tony, Blaze and Ripper have bumped along from project to project without repeating the "success" of their days with their big bands.
        True, very good point! I wonder if they're doing better compared to TM, maybe Blaze does.
        "I don't sound like nobody"

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        • #5
          Originally posted by bulik View Post
          True, very good point! I wonder if they're doing better compared to TM, maybe Blaze does.
          Well Blaze opened for Tony Martin!
          Pain and Poison Roses

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by EDTRADER View Post
            Well Blaze opened for Tony Martin!
            Well i was there!, at his 2012 show in Brum, really his hometown & to be honest the fans were not there, whether it was poor advertising by local promoters or their own fault by not advertising apart from facebook i don,t know.
            It is really a pity as said as he,s a great singer, i think i,ve got 7 out of those cd releases and his 2 solo albums, still looking for the Rondinelli one at a cheaper price!
            He has said on his facebook site that family issues come first, so i wish him well this year & when he,s ready to tour again i will be there just hope more support him next time
            As for Sabbath re-issues i don,t think it will happen this year - due to touring lets hope they are reissued & remastered soon

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by dudleysabbath View Post
              Well i was there!, at his 2012 show in Brum, really his hometown & to be honest the fans were not there, whether it was poor advertising by local promoters or their own fault by not advertising apart from facebook i don,t know.
              It is really a pity as said as he,s a great singer, i think i,ve got 7 out of those cd releases and his 2 solo albums, still looking for the Rondinelli one at a cheaper price!
              He has said on his facebook site that family issues come first, so i wish him well this year & when he,s ready to tour again i will be there just hope more support him next time
              As for Sabbath re-issues i don,t think it will happen this year - due to touring lets hope they are reissued & remastered soon
              He should check putting the following pieces together to get the competitive advantage over the circumstances:

              1. original album release with Tony Martin as the name of the band - I don't know about the music, but maybe it would be better just to give it to the band, reserving only vocals for himself (he would intervene into music of course).
              2. good pre- and on-tour advertising.
              3. touring - worth checking where people download his music most, and plan touring there. He can order data from http://www.musicmetric.com/
              4. develop website integrated with tweeter, fb, youtube, instagram
              5. combine it with other ways (merchandise, books, etc.)

              ...and hoping he can get more fanbase and money of it, in the future.

              It's hard, but you need to start somwhere, and use technology.

              He missed opportunity when BS re-released Eternal Idol - there was a product, and that was a good start for testing the above-mentioned formula. He could release "Eternal Idol: Live" album, with entire EI tracks plus fan faves (picked by fans on, official website, forums). Then he should release DVD of it, with extras.

              From this point of view release of Tony Martin era deluxe editions would be something for him, still, since it goes slowly, he should treat it as future opportunity to combine with solo releases.

              On the next solo release he should use material from his vaults (and I know he has lots of hidden treasures in his possesion).

              BTW, Rondinelli stuff is one of his best - i love it!
              Last edited by bulik; 01-19-2014, 03:50 AM.
              "I don't sound like nobody"

              Comment


              • #8
                And as Dickinson says, "you really have to target your customers and know exactly who they are and what you are going to deliver for them that is different".
                "I don't sound like nobody"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Some good points mate, to which my reply is:
                  Live album good idea, but Iommi has the rights to the songs, will he let TM use them and publish a live CD/DVD?
                  A live DVD costs a lot to film and post production costs, would any label put the money up for this?
                  Touring all well and good, but what venues could TM expect to play? Would any promoters take a chance to book gigs for this relatively unknown artist?
                  Playing small venues to a few hundred or less people could be a financial disaster or break even?


                  1. New album, new material, under a band name, say (The) Headless Cross, Eternal Idol or Cross Purposes, something that rings a bell with Sabbath and metal fans in general.
                  2. Hook up with some old pals for an all star line up, with names that people will know instantly and take an interest in.
                  Say Bob Daisly, Geoff Nicols, Bobby Rondinelli/Vinny Appice.
                  3. Song writing with the above mentioned Daisly/Nichols, proven track records with Sabbath and Ozzy..
                  4. Find a name guitarist with a decent history.
                  5. If all this comes off get a buzz and a an idea of what the fan bases of various members can bring to the table.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Outside of TM hooking up with Iommi again which we all know ain't ever gonna happen, the only way I could see him resurecting his carreer is if he was to hook up with some very well respected & popular musicians looking to form a band or do a side project outside of their current bands. Can't help but think Jake E Lee & Tony Martin would have made a much better pairing instead of the guy Jake's with now.

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                    • #11
                      I think we're all forgetting the realities of the Tony Martin Era. Sabbath were a joke at the time, poor selling rather lame albums and live shows in almost empty venues, and that's not hearsay, I was at almost every UK show the band done with Tony Martin.

                      Tony is a great singer, but it all should have been an Iommi solo project and I'm kinda glad that the era's been quietly written out of Sabbath's official history. Sabbath are again well regarded and have restored their legacy in the public minds despite not having Bill on board, that's both masterful and cynical marketing.

                      Another thing. At every show Tony Martin said the same things between every song every night, and every night he described where he was as "The Black Sabbath Project". It made me cringe 25 years ago and today it just shows me the reality of what was going on then - Iommi and bunch of hired hands dragging the band's name through the dirt.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        No I am not forgetting anything.
                        I was around for that era too.
                        But come on 'lame albums'?
                        As you can see with this forum many of us fans hold the TM era in pretty high regard.
                        If you saw nearly every UK show, they couldn't have been that bad could they?
                        So you forced yourself as some expense to follow a joke band playing lame songs?
                        TM is not the only singer who says the same stuff every night, many do.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by gazinwales View Post
                          No I am not forgetting anything.
                          I was around for that era too.
                          But come on 'lame albums'?
                          As you can see with this forum many of us fans hold the TM era in pretty high regard.
                          If you saw nearly every UK show, they couldn't have been that bad could they?
                          So you forced yourself as some expense to follow a joke band playing lame songs?
                          TM is not the only singer who says the same stuff every night, many do.
                          I went to so many shows as I was clinging the the remains of Sabbath, my favourite band, what else could I do? Tony Iommi was still playing a blinder and back then he was still doing big long solos in the live set. It was fantastic at times. As long as you didn't look behind you at the rows of empty seats.

                          It wasn't a joke band, it was just an average rock band with Iommi in it which raised it up several notches. Cozy Powell was fantastic live as well, his solos were amazing and I hate drum solos, I bought my t-shirt on the last tour when Clufetos was doing his thing.

                          The Martin era songs were all better live as the cheesy keyboards got buried in the mix and the equally cheesy vocal harmonies were reduced too. But it was all rather, I dunno, soulless maybe?
                          Tony Martin isn't a hard done to hero in the Sabbath story, he was a man doing a job at a time when his employer was running his company into the ground. He was never going to win in that situation despite his obvious talents: he has a superb voice.

                          I'd love to hear remixes of his albums, Headless Cross and Tyr especially. Stripped of keyboards, the far too lush harmonies and toughened up a little all round, I think they'd sound great.

                          I was there when they recorded the Cross Purposes Live DVD and talked to Tony M after the show, he was buoyant despite having had a cold which made his voice crack, but I though he sounded gritty during the show and he was pushing hard. Of the 15 or so times I saw him it was his best show I think.

                          It was by no means all bad.

                          PS His live banter was word for word every night, same place between songs, same inflection, it was like he was reading from a script and playing to camera. Never seen the like in my life, even Alice Cooper varies his banter a little bit between shows and his set is super tightly scripted.
                          Last edited by PTC; 01-26-2014, 02:14 PM. Reason: Typos and additional info

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                          • #14
                            TM not hard done by?
                            For me he kept the Sabbath flame burning, even it was a little low and flickering at times.
                            I had zero interest in the old Ozzy era, to me Sabbath was always Dio.
                            So when I heard TM who had a more than passing resemblance to RJD, I welcomed him with open arms.
                            I couldn't have care less who was in the band at the time, the albums sounded great and living in Australia, I was not going to see any live shows.
                            Back then was no internet and no shitty You Tube blurry and distorted audience recordings to pass sentence on.

                            Remixes of Headless Cross and Tyr, thankfully aren't happening. They sound great, could do with a bit of tweaking here and there.
                            The keyboards are part of the atmosphere of the sounds of those albums and should and will be left as they are.

                            Even you can see how TM got messed around by Iommi?
                            Three solid albums in, he gets dumped for Dio, then brought back in in case the Dio thing died, then dumped again.
                            Brought back after the Dio reunion went sour, for an album and tour, then dumped for the Ozzy reunion!
                            How would you feel if this were you getting hired and fired again by your boss?

                            Same banter every night, Kiss, Rush, Scorpians, and Nightwish are all gulity.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by gazinwales View Post
                              How would you feel if this were you getting hired and fired again by your boss?
                              Tony M's exact words on that stuff to me in '94 "Ah, that's just rock n roll". If he hadn't have come back after Dehumanizer I wonder where both Sabbath and he would have gone? Maybe better places for both of them.

                              The Rush thing is spot on, every half time break in the past few tours Geddy says they're going to get brain surgery and it makes me want to scream. Happily take you at your word on the others, never seen Nightwish and I haven't seen Scorpions or Kiss more than one night at a time in something like 30 years.
                              Funny how you can chart your life through music

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