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  • Originally posted by sellingmysoul View Post
    I love Tony Martin as a singer . I think when people listen to Black sabbath they just expect Ozzy's voice and for a long time I really did not listen to Dio with sabbath until Heaven and hell formed. Then I became a big fan of him.
    I can understand your point.

    But it's not just about the voice SMS. it's about the overall chemistry of the band as a whole. The Martin years by-and-large sorely lacked that, in spite of a few "shining" moments.

    I agree that Martin had a good voice, but there was nothing truly unique about it. It's simply Dokken meets Dio, for better or worse. 😑

    Comment


    • Originally posted by A Sabbath Historian View Post

      I can understand your point.

      But it's not just about the voice SMS. it's about the overall chemistry of the band as a whole. The Martin years by-and-large sorely lacked that, in spite of a few "shining" moments.

      I agree that Martin had a good voice, but there was nothing truly unique about it. It's simply Dokken meets Dio, for better or worse. 😑
      What you need to understand is this sound that you perceive in your brain is because your brain doesn’t perceive the sound correctly. It’s a classic case of two channel fatigue , It’s very common in the audiophile world, And by most of your comments in most of these threads you show a true lack of understanding for quality music if it’s not by the people you want to hear. As you said a reunion is not Just about the music it’s also about the people. It’s always about the music, and the Martin era delivers as good or better than anything that came before it or after it, you’re suffering from what’s called listening fatigue. It’s not Ozzy if it’s not DIO your brain doesn’t perceive the sound correctly. It would be like someone saying the only era of deep purple that matters is the mark 2 era. It’s not an insult it’s just the facts , take it as a learning experience, But I digress -)

      God bless

      Comment


      • Originally posted by BACK TO EDEN View Post

        Well stated my brother!

        Without the Martin era Sabbath are so much less.
        ....and yet, had the Martin era continued the REAL Black Sabbath would've never been inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame or the UK Music Hall of Fame. For the record, they're clearly proud to be included. And frankly, they should be.

        Legacy matters.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by A Sabbath Historian View Post

          ....and yet, had the Martin era continued the REAL Black Sabbath would've never been inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame or the UK Music Hall of Fame. For the record, they're clearly proud to be included. And frankly, they should be.

          Legacy matters.
          As I stated above your perception of sound and what you need it to be has robbed you of what quality music is actually being displayed. It’s not an insult, it’s something you can learn as you start to understand perception of music versus the reality of music. What you’re saying here is like a woman who needs her purse to say Louis Vuitton for her to be able to enjoy it. Nothing but perception an image. I’m only here to help you historian.

          God bless

          Comment


          • Originally posted by BACK TO EDEN View Post

            What you need to understand is this sound that you perceive in your brain is because your brain doesn’t perceive the sound correctly. It’s a classic case of two channel fatigue , It’s very common in the audiophile world, And by most of your comments in most of these threads you show a true lack of understanding for quality music if it’s not by the people you want to hear. As you said a reunion is not Just about the music it’s also about the people. It’s always about the music, and the Martin era delivers as good or better than anything that came before it or after it, you’re suffering from what’s called listening fatigue. It’s not Ozzy if it’s not DIO your brain doesn’t perceive the sound correctly. It would be like someone saying the only era of deep purple that matters is the mark 2 era. It’s not an insult it’s just the facts , take it as a learning experience, But I digress -)

            God bless
            To clarify, I'm also someone who believes that the Mk. II lineup of Deep Purple is the only one that really matters. However, that doesn't mean that there aren't any decent moments from later lineups.




            Comment


            • Originally posted by BACK TO EDEN View Post

              As I stated above your perception of sound and what you need it to be has robbed you of what quality music is actually being displayed. It’s not an insult, it’s something you can learn as you start to understand perception of music versus the reality of music. What you’re saying here is like a woman who needs her purse to say Louis Vuitton for her to be able to enjoy it. Nothing but perception an image. I’m only here to help you historian.

              God bless
              .... No need to "help" me BTE, I'm doing fine thank you. As always, you're working too hard trying to convince me that the Martin era is more significant than it really is. Not an insult either, just an observation.

              Like I stated before, while the Martin era is certainly part of the band's history, it contributed nothing to the band's legacy. 😑

              In my opinion, legacy is more significant than history. It's okay to disagree though.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by A Sabbath Historian View Post

                .... No need to "help" me BTE, I'm doing fine thank you. As always, you're working too hard trying to convince me that the Martin era is more significant than it really is. Not an insult either, just an observation.

                Like I stated before, while the Martin era is certainly part of the band's history, it contributed nothing to the band's legacy. 😑

                In my opinion, legacy is more significant than history. It's okay to disagree though.

                LOL ... ok anytime you need me I’m here for you , you got this , I have faith in you ...

                Comment


                • Originally posted by BACK TO EDEN View Post

                  What you need to understand is this sound that you perceive in your brain is because your brain doesn’t perceive the sound correctly. It’s a classic case of two channel fatigue , It’s very common in the audiophile world, And by most of your comments in most of these threads you show a true lack of understanding for quality music if it’s not by the people you want to hear. As you said a reunion is not Just about the music it’s also about the people. It’s always about the music, and the Martin era delivers as good or better than anything that came before it or after it, you’re suffering from what’s called listening fatigue. It’s not Ozzy if it’s not DIO your brain doesn’t perceive the sound correctly. It would be like someone saying the only era of deep purple that matters is the mark 2 era. It’s not an insult it’s just the facts , take it as a learning experience, But I digress -)

                  God bless
                  Doc what would Sabbath be without Ancient Warrior, The Shining, The Gates Of Hell/Headless Cross, Nightwing, Anno Mundi, Heaven In Black, Jerusalem, Cross Of Thorns, Psychophobia, What's The Use?, Can't Get Close Enough, Forbidden, Rusty Angels, Kiss Of Death, Loser Gets It All?

                  I'll answer the question for you Doc, as you have enough work already, helping people in need out, and you already know anyways, because you have a PhD in Sabbathology and MD in Black Sabbath ailments, treatments and fixes,

                  The answer is Sabbath would a whole lot less interesting and unique as it is.


                  Doc, thanks for chiming in with you awe amazing Sabbath knowledge brother, respect to you always!
                  "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
                  "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
                  ________Sabbath Forever, Forever Sabbath!______OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

                  Comment


                  • The Martin era is my least favorite era but i still think all the Martin era albums are better than 13. (im not saying that 13 is a bad album).

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by A Sabbath Historian View Post

                      I can understand your point.

                      But it's not just about the voice SMS. it's about the overall chemistry of the band as a whole. The Martin years by-and-large sorely lacked that, in spite of a few "shining" moments.

                      I agree that Martin had a good voice, but there was nothing truly unique about it. It's simply Dokken meets Dio, for better or worse. 😑
                      I agree with that in some way, like the 1970s line up early on was a tight band, Martin Era did get to that level but only for a short time, that being the Headless Cross to Tyr (1988 to 1990)

                      you could tell they liked working with each other from how Headless Cross sounds and how quick the songs came together. more info in this https://youtu.be/U8XARMy5xE4

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Dehumanizer3000 View Post

                        I agree with that in some way, like the 1970s line up early on was a tight band, Martin Era did get to that level but only for a short time, that being the Headless Cross to Tyr (1988 to 1990)

                        you could tell they liked working with each other from how Headless Cross sounds and how quick the songs came together. more info in this https://youtu.be/U8XARMy5xE4

                        Thanks for responding D3000. Slightly off-topic: I think production-wise, Headless Cross was very thin-sounding to my ears. Sonically, it could've been a lot better.

                        A couple of decent tracks for me, but yes, you're right to say that if any chemistry did exist, Headless Cross would be the ideal example of that.

                        Respect.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Kennyz View Post
                          The Martin era is my least favorite era but i still think all the Martin era albums are better than 13. (im not saying that 13 is a bad album).
                          Interesting viewpoint Kenny. Personally, I give 13 three out of five stars, which to me is even (quality-wise) with Born Again.

                          Solid, but not great.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Dehumanizer3000 View Post

                            I agree with that in some way, like the 1970s line up early on was a tight band, Martin Era did get to that level but only for a short time, that being the Headless Cross to Tyr (1988 to 1990)

                            you could tell they liked working with each other from how Headless Cross sounds and how quick the songs came together. more info in this https://youtu.be/U8XARMy5xE4
                            I think Black Sabbath as a whole is all 5 eras, I also know the Martin era was tight you can hear it in albums like Headless, Tyr, Cross Purposes , Forbidden especially, and I’ll mention Eternal Idol a spectacular musical piece of art, but I think of that as a Gillen album, that’s why I mention it last, not because it’s a lesser of a Sabbath album.but some of Sabbaths best songs are on that album, Sabbath’s musical progression started with 7th Star, in my opinion and when the Martin era came along I find it where some of Tony’s best guitar playing were on those albums, the solos are extraordinary, some of Tony’s best guitar work are on the Dio and Martin albums, and the Martin albums sound like Sabbath to me. Take the Headless Cross Song, can’t get more Sabbath than that and Nightwing one of my favorites, and the masterpiece of a song called Anno Mundi, Illusion of Power, Forbidden, Kiss of Death, Cross of Thorns, Psychophobia , Ancient Warrior, The Shining.


                            Sabbath Historian thinks too highly of himself, he’s no historian at all if he were he’d acknowledge all eras and their importance in what made Sabbath special and unique, that’s what true historians do, there is only one true Sabbath Historian on this forum, well two, that’s Joe Seigler and Doctor John, everyone has their preference, mine is the Ozzy era, it’s the Sabbath I grew up with and loved, but I love all the eras and appreciate all the eras, a band is just not about the members, but the music it creates and the legacy it leaves behind for future fans who get into the band to read about it, listen to it and appreciate the fact that Tony IommI kept it going, that’s the specialness of Black Sabbath it’s diverse history and Tony’s strong desire to keep something he was proud of continue to move forward.

                            History is not only about saying it’s only Sabbath if you have three original members in the band or you have to have two original members in the band in order for it to be true Sabbath, that is disrespectful to Tony and the fans who love all of Sabbath’s eras as one band with different unique sounds to that particular era.

                            A true historian acknowledges and accepts that, otherwise your biased and the name historian just doesn’t stick, it falls off cause it’s not real, it’s phony.
                            Last edited by OzzyIsDio; 02-27-2021, 07:29 AM. Reason: Typo
                            "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
                            "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
                            ________Sabbath Forever, Forever Sabbath!______OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by OzzyIsDio View Post

                              I think Black Sabbath as a whole is all 5 eras, I also know the Martin era was tight you can hear it in albums like Headless, Tyr, Cross Purposes , Forbidden especially, and I’ll mention Eternal Idol a spectacular musical piece of art, but I think of that as a Gillen album, that’s why I mention it last, not because it’s a lesser of a Sabbath album.but some of Sabbaths best songs are on that album, Sabbath’s musical progression started with 7th Star, in my opinion and when the Martin era came along I find it where some of Tony’s best guitar playing were on those albums, the solos are extraordinary, some of Tony’s best guitar work are on the Dio and Martin albums, and the Martin albums sound like Sabbath to me. Take the Headless Cross Song, can’t get more Sabbath than that and Nightwing one of my favorites, and the masterpiece of a song called Anno Mundi, Illusion of Power, Forbidden, Kiss of Death, Cross of Thorns, Psychophobia , Ancient Warrior, The Shining.


                              Sabbath Historian thinks too highly of himself, he’s no historian at all if he were he’d acknowledge all eras and their importance in what made Sabbath special and unique, that’s what true historians do, there is only one true Sabbath Historian on this forum, well two, that’s Joe Seigler and Doctor John, everyone has their preference, mine is the Ozzy era, it’s the Sabbath I grew up with and loved, but I love all the eras and appreciate all the eras, a band is just not about the members, but the music it creates and the legacy it leaves behind for future fans who get into the band to read about it, listen to it and appreciate the fact that Tony IommI kept it going, that’s the specialness of Black Sabbath it’s diverse history and Tony’s strong desire to keep something he was proud of continue to move forward.

                              History is not only about saying it’s only Sabbath if you have three original members in the band or you have to have two original members in the band in order for it to be true Sabbath, that is disrespectful to Tony and the fans who love all of Sabbath’s eras as one band with different unique sounds to that particular era.

                              A true historian acknowledges and accepts that, otherwise your biased and the name historian just doesn’t stick, it falls off cause it’s not real, it’s phones.
                              well said man! I agree. I have always said each album/era has something to offer, as a fan I love it all and consider it lucky that we got consistent albums, It just shows how strong of a writer Iommi is.

                              Forbidden for example is weak compared to other sabbath albums, but it does have gems and solid riffs from Iommi, its gonna be awesome to hear the remix of it ever comes out.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Dehumanizer3000 View Post

                                well said man! I agree. I have always said each album/era has something to offer, as a fan I love it all and consider it lucky that we got consistent albums, It just shows how strong of a writer Iommi is.

                                Forbidden for example is weak compared to other sabbath albums, but it does have gems and solid riffs from Iommi, its gonna be awesome to hear the remix of it ever comes out.
                                Thank you Dehumanizer3000!
                                "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
                                "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
                                ________Sabbath Forever, Forever Sabbath!______OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

                                Comment

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