Forbidden, was it THAT bad???

[Wheels Of Confusion]

With all this talk of it being reminiscent of the 70s output I'm going to have to dig this album out once again and give it yet another go.

It has failed to do much for me since it came out in 95.

I'd describe it as very tired sounding, found it a real letdown after Cross Purposes, which I think was a convincing Black Sabbath album not seen since Born Again (and Dehumanizer)

[SweetSymptom]

Again, its not the production. Its the reliance on synths, the overtly melodic, singsongy songwriting. The songwritings just bad.

Also Ice T was not the worst thing on the album, in fact Illusion of Power was the sole highlight of the album

I find your comment interesting in light of the fact that Iommi was reportedly looking to go back to his 70s style of riff writing on 'Forbidden' and I feel that to some extent he did, albeit his songwriting was still reminiscent of the Martin era. I wonder if the songs would have taken a deeper turn back to that era had Geezer and Bill stayed on board. With that said, I also find some tracks here (mainly 'Illusion' and 'Loser Gets It All') to have a sound reminiscent of that on MoR.

And for what its worth, my feelings on black metal are for another thread.

[OzzyIsDio]

No, I meant what I said. Forbidden is D-Tier music at best. Bland and forgettable. The penny ramen of music.

Also black metal is good.

We're all entitled to our opinions Buffalo Bill, and I respect yours, It took me awhile to get into the Martin/Sabbath material.

Black Metal I could never get into.

[Buffalo Bill Scruggs]

Ill listen to Illusion of Power but thats it. Only because musically it reminds me of Master of Reality or Paranoid.

[DiosSword]

No, I meant what I said. Forbidden is D-Tier music at best. Bland and forgettable. The penny ramen of music.

So I take it Forbidden is not on your "must-spin" list?

[Buffalo Bill Scruggs]

I knew you had the wrong band and album ,, because Forbidden is absolutely FANTASTIC from start to finish ,,, and you seem like you have a head on your shoulders outside of "the black metal" thought process .... a "reliance on synths" does not exist on this brilliant album , so I believe you just mixed up your bands .... God Bless

No, I meant what I said. Forbidden is D-Tier music at best. Bland and forgettable. The penny ramen of music.

Also black metal is good.

[DiosSword]

I knew you had the wrong band and album ,, because Forbidden is absolutely FANTASTIC from start to finish ,,, and you seem like you have a head on your shoulders outside of "the black metal" thought process .... a "reliance on synths" does not exist on this brilliant album , so I believe you just mixed up your bands .... God Bless

There isn't much synthesiser at all on Forbidden. As I've said I think they were trying to tap too much into the '90s sound, which didn't rely at all on synths.

I don't like rap and to me I think of Ice-T as an actor on "Law And Order: Special Victims Unit."

[BACK TO EDEN]

Again, its not the production. Its the reliance on synths, the overtly melodic, singsongy songwriting. The songwritings just bad.

Also Ice T was not the worst thing on the album, in fact Illusion of Power was the sole highlight of the album

I knew you had the wrong band and album ,, because Forbidden is absolutely FANTASTIC from start to finish ,,, and you seem like you have a head on your shoulders outside of "the black metal" thought process .... a "reliance on synths" does not exist on this brilliant album , so I believe you just mixed up your bands .... God Bless

[Buffalo Bill Scruggs]

Well, the bone-dry production certainly doesn't do it any favours in terms of being "wimpy and limpwristed."

It certainly doesn't have their best songwriting but a few of the songs I find to be really good - production aside.

Again, I think they were trying too hard to be "too '90s" instead of being themselves.

Having Ice-T as a "guest rapper" (trying to do an Aerosmith) was very misguided.

I read where Brian May told Tony Iommi it sounded like Soundgarden and Iommi flipped out.

Again, its not the production. Its the reliance on synths, the overtly melodic, singsongy songwriting. The songwritings just bad.

Also Ice T was not the worst thing on the album, in fact Illusion of Power was the sole highlight of the album

[OzzyIsDio]

Well, the bone-dry production certainly doesn't do it any favours in terms of being "wimpy and limpwristed."

It certainly doesn't have their best songwriting but a few of the songs I find to be really good - production aside.

Again, I think they were trying too hard to be "too '90s" instead of being themselves.

Having Ice-T as a "guest rapper" (trying to do an Aerosmith) was very misguided.

I read where Brian May told Tony Iommi it sounded like Soundgarden and Iommi flipped out.

Love Forbidden, to me it's Martin/Sabbath's best, Illusion of Power certainly one of the heaviest and best songs on the album.

In the beginning I didn't much care for Ice-T being on the album, perhaps it was my prejudice towards Rap music, which I still loathe, but like Ice-T as a participant on the song Illusion of Power.

[DiosSword]

Well, the bone-dry production certainly doesn't do it any favours in terms of being "wimpy and limpwristed."

It certainly doesn't have their best songwriting but a few of the songs I find to be really good - production aside.

Again, I think they were trying too hard to be "too '90s" instead of being themselves.

Having Ice-T as a "guest rapper" (trying to do an Aerosmith) was very misguided.

I read where Brian May told Tony Iommi it sounded like Soundgarden and Iommi flipped out.

[Buffalo Bill Scruggs]

What is "bad" about it then?

I think the songwriting is bad and I find most of the album wimpy and limpwristed

[William_the_Bloody]

^^You're not that far from me. I'm in Port Huron.

Hey, yeah? Always meant to get up that way and check it out. Looks like some nice photo ops (<--fancies himself a photographer)

[DiosSword]

^^You're not that far from me. I'm in Port Huron.

[William_the_Bloody]

I think it's bottom 3 with 7th Star and Born Again.

Between these 3, "Born Again" has the best single track (Zero the Hero) and the most original members if that counts for anything, makes it more "legit"

But for my money, "Forbidden" has the best Singer with most longevity compared to the other two...being a part of a solid "Era" rather than a flash in the pan, band-aid solution adds legitimacy.

Further, "Forbidden" lacks a strong, dominating track however has maybe the highest count of "hey, not bad..." versus filler or off-brand material. If you assigned point value for this it would probably end up sniping the "strong track" impact of ZtH thus taking Born Again down further.

Forbidden, then, is the best of the worst of a band whose ass resides at most other bands face level, if you get my meaning.