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Ranking the Martin Era Albums!

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  • #31
    Re: Ranking the Martin Era Albums!

    Now that I just received Eternal Idol yesterday in the mail from an ebay auction, I still need Cross Purposes before making a full judgement. CP should be coming this week as I won that over the weekend.

    So far, without having listed to CP I would rank the albums:

    1-Headless Cross
    2-TYR
    3-Eternal Idol
    4-Forbidden

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    • #32
      Re: Ranking the Martin Era Albums!

      Originally Posted By: mikewho 1. Cross Purposes - Musically, I think CP is very strong… definitely feel the presence of Geezer.

      2. Eternal Idol - A troubled recording, but with some great songs nonetheless.

      3. TYR - Very strong… the Norse / Viking themes are a refreshing change from all the Devil songs. Strong material, overall.

      4. Forbidden - Kind of odd production, but once you get used to it, it sorta works… rather odd - very deep- bass sound. Kinda like it. When “Shaking Off the Chains” gets going, it really rocks.

      5. Headless Cross… I must be one of the few people who isn’t impressed by this one. I still don’t know why it’s regarded as such a classic by some. Slick 80’s “Dokken-esqe” production. The lyrics are pretty cheesy. "Devil" this "devil" that ooooh… the Devil will get you and he’s evil… blah blah blah. It had a charm on the early stuff, but sounds silly from middle-aged men. And what is a “Headless Cross” anyway… a stick?

      Still it’s got it’s moments…. I like the Brian May solo in When Death Calls and the Riff to HC is pretty cool. All in all, it’s my least favorite though.
      Yes, I agree that the lyrics are pretty cheesy at times, and the production is too slick with a little too much synth on it. That being said, Cozy Powell's drums are thunderous, and to my ears they bring a heaviness back that was missing from Sabbath albums since "The Mob Rules". Also, Tony has some great riffs (e.g. the title track, second half of "When Death Calls") and melodies (e.g. "Nightwing") on this album, and his soloing IMO is much better on this album than "The Eternal Idol". I am someone who can listen to the songs without paying that much attention to the lyrics if the music is great (In general, Tony Martin's lyrics don't do that much for me personally; although, I think maybe some of his best lyrics are actually on "Forbidden"), and I think it consistently is on this album.

      BTW, Headless Cross is actually the name of a town in England by the way that lost over half of it's population to an outbreak of bubonic plague in the 17th century, which is where Tony Martin got the idea for the title and lyrics.

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      • #33
        Re: Ranking the Martin Era Albums!

        For me:

        1- Cross Purposes
        2- Forbidden
        3- Headless Cross
        4- Eternal Idol
        5- TYR

        All supberb albums. God I miss Tony. Im glad he does a project now and then. Guintini project II is one of my faves.
        When will you show me a sign
        When will you throw me a line

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        • #34
          Re: Ranking the Martin Era Albums!

          Originally Posted By: Psychdoc BTW, Headless Cross is actually the name of a town in England by the way that lost over half of it's population to an outbreak of bubonic plague in the 17th century, which is where Tony Martin got the idea for the title and lyrics.
          I heard he actually lives in that town these days.

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          • #35
            Re: Ranking the Martin Era Albums!

            1. The Eternal Idol
            2. Cross Purposes
            3. TYR
            4. Headless Cross
            5. Forbidden

            I alway lump in "7th Star" with this era, even though Martin is not the singer. It is the best of all of these CD's IMO, but since we are only talking Martin era, EI is my favorite.
            "I can honestly say it’s truly been an honor to play at his side for all these years, his music will live on forever." ~ Tony Iommi (Speaking of Ronnie James Dio)

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            • #36
              Re: Ranking the Martin Era Albums!

              Well here is my opinion.

              #1:Cross Purposes:
              It has a lot of great tracks on it! It is pretty heavy (Martins heaviest Sabbath album) I like think the cover is one of Sabbaths best in later years. However I really have this album in a tie with the below.
              #2:TYR:
              It "Feels Good To Me". I doesnt have a bad track on it in my opinion, Feels Good To Me, doesn't fit in there, but it is an okay Sabbath ballad.
              The 3 piece is awesome. It has the last Sabbath keyboard instrumental we have. And I'm quite fond of how the whole album fits together up until Feels Good To Me comes on.
              The album cover is nothing special, but some of the art is fine.
              Anno Mundi is an absolute standout track, I'd compare it to War Pigs any day, just go listen to it, it's an anti-war song to me at least! And why is singing about norse mythology corny ? What isn't corny then? Black Sabbath the song with evil being aroun the bend is just as corny. huh.gif
              #3:Eternal Idol:First off, I like the cover, nice statue and I like that Sabbath logo quite a lot. I like most of the songs on it. It has some real standout tracks. I think Martin did an oustanding job on songs that were not his! This album to me is also nearly at a tie with the other two.
              #4:Headless Cross:
              For me it has some amazing tracks and some I don't listen to all too often. Some standouts for me is the Title track, When Death Calls is one of my favorite tracks all time, i.e. (live Headless in Russia)
              I also quite like Black Moon, Nightwing & Devil & Daughter.

              #5: Forbidden
              The only clear choice for me in this whole thing is that it would come last. It's cover is not a favorite of mine, the Lemon Ice Tea song is crap to me, the production doesn't sound good.
              The highlights for me here are: Can't Get Close Enough, Kiss Of Death, Loser Gets It All (Japanese bonus, it should have been on the damn album, a weird choice for me to leave it out! ) Rusty Angels is also okay...

              A fact at the end though.
              I know I've listened to TYR by far the most out of all of these albums so it really is way up there for me! In fact maybe it and CP should trade places, but I'll let them stay in a tie...

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Ranking the Martin Era Albums!

                Originally Posted By: Petoria000
                Originally Posted By: Psychdoc BTW, Headless Cross is actually the name of a town in England by the way that lost over half of it's population to an outbreak of bubonic plague in the 17th century, which is where Tony Martin got the idea for the title and lyrics.
                I heard he actually lives in that town these days.
                He used to, until recently, but not anymore.

                Anyways, my ranking would be:
                1. TYR
                2. Cross Purposes
                3-4. Headless Cross and Eternal Idol
                5. Forbidden
                "There's only one Black Sabbath... I like to call him Tony Iommi" - racer

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Ranking the Martin Era Albums!

                  Originally Posted By: Petoria000
                  Originally Posted By: Psychdoc BTW, Headless Cross is actually the name of a town in England by the way that lost over half of it's population to an outbreak of bubonic plague in the 17th century, which is where Tony Martin got the idea for the title and lyrics.
                  I heard he actually lives in that town these days.
                  He used to, until recently, but not anymore.

                  Anyways, my ranking would be:
                  1. TYR
                  2. Cross Purposes
                  3-4. Headless Cross and Eternal Idol
                  5. Forbidden
                  "There's only one Black Sabbath... I like to call him Tony Iommi" - racer

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Ranking the Martin Era Albums!

                    Wow, Wickedworld, we must be singing from the same hymn sheet!!

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Ranking the Martin Era Albums!

                      Top to bottom:

                      Headless Cross
                      Eternal Idol
                      Tyr
                      Forbidden
                      Cross Purposes

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                      • #41
                        1. forbidden: they went in the studio, recorded the album, then left. no big production or mixing. (just like b.s -vol4) i like the heavyness and the rawness of the album and tony martin is singing more down to earth and more like everyday guys. 'shakin of the chains' is one hell of a good song and in a way is tony martin's sabbath bloody sabbath. 'i wont cry for you' and 'kiss of death' tony sings great and the songs draw u to them.
                        2. cross purposes: kinda the same as forbidden with the not over produced sound. and of course features geezer butler. 'cross of thorns' and 'dying for love' tony sings great and down to earth. 'virtual death' is kinda martin's black sabbath.
                        3. headless cross: the most famous album of this period as the production is kinda dated. heavy keyboards and martin's over dubbs and voice layers. but still a very good album and deserves more attention.
                        4. tyr: the only concept album in sabbath history. like headless cross the production is dated but still a strong album and you can easily listen to eat beginning to end.
                        5. eternal idol: listed it last cuz in a way its not martin's album. lyrics writin b4 we came in and he basically just sang like ray gillen. in the same key and everything else. but its production is more modern/ageless than headless cross or tyr.
                        Last edited by EDTRADER; 12-30-2008, 01:40 PM.
                        Pain and Poison Roses

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                        • #42
                          I'd go with:

                          1) Eternal Idol - This was the first Tony Martin- Sabbath album I heard and is my favourite that he sang on. Although I've only heard a rough version of the Gillen demo's which are better - Tony's performance is still superb and the songwriting contributions of Bob Daisly make a massive impact plus there is zero filler for me. Fave Tracks - All of them!

                          2) Tyr - Great album with great songs, especially Sabbath Stones, Law Maker and Odins Court/Valhalla. Only complaint being that this one is too short.

                          3) Cross Purposes - More great song writing and an intersting mix of styles. Great drumming too but some of it just doesn't click with me so it's gotta comne 3rd. Fave Tracks - Virtual Death, Cardinal Sin, Hand That Rocks The Cradle and Evil Eye

                          4) Forbidden - A patchy album, with the one of the best tracks being reserved for Japan only. Half of this album is great - Kiss of Death, Can't Get Close Enough, Get A Grip, Illusion of Power but there is clearly some filler. Also the production just doesn't do the band - except Iommi or the songs justice - Cozy's drums especially seem off somewhat in terms of sound (not playing). Gets mor flak than it deserves though.

                          5) Headless Cross - After Eternal Idol this release is pretty meh. There are some very good songs - Headless Cross, When Death Calls and Devil & Daughter but the filler here for me is bad - worse than that of Forbiddon which as stated gets more flak than it deserves. I've always thought this album to be overrated personally - the vibe of the album lacks the power and/or the sinister tones from the likes of the Dio/Gillan/Ozzy era's and is my least fave album inspite of the songs mentioned above - especially when death calls.
                          "But that is not the question. Why are we here, that is the question. And we are blessed in this, that we happen to know the answer. Yes, in this immense confusion one thing alone is clear. We are waiting for Godot to come."
                          - Samuel Beckett, Waiting for Godot

                          “Music does not influence research work, but both are nourished by the same sort of longing, and they complement each other in the release they offer.”
                          —Albert Einstein --- To Paul Plaut, October 23, 1928. AEA 28–065

                          I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.
                          Sir Winston Churchill

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                          • #43
                            Cross Purposes
                            Tyr
                            Headless Cross
                            Iternal Idol
                            Forbidden

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                            • #44
                              I remember writing some reviews for a metal site, covering 4 of 5 TM-era Sabbath albums among others (all except Headless Cross). Funny how my judgement changed since then... not much. I gave Tyr a 10/10 (I will stand by that opinion to this day), HC a 8/10 (ditto), and the rest 7/10. Today I would rank Forbidden as a 6/10 (back in 2006 I gave it an extra point for being the final Sabbath album of all time, and this is kinda dated by now, thanks heck!) and HC a 7/10. Eternal Idol is hard for me, as there's some darn good stuff there! Scarlet Pimpernel, Ancient Warrior and the title track in particular.

                              Of all the 18 (20?) Sabbath studio albums only Heaven and Hell can come close to Tyr which I still rank as my all time favourite. H&H is a close second and generally the best (as opposed to my personal favourite Sabbath record). Let's see if the new album can scratch that!

                              Of the other Sabbath albums, I gave Fused and Dehumanizer 8/10 each (though I like Cross Purposes more overall, the standout tracks on Dehumanizer are slightly more memorable), Heaven and Hell a 10/10 (should have been 666/10!) and Seventh Star a 8/10 back in the day. Still pretty much correct for me, except for the Fused ranking which would now be higher for me, probably a 9/10, and the one point down from perfect is only due to the non-variety of the songs' tempo.
                              "There's only one Black Sabbath... I like to call him Tony Iommi" - racer

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                              • #45
                                1. Headless Cross
                                2. Cross Purposes
                                3. Forbidden
                                4. Eternal Idol
                                5. Tyr

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