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Led Zeppelin II - 40th Anniversary

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Echoes View Post
    Alas, the only Led Zeppelin I own is that 4 disc set that came out in 1990. This was bought early when I was in the mindset of buying sets/compilations, rather than investing in actual albums.
    I'm pretty sure they have subsequently released a mini box set that contains all the tracks not contained on the four disc compilation. Then all you have to do is set up playlists on your iPod, or burn CDs replicating the original albums' track lists.

    I didn't buy the 4 disc set myself, but my wife did (before we met). I'll admit that I sometimes throw it in the car when I'm going through a "Zeppelin phase" (like now, because of these threads frankly) but I agree that the scatter shot track listing is disorienting. Their first 5 albums absolutely have to be listened to as separate entities. PG, Presence and ITTOD you can get away with mixing up the "greatest hits" I suppose, but it's still a little difficult.

    Ultimately Zeppelin's like lemon meringue pie. When it's good, it's very good. When it's subpar, it's still pretty good. You can't really go wrong.
    "But I don't want to go among mad people."
    "Oh, you can't help that, we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
    "How do you know I'm mad?"
    "You must be or you wouldn't have come here."

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Echoes View Post
      But I will say that no matter how many times I listen to it, I LOVE Tangerine! Everything about the song is perfect, particularly the feeling of the solo (and once again RLP, thanks to you, I have a new appreciation of Jimmy's tone).
      I totally agree! Tangerine is such an underrated gem of a song!

      Comment


      • #33
        Oh, Echoes, it's terrific to hear that I (with my mile-long posts and odes to Zeppelin ) have managed to reignite your curiosity and interest in their music, and make you wanna properly give Led Zeppelin a revisit. I'm glad to know.
        Believe me RLP, I'm one of those people who appreciates the rambling posts from time to time. The longer the comments, the more descriptive the reviews get, and the better informed I feel. If nothing else, you're at least passionate about your music.

        It's weird, but ever since I first heard Zep I've had a love/hate thing with them. Sith mentioned in the other thread that they can be at times brilliant and other times self-indulgent. And while that may be true, I think what mainly drove me away from them was the fact I kept hearing the same few songs on our local classic rock station. It got to a point where I couldn't listen to them for a long time. Fast forward to this hour, and it's a lot easier for me to get back into their music again without the "beat-you-over-the-head-with-the-blunt-end-of-the-stick" playlists on FM radio. Although it may take a little while for me to warm up to "Whole Lotta Love" again...don't shoot!!!

        But you know, no matter how I felt about Led Zeppelin these past years, I've always maintained that they were still important to me. I've brought this story up countless times, but let me recap again: 6 years ago, back when I was still in college (or CEGEP, as we say here in Quebec), a friend of mine recommended a few Zeppelin songs to try out. Now this was a time when I had no clue what music I liked...basically directionless. But upon hearing "Stairway to Heaven" for the first spin sort of blew my mind! And after that I searched high and low for all the classic rock I could get my hands on. In a nutshell, it was hearing "Stairway" that got me to where I am today; my tastes in music, my OCD with collecting physical albums (whether they be CD or LP) and most importantly why I am on this forum now.

        I gotta say, mate, that 4-disc box set was a strange, pretty misconceived, mostly very disappointing release. The sound production, admittedly, was clearly a qualitative step up from the previous, older 'remastered' album cd releases by Zeppelin, but heck, to have a totally randomised song selection, and that too, covering only 2/3 of their career catalogue still seems to me to be a rather bizarre, half-hearted attempt to update their collection for a contemporary release, back in 1990. I say all this, because despite seriously hesitating before buying this 4-disc set, I did end up buying it and listening to them repeatedly. I just couldn't see the worth of it at all and, after a while, never gave those discs further listens. Maybe only for a superior-sound versions of great tunes like Hey Hey What Can I Do or Travelling Riverside Blues.

        And, you're spot-on, Echoes, about wanting to listen to albums like II and III, in whole, in actual song sequence. That's the way I always liked it, myself.
        Yeah. It's one of those things where when I first got into music, my logic for picking up CDs was based more on "what compilation can I find that will have the most songs I like?" rather than discovering the full record as originally released. Sacrilegiously, I came perilously close to picking up that 2 CD "Best of Pink Floyd" instead of buying Dark Side, The Wall, and Wish You Were Here! Thankfully, I saw the light and ended up buying the individual releases instead. And to this day, I prefer buying studio albums instead; better to invest in those and discover some hidden gems rather than stick to what ya know.

        While I figured it gave me a large number of songs (and I got it for a steal at the time), in retrospect you're right. It is too randomized a track list to fully appreciate. I took the tracks from III on the box and rearranged them to the rough order of the original album, and they low a lot better combined. It's kind of like hearing the Ozzy era on the Black Box vs. the Symptom of the Universe set. Better flow on the albums, and a lot of songs I never would have discovered otherwise.

        For any fan, genuinely serious about listening to the Led Zeppelin discography...on well,...compact discs....The Complete Studio Collection of the band's career is the definitive release to shell out the precious dollars on. That's honestly the way to go as far as savouring Led Zeppelin, goes. But Echoes, I suspect that you're not yet considering hearing ALL of their records in full, just yet, so maybe you'd be understandably leery of spending too much on a full box-set collection. Perhaps, you will consider buying the CSR, in the future. I can guarantee it will be every dime of yours spent worthily
        I would love to hear all their records in full. And while the CSR does look like a worthy investment, I'm "leery" about purchasing it more for financial reasons. Besides essentially buying another box set with the same songs I already own, think have slowed down with me thanks to the so called "budget cuts". Hell, had it not been for that I would have LEAPED at the chance to own the Beatles Mono set. Maybe one of these days....

        There's also that "Complete 70s Mini LP Replica" set that came out around the time "Mothership" was released. Not sure how that holds up compared to the CSR.

        I'm pretty sure they have subsequently released a mini box set that contains all the tracks not contained on the four disc compilation. Then all you have to do is set up playlists on your iPod, or burn CDs replicating the original albums' track lists.
        I don't know man. That second box set is becoming harder to find in stores where I live. Besides the albums themselves they only carry the 4 disc set or the "complete 70s mini LP replicas". Besides, with my strange music ethic, even if I ended up burning the actual albums themselves I'd still want to have a real copy in the end.

        And forget the iPod! I may be part of that generation, but let me stick to using the ol' CD player. There's nothing like sitting on a bus at rush hour, pulling out a new disc to listen to and people around me glancing at the side to see what the heck is on the cover (it's happened quite a bit with the first King Crimson album ).

        Bloody hell! That was one long post!

        Comment


        • #34
          Echoes, I honestly enjoyed reading your long response very much. You come across as particularly pretty passionate about your music too..and the way you want to buy and listen to them. I have more to say in response to your post, later.

          To TRM: Yes, Jimmy Page later compiled and released the remainder of the 20+ songs, on a sequel; a second box-set, titled 'Vol. 2'. I obviously never bought that. Though it had a really cool cover. And I reckon even Echoes would be better off not needlessly spending on that follow-up 2-CD release, and buying the CSR instead, when he's better able to afford spending for the hefty price tag that 'priceless' box-set carries.
          "Actors really are the scum of the earth. Their behavior makes arrogant, overpaid rock stars appear positively noble' - Buzz Osborne

          Comment


          • #35
            QUOTE from RLP4ever

            Wicked, I'm not completely certain about the I'm Confused/Dazed & Confused connection, but the White Summer/Black Mountain Side is really the same tune reworked many times, in live performances and the studio sessions. It also appears on Disc 1 of the 4-disc box-set of '90 that I was talking about with Echoes, above.[/QUOTE]



            Found it on YOUTUBE (of course..!). IM CONFUSED - YARDBIRDS which is actually Dazed and Confused with some different lyrics, complete with violin bow...

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53BLzK4wWys
            "Music is so sacred to me that I canít hear wishy-washy nonsense just played for the sake of selling records."
            R. Blackmore

            Comment


            • #36
              A few more comments until RLP chimes in with his "next novel" (which I look forward to reading of course)

              In the spirit of this thread, I decided to pull out disc 4 of the box set and give it a proper listen once again. A few observations on those 70+ minutes:

              1) Considering that this disc covered random tracks from Houses of the Holy, Physical Graffiti, Presence and In Through the Out Door, the transitions between these tracks are quite jarring. It's easy to tell them apart mainly by the production and Plant's voice.

              2) In the Evening, The Ocean, Fool in the Rain and All My Love were the songs I remembered most. And they're still strong to me.

              3) I had never given a proper chance to In the Light, Nobody's Fault But Mine or Moby Dick/Bonzo's Montreux. It felt like I was discovering these songs with fresh ears. Amazing how with time some songs just finally jump out at you.

              4) Now that I listened to these with proper headphones (unlike those tiny ear buds), I was able to hear just how layered the production really is. Page seemed like he always focused on the little details in the song. And that's the sort of thing I love to find when I listen.

              5) Headphones part II: I was also able to focus more on John Paul Jones' playing. He really is fun to listen to. At times keeping a solid groove, with the few fills here and there to keep it interesting. Once my bass playing skills get better, probably in a few years , I'm gonna have to tackle his material.

              6) Even though the vocals fit the mood of the later songs, it's clear that Plant lost a lot of the range he possessed in his prime. I noticed that because of the aforementioned "randomized" track list on the CD. Seems like it was around Presence when I noticed the drop-off. Although for all I know this could have been the result of his car accident. I could be wrong though.

              Overall, it was quite a journey. Wow. If that was my reaction to the later stuff, I can't wait to hear their peak era.

              Comment


              • #37
                Tangent if a bit before and after on the thread. Watched the "The Song Remains the Same" last night (again) having been sick all week. Page at his total best and always appreciate seeing Bonzo play, still miles ahead of many today. All power.

                Memories. They defined "supergroup" and were 1/5 of the constant listen bands for a period of my life. Page is great other than (times I've seen him) being a bit "up/down" as far as consistent. Match packs stuffed in 8 track tapes.

                But memories bring smiles, for a variety of reasons. Especially music in a car at the time, in various physical conditions.

                In the same period the rest were black/blue/pink/purple.

                Can remember a full row of compiled tapes in the car titled Black/Blue/Pink/Purple 1, 2, 3, etc (Black Sabbath, Blue ÷yster Cult, Pink Floyd, Deep Purple). Really little else worthwhile for me at the time and that I wanted to hear again and again and again.....

                Of the 5, the only 2 that are still a regular and constant listen today are Black Sabbath and Blue ÷yster Cult.

                I appreciate all the aspects and skills of Led Zep of course. But even then each album was 1/2 love 1/2 bore, never a "like every song" as some of the other bands mentioned delivered, I, II, III, IV, and Houses of the Holy being best for me (IV sold by far the most). The heavier cruncy or fast stuff was great, the blues type slower songs a bore and skipped. Other than to get females, most guys in school were sick to death of "Stairway" overkill, LOL

                I remember shopping for my 1st stereo and having some low volume conservative older moron tell me what they had (Sears) was more than enough with something like 6 watts in their "all in 1 system" as he cranked the piece of crap up. Ended up with a Pionier receiver and speakers (1973) from the 1st actual stereo store to open in my area that cost more than everything else in my apartment combined (including my clothes).

                What ever happened to the reunion concert, I'd have thought it would be recorded and released ??

                Comment


                • #38
                  I have fond memories of Led Zeppelin II, because it was one of my first cds I bought (aside from Queen).
                  It is a solid album with great songs like Heartbreaker, Living Loving Maiden, Whole Lotta Love, Moby Dick, Ramble on and Bring it On.
                  The only thing which bothers me with Led Zeppelin is that they got from the media (and some fans too) a divine status and are immortalised which sometimes lead to a non-critical stance towards their back catalogue and their abilities as musicians.
                  However, aside from Led Zeppelin II and some songs from their other albums I'm not really familiar with their back catalogue (although I have all cds of them) and will finally check them out thanks to this thread.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    heres a picture of them holding the master reels.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      The first Zep album I bought. I got it way back in 82 on cassette. I love every minute of this baby, even the one filler song LLM.

                      It's amazing to think that this was recorded hectically while on the road during Zeps criss crossing of the US back in 69. There's about a minute of outtakes that circulate. About 50 minutes more were supposed to follow, but a breach of trust put those back in the closet, where they will likely remain for a long time. Some the recording sessions were even filmed. Those videos aren't likely to see the light of day either.

                      A shameless plug for a friends site, which chronicles Led Zeppelin's live career.

                      http://www.ledzeppelin-database.com

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Man...after playing the 4th disc of the set I figured it seemed appropriate to revisit the LZ II tracks again. Just hearing "Heartbreaker" and "Whole Lotta Love" after several years just smacks me in the head! How could I put this aside for so long? Such killer riffs! And it seems Plant's panting and moaning during the WLL wasn't quite as grating as I thought they were.

                        RLP--I'm still curious what your reply was to my post way back. Maybe this comment will get you out of hiding!

                        And I reckon even Echoes would be better off not needlessly spending on that follow-up 2-CD release, and buying the CSR instead, when he's better able to afford spending for the hefty price tag that 'priceless' box-set carries.
                        Don't get me wrong. I'm quite sure the box is priceless. In fact, I'm starting to find that with music collecting, the songs are priceless but what IS a hefty price tag is the continuous "overhead expense"!

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Oh Echoes, I blew my chance to write the reply to your posts that I wanted to, at the time. . Damn, I really should have written all that I had in mind right then.

                          Anyhow, I still wanna tell you how your burgeoning love and appreciation for Led Zeppelin's career catalogue of classic songs, has been a marvellous thing to read and know, especially for a long-standing Zeppelin fanatic like me. LOL

                          Also, Echoes, we're on the same wavelength about strongly preferring and always purchasing "physical albums" a la CDs, LPs (and I still have cassettes in perfect condition). Gosh, it's the same for me regarding books, newspapers etc. I still prefer and practice the 'old-fashioned' joys of holding and reading copies in my hands and reading text off the printed page. This is despite spending hours 'online' daily, doing the stuff that I do for a living and otherwise. And, I also shunned the iPod----and the fads of random playlists of 'favourites', and listening to music 'on the go' . For me, the sophisticated, superb home stereo systems with awesome speakers and all of that I have at home OR a high-quality, sexy Discman, with proper headphones has always been my style with the music I love. And listening to Led Zeppelin, for one, demands no less.

                          Echoes, very interesting to read your personal take on the track-listings and your listening experiences with the 4-disc compilation you've been checking out lately. When you talk of 'jarring', buddy I can only nod in complete knowing agreement. The nature of the songs, the clear differences in sound and style and Plant's own singing, and the very fact that for somebody that is habituated to hearing the 'albums' with their authentic song sequencing, the 4-disc box set jumped out as a particularly bizarre experience for me. Oh, how I hated the absence of Living Loving Maid tagged onto the heady Heartbreaker, for example. And there are other stages on all the four discs, where I'd probably still be put off by the weird song sequences.

                          And hey, of the songs you cited earlier, while In the Evening and All of My Love (and a handful more in ITTOD and Presence) are my personal minor lows with Zeppelin, I love Fool in the Rain (the lyrics, especially) and The Ocean is a classy song and was a terrific way to close the excellent Houses of the Holy album. Yea, do delve into the bevy of other cool tunes contained in those discs----Nobody's Fault But Mine is a perennial favourite of mine. Though, Echoes, until you hear the stand-alone albums in full, I'd urge you to seek out and sample anew such under-played, overlooked cool cuts like Out on the Tiles, The Lemon Song and Celebration Day (the first two of which are not featured on these 4 discs). I definitely preferred the louder, more adrenalized version of I Can't Quit You Baby on the 4cd set (also on 'CODA') than the original version on the debut 'Led Zeppelin' album.

                          If anything, even being very open-minded and allowing for the novelty and freshness of such a revamped track-listing, I reckon Jimmy should have ensured that they had released a full 6-CD box-set, at one go, instead of the 4-CD set, first, and then a subsequent 2-CD as (Vol. 2), which seemed too much like such a lazy afterthought. Btw, which disc do you think you like the most? I reckon I probably like Disc One, the best.

                          I recognise and agree, mostly, with your observations about Plant's 'slump' in vocal form, starting from Presence. The music itself changed, sometimes markedly. And by Plant's own admissions, there were tremendous demands on him, vocally, in the early days, to match the genius of the musicianship that accompanied him. And you're spot-on about Page's exquisite ear for production, arrangements and technical detail and an overall knack for near-perfection. I have already commented on how I always (and especially today) marvel at Jimmy's remarkable abilities, both as an undoubted guitar legend and as a producer par excellence.

                          Lastly, Echoes, I fully appreciate your sentiments about the sheer costliness of otherwise seemingly 'priceless' music we cherish. That's why I had commented earlier about my feeling of your buying the indispensable CSR (for a Led Zeppelin connoisseur, at any rate) only when you're willing, able and comfortable going out and splurging on that particularly precious and pricey 9-CD box set. Until then, I can rest assured that you are re-discovering (even only discovering) this mighty rock band and loving the time you spend listening to those unforgettable songs, whichever way you wanna, right now.
                          "Actors really are the scum of the earth. Their behavior makes arrogant, overpaid rock stars appear positively noble' - Buzz Osborne

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Also, Echoes, we're on the same wavelength about strongly preferring and always purchasing "physical albums" a la CDs, LPs (and I still have cassettes in perfect condition). Gosh, it's the same for me regarding books, newspapers etc. I still prefer and practice the 'old-fashioned' joys of holding and reading copies in my hands and reading text off the printed page. This is despite spending hours 'online' daily, doing the stuff that I do for a living and otherwise. And, I also shunned the iPod----and the fads of random playlists of 'favourites', and listening to music 'on the go' . For me, the sophisticated, superb home stereo systems with awesome speakers and all of that I have at home OR a high-quality, sexy Discman, with proper headphones has always been my style with the music I love. And listening to Led Zeppelin, for one, demands no less.
                            Amen to that. It's weird for me since I belong to this iPod generation and yet choose to be an old-fashioned listener. Sure, people can brag about how many thousand songs they have on it (probably all downloaded too), but I doubt a lot of them heard their music in the context of an album. You discover new tunes that would not be possible by sticking to the hits. Not to mention there's a sense of mood or atmosphere hearing the whole disc. ie: Playing Reign in Blood is like a 30 minute adrenaline rush!

                            As for CDs and LPs...since becoming a hardcore collector, I've found that if I downloaded music, I don't feel like I actually 'own' it. That only comes from the physical medium. There's just something about having to switch CDs in my discman or take a record a flip to side 2. It's almost like a ritual.

                            Echoes, very interesting to read your personal take on the track-listings and your listening experiences with the 4-disc compilation you've been checking out lately. When you talk of 'jarring', buddy I can only nod in complete knowing agreement. The nature of the songs, the clear differences in sound and style and Plant's own singing, and the very fact that for somebody that is habituated to hearing the 'albums' with their authentic song sequencing, the 4-disc box set jumped out as a particularly bizarre experience for me. Oh, how I hated the absence of Living Loving Maid tagged onto the heady Heartbreaker, for example. And there are other stages on all the four discs, where I'd probably still be put off by the weird song sequences.
                            If I were to make a guess, it seems these 4 discs were reorganized with certain themes per disc; each theme represented by select albums. Disc 1 is the more bluesy, ballsy tunes from LZ I and II. The second disc introduces the folky, acoustic element of their music, as represented on LZ III, ZOSO and Houses of the Holy. When we reach the 3rd album that one is more epic in scope. You've got fewer tracks compared to the others, and I believe they are mostly longer tunes from HOTH, PG and Presence (with the exception of When the Levee Breaks). And finally, that last album is the more 'experimental' side of the band, showcasing ITTOD, PG, Presence and HOTH songs that had more synths or something. Even if these are the themes, they tend to overlap on each disc.

                            Even though I think I understand where Page was going with this track list, it still feels too mixed up now that I've had it for a few years. I took the songs that made up side 1 of LZ III and ZOSO, rearranged them in the proper order...and that made more sense. Hearing 'Friends' play right after 'Immigrant Song', the transition from 'Battle of Evermore' to Stairway to Heaven', etc. It makes more sense man!

                            Adding to a comment you made below, you're right about releasing this all in one set. If they wanted to give a new perspective to these songs, then it would make more sense for them to add 2 extra discs instead of making people spend even more for a second box. Add up the prices, and you might as well get CSR!

                            And hey, of the songs you cited earlier, while In the Evening and All of My Love (and a handful more in ITTOD and Presence) are my personal minor lows with Zeppelin, I love Fool in the Rain (the lyrics, especially) and The Ocean is a classy song and was a terrific way to close the excellent Houses of the Holy album. Yea, do delve into the bevy of other cool tunes contained in those discs----Nobody's Fault But Mine is a perennial favourite of mine. Though, Echoes, until you hear the stand-alone albums in full, I'd urge you to seek out and sample anew such under-played, overlooked cool cuts like Out on the Tiles, The Lemon Song and Celebration Day (the first two of which are not featured on these 4 discs). I definitely preferred the louder, more adrenalized version of I Can't Quit You Baby on the 4cd set (also on 'CODA') than the original version on the debut 'Led Zeppelin' album.
                            Look at it this way: the 30 second clip off Amazon of "Out on the Tiles" is enough to convince me I need the albums. And you're right, 'Nobody's Fault by Mine' is a good track...along with No Quarter. What I have been doing too is checking songs I probably haven't heard on the radio too much. Remember what I said about hidden gems?

                            As for 'I Can't Quit You Baby', I cannot comment on the version off their debut yet. But what do believe is the version off Coda is a live track from their early days. I heard the exact same arrangement, right down to Bonham's solo at the end, off the 2 disc DVD set.

                            I can understand what you mean about those other tracks off ITTOD and Presence. It probably doesn't faze me as much because of my own attitude about music and the fact I'm discovering all this 'posthumously', for lack of a better word. I never was alive to see Zeppelin at their peak, I never experience the scorn of Ozzy being kicked out of Sabbath, did not become shocked when Rush threw more synths into their sound or saw Peter Gabriel prancing around in the flower costume when he fronted Genesis. So seeing all these guys decades later means I never endured any pain from those changes in the band. Discovering music later is a strange feeling indeed. I'm sure we both butted heads over the post-Ozzy material (and I'm sure neither of us is looking to pick a fight ), so what we can both agree on is it's probably all a matter of personal taste I suppose. That or there's something wrong with me in the head if I can enjoy some Phil Collins-fronted Genesis or Dio-Sabbath along with their classic years :haha:

                            Of course the downside to this is, unlike you RLP, I cannot say I 'grew up with the band' if that makes any sense. Never having any albums released around important events in my life, or growing from adolesence to adulthood following one of my favourite bands is something I missed out on.

                            My favourite disc? Hmm...I do like the first disc, but my pick would be the second disc. Not because it's the one with 'Stairway' of course. But one facet I'm loving more about Zeppelin is their acoustic material. It just has such majesty and beauty in the sound. And when you electrify the music in an acoustic track, it just hits more powerfully! Take Tangerine as I said earlier. It's soft and subtle, the electric guitar adds some colour to the chorus. But when the solo comes, it strong...almost like it tugs at your strings like a David Gilmour solo!

                            Lastly, Echoes, I fully appreciate your sentiments about the sheer costliness of otherwise seemingly 'priceless' music we cherish. That's why I had commented earlier about my feeling of your buying the indispensable CSR (for a Led Zeppelin connoisseur, at any rate) only when you're willing, able and comfortable going out and splurging on that particularly precious and pricey 9-CD box set. Until then, I can rest assured that you are re-discovering (even only discovering) this mighty rock band and loving the time you spend listening to those unforgettable songs, whichever way you wanna, right now.
                            Believe me RLP, I'd be buying that set in a flash if I didn't already plan on getting the Beatles set once the 'economy' picks again for me. Not sure what the currency rates are in Australia, but around here I'd have to pay about $250 Canadian for the set...but it's apparently out of print. A part of me does want to get the albums outside of the box since it looks more affordable. For about $75, I can get LZ I to HOTH and ITTOD, add $8 for Presence and $15-$30 for PG depending on the retailer. Would the CSR be a better investment even with these prices?

                            Also, as mentioned earlier there's a new 'complete recordings' type set that was released around the same time as the Mothership compilation. How is this set compared to the CSR?

                            And once again RLP, I much appreciate your storytelling about Led Zeppelin.
                            Last edited by Echoes; 11-06-2009, 09:19 AM. Reason: Added one last quote, and fixed one of my paragraphs

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Haha, if I go on lavishing loving praise on Zeppelin, I'd soon be excommunicated from the House of Black Sabbath here. I've already 'sinned ' unforgivably by confessing how Led Zeppelin edges out Black Sabbath, on my card of loved favourites in '70s Rock.

                              Anyway, Echoes, lemme respond to some of your comments above.

                              First, I gotta tell you how one of the greatest and enduring (musical) regrets of my life is failing to watch LIVE and actually live through the era of the iconic legends like Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin and Van Halen, to name the three stand-outs, for me. I was too young, too far away, and well, simply unaware of and unable to experience these bands in their heydays.

                              So, no, I didn't really "grow up with the band(s)". I was born in distant Australia, in '76; when Zeppelin was in late-career and was onto their seventh record, Presence; Sabbath landed the sublime Sabotage on us, and Van Halen were just getting together deciding what to do. I 'discovered' and started seriously listening to all three of these powerhouse bands in the late-'80s, (just before I had turned 13) and a time when Sabbath, sadly, were mired in abject mediocrity, Van Halen had already turned into the atrocious Van Hagar and Led Zeppelin, alas, had permanently ceased to exist. Mercifully, though, I actually started with Sabbath with the s-t debut and went through with successive releases, in order. I had finished with the entire Ozzy era before I decided to give the rest of their discography a try. I quickly realised that my heart belonged firmly and exclusively in the original era with Ozzy. Yea, I wouldn't wanna start a new 'fight' over these old issues here; I've already had several run-ins over such matters with some people here in the past. Ditto Van Halen, i.e. I first heard through the six classic discs with DLR and gosh, I knew from the start that was the real deal and all that I'd ever love by the band. One of the many reasons why I, (in hindsight, far down the line) always thought Led Zeppelin's disbanding was ultimately a very good thing and one of the biggest favours the band did to themselves and their fans. I mean, I couldn't bear to witness the very real prospect of Zeppelin ever becoming what Sabbath and Van Halen had become with different singers and other ever-changing personnel (a la Sabbath), and consequently putting out what I would (and in Sabbath and VH's case, I actually did) consider thoroughly third-rate records. But mate, I'll never hold anything against you or ANYBODY else that actually enjoys and has words of praise for Dio-Sabbath or the other post-Ozzy eras/albums.

                              But yes, there's no doubt that after I discovered these three bands at age 12,life was never the same again. And my entire teenage years were definitely the better off and happier with the presence of such music in my life. And as I've already said earlier, it still amazes me no end, how classic Zeppelin especially, and Sabbath (and Van Halen too) have all 'aged' incredibly well, in my eyes. I still get the same thrills and feelings of awe when I listen to these bands and my loved songs, as I did when I first heard them, nearly twenty years ago. Sure, I guess I learned to appreciate and love them even more as I got older.

                              Alright, to your other remarks. Now, I've always speculated about the thing you suggest about Page's 'thematic' intentions with the 4-disc box set. Later, I felt it was pretty obvious what the 'formula' for the tracklistings on each disc was all about. And it still rankles me and puts me out of whack to not hear the rumbles of the riveting Rock & Roll, right after the boisterously cool Black Dog. LOL...And you know how I, too, think the world of Page's acoustic brilliance and the sheer emotive power and beauty of songs like Tangerine or That's The Way. And yea, I'd say I like Disc 1 & 2 best.

                              We're on the same page regarding the iPod. I don't see myself ever using that cutesy creature cos I'd never want or need it, at all. LOL And about 'downloading'....Oh Echoes, my feelings on that are pretty strong and unchanging. While I don't overly judge or begrudge compulsive 'downloaders', I do discourage people that I know well, from doing it..or at least as little as possible. I NEVER download music (albums) and never will, when I have every intention to BUY the albums I want. It has always been and will remain a matter of principles and well...personal needs and tastes. Yes, the pleasures of owning and using 'physical' CD albums being one major consideration among many, to my shunning the sneaky alleys of downloading and related vices. LOL . I bemoan the steady trivialisation and cheapening of 'music' by fans that seem to always want it for 'free'. There's more to say on this, but I'll leave it at that, here.

                              Echoes, I felt the Mothership release ('07??) was another strange, rather unnecessary release--and reeked too much like a record label 'cash-grab' of a Greatest Hits-type compilation catering to nostalgic fans giddy with whiffs of rumoured 'reunions' of the Zepsters and all that jazz, if you know what I mean. I guess only those that would love to have a 2-CD 'Best Of' plus half of 'live' song recordings off the Led Zeppelin DVD, would bother to buy this.

                              But, the so-called Definitive Collection a la the 'new complete recordings' you referred to, seems to be a pretty cool, worthwhile release of only just a year ago. It is identical to the CSR in that it also contains all nine of the original Led Zeppelin studio albums (including CODA) digitally remastered, plus the unreleased tracks that feature on your 4-disc box set and the CSR. But DC's 'bonus' selling point is that it also contains the 2-CD remastered edition of the film soundtrack The Song Remains the Same, which also includes bonus tracks (15 live tracks in all, not half-bad eh?) So, you have 12 discs in total (and the CSR has 10, not 9, as I carelessly stated earlier).

                              The packaging of DC is superb, with the mini 'replica' sleeves featuring the original vinyl artwork of each and every studio album, arranged in chronoligical order. I have seen it only once; a friend of mine bought it last Christmas. I'm not overly fond of The Song Remains the Same, or else I (the greedy, rich fan ) would have probably bought the DC too. LOL

                              Echoes, if you reckon your love affair with Led Zeppelin will lastfor a long time, I'd urge you seek out and buy the How The West Was Won 3-disc DVD, whenever you feel ready.

                              Right now, I don't know why, but I feel the urge to listen to Ramble On....and I don't even have a woman to call my own, today. lol...Zeppelin's blues might be the cure. But I never could sing like the inimitable, one and only Robert Plant. HAHAHA.
                              Last edited by RLP4ever; 11-07-2009, 01:08 AM.
                              "Actors really are the scum of the earth. Their behavior makes arrogant, overpaid rock stars appear positively noble' - Buzz Osborne

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by H&H View Post
                                I agree 100% with ya RLP, ZEP II is their shining moment. It is by far, start to finish, their best work. This is not to diminish or take away any of the other albums. IMO, LZII is the best Zeppelin album.

                                It's funny how we all view things differently. To me, Zep 1 is far better than Zep 2. Zep 1 is totally consistent from beginning to end. Absolutely solid with no filler whatsoever.

                                Zep 2 is patchy for me. I also don't care for that nonsense in the middle of "Whole Lotta Love". And I lose respect for Zeppelin for ripping that song off and not crediting the original song writer, for which they were rightly sued. I absolutely love John Bonham's drumming, but even I find "Moby Dick" indulgent and going on an on. Then you have something like "The Lemon Song" which is actually a bit of a lemon-appropriate title.

                                Nope, Zep 2 is not their finest. For me, it's a toss up between Zep 1, 4 and Physical Graffiti.

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