Cross purposes

[Joe Siegler]

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It was in the mailing list more than three years ago I'm sure, otherwise I'd search for it...

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I jacked up the search limit. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Psycho Man]

On the live version the song Black Sabbath what is the part between the bells and the main riff????

[David86]

That's a good album, my favorite song is "I Witness" with "Back To Eden" in second place.

"Cross Of Thorns" and "Dying For Love" were also really good, but "Psychophobia" was just meh to me, along with the rest of the record.

By the way Joe, are you sure that EVH didn't play on "Evil Eye"? The intro solo sounds like something only he could play. Altough the main solo sounds more Iommi-ish.

[El Lobo]

This is indeed a strong album but not the best from TM era IMO. I find "The hand that rocks the cradle", "Cross Of Thorns" and "Dying For Love" to be EXCELENT songs. The rest are OK to me but nothing great. I guess the they are trying too hard to sound like old Sabbath sometimes (Virtual death, psycophobia, etc) which for me is not a good thing.

[Joe Siegler]

[ QUOTE ]
By the way Joe, are you sure that EVH didn't play on "Evil Eye"? The intro solo sounds like something only he could play. Altough the main solo sounds more Iommi-ish.

[/ QUOTE ]

My sources say no, he didn't. Either they're lying, or just don't know themselves. Until someone tells me otherwise with proof, I'll have to go with that.

[Psychophobia]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
By the way Joe, are you sure that EVH didn't play on "Evil Eye"? The intro solo sounds like something only he could play. Altough the main solo sounds more Iommi-ish.

[/ QUOTE ]

My sources say no, he didn't. Either they're lying, or just don't know themselves. Until someone tells me otherwise with proof, I'll have to go with that.

[/ QUOTE ]
What's odd, is when I asked Tony Iommi about this on one of the first Q&A's at his website, he said:

"He [Eddie] was doing a gig nearby. He came round to my house where we were rehearsing and just jammed along. I don't think we were really thinking about legal things. We just recorded it."

So by Tony's words, it sounds like there is a version with EVH on it somewhere - it sure as hell doesn't sound like EVH on the album, to my ears. If it does exist, and Tony wasn't just suffering memory loss, then this version of Evil Eye would be right up there with the Tony Martin Dehumanizer Demos for most-wanted recordings, for me.

[Defender]

Another solid and shining effort from Sabbath. I I don't like some of the tracks, 'Virtual Death'-'Cardinal Sin'-'Back to Eden' but the rest is absolutely awesome. 'Cross of Thorns' is the highlight of the album for me and 'The Hand that rocks the Cradle' is a true masterpiece track. Plus the sound is the perfect mix between the power and the grace. Rondinelli is really a skin beater, he and Butler are one of the most solid and powerful drum-bass sections ever.
I just can't have enough of the Martin's Sabbath!

[paul hill]

Joe I picked up the song what,s the use.You was right.I really love it.

[Joe Siegler]

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Joe I picked up the song what,s the use.You was right.I really love it.

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What's the Use? and Cloak & Dagger (from Headless Cross) are two lost gems. Most people don't even know they exist, let alone heard them. Shame too, as they're great.

[EvilCheese]

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Joe I picked up the song what,s the use.You was right.I really love it.

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What's the Use? and Cloak & Dagger (from Headless Cross) are two lost gems. Most people don't even know they exist, let alone heard them. Shame too, as they're great.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just happened to be listening to Cloak & Dagger just now. It's a shame this one is burried, such a good song. Same with What's the Use... here's hoping they show up officially in a Black Box, or something or other, but I guess I won't hold out hope.

[cuneglasus]

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By the way Joe, are you sure that EVH didn't play on "Evil Eye"? The intro solo sounds like something only he could play. Altough the main solo sounds more Iommi-ish.

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I have always thought that too.Especially the flypicked lines near the end sound like Eddie,but the guitar sounds more like Tony's than anything he usually plays.

[NovemberRain]

Another amazing Martin album. A very good follow up to Dehumanizer in the sense that it retains a heavy feel, but doesn't forget to add the melody. Hard rockers like Psychophobia and I Witness are brilliantly teamed with emotional master pieces like Cross of Thorns and Dying for Love. Dio's follow up, Strange Highways, on the other hand dwelled far too much on the hard sound and didn’t deliver any music with emotion.

[epicus]

I've always loved this album. "Cross of Thorns" is one of my all time favorite Sabbath tunes. Iommi's solo in that song is also brilliant. I think what makes me love that album so much is the presence of Geezer. The bass lines are of course amazing but his contribution in the writing side is what really does it for me.

I have the Cross Purposes live video and although Martin claims his voice was under the weather he still sounds great. It should be noted that with Martin they did the entire version of "Symptom" and "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath" Something they either can't or refuse to do with Ozzy. I don't have any Martin era live bootlegs and I've been looking around on ebay. I'm a little disappointed in many of the setlists, I wish they would have played more stuff from the Martin era live.

[El Lobo]

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I wish they would have played more stuff from the Martin era live.

[/ QUOTE ]

Some bootlegs from the Tyr tour had some amazing setlists. For a slendid Martin Era bootles, check out Headless in Russia.

[Arjun Mohan]

Doesn't "Evil Eye" sound like a slow Rage Against The Machine track? It's got a similar rhythm and slow guitar riff that can be heard throughout the song. It's not even melodic- you can put in the former RATM vocalist's voice and it would sound a lot like what they did!

[Nightwing]

I dont know where you get RATM there. It sounds a little like Alice in Chains tho.

[Arjun Mohan]

IF you have heard the first album of RATM, as well as their version of "Ghost of Tom Joad", or "Revolver" from Evil Empire, you would notice a similar feel, particularly in the slow pace and the riff that stands out.

[Ntl Acrobat]

Great Album. Having Geezer on board really makes it good, plus it just sounds good.

[Prezuiwf]

[ QUOTE ]
Doesn't "Evil Eye" sound like a slow Rage Against The Machine track? It's got a similar rhythm and slow guitar riff that can be heard throughout the song. It's not even melodic- you can put in the former RATM vocalist's voice and it would sound a lot like what they did!

[/ QUOTE ]

It probably is about as close to RATM as Sabbath ever got, and I could imagine Zach de la Rocha rapping over it, now that I think about it.

[Bill M]

>>Doesn't "Evil Eye" sound like a slow Rage Against The
>>Machine track?

Don't most of riffs from Rage Against The Machine sound like they were lifted from Black Sabbath?

[Bill M]

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possible [sic] you know dio he says rainbow to[sic] god damn much.

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He's used the word on TWO songs over the past 15 years.

[racer]

[ QUOTE ]
>>Doesn't "Evil Eye" sound like a slow Rage Against The
>>Machine track?

Don't most of riffs from Rage Against The Machine sound like they were lifted from Black Sabbath?

[/ QUOTE ]

And the RATM guitarist admitted to being a Sabbath fan and influenced by Iommi ... go figure

[Kgb]

Still listening to Cross purposes while typing this post....
its a comlpete album with fantastic guitaring...and the vocals by Tony martin is excellent...
But one Important element in this album is the sound of Keyboards where Geoff Nicholls has done it beautifully it has the element of dark gloomy stuff which inspires a lot of recent Black Metal bands to use such elements of keyboards...

[Tim10770]

recently got this cd and i think it rocks decent lyrics and production another gem from thr tony and tony version of sabbath.

[Leonid]

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The thing I'll say about that DVD is this..
Plus it *IS* on a DVD, and that alone is a better choice than a VHS tape.

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Not so quick, Joe. You have no good source to compare to. I have the original VHS/CD double pack that I bought 11 years ago (the North American release). I agree with you, that Master From The Vaults DVD is a much better choice than the North American release of the double pack in terms of both sound and picture. The bootlegs you see on Ebay are also crappy quality North American VHS transfers.

I recently went ahead and bought the European PAL version of this release from Ebay. Comparing it to US/Canada release is night and day. The PAL VHS looks *almost* as good as the official DVD. And believe it or not the sound on the VHS is actually way better than that on Master From The Vaults DVD. It's not 5.1, it's just stereo, but it does sound better. I did record the whole thing to DVD and with some digital noise reductions and sharpening filters applied I achieved the quality which is actually a bit better than that on official Masters From The Vaults DVD. And no, I'm not advertising this DVD for sale or whatsoever. I don't sell bootlegs. But I'm pretty happy to have the full concert in a good quality. And I guess I can share this DVD sometime in the future if Black Sabbath doesn't mind. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

--Leonid

[Joe Siegler]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The thing I'll say about that DVD is this..
Plus it *IS* on a DVD, and that alone is a better choice than a VHS tape.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not so quick, Joe. You have no good source to compare to. I have the original VHS/CD double pack that I bought 11 years ago (the North American release). I agree with you, that Master From The Vaults DVD is a much better choice than the North American release of the double pack in terms of both sound and picture. The bootlegs you see on Ebay are also crappy quality North American VHS transfers.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't talking about the transfer or the quality of the video. Just the physical fact that a DVD will have less detioriation issues like a VHS tape will.

[Icarus]

I like all of the songs except Virtual Death and Cardinal Sin. I remember reading a review (it might have even been here) that someone thought the beginning of Cardinal Sin sounded like Led Zeppelin! Ha...no. Psychphobia, I Wittness, and Dying For Love are the best tracks on here I think.

[ErikMoreno]

yeah well the track which was the most difficult to "get used to" was virtual death... actually this is kinda strange because I've liked every sabbath tune from the very first moment I listen it (yeah, "even blow on a jug" and "FX"!)

[Bob Bykowski]

Not only is 'Cross Purposes' the best Tony Martin-era Sabbath album, it is one of the best Sabbath albums period. Great line-up for the band --- great to have Geezer back and working with Tony Martin, Bobby Rondinelli on the drums kicks just as hard as Cozy Powell, Iommi's riffs sound dark and menacing again, and the whole lyrical concept about religious hypocrisy is direct and well thought-out, and fits the Sabbath tradition. Fantastic album and very underrated.

[OzzyIsDio]

What’s The Use? is a dang good song, I have the Japanese edition and that song kicks ass!

[William_the_Bloody]

I have nothing bad to say about Cross Purposes. It's as Black Sabbathy Martin Era can be without slipping into cheese.

[jstheconqueror]

I love Cross Purposes. It’s like Sabbath N Chains.

[ozzyandharriet]

I’ve always liked “Virtual Death”. The comparison to Alice In Chains gets thrown around a lot but I was playing it for a friend recently who doesn’t care for much post-Ozzy and he heard it as something more akin to “Who Are You?”. Too bad Martin toned his lyrics down after Headless Cross. With Just a tad more Satan, this album might creep up in my ranking of Sabbath’s albums. They had Geezer there. Should have been easy.

[Ala]

Killer album

[Wicked Cricket]

the biggest problem I have with the Martin era is the production..it's flat, nothing stands out and it over all sucks...

[BACK TO EDEN]

the biggest problem I have with the Martin era is the production..it's flat, nothing stands out and it over all sucks...

Eternal Idol - 10th most spectacular SABBATH album ever made ...

Headless Cross - Tied for the #1 SABBATH album ever made ...

TYR - The 4th most "talented" SABBATH album ever made ...

Cross Purposes - The Martin Era statement piece!

Forbidden - an underrated GEM , "Kiss Of Death" a top 10 SABBATH composition ...


.... Thank God for these 5 albums!



























..... I know production was your point ,, I just got excited

[Wicked Cricket]

Eternal Idol - 10th most spectacular SABBATH album ever made ...

Headless Cross - Tied for the #1 SABBATH album ever made ...

TYR - The 4th most "talented" SABBATH album ever made ...

Cross Purposes - The Martin Era statement piece!

Forbidden - an underrated GEM , "Kiss Of Death" a top 10 SABBATH composition ...


.... Thank God for these 5 albums!



























..... I know production was your point ,, I just got excited

I do love Kiss Of Death though..the production on that one song seems different in a much better way... great great song...

[Kennyz]

the biggest problem I have with the Martin era is the production..it's flat, nothing stands out and it over all sucks...

I think the biggest problem with the Martin era is the songs, except The Shining and Headless Cross the songs are weaker than on all the albums before the Martin era. Im not a big fan of Martins voice either.

[BACK TO EDEN]

the songs are weaker than on all the albums before the Martin era..

.... hmmmm ,, interesting ?? ,, I'm aware of 46 studio tracks , 2 bonus tracks , 4 extra tracks , 7 alternate cuts , 39 demo cuts , 247 live takes - and I have yet to hear this "weaker" than Ozzy , Dio , Ian , Hughes track you talk of ,, but I will keep searching - that's for sure!

[BACK TO EDEN]

“Souled-Out” OR "Cross Purposes" .... original title OR released title ,,,, which do you prefer ?? , for me it's CP , but the original is definitely kool!