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  1. #1

    Default Your Preference of "Eternal Idol" Vocalists

    Since this came up in another thread. I prefer Tony Martin.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Your Preference of "Eternal Idol" Vocalists

    This is tough, I think Ray Gillen sounds better on it, but then again, the material was written with his voice in mind, so it's not really fair to Tony Martin.

  3. #3
    Prezuiwf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Your Preference of "Eternal Idol" Vocalists

    I love Ray Gillen but he actually sounded out of place on the demos-- this is probably because he was new in the band and he probably would have been better on the final mixes, but Tony sounds great on the finished version.

    I always thought Iommi's choice of vocalists was interesting here. After Ozzy, he hired 3 very well-known vocalists who had had success with other bands. Then with Eternal Idol, he did a 180 and hired the unknown Ray Gillen. Then, when he left, Iommi hired ANOTHER unknown in Tony Martin. Anybody have any idea why this was the case? Did Iommi simply want to do an album with some undiscovered talent?

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    Default Re: Your Preference of "Eternal Idol" Vocalists

    Ray Gillen
    i heard 2 bootlegs with Ray and it was much better alive then with Martin

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    Non Insect Overlord Joe Siegler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Your Preference of "Eternal Idol" Vocalists

    [ QUOTE ]
    I always thought Iommi's choice of vocalists was interesting here. After Ozzy, he hired 3 very well-known vocalists who had had success with other bands. Then with Eternal Idol, he did a 180 and hired the unknown Ray Gillen.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Well, look where the band was at the time. The situation with Hughes fell apart pretty quickly, and they had to hire someone on the fly - you didn't have the usual procedure of listening to dozens of tapes, pondering your choice.

    By all accounts, Ray got the audition because he was a friend of Dave Spitz, who recommended him to Tony. It was very much a seat of the pants maneuver.
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Your Preference of "Eternal Idol" Vocalists

    As much as I love the "Eternal Idol" era shows, and as much as I love Tony Martin, I must confess the "Eternal Idol" album is one I never managed to get totally into with Martin singing. I always found his vocals unnatural here, even before I even knew of the Gillen thing. Then I heard Ray Gillen's version of the album and I instantly loved it !

    So : Ray :-)
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    Default Re: Your Preference of "Eternal Idol" Vocalists

    Interesting- now it's fifty-fifty, but i prefer tony Martin. For me he was a best Sabbath singer.

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    Default Re: Your Preference of "Eternal Idol" Vocalists

    I am unable to vote, as I haven't heard all of Ray Gillen's material with Eternal Idol. I only have one track of him singin' anything on this album, and that's "Ancient Warrior" (which is quite a fantastic rendition, if I do say so myself...). Could anybody, per chance, hook me up with a copy of Gillen's Eternal Idol material?
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  9. #9

    Default Re: Your Preference of "Eternal Idol" Vocalists

    I'm listening to the Eternal Idol demos bootleg as I write this, and although Ray Gillen's voice is great, I prefer the Tony Martin version. Having said that, Tony did have the advantage of singing on a properly produced and mixed version, whereas Ray's version of the album has only been released as a bootleg. A good quality bootleg, but a bootleg nonetheless

  10. #10

    Default Re: Your Preference of "Eternal Idol" Vocalists

    Ray's voice was very good but it was a little high for my taste. It reminds me a lot of the thousand and thousand power metal vocalists, everyone of them trying to see who can sing higher.

    The thing I like with Martin's voice, is his "bluesiness" (is this a word?), and the raspiness of his voice, and the fact that even having a somehow low and raspy voice, he can hit some incredible high notes (in Carrie on Forcefield II there are some imposible notes he hits).

    More than that, I think Martin's voice is so melodic, that he could sing some Kreator or Sodom death metal song and still sound melodic. Martin is such a chameleon that he can sing with a high voice sometimes, add some Dio flavor if he wants, add a nasal tone to some songs, sing Coverdale classics **very well**, sound aggressive as with Giuntini, poppy as with Empire, etc, but always sounding like Martin. He's very versatil singer.

  11. #11
    Non Insect Overlord Joe Siegler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Your Preference of "Eternal Idol" Vocalists

    [ QUOTE ]
    I'm listening to the Eternal Idol demos bootleg as I write this, and although Ray Gillen's voice is great

    [/ QUOTE ]

    There's multiple versions of this. I'm aware of three versions of the thing with Ray Gillen on it. One is fairly early on, as the guitar solos aren't on the songs. The other is more advanced, has solos, and basically sounds like the finished one but with Ray on it.

    Then there's a third, which is all instrumental.

    None of them have Scarlet Pimpernel on 'em. That might be where Bev Bevan shows up, kind of like the mysterious "flute" on Born Again. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Your Preference of "Eternal Idol" Vocalists

    [ QUOTE ]


    The thing I like with Martin's voice, is his "bluesiness" (is this a word?), and the raspiness of his voice, and the fact that even having a somehow low and raspy voice, he can hit some incredible high notes (in Carrie on Forcefield II there are some imposible notes he hits).


    [/ QUOTE ]

    You know,thats a bit of an illusion.TM's speaking voice is actually rather higher than normal so when he sings lower it is actually below his normal range.It was a perfect technique for conveying his incredible range-something like 5.5 octaves.What I love is that he will frequently skip octaves in the course of a single melody line-going for a note much higher than expected.

    I prefere TM on Eternal Idol.Ray had a nice voice but not the range or technique of Tony,and his tone was sometimes "girlish" to my ear.Live he was ok,but didnt hold a candle to TM at his prime in 89 and 90.It's a shame too many are only familiar with his lackluster performances from the CP and Forbidden tours.

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    Non Insect Overlord Joe Siegler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Your Preference of "Eternal Idol" Vocalists

    [ QUOTE ]
    I prefere TM on Eternal Idol.Ray had a nice voice but not the range or technique of Tony,and his tone was sometimes "girlish" to my ear.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Keep in mind the versions of EI with Ray Gillen weren't completed. It's not totally fair to judge it as Tony's work was a polished finished product. The Ray Gillen version was not.
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    Default Re: Your Preference of "Eternal Idol" Vocalists *DELETED*

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  15. #15

    Default Re: Your Preference of "Eternal Idol" Vocalists

    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    I prefere TM on Eternal Idol.Ray had a nice voice but not the range or technique of Tony,and his tone was sometimes "girlish" to my ear.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Keep in mind the versions of EI with Ray Gillen weren't completed. It's not totally fair to judge it as Tony's work was a polished finished product. The Ray Gillen version was not.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Right, but on the other side, vocal melodies were written by Ray for his voice, and it's not fair too...

  16. #16

    Default Re: Your Preference of "Eternal Idol" Vocalists

    At the end of the day, there's no way to 'prove' which vocalist was better; it's purely a matter of opinion. For what it's worth, I think Tony Martin deserves a lot of credit for coming into a band of Black Sabbath's stature on short notice and not only recording a whole album's worth of vocals (with the obvious exception of the one instrumental track), but doing a good job of it too. We also shouldn't forget that, as sad as it is that Ray Gillen died, he did leave Sabbath in the lurch by exiting the band just before the scheduled release of an album.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Your Preference of "Eternal Idol" Vocalists

    Well I don't have the demos. I'm trying to get them right now. They should be done by tomorrow hopefully.

    I think Ray Gillan would sound better though judging from the clip of ancient worriar on his website.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Your Preference of "Eternal Idol" Vocalists

    [ QUOTE ]
    We also shouldn't forget that, as sad as it is that Ray Gillen died, he did leave Sabbath in the lurch by exiting the band just before the scheduled release of an album.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Understandably,people are reluctant to speak ill of the dead but by all appearances Gillen was more interested in putting himself across than in putting his heart into Sabbath.It's not surpriseing a hired vocalist wouldnt share Iommi's vision but it is in stark contrast to Tony Martin.He could have walked at any time but seemed to see it as more than a job-something bigger than himself- and Iommi was damn lucky he showed such loyalty.

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    Default Re: Your Preference of "Eternal Idol" Vocalists *DELETED*

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  20. #20
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    Default Re: Your Preference of "Eternal Idol" Vocalists

    It's all different. I can't choose which ones better. Their voices are different yet both of them sound great doing the songs.

  21. #21
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    I would have to say Ray Gillen.
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  22. #22
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    I have to say Ray Gillen. I saw Sabbath on the Seventh Star tour with Ray Gillen and I remember being confused when Eternal Idol came out as Tony Martin was listed as the vocalist. I hadn't heard that Ray had left the band. Either way I enjoy both versions of this album.

  23. #23
    OzzyIsDio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7th Star 86/ View Post
    I have to say Ray Gillen. I saw Sabbath on the Seventh Star tour with Ray Gillen and I remember being confused when Eternal Idol came out as Tony Martin was listed as the vocalist. I hadn't heard that Ray had left the band. Either way I enjoy both versions of this album.
    I enjoy both versions as well, but the Gillen version sounds better, my opinion Ray was the better singer.
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  24. #24
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    I definitely prefer Tony Martin.

    For me, Ray Gillen is just a little too high pitched and clean, like his voice sort of lacks a bit of grit and power. Tony Martin is just a phenomenal vocalist and he puts his passion into the words a bit more effectively compared with Ray. Obviously Tony's singing Ray's vocal lines word for word, so credit to Ray for putting it together, but I think Tony Martin smashes it.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Requiem View Post
    I definitely prefer Tony Martin.

    For me, Ray Gillen is just a little too high pitched and clean, like his voice sort of lacks a bit of grit and power. Tony Martin is just a phenomenal vocalist and he puts his passion into the words a bit more effectively compared with Ray. Obviously Tony's singing Ray's vocal lines word for word, so credit to Ray for putting it together, but I think Tony Martin smashes it.
    I don't know about this statement Requiem, I always say to each his own, have you heard the Eternal Idol Gillen sessions and the live disc with Ray on the Seventh Star Deluxe Edition? Ray is just amazing, he sings every Sabbath era song with passion and sounds better than any other Sabbath singer singing songs from eras not their own.
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzzyIsDio View Post
    I don't know about this statement Requiem, I always say to each his own, have you heard the Eternal Idol Gillen sessions and the live disc with Ray on the Seventh Star Deluxe Edition? Ray is just amazing, he sings every Sabbath era song with passion and sounds better than any other Sabbath singer singing songs from eras not their own.
    Wow, you're a huge Gillen fan! The only work of his that I've actually heard is his version of 'The Eternal Idol'. I'm interested in hearing his work with Badlands which I haven't got around to checking out yet, which is unfortunate, because Jake E Lee, Ray and Eric Singer all together sounds like a fantastic mix.

    But yeah, just based off 'The Eternal Idol', which is what the thread is asking, I'm going with Tony Martin. A great tragedy that Ray died so young, though. Who knows what he might have done had he lived a little longer?

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Requiem View Post
    Wow, you're a huge Gillen fan! The only work of his that I've actually heard is his version of 'The Eternal Idol'. I'm interested in hearing his work with Badlands which I haven't got around to checking out yet, which is unfortunate, because Jake E Lee, Ray and Eric Singer all together sounds like a fantastic mix.

    But yeah, just based off 'The Eternal Idol', which is what the thread is asking, I'm going with Tony Martin. A great tragedy that Ray died so young, though. Who knows what he might have done had he lived a little longer?
    I wouldn't say I'm a huge Gillen fan, I really only got to know him on those Eternal Idol sessions and the live CD on the Seventh Star deluxe album, and hearing his voice on that live album is what made me a fan of his, never really heard the Badlands stuff.

    It is sad he died so young.
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