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  1. #81
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    Default Re: Forbidden, was it THAT bad???

    This aint a bad album and gets played more than the likes of Technical Ecstasy by my good self though the general feeling of it is rushed and a missed oppurtunity especially after the brilliant Cross Purposes.

  2. #82
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    Default Re: Forbidden, was it THAT bad???

    Kiss of Death is in the same league as When Death Calls, Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, Children of the Sea etc when it comes to quality.
    Probably one of the best Sabbath songs ever.
    Everybody who condemn Forbidden, atleast admit it.

  3. #83
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    Default Re: Forbidden, was it THAT bad???

    I love the album, that's why I made the topic for it!

  4. #84

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    Default Re: Forbidden, was it THAT bad???

    Kiss of Death is the best song on the album, my opinion. It is my least favourite album as a whole. I think the writing is not the greatest, but there are some songs that are okay. I really didn't like Sabbath with Cozy and Neil as members. I don't know, I just think Tony wasn't focused enough to do a great Sabbath album with Cozy around. It maybe just me, who knows. The cover is something that is even strange, great artwork if they didn't do the silly artwork of the band members, very cheesy in my opinion. The grim reaper was cool though.

  5. #85
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    Default Re: Forbidden, was it THAT bad???

    Originally Posted By: gunman42782 I think it gets trashed more than it should. The only song I hate on it is the first with Ice T. I honestly think that one song has turned most hard core Sabbath fans against the album. The rest of the album is pretty good. But, to be fair, even Tony Martin said it was the worse album he made with Sabbath.
    Which is odd because it has the classic sabbath riffage.
    The time it is coming when all life will end,
    With doomsday approaching to hell we'll descend.
    Religion won't save me, the damage is done.
    The future has ended before it's begun.

  6. #86
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    Default Re: Forbidden, was it THAT bad???

    Only Sabbath CD I have but never play, just didn't do it for me

  7. #87
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    Default Re: Forbidden, was it THAT bad???

    Originally Posted By: Mark Yerger Only Sabbath CD I have but never play, just didn't do it for me
    Give it another try before you give up on it!
    I wasn't impressed at all the first time I heard it, but now I love it. Listen to Kiss of Death, Rusty Angels, Sick and Tired.

  8. #88
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    Default Re: Forbidden, was it THAT bad???

    I actually enjoyed this (hense sstarting this topic) it was a really good one-with a great line up too!

  9. #89

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    Default Re: Forbidden, was it THAT bad???

    I just thought I would add my 2 cents on this one. Although definitely not my favorite Sabbath album with Tony Martin, and probably not in my top 10 Sabbath albums, "Forbidden" is still pretty damn good.

    "Kiss of Death", "Guilty As Hell", "Rusty Angels" and "Shaking Off the Chains" and "Get A Grip" are great songs IMO. Yes, the mix on this album is not the greatest, and TM's lyrics do get a little too repetitive at some points, but overall a fairly solid album that would be excellent with some re-mastering. I like it more than "Born Again", "Never Say Die" and "Technical Ecstasy", so that puts it still in the top 95% of recorded albums IMO.

  10. #90

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    Default Re: Forbidden, was it THAT bad???

    Kiss of death is a great song. I've got Forbidden about 10 years ago and it is still good to me as it used to be. It is best Tony Martin era album.

  11. #91
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    Default Re: Forbidden, was it THAT bad???

    Originally Posted By: Psychdoc I just thought I would add my 2 cents on this one. Although definitely not my favorite Sabbath album with Tony Martin, and probably not in my top 10 Sabbath albums, "Forbidden" is still pretty damn good.

    "Kiss of Death", "Guilty As Hell", "Rusty Angels" and "Shaking Off the Chains" and "Get A Grip" are great songs IMO. Yes, the mix on this album is not the greatest, and TM's lyrics do get a little too repetitive at some points, but overall a fairly solid album that would be excellent with some re-mastering. I like it more than "Born Again", "Never Say Die" and "Technical Ecstasy", so that puts it still in the top 95% of recorded albums IMO.
    Well your 2 cents is what this thread is for brother-post on!!!

  12. #92

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    Default Re: Forbidden, was it THAT bad???

    Originally Posted By: Renaissance
    Originally Posted By: Psychdoc I just thought I would add my 2 cents on this one. Although definitely not my favorite Sabbath album with Tony Martin, and probably not in my top 10 Sabbath albums, "Forbidden" is still pretty damn good.

    "Kiss of Death", "Guilty As Hell", "Rusty Angels" and "Shaking Off the Chains" and "Get A Grip" are great songs IMO. Yes, the mix on this album is not the greatest, and TM's lyrics do get a little too repetitive at some points, but overall a fairly solid album that would be excellent with some re-mastering. I like it more than "Born Again", "Never Say Die" and "Technical Ecstasy", so that puts it still in the top 95% of recorded albums IMO.
    Well your 2 cents is what this thread is for brother-post on!!!
    Thanks!

  13. #93
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    Default Re: Forbidden, was it THAT bad???

    Well I want people to say their peice-though it's gotta be more than "it rocks" or "it sucks" you did EXACTLY what I wanted!

  14. #94
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    Default Re: Forbidden, was it THAT bad???

    I like it. Martin completely disowns it in Martin Popoff's Sabbath book though.

  15. #95

    Default Re: Forbidden, was it THAT bad???

    I think it sounds like to me that Tony's voice was starting to get "tired" in a way, he doesn't sing like he does on Eternal Idol, Cross Purposes, or Headless Cross, he just sounds different in a way. The Illusion of Power is a different track, with the rapper Ice-T and Martins vocals sound like he's trying to force it out in a way. But there are some songs that still kick ass on it, I rank it as a low Sabbath album, but it's still good and listenable to say the least, it still rocks!

  16. #96
    candyman56
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    Default Re: Forbidden, was it THAT bad???

    I bought this CD today for $8 at FYE and is not that bad, but I can see where some people complain that the production is not that good and you can hear it.

    I like "Shaking Off The Chains", reminds me a bit of Ozzy Sabbath.

    I grew up listening to Ozzy Sabbath, so the last few weeks I've been venturing into Dio and Martin Sabbath. So far the Dio stuff is excellent. I've ordered 2 Martin Sabbath albums off of ebay so I can't wait for those to arrive.

  17. #97
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    Default Re: Forbidden, was it THAT bad???

    Forbidden holds a strange place in my Sabbath collection.

    -- It sounds different than the other Martin era albums. The mixing could have been better. I'm not sure if Martin's voice is to blame, or if it's just mixing, or whatever, but it has a different feel for sure.

    -- The guitar work isn't as fancy, in terms of overdubs and such, as on previous albums. The drums are also plain by comparison. Compare the drum work and guitar work to albums like Tyr and you'll see what I mean.

    -- Illusion of Power is a Black Sabbath-esque song (and by Black Sabbath, I mean the song). In addition, it's scarily a dabble in the realm of cross-breed music, i.e. Linkin Park is metal + rap. Definitely not something that Black Sabbath should have done.

    -- Some songs, like Can't Get Close Enough sound like imitations of the ambient, scary style of music that was prevalent in Robert Prince's compositions for DOOM and DOOM II. Prince's music in general was heavily influenced by Black Sabbath, and it showed in some DOOM I/II compositions (and other games as well, but I'll leave that post for another time). It's ironic, because Forbidden was released after DOOM II, so it's as if Iommi was influenced by Prince, who was influenced by Iommi.

    -- There are some good tracks to groove to, like Guilty as Hell and Forbidden.

    I think the problem is that there's no theme holding the album together. It's uninspired in the sense that the lyrics or riffs don't seem to have a meaning, they're just making music. Most artists' albums, unfortunately, do not have this 'purpose', but Most Sabbath albums do, which is why, I think, lots of Sabbath fans can't get into Forbidden as easily. Still, there are some nice riffs, and it's great music to listen to in the background.

  18. #98
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    Default Re: Forbidden, was it THAT bad???

    Quote: Definitely not something that Black Sabbath should have done.
    for fucks sake it is four lines of Ice-T (a very good musiciana dn rapper) it is not rap though.
    "I want to tell you, yeah
    How Good It Feels
    Sleeping here with you tonight
    And that’s for real"
    -Sometimes I'm Happy 8/5/75

  19. #99
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    Default Re: Forbidden, was it THAT bad???

    Originally Posted By: Psycho Man
    Quote: Definitely not something that Black Sabbath should have done.
    for fucks sake it is four lines of Ice-T (a very good musiciana dn rapper) it is not rap though.
    Hahahaha I agree with Psycho Man, you guys are pathetic when it comes to this. He is just speaking, not rapping and I know how rappers rap!!!!
    Vic always says 'killing is my business, and business is good'.. He can play the symphony of destruction, after all the worlds needs a hero because the system has failed. Vic is on the killing road to Hangar 18, and he will Take No Prisioners on this holy wars.

    Quote by Ray Rules

  20. #100
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    Default Re: Forbidden, was it THAT bad???

    If I come off as sounding harsh against mixing music styles, it's because I consider it to be a big reason why we have so few good metal bands these days. Imagine some of the heavy riffs of Linking Park, but with no hip-hop influence (and a guitarist who can play something other than bar chords). That'd be some killer material!

    Originally Posted By: Psycho Man
    Quote: Definitely not something that Black Sabbath should have done.
    for fucks sake it is four lines of Ice-T (a very good musiciana dn rapper) it is not rap though.
    I didn't say it was rap. I used an example of a band that /does/ mix rap with metal, but I did not say that Illusion of Power did that. What I said was that it was a dabble in cross breeding music genres. To start with Ice-T talks on the album, which is a shift from actually singing, which is a hallmark of Sabbath's sound Rappers just 'talk', too, most of the time, so I can probably say it /is/ rap, but for sanity's sake I won't do that now. Also, the whole album was mixed by a BC member, which probably accounts for the strange sound to the album that few of us really like.

    So is it mixing metal with rap? Probably, though I didn't claim that. I say that it's mixing different music styles. Sometimes that works, such as mixing blues influence into metal, but other times it doesn't work as well, such as on Forbidden. I still like the album, but there were some choices made in its production that are really not cool.

  21. #101

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    Default Re: Forbidden, was it THAT bad???

    @Rich, this is by far the best analysis on Forbidden I´ve ever read. Especially the part on "meaning". I feel exactly the same. Forbidden is not bad, but it´s Sabbath´s weakest work in my opinion.

  22. #102
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    Default Re: Forbidden, was it THAT bad???

    Originally Posted By: Maethor Forbidden is not bad, but it´s Sabbath´s weakest work in my opinion.
    I simply love this album! It isn't as good as Cross Purposes though which is my favorite Martin Album.
    When will you show me a sign
    When will you throw me a line

  23. #103
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    Default Re: Forbidden, was it THAT bad???

    Originally Posted By: paulmelv This aint a bad album and gets played more than the likes of Technical Ecstasy by my good self though the general feeling of it is rushed and a missed oppurtunity especially after the brilliant Cross Purposes.
    You nailed it exactly. A decent album that has it's moments, but I was looking for so much more after "Cross Purposes."
    "I can honestly say it’s truly been an honor to play at his side for all these years, his music will live on forever." ~ Tony Iommi (Speaking of Ronnie James Dio)

  24. #104

    Default Re: Forbidden, was it THAT bad???

    I dont own it but my friend has played it for me several times. From what i remember hearing it really isnt that bad.
    So live for today
    Tomorrow never comes

  25. #105
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    Default Re: Forbidden, was it THAT bad???

    Originally Posted By: BloodshtBass I dont own it but my friend has played it for me several times. From what i remember hearing it really isnt that bad.
    Although one of their weaker moments it is a good album that's worth having. "Forbidden" is certainly better than NSD or TE.

  26. #106

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    Default Re: Forbidden, was it THAT bad???

    Yes, yes it was.
    It sold bad.
    Sounded bad and had no direction.
    Would have been better to have had Glenn on vocals and a solo cd.

  27. #107

    Default Re: Forbidden, was it THAT bad???

    Originally Posted By: KeepItWarm
    Although one of their weaker moments it is a good album that's worth having. "Forbidden" is certainly better than NSD or TE.
    Very true.

  28. #108
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    Default Re: Forbidden, was it THAT bad???

    Not true,
    NSD and TE are not bad!

  29. #109

    Default Re: Forbidden, was it THAT bad???

    Originally Posted By: Cooper Yes, yes it was.
    It sold bad.
    Sounded bad and had no direction.
    Would have been better to have had Glenn on vocals and a solo cd.
    Had no direction? It did indeed have direction, maybe not that direction you liked however.

    It was a definite more gritty and raw album.

  30. #110

    Default Re: Forbidden, was it THAT bad???

    The Illusion Of Power is my favourite song on the album, doomy and evil. The Ice T part fits perfectly in the song, and I'm the bigges rap hater in the world...But this is not rap at all.

  31. #111

    Default Re: Forbidden, was it THAT bad???

    "Forbidden" was the first Black Sabbath studio album I ever owned. I bought it for full price on cassette back in 1996 from a large music store. I knew a little bit about the band and had one of the original greatest hits albums from the Ozzy era. However, I wasn't too familiar with the later day lineups. As a result, I had no idea who was singing for Black Sabbath back when it came out, in 1995, I just knew it wasn't Ozzy.

    Why did I buy it? I tended to buy a lot of metal albums back then based on the cover art. That and I happened to be very curious about Black Sabbath. It wasn't the first time I saw that copy of "Forbidden." I'd been to the same music store a few months before and saw it then. I thought about getting it at the time but passed. When I got the chance to go back a second time, I made sure I picked it up that time.

    For its faults, "Forbidden" did prompt me to pick up some of Sabbath's back catalog, primarily the Tony Martin releases and "Seventh Star." So I ended up becoming at least a casual Black Sabbath fan on account of that album. The first time I listened to it was in the car of my best friend from high school. He had a tape deck and we tossed it on five minutes after I came out of the music store with the tape in a bag. We got through three songs and it was different than I expected, particularly "The Illusion of Power" but it was still very good.

    Not to single out Ozzy, but I could almost picture him recording a song like "The Illusion of Power", using a rap metal guy (or even a regular metal guy) in the same role that Ice T played, and then putting it on one of his solo albums or a movie soundtrack.

    I enjoy "Forbidden" quite a bit and have since gotten it on cd. The production isn't great, which everyone else has already stated. Still, I have enough metal albums in my collection that are no better produced than "Forbidden." I've heard a lot worse from bands that have had success. For example, anyone who has ever heard of the US band L.A. Guns may recall an album of theirs from 1999 called "Shrinking Violet" which came out on a small label. Ex-Guns N' Roses guitarist Gilby Clarke produced that one and anyone who has heard it will vouch that it has far worse production than "Forbidden."

  32. #112

    Default Re: Forbidden, was it THAT bad???

    Just got my copy a few days ago.

    It's not as bad as everyone says it is...

    It's Worse!!!

  33. #113

    Default Re: Forbidden, was it THAT bad???

    Wow, this really is an endless forum...

    Umm, a few things... Forbidden really and truely is musicially genious. When it comes to Sabbath, like many other bands who've had a lot of staying power, like Kiss, Fleetwood Mac, Judas Priest, etc., you just have to look at each album as a completely new work of art, and not base it off the previous work.

    When was the last time you heard someone comparing the Mona Lisa to the Last Supper? That's right, you've probably NEVER heard anyone do that, even though they're by the same artist... Why? Because both are utterly genious in and of themselves and in their own right.

    That being said, why are people bashing Forbidden? It is an absolutely fantastic album! If you want to compare it to anything, then it most closely compares to Reunion. Forbidden defined Tony Iommi's guitar sound and playing style from that point forward, as has been heard on all his solo albums and all the Black Sabbath live shows since, and I've heard no complaints about any of those things!

    Perhaps it was mearly ahead of it's time? The guitars are 110%... the drums are at f*cking 300%!!!... Finally, they keyboards and ambient noise are not over-powering... The bass is heavy... and the vocals are probably some of Tony Martin's very best in his career! He finally let down his massive hair-do in favour of a more metal one, and sang the songs with more soul and feeling, as opposed to his more 80's hair-band type style of his previous efforts!

    All things being said, I feel it was a fantastic album... One that perhaps just didn't have a place in 1995. Really, it's not much different at all than Tony's solo work since, and Sabbath fans seem to laud those albums... And, honestly, it's better than those albums! Perhaps it was just because it was called Black Sabbath...

    Long story short, I encourage anyone and everyone to listen to this album... If you've done it before, then do it again, and think of it this way... The title of the album is still Forbidden, but it's by a band called THE BOYS IN THE SHED, and we'll just pretend that all the musicians on it are completely unknonwn... and we're gonna have a flashback to 1995, when all the grunge, pop, and rap culture needed a swift kick to the balls... and we're all going to fall madly in love with this record!!!

  34. #114
    Petoria000's Avatar
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    Default Re: Forbidden, was it THAT bad???

    Well said!!

  35. #115

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    Default Re: Forbidden, was it THAT bad???

    Get a grip rocks.

  36. #116
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    It’s not bad at all, I love this album, Martin’s finest.
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
    ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

  37. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crachette View Post
    Wow, this really is an endless forum...

    Umm, a few things... Forbidden really and truely is musicially genious. When it comes to Sabbath, like many other bands who've had a lot of staying power, like Kiss, Fleetwood Mac, Judas Priest, etc., you just have to look at each album as a completely new work of art, and not base it off the previous work.

    When was the last time you heard someone comparing the Mona Lisa to the Last Supper? That's right, you've probably NEVER heard anyone do that, even though they're by the same artist... Why? Because both are utterly genious in and of themselves and in their own right.

    That being said, why are people bashing Forbidden? It is an absolutely fantastic album! If you want to compare it to anything, then it most closely compares to Reunion. Forbidden defined Tony Iommi's guitar sound and playing style from that point forward, as has been heard on all his solo albums and all the Black Sabbath live shows since, and I've heard no complaints about any of those things!

    Perhaps it was mearly ahead of it's time? The guitars are 110%... the drums are at f*cking 300%!!!... Finally, they keyboards and ambient noise are not over-powering... The bass is heavy... and the vocals are probably some of Tony Martin's very best in his career! He finally let down his massive hair-do in favour of a more metal one, and sang the songs with more soul and feeling, as opposed to his more 80's hair-band type style of his previous efforts!

    All things being said, I feel it was a fantastic album... One that perhaps just didn't have a place in 1995. Really, it's not much different at all than Tony's solo work since, and Sabbath fans seem to laud those albums... And, honestly, it's better than those albums! Perhaps it was just because it was called Black Sabbath...

    Long story short, I encourage anyone and everyone to listen to this album... If you've done it before, then do it again, and think of it this way... The title of the album is still Forbidden, but it's by a band called THE BOYS IN THE SHED, and we'll just pretend that all the musicians on it are completely unknonwn... and we're gonna have a flashback to 1995, when all the grunge, pop, and rap culture needed a swift kick to the balls... and we're all going to fall madly in love with this record!!!
    This right here. ^^^^
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
    ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

  38. #118

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    It is not a bad album. Okay, it doesn't belong in the Top Sabbath albums list but it is not a bad either. Sure, it could be better (a more punchy and edgy production would give a different perspective to this work and this is the reason i wait its BLOODY REMIX!!, Martin's performance could be better) but it is not bad even with those "cons". I think it is the same occasion as the NSD album. The band's line up at both of the periods those two albums were produced, was in trouble in terms of relationship between the band's members. This, resulted to albums with a different music style comparing to other works. As a friend said in this topic, you have to see every work as a standalone and you don't have to compare it with other work because as you know it, Black Sabbath, are having a different music style from work to work so it is unfair to compare an album with a previous one because, its difficult to produce the same album Again and again (Neon Knights comes to mind ).

    I like the Forbidden album because, the music style is evolved to a more modern appeal and the songs are great (the guitar solo at "Sick and tired" is AWESOME).

    As i said in other topics, it is difficult to find a really bad Sabbath album because every album is having its moments. I think it is interesting to hear the band we like to try a different music style in order to avoid tiring their selves and the fans...
    Last edited by tsimisde; 06-26-2018 at 04:09 AM.

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  40. #119

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    The production is not good. Nine out of ten songs (Illusion Of Power, I'm looking at you) are good to great. I've always enjoyed the album and will continue to for years, especially if a remix comes to pass. Cozy's drums need some serious attention.

    Shaking Off The Chains could have been on Volume 4 and I Won't Cry For You might have been a radio hit if it were released as a single. I'm also very partial to Can't Get Close Enough, Rusty Angels and the mighty Kiss Of Death.

    I wonder if people have been conditioned, or at least encouraged, to dislike the album because both the Tonys have said they're not fond of it? There's a lot of monkey-see-monkey-do in fandoms and it's often easier to follow the party line than to judge something for ourselves.

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  42. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by tsimisde View Post
    It is not a bad album. Okay, it doesn't belong in the Top Sabbath albums list but it is not a bad either. Sure, it could be better (a more punchy and edgy production would give a different perspective to this work and this is the reason i wait its BLOODY REMIX!!, Martin's performance could be better) but it is not bad even with those "cons". I think it is the same occasion as the NSD album. The band's line up at both of the periods those two albums were produced, was in trouble in terms of relationship between the band's members. This, resulted to albums with a different music style comparing to other works. As a friend said in this topic, you have to see every work as a standalone and you don't have to compare it with other work because as you know it, Black Sabbath, are having a different music style from work to work so it is unfair to compare an album with a previous one because, its difficult to produce the same album Again and again (Neon Knights comes to mind ).

    I like the Forbidden album because, the music style is evolved to a more modern appeal and the songs are great (the guitar solo at "Sick and tired" is AWESOME).

    As i said in other topics, it is difficult to find a really bad Sabbath album because every album is having its moments. I think it is interesting to heat the band we like to try a different music style in order to avoid tiring their selves and the fans...
    Quote Originally Posted by sabbathstone View Post
    The production is not good. Nine out of ten songs (Illusion Of Power, I'm looking at you) are good to great. I've always enjoyed the album and will continue to for years, especially if a remix comes to pass. Cozy's drums need some serious attention.

    Shaking Off The Chains could have been on Volume 4 and I Won't Cry For You might have been a radio hit if it were released as a single. I'm also very partial to Can't Get Close Enough, Rusty Angels and the mighty Kiss Of Death.

    I wonder if people have been conditioned, or at least encouraged, to dislike the album because both the Tonys have said they're not fond of it? There's a lot of monkey-see-monkey-do in fandoms and it's often easier to follow the party line than to judge something for ourselves.
    Both great posts .
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
    ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

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