The State of the Boards

[Joe Siegler]

Recently I've gotten some PM's and emails from people saying that the boards have gone to shit lately. While I don't really agree with that as a whole, there are some issues here that need addressing.

There are some troublemakers. As I type this email at the moment, I don't have time to deal with all the issues at the moment, but in the next 24 hrs or so I will make the time and sort through the crap.

I started this board to NOT allow it to become like all the other metal/music boards out there - a fucking wasteland of bullshit. Some of that has invaded here. I will no longer tolerate it.

If you were doing something, you may find yourself banned or deleted. It might seem harsh, but there's been too much crap here lately. Especially this "Crips & Bloods" bullshit. There is no place for that garbage here. It stops now.

Or I will stop you. Pick one.

[Joe Siegler]

Furthermore, you should respect my staff as if they are me. Don't pick on and abuse my staff because they're not "Joe Siegler". It is not fair to them at all. Abuse of staff will be handled the same way as if you told me to fuck off. Don't forget that.

[NoWayOut]

First off Joe there are no crips and Bloods here,its simply Someone who loves Tony Martin NOT EVEN against the droogies we are still united you dont see us going kill them and shit,and were all just having fucking fun man,i fucking hate when people shit on my parade.

[nunoni]

hmmm... I've seen no wars here lately. A lot ob bull yes (for instance half my posts), but no blatant disrespect or conflicts amongst members. Maybe I haven't looked deep enough. I've seen an absent ForumMaster, for stated reasons of family and other things to do, which quite obviously take precedence; same has happened with the masters of sabbathlive, and dio.net - some sort of burn-out, after many years of round the clock work. These people have done more than their fair share I'd say. In this absence, the members mostly behaved rather well, I think. But I am a recent member, and I look more at the Dio-related stuff than the other sub-boards, so my opinion is not quite objective.

All in all, it seems to me the #1 "problem" in the last months is that there has been little Sabb activity in the last months. We're all waiting for news on the new record, and whether there are going to be Summer festival concerts or not (likely not).

To sum it up: I am a Blood, but as most fellow Bloods, a rather peaceful one! Peace, cousin Crisp.

[Joe Siegler]

Originally Posted By: nunoni hmmm... I've seen no wars here lately. A lot ob bull yes (for instance half my posts), but no blatant disrespect or conflicts amongst members.

That's because it's been removed. But it shouldn't be posted in the first place. THAT is my point.

[JEFFMETAL]

If I would complain about anything here is the lack of freedom of some thoughts here. I felt offended by things done onto me by the staff here. It was all through PM, by the way. I think there's more complain to be made against some rules of this board than what happens here ordinarily.

The rest of the things that goes on here are perfectly normal. Arguments, discussions, agreement, disagreements is what keeps this place running. These people who are complaining are wanting what, a fucking VIP area? This is Rock 'N' Roll, man.

[8bit Fighter]

I don't really have much to say really. Within the block of 3,4, or 5 days this all happend in a flash. You mods do what you need to do, I won't stop you, never will.

[MarcStitz]

Ray shall be missed!!! The last year was the most aweful time of this forum has ever seen!!! During that year I remember having fun, joking around, and having a good time with the forum; but all I got was slander, desrespected, and being put down...just like Ray. Just seeing what Ray just remember what I went through. And I know I said some really bad stuff to people and I wanted to say Im really really sorry for it. But I find myself leaving the forum a little bit and coming back around Christmas time because the forum was turning into "you have to love Tony Martin/Dio and hate Ozzy" forum. I know some members naming "nameless" will not come back because of this. I had high hopes that the forum would change back, like it did when I first joined. Hell the reason I join so I can get info and into the Tony Martin era. And yes I do love Tony Martin; I even put a TM Song for my graduation cermony, but I don't think he is the most perfect, most talented singer ever as some people do. I think it was my fault that cause the "TM Cheerleader" when I posted in a thread about my veiw on "his flaws." I remember getting bad rep, and disrespected for that. I notice everytime I post in this forum I get ignore by alot of people. Except for 8bit, Buttock, Ray, and RLP. Thats why I carried the RD in my sig, not for a sign of hate, but probably the only people to talk to.

So now Joe is back I just hope things go back to normal.

[Rover]

Damn, this place is just rioting. It was so peaceful and fun to chat (the forum I stayed the longest of all and amassed more posts than on all other boards I ever visited, combines) and now it turned into a vision of hell. I mean, all that bitching and people taking sides... Guess I missed out the point of it all totally. Just weird, almost as though the havoc of the real world has crept into this forum.

Hope we all have the patience to resolve it all. More power to the Moderators and our gracious host Joe Siegler, one of a kind. I hope to see this place better than ever very very soon.

[Sir Kenneth]

There are no bloods and cribs here, that is true, but I would agree that there have been some attitude problems and general lack of tact. Some people seem to post in certain threads just to get a reaction out of others, without really having anything constructive to add to the topic at hand. I'm not saying that people should stay out of the thread if hey have a different opinion from that expressed by the one who started the thread. I'm just saying that perhaps people don't have to post that it is time for Ozzy to retire in all the Ozzy threads, and perhaps people don't have to post that the Tony Martin era stuff is crap in all the TM threads.

With just a little bit of maturity and respect, this forum could go a long way.

[Psycho Man]

Originally Posted By: Joe Siegler

Originally Posted By: nunoni hmmm... I've seen no wars here lately. A lot ob bull yes (for instance half my posts), but no blatant disrespect or conflicts amongst members.

That's because it's been removed. But it shouldn't be posted in the first place. THAT is my point.

Makes sense to me. Obey the practical and fair rules of the board and enjoy the discussions. As with some other people I haven't seen broken rules but IMO in the case of some of our users who have spent a few years, in some cases, not causing problem and contributing positively banning them is a bit of an over-reaction.

Furthermore if someone's thread has been removed and it either doesn't break forum rules or the user doesn't understand how it breaks the rules they need to discuss the situation with the Mod/Admin who removed the thread.

As with most conflicts I believe this one could have been resolved with polite and respectful discussions.

[Damian]

Originally Posted By: Sir Kenneth There are no bloods and cribs here, that is true, but I would agree that there have been some attitude problems and general lack of tact. Some people seem to post in certain threads just to get a reaction out of others, without really having anything constructive to add to the topic at hand. I'm not saying that people should stay out of the thread if hey have a different opinion from that expressed by the one who started the thread. I'm just saying that perhaps people don't have to post that it is time for Ozzy to retire in all the Ozzy threads, and perhaps people don't have to post that the Tony Martin era stuff is crap in all the TM threads.

With just a little bit of maturity and respect, this forum could go a long way.

Exactly. If this was followed to begin with, this problem would probably not have grown so large.

[The Butt]

Originally Posted By: MarcStitz I remember getting bad rep, and disrespected for that. I notice everytime I post in this forum I get ignore by alot of people. Except for 8bit, Buttock, Ray, and RLP. Thats why I carried the RD in my sig, not for a sign of hate, but probably the only people to talk to.

I actually disagree that this whole "group" situation was causing the quality of the boards to deteriorate on any level. Humans, by nature, want be be part of a group, want to be part of a tight-knit community with others they can relate with. There's nothing wrong with that.

I agree, that people should hold their tongue on some things, and not mindlessly bash Ozzy/TM/Dio/anything if at all possible. But to force us to leave our "groups" behind, because of some bitching, is just ludicrous, I feel.

The whole "RD vs TM Spartans" thing was NOT a sign of hate, as Marc so eloquently put it, but merely us joking around. We've had scuffles in the past, but we've gotten past that, and now we're all actually pretty close friends. Hell, I even have Ray Rules and NWO on my MSN list...

But I will grudgingly remove the affiliation from my sig, so as not to cause any ruckus, or extra work for the mods. Hopefully this whole thing will just blow over.

[Echoes]

Well, I haven't visited the forums as regularly as I used to, and even until now I'd just check as an anonynous user sporadically. However, I have noticed a couple of times when comments led to heated arguments between members. I can't remember any isolated incidents in the last year, but it does seem that a few posts did spark some heated reactions (this is kinda what Sir Kenneth was talking about earlier in the thread). Granted sometimes these arguments do have valid points, but it's more in the delivery and possible tone that causes this ruckus.

Not sure if this helps, but that's my own little observation.

[BloodshtBass]

Originally Posted By: Damian

Originally Posted By: Sir Kenneth There are no bloods and cribs here, that is true, but I would agree that there have been some attitude problems and general lack of tact. Some people seem to post in certain threads just to get a reaction out of others, without really having anything constructive to add to the topic at hand. I'm not saying that people should stay out of the thread if hey have a different opinion from that expressed by the one who started the thread. I'm just saying that perhaps people don't have to post that it is time for Ozzy to retire in all the Ozzy threads, and perhaps people don't have to post that the Tony Martin era stuff is crap in all the TM threads.

With just a little bit of maturity and respect, this forum could go a long way.

Exactly. If this was followed to begin with, this problem would probably not have grown so large.

I agree as well.

I also believe that Joe brought up a good point with not wanting this board to be like other metal boards. Other metal boards are not nearly as welcoming as this one. I consider you guys friends which is something I would not normally do on any kind of board.

[matt88]

I cant stand any other metal forum. the people on this board seem more open minded. thats probably the reason this is the only forum i frequent.

[Eternal Idol]

Originally Posted By: Buttock1234

Originally Posted By: MarcStitz I remember getting bad rep, and disrespected for that. I notice everytime I post in this forum I get ignore by alot of people. Except for 8bit, Buttock, Ray, and RLP. Thats why I carried the RD in my sig, not for a sign of hate, but probably the only people to talk to.

I actually disagree that this whole "group" situation was causing the quality of the boards to deteriorate on any level. Humans, by nature, want be be part of a group, want to be part of a tight-knit community with others they can relate with. There's nothing wrong with that.

I agree, that people should hold their tongue on some things, and not mindlessly bash Ozzy/TM/Dio/anything if at all possible. But to force us to leave our "groups" behind, because of some bitching, is just ludicrous, I feel.

The whole "RD vs TM Spartans" thing was NOT a sign of hate, as Marc so eloquently put it, but merely us joking around. We've had scuffles in the past, but we've gotten past that, and now we're all actually pretty close friends. Hell, I even have Ray Rules and NWO on my MSN list...

But I will grudgingly remove the affiliation from my sig, so as not to cause any ruckus, or extra work for the mods. Hopefully this whole thing will just blow over.

Couldnt have said anything better !

[Echoes]

Originally Posted By: matt88 I cant stand any other metal forum. the people on this board seem more open minded. thats probably the reason this is the only forum i frequent.

That's what also made me drawn to this forum (besides being a Sabbath fan of course ). It was a feeling that people could mention any artists they like, metal or non-metal, in an open environment. And even if the resulting discussion involved some sort of critiquing of the music, it was also an articulate debate which would never lead to bashing a member for liking that style....for the most part.

Although this does actually remind me of one incident that kind of ticked me off. I was mentioning picking up an Elton John album in a thread on recent purchases (it was Goodbye Yellow Brick Road to be precise), and one reaction I got was "how can people listen to this pop shit". Not being a fan is one thing I can understand, but to degrade one of us for our tastes is another story. I came here to share some music I love; I don't mind level-headed debates as long as nobody forces me to defend my tastes in that manner.

So I suppose my suggestion is if we mention any artists that a member is not fond of, to choose words carefully when critiquing so you won't offend people who are fans. The wording, phrasing and tone makes all the difference.

[Joe Siegler]

Originally Posted By: JEFFMETAL If I would complain about anything here is the lack of freedom of some thoughts here. I felt offended by things done onto me by the staff here.

At the risk of sounding like an ass, tough shit. If you do something that breaks a rule, you're going to have something said to you. It's as simple as that. As I said above, consider the mods an extension of myself. If you have a problem with them, then you have a problem with me. Generally people only have problems with forum staff when said staff has to lay down a law - if you behave, then everything's fine.

General statement:

The rules are what they are to prevent legal problems and asshats dominating the boards. If you want to act stupid, there's plenty of places that don't give a shit, and will allow you to be as dumb as you want to be.

As I said when I launched this place, I've been doing online communications now since 1985. I have a handle on what causes problems, and especially in music communities. My rules stand. If you don't like the rules laid out here, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

Originally Posted By: MarcStitz Ray shall be missed!!!

Ray is not going anywhere.

Quote: The last year was the most aweful time of this forum has ever seen!!! During that year I remember having fun, joking around, and having a good time with the forum; but all I got was slander, desrespected, and being put down

Cry me a river. Anyone who gets mildly insulted these days claims "disrespect". Bullshit. People can disagree with you, even insult you. I detest seeing "disrespect" online, because lots of people throw it around as some "badge" that nobody can soil. Get the tiniest amount of dirt on said badge, and people act like their mother has been raped or something. Yeesh.

Quote: So now Joe is back I just hope things go back to normal.

That's up to you guys.

Originally Posted By: Rover Damn, this place is just rioting.

That's a bit extremist. Hardly.

Quote: It was so peaceful and fun to chat (the forum I stayed the longest of all and amassed more posts than on all other boards I ever visited, combines) and now it turned into a vision of hell.

Again, if you want to discuss things, discuss them, don't fill your posts with silliness like "rioting" and "a vision of hell". It invalidates most everything else you say, because it just sounds so silly.

Quote: I mean, all that bitching and people taking sides... Guess I missed out the point of it all totally. Just weird, almost as though the havoc of the real world has crept into this forum.

"taking sides"? It's called opinions. Unless personal insults are involved, you have to have a thicker skin. And even then you should have a thick enough skin to take a few shots.

Quote: Hope we all have the patience to resolve it all. More power to the Moderators and our gracious host Joe Siegler, one of a kind. I hope to see this place better than ever very very soon.

Again, that's up to you guys.

Originally Posted By: Sir Kenneth There are no bloods and cribs here, that is true, but I would agree that there have been some attitude problems and general lack of tact. Some people seem to post in certain threads just to get a reaction out of others, without really having anything constructive to add to the topic at hand.

The "Bloods vs Crips" remark was mine. The point I was trying to make was about cliques, not actual "gang wars" as such. Cliques are SERIOUSLY dangerous to online forums, because the folks in said clique generally conclude that nobody else is worthy whose opinion does not match theirs, and they end up being attacked by the clique.

<span style="color: #FF0000">Then for the love of God, stop reacting! That's why they're doing it! You're not helping by reacting to these things. If it really bothers you, then use the report a post, and move on.</span> It's what I mean about "disrespect". People get all pissy over other's opinions. Ignore it. Move on.

Quote: I'm just saying that perhaps people don't have to post that it is time for Ozzy to retire in all the Ozzy threads, and perhaps people don't have to post that the Tony Martin era stuff is crap in all the TM threads.

Report it. Let staff deal with it.

Quote: With just a little bit of maturity and respect, this forum could go a long way.

Yet again, that's up to you guys.

[thehodge]

Originally Posted By: Joe Siegler

At the risk of sounding like an ass, tough shit. If you do something that breaks a rule, you're going to have something said to you. It's as simple as that. As I said above, consider the mods an extension of myself. If you have a problem with them, then you have a problem with me. Generally people only have problems with forum staff when said staff has to lay down a law - if you behave, then everything's fine.

General statement:

The rules are what they are to prevent legal problems and asshats dominating the boards. If you want to act stupid, there's plenty of places that don't give a shit, and will allow you to be as dumb as you want to be.

As I said when I launched this place, I've been doing online communications now since 1985. I have a handle on what causes problems, and especially in music communities. My rules stand. If you don't like the rules laid out here, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

overall if we dont like your rules mate, then weve got the option to leave, if you can obide by it, then we decide to stay, its called self control, a few times ive thought about posting a comment or topic that ventures into the no-go area and thought nope better not, not only is it a waste of my time posting something and geting it deleted, its a was of moderators time finding and deleting it, again i say "you dont like the rules, then go"

[The Butt]

Originally Posted By: Joe Siegler Cliques are SERIOUSLY dangerous to online forums, because the folks in said clique generally conclude that nobody else is worthy whose opinion does not match theirs, and they end up being attacked by the clique.

Forgive me if I'm overstepping a line, but I feel that (at least for this board), this is not true at all. The fact that I am a Droogie, does not affect my perception of others opinions at all; and I feel that this is true for the rest of the Droogies (and the Spartans) as well.

I pride myself in the fact that I never, ever try to make my opinion out to be above, or more valid than anyone elses, and the fact that I'm in a group does not change that. If you read some of my past posts, you will see that I in fact preach the opposite; that music is subjective, everyone has their own opinion, and none of them are inherently right or wrong.

The only reason that these are now suddenly disallowed is due to one member's (not naming names) skewed view of these groups; that you have to be "in a group" to be cool. Again, I do not view other members as inferior due to the fact that they're not in one of these groups. So I don't see anything wrong here.

I know that my points are probably not going to change this new ruling, and I mean no disrespect, Joe, but I'm merely stating my opinion here, and calling things as I see them.

[racer]

Maybe I'm wrong, but saying "Joe's back, maybe things will return to normal" ... it shouldn't take Joe coming back to do that. In fact, that comment would concern me if I were Joe. Joe has a life and he didn't set this board up to babysit it all the time. His website was and is doing fine without a forum.

If we behave whether Joe's here or not, we'll still have the forum to enjoy.

[Joe Siegler]

Originally Posted By: Buttock1234

Originally Posted By: Joe Siegler Cliques are SERIOUSLY dangerous to online forums, because the folks in said clique generally conclude that nobody else is worthy whose opinion does not match theirs, and they end up being attacked by the clique.

Forgive me if I'm overstepping a line, but I feel that (at least for this board), this is not true at all. The fact that I am a Droogie, does not affect my perception of others opinions at all; and I feel that this is true for the rest of the Droogies (and the Spartans) as well.

I pride myself in the fact that I never, ever try to make my opinion out to be above, or more valid than anyone elses, and the fact that I'm in a group does not change that. If you read some of my past posts, you will see that I in fact preach the opposite; that music is subjective, everyone has their own opinion, and none of them are inherently right or wrong.

The only reason that these are now suddenly disallowed is due to one member's (not naming names) skewed view of these groups; that you have to be "in a group" to be cool. Again, I do not view other members as inferior due to the fact that they're not in one of these groups. So I don't see anything wrong here.

I know that my points are probably not going to change this new ruling, and I mean no disrespect, Joe, but I'm merely stating my opinion here, and calling things as I see them.

That's fair, but do me the same curtosey (sp?). If you truly believe in what you say about your own opinion, then the concept of "clique" is unnecessary to you.

[TheElfoid]

I'll be honest, I've never run into trouble on here. Ever. And I am the most controversial person sometimes. I pick arguments with VERY strong opinions and run people down for them. It can cause trouble despite the fact that generally, I have the best intentions and love everyone on here to bits. It's just how I always am, I'm a total misfit and I'm socially inept.

And I haven't got in trouble for anything.

Know what that means? If Joe & co are smart enough to have picked up on the fact that I'm an ok guy really and they're still finding troublemakers....those guys really ARE causing shit. And it also shows the administration are fairly thoughtful, so everything's being done carefully.

I didn't notice this latest batch of trouble, but I've seen instances where I hoped something was done. Generally not involving me, so I kept my distance so people could report their problems themselves. I'm somewhat glad it has happened.

And if anyone cares, someone just came on MSN and linked me to a 'new' Black Sabbath forum. It's got 3 users, 0 posts, it's on a slow slow slow free server with a hideous skin and no rich history like this place has. I also doubt the people involved have much experience with forum administration. It's a petty response, but thought I'd throw it up in the air for y'all. Cuz at least it means the trouble's getting out of here.

[Psycho Man]

Quote: the concept of "clique" is unnecessary to you.

unnecessary yes but they are fun too, its a way to enrich the friendships we build here

[The Butt]

Originally Posted By: Joe Siegler That's fair, but do me the same curtosey (sp?). If you truly believe in what you say about your own opinion, then the concept of "clique" is unnecessary to you.

I did not mean you any discourtesy, and I apologize if it seemed that way. I also didn't say your argument didn't have merit, I'm just saying, I disagree.

As Psycho Man says, yes, cliques are unnecessary. I don't deny that. But they're fun, and they're a way to enrich the friendships with other members of the board, which is always a good thing.

I think cliques are only really a problem, when the people in them are intolerant. I do not feel that this is the case on this board. Sure, me and some other members have had problems with it before, but as I said, we've moved past that, and even become friends.

[Ray Rules]

I had a huge fight with my internet provider company. Almost cryed due the angry I felt. This is the first place I came after turning the telephone off.. That made me feel how important this board is to me.. I'm not leaving, I don't know what I would do without this place to chill. Sorry Joe and staff if I ever did something wrong with you guys, never meant to do that. Sorry Danzig, for trolling over you a few days ago, I just lost it when I saw you arguing with my friend, I entended to hurt you but I'm sorry about that.

Joe, if you need any help on taking care of the board, you know you can count on me, as always.

Everybody, have a good night.
Love you all

[8bit Fighter]

If it helps, from time to time if I find a guy that I don't agree with, I have the ignore list to use as well. Thanks Ray, but it was not needed for you to defend me. Time goes by, I just find it easier with a click of a button to ignore posts that I don't want to see. If anything though, I just wish we could all forget about this and move on, but it's not easy.

[Psycho Man]

NO!!!! You need to discuss it, discuss why you feel that is. That is intelligent conversation. Joe has given as a great place to do that. Conveniently and well organized.

I would hope that this be a huge fanbase to this kick-ass band Black Sabbath. Cause why would you come here if not to know more about the band. Build up the fanbase.

[devilmaycare]

Originally Posted By: Buttock1234
The only reason that these are now suddenly disallowed is due to one member's (not naming names) skewed view of these groups; that you have to be "in a group" to be cool. Again, I do not view other members as inferior due to the fact that they're not in one of these groups. So I don't see anything wrong here.

I take it you mean me, but I have no power here... The reason they are disallowed is because Joe saw fit to disallow them.

Anyway, as 8Bit said... Time to move on.

[TheElfoid]

Cliques can be nice, but it forgets something...the heavy metal community is a family. We ARE a clique. We're better as one big collective than anything else. It's the reason heavy metal's lasted so damn long and I see no reason for us to mess with the formula.

[Joe Siegler]

You know if people disagree with me, that's fine. If you don't like me, that's fine. But to go and create a new board, and then post stuff like this:

Quote: WELCOME! To Freedom! Fuck Joe,that board is full of shit

Is rather uncool. As I've stated, the reasons the board is the way it is is to prevent problems. People claim oppression or disrespect the moment anyone says anything negative. You're welcome to try to do your own thing, but that's happened before, and we've seen how well it's worked out.

You might find that being a board admin is a lot harder than you might realize. I Appreciate the attempt to fracture the community. Too bad you can't grasp the larger picture, and want to just focus on your own petty dislikes of structure and organization. Oh well. Your loss.

Good luck, and thanks for stabbing me in the back on the way out the door, and stealing my board's organizational layout too. It can't be that bad if you stole my structure, eh?

What I will NOT tolerate is the active attempt of others to say "Fuck Joe's board, come over to here" ON THIS BOARD. If you want to promote your board all over the place, that's fine. But not here. This is the equivalent of coming into Pizza Hut, and saying "Fuck them, go to Dominos!" I mean, do you think that kind of bullshit would be put up with? Fuck no. Don't try it here again. You wouldn't like me if I'm really pissed off. I guarantee it.

[8bit Fighter]

*blink* That's a bit going to far...I'm talking about the new board.

[Joe Siegler]

BTW, I've merged the King Leonids (sp?) account back into Eternal Idol. Seems less confusing that way.

[8bit Fighter]

Noted. Oh, he knows his password right? Stupid question I know, but I suggested him before that he should contact you guys to change it for him.

[Joe Siegler]

I took care of that. If he wants in, he can.

[TheElfoid]

Having been in the Myth online community since January 2004 (a long time for an online community), I know a fair bit about these things. Myth's been alive since Summer 1997. And from 2002-2007 we have a split community...it was the most devastating thing that ever happened and around 2003 it almost killed things off.

[David86]

I only want to say thank you, Joe & Staff, for your efforts in keeping this place bullshit-free. Thanks a lot, and keep it up.

Cheers.

[VikingChrist]

Whoa...looks I missed something.

[The Butt]

Originally Posted By: TheElfoid Cliques can be nice, but it forgets something...the heavy metal community is a family. We ARE a clique. We're better as one big collective than anything else. It's the reason heavy metal's lasted so damn long and I see no reason for us to mess with the formula.

That's true, that we're all one big community. I like pretty much all of you guys; but as with every board I frequent <span style="color: #666666">(I frequent about 4 others, in addition to this one)</span>, the will always be a small group of members I feel the closest to. Be it because of shared interests, shared opinions, shared sense of humor, etc.

This is the case, with me and my fellow Droogies. And I'm sure it's the case with... NWO, for example, and his fellow Spartans. Hell, even I feel like close friends with a couple of the Spartans.

It's probably true for you as well. Think about all the members on this board, there will more than likely be 3 or 4 that you consider yourself the closest to.

What I don't get, I guess, is why we're being coerced into "disbanding" these tight-knit groups of ours, all of a sudden. We've done nothing wrong, we haven't tried to hurt anyone. I can see Joe's reasoning, as his argument is true on a lot of other forums, that these "cliques" can be harmful. But I don't feel that that is the case here.