Black Sabbath Vs. Ozzy Round 2 Mob Rules Vs. Diary of a Madman

[cwilder86]

Mob Rules Vs. Diary of a Madman

GO!

Mob Rules for Me

(I can pretty much predict this outcome I think once again. The whole forum Vs. RLP4Ever and the Butt, lol)

[WarningRules]

(I can pretty much predict this outcome I think once again. The whole forum Vs. RLP4Ever and the Butt, lol)

Not too sure about this one. Mob Rules is in the bottom half of the Dio catalog for me, however, I pretty much think whatever Ozzy put out after BoO was shit. Plus I'm not huge on BoO anyway.

[RLP4ever]

Mob Rules Vs. Diary of a Madman

GO!

Mob Rules for Me

(I can pretty much predict this outcome I think once again. The whole forum Vs. RLP4Ever and the Butt, lol)

Haha, no wonder I called your poll threads like this one, pre-determined, 'rigged' contests, when you already seem to predict and know the 'results' as soon as you post the polls. LOL

Seriously, cwilder, I'm no more predictable on this one than you and your pals are, as well. The "whole forum" vs RLP lol...Bring it on!

Ok, Diary for me, without a doubt---though this time the match-up is a bit closer than Blizzard vs H&H. That's because I consider MR to be definitely a few strides up in quality of sorts, from the extremely pedestrian H&H. Also, I regard Diary to be even (slightly) better than Blizzard. So, for me a Diary vs MR match-up, is a move up the leagues, by a level or two. Still Diary wins handily!

[RedZero]

Mob Rules Vs. Diary of a Madman

GO!

Mob Rules for Me

(I can pretty much predict this outcome I think once again. The whole forum Vs. RLP4Ever and the Butt, lol)

Good prediction. I concur. Mob Rules for me.

[The Butt]

(I can pretty much predict this outcome I think once again. The whole forum Vs. RLP4Ever and the Butt, lol)

As much as I disagree with the whole apparent "LOL SABBATH IS AUTOMATICALLY BETTER THAN OZZY" mentality that seems to go on here, I had to vote Mob Rules.

[devilmaycare]

Diary for me.

[nunoni]

what's that second album?

[RLP4ever]

what's that second album?

That 'second album' is obviously the better one! Has a longer name too. So, why not read the title and listen to it sometime?

[The Rules Mob]

This is basically a draw. It would depend entirely on what I felt like listening to at the time. Put a gun to my head I'd probaby give the nod to Diary.

[dehumanizer91]

Diary for me!

[mikesline]

You can't kill rock and roll !

[nunoni]

That 'second album' is obviously the better one! Has a longer name too. So, why not read the title and listen to it sometime?

well, maybe I should hear it again (I'm sure I listened to it sometime back in the 80s but I can't remember), but how?! I don't have it, I don't do ilegal downloads, and my friends who have it can't be bothered to locate it in the pile of CDs...

I always thought Ozzy solo is extremely sub-par Ozzy compared to the glorious early Sabb (up to and including SBS), with very few songs being worht while listening to; contrarily to Dio, who did his best work more or less equally divided by Rainbow, Sabbath and Dio.

Mob Rules does not border perfection; for that, ir would need Neon Knights for Turn up the night, and something else instead of Slipping away. But it is, for me, Sabbath's best album with Dio (notice I don't say "Sabbath's best album; I stopped comparing the different eras, they might as well be different bands).

[geekwrestler]

If you listen to fools...


Ozzy Rules?

[Ozzien82]

Mob Rules Vs. Diary of a Madman

(I can pretty much predict this outcome I think once again. The whole forum Vs. RLP4Ever and the Butt, lol)

Not necessarily true. I'm voting opposite of what I did in Round 1. IMO, the original Diary was an excellent followup to Blizzard, nothing weak on it at all. Mob Rules, however, and despite the presence of great tunes like "Falling Off the Edge of the World" and "Country Girl," was probably the weakest Dio-era Sabbath effort (yes IMO). It's Diary this time.

Please note that I am specifying the original versions of Blizzard and Diary because I truly do feel that the 2002 remasters lost something in translation.

[joan]

There is no contest in my opinion if you listed to fools THE MOB RULES-WINNER!

[Sabbathfan78]

The mob rules for me only because TSOTSC and FOTEOTW beat everything on Diary.

[BooSweeney]

Not necessarily true. I'm voting opposite of what I did in Round 1. IMO, the original Diary was an excellent followup to Blizzard, nothing weak on it at all. Mob Rules, however, and despite the presence of great tunes like "Falling Off the Edge of the World" and "Country Girl," was probably the weakest Dio-era Sabbath effort (yes IMO). It's Diary this time.

Please note that I am specifying the original versions of Blizzard and Diary because I truly do feel that the 2002 remasters lost something in translation.

Same here, I also voted for H&H on the first one, despite the admittance that I felt BoO was a more cohesive album, but here I had to vote for Diary. Again, Diary is much more consistent than Mob Rules (also IMO) and Mob Rules' epic tracks (notably The Sign of the Southern Cross and Falling Off the Edge of the World) aren't as good as the ones on H&H, which is why Diary gets the nod this time. Mob Rules is also the least favorite of my Dio-Sabbath albums, and while it's not bad, it should of really been better.

It should also go without saying that when I talk about Blizzard and Diary, I'm NOT referring to the 2002 remasters. I'm glad I had the foresight to purchase the 1995 versions before they "remastered" them again.

[KHH]

Gotta go with Heaven And Hells Mob Rules here...

[8bit Fighter]

I like Mob Rules, but Diary edges it out. Diary showed more maturing from BoO, and really showed what Randy could do.

[Saboteur]

Diary is Ozzy's darkest album and the one that aged the best. By far the most original of his whole catalogue.
But I went for Mob, 'cos that album is untouchable, just perfect!

[Ashley Dalby]

Mob Rules without even showing up to the battle

[gunman42782]

Diary of a Madman, hands down. Mob Rules is a great album, but Diary is one of Ozzy's best ever. I think the title song is one of the all time great hard rock songs.

[mythology]

Diary of a Madman easily. Mob Rules is shit.

[The Rules Mob]

Diary of a Madman easily. Mob Rules is shit.

Aren't you the same guy who complained about referring to the albums released when Ozzy was the singer in Black Sabbath as the "Ozzy fronted ouput?" And proudly proclaimed that you don't post on the Dio boards? http://www.black-sabbath.com/vb/showthread.php?t=31895, post #31.

Like the good folks at Fox News say, "Fair and balanced."

[thesithempire]

I think they're the best albums from the respective bands. Diary is Ozzy's solo masterpiece. Mob Rules is Heaven and Hell's (which is what I'm calling this lineup).

Nothing beats "Sign of the Southern Cross" and "Falling off the Edge of the World" for sheer epic power. If you close your eyes, you can hear dinosaurs roaming across the plains. "Over and Over's" a great, bluesy ballad. "Turn up the Night" I could do without. Not horrible, but it's needlessly noisy and drowns out a decent riff. Unfortunately, the band saw fit to put the grotesquely hideous "Slipping Away" on the album, which is just awful, worse than "Walk Away" from the prior album. It's this band's "The Crunge". As regards "The Mob Rules", the earlier, movie-version should've been used instead. Also "Country Girl", while a great song, could've used Butler on lyrics for something a bit less prosaic, but what a riff! Overall, the balance between Dio and the band was, IMO, perfectly achieved here, and I really think it's a shame a third album from this lineup didn't come at this time.

Diary of a Madman begins and ends with two of Ozzy's best songs: "Over the Mountain" and "Diary of a Madman", which IMO is his solo crowning achievement, plaintive, chilling, and powerful, an absolutely brilliant song that never stops giving. "Tonight" and "You Can't Kill Rock 'n' Roll" are both excellent ballads. "SATO" and "Little Dolls" are fun, although I've long ceased finding that to be true of "Flying High Again", though it has some great playing by Randy. The album's also benefited by great production, and there really isn't a single dud on the album.

[D-Generation X]

Had to go with Diary of a Mad Man. Randy's playing on this was just some of the best I have ever heard.
Not taking away nothing from Mob Rules as Dio sounds mean and angry as hell. But for me it's Diary by a just a hair

[H&H]

Diary - very good
Mob Rules - great

winner - Mob Rules

[mythology]

Aren't you the same guy who complained about referring to the albums released when Ozzy was the singer in Black Sabbath as the "Ozzy fronted ouput?" And proudly proclaimed that you don't post on the Dio boards? http://www.black-sabbath.com/vb/showthread.php?t=31895, post #31.

Like the good folks at Fox News say, "Fair and balanced."

And your point is ????

Just expressing my opinion. Like the many Dio-biased fand.

[WheelsOfConfusion]

I voted 'Mob Rules' too. I like 'Diary of a Madman' but it's just not in the same league. I also think 'Mob Rules' is a better album than the excellent 'Heaven and Hell'. Although H&H has a couple of iconic post Ozzy Sabbath tracks, namely the title track, I feel MR is still overall the stronger album.

[The Rules Mob]

And your point is ????

Just exposing extreme bias where I see it.

[mythology]

Or censoring opinion.....

[The Rules Mob]

Or censoring opinion.....

Not at all my friend. You're welcome to have any opinion you'd like, and I certainly have no power, or inclination, to "censor" you. But, for example, when George Stephanopoulos offers his opinion on politics, I think people should know he was once a liberal policy advisor to a liberal president. Same thing here. You don't like Dio. You voted for Diary. I did too, incidentally, and I love Dio's work with Sabbath.

[RLP4ever]

But, for example, when George Stephanopoulos offers his opinion on politics, I think people should know he was once a liberal policy advisor to a liberal president.

Well, what would you expect somebody like GS to do then, today----with an incumbent quasi-liberal president and administration? He certainly can't be expected to whip up the rogue, right-wing lunatic hysteria of somebody like Dick 'Darth Vader' Cheney, don't you think?

Like the good folks at Fox News say, "Fair and balanced

Something like this should actually be Jay Leno's opener on the Tonight Show, sometime.

But, even if mythology has those particular prejudices regarding the Sabbath eras, I don't see the controversy about the way he voted on this thread. He might genuinely feel Mob Rules is 'shitty' (and the Dio-era, too, perhaps, I don't know). Unlike politicians and cable news channels that can seemingly lie 24/7, cause public harm....and get away with it, we music fans are far more innocuous and innocent with our 'biases'.

[The Rules Mob]

But, even if mythology has those particular prejudices regarding the Sabbath eras, I don't see the controversy about the way he voted on this thread. He might genuinely feel Mob Rules is 'shitty' (and the Dio-era, too, perhaps, I don't know). Unlike politicians and cable news channels that can seemingly lie 24/7, cause public harm....and get away with it, we music fans are far more innocuous and innocent with our 'biases'.

I'm not sure I would agree with characterizing my point as controversy. As I said, mythology is welcome to his opinions, and equally welcome to voice them. But when someone says they don't consider anything other than the Ozzy era Black Sabbath, and proudly proclaims not to post to the Dio era boards, then I think that person's statement that Mob Rules is shit has to be placed in context. I read with interest the exchanges in another thread about the merits of various types of extreme metal. Personally, I don't subscribe to the view that music can fairly be charged with responsibility for any of it's listener's actions. And I'm not in favor of music being compelled to censor itself (by government or artist) so that it's acceptable to every imaginable type of listener. On the other hand, as I've said before, I find that type of music personally unlistenable. And if I were to weigh in on the subject of, say, Slayer's new album by simply saying it stinks (I've never heard it), I think it's only fair that I disclose that the chances of me saying it's great are nil.

Which brings me to my analogy. George is the host (not a panelist intended to obviously advocate a particular point of view) of a Sunday morning news program in the US. I think people should be aware of his background, and thus his biases, when they hear him discuss whether, for example, "Obama-care" would be a good thing.

But I do agree with your point that the way MSNBC and the Clinton News Network distort facts with seeming impunity is so much more serious. That's who you meant, right?

[Ted Sallis]

IMO...
Mob Rules is better than Heaven and Hell
Blizzard of Ozz is better than Diary of a Madman
and Mob Rules is better than Diary of a Madman.

...is there a Heaven and Hell vs. Blizzard of Ozz poll somewhere in here?

Ted

[RLP4ever]

I'm not sure I would agree with characterizing my point as controversy. As I said, mythology is welcome to his opinions, and equally welcome to voice them. But when someone says they don't consider anything other than the Ozzy era Black Sabbath, and proudly proclaims not to post to the Dio era boards, then I think that person's statement that Mob Rules is shit has to be placed in context. I read with interest the exchanges in another thread about the merits of various types of extreme metal. Personally, I don't subscribe to the view that music can fairly be charged with responsibility for any of it's listener's actions. And I'm not in favor of music being compelled to censor itself (by government or artist) so that it's acceptable to every imaginable type of listener. On the other hand, as I've said before, I find that type of music personally unlistenable. And if I were to weigh in on the subject of, say, Slayer's new album by simply saying it stinks (I've never heard it), I think it's only fair that I disclose that the chances of me saying it's great are nil.

Ok, if wasn't a 'controversy' per se, your back-handed original remark to mythology, earlier, sure seemed like a needless provocation to me. I recall how we had a bad-tempered run-in over something almost identical, in the past---i.e my elaborate critique of, and negative ratings for TDYK made you jump in and go on to repeatedly insist how my well-known lowly regard for Dio-Sabbath (except Mob Rules) made it almost a given that I'd say what I did about TDYK. And you even seemed to arrogantly argue that it was, consequently, so very unnecessary of me to even venture to comment on TDYK. I naturally couldn't let that particular nonsense pass---and I did not.

You seemed to be starting something similar here, about mythology's opinionated remark regarding Diary vs Mob Rules. Regardless of how blatantly 'partisan' mythology may be about the eras--(and frankly, I wasn't really fully aware of his stance on the Sabbath eras)----I don't see what you get out of exposing his 'extreme bias' here. It's irrelevant---and gosh, he isn't alone in exhibiting 'extreme bias', from time to time, in the myriad sundry thread topics we have circulating in the forums. Strange how, on the one hand, you talk of 'welcoming any opinion' he wishes to have, but in the same breath, snidely cast aspersions on his 'objectivity' (when album preferences are mostly 'subjective' matters, anyway). The 'political' analogy you unveiled in your response, to characterise mythology's comments seemed patently inapt and unfair, that's all.

I'm glad to know that you oppose the pleas for the sort of retarded 'censorship' decrees on 'extreme metal' that many of the genre's moronic 'moralist' critics have sometimes demanded. I didn't know that you were no fan of Slayer----but I still wouldn't begrudge your saying that their latest album sucked big-time. I think I give you a lot more credit, though, than to ever expect you to say something like that if you hadn't even heard the album. But I wouldn't wanna jump in and say 'Well, what else would you expect from a Slayer-hater?'... if you get what I mean.

Which brings me to my analogy. George is the host (not a panelist intended to obviously advocate a particular point of view) of a Sunday morning news program in the US. I think people should be aware of his background, and thus his biases, when they hear him discuss whether, for example, "Obama-care" would be a good thing.

But I do agree with your point that the way MSNBC and the Clinton News Network distort facts with seeming impunity is so much more serious. That's who you meant, right?

George is hardly the first 'host' (and not a mere guest 'panelist') on a U.S cable tv news & analysis show, to identifiably belong to a certain political persuasion. When it comes to 'hosting' on TV, coupled with the host's personal political affiliations and 'agendas', however well-known or not, I gotta guess that examples abound of that...and singling out George Stephanopoulos is pretty lame. And how many people, do you seriously reckon, that actually watch his show, or pay attention to his views and comments don't already know of his background and 'biases'? You obviously have no such qualms and misgivings about the bare-knuckled, bellicose 'biases' of rabid rabble-rousers of the likes of a Limbaugh or O'Reilly or Hannity.

As for the likes of MSNBC and CNN promiscuously "distorting facts", well I reckon that, the two of them, combined, couldn't even fantasise about remotely scaling the statospheric heights of deceit and dangerously demented demagoguery, long attained by the 'good folks' at Fox. 'Fair and balanced' eh? Or was it actually 'We Report. You Decide'? No, no..We Decide. You Destroy, LOL

And oh, 'Obama-Care'...Mate, you'd be pretty lucky to get even a diluted, semi-decent final version of that good thing...eventually. Unless, of course, you are cheerful about the status quo and the wretched, unconscionable, indefensible mess your health care system's mired in, today.

[TJSwoboda]

Let's steer this away from politics, guys.

[RLP4ever]

Oh yes, TJ. I'm sorry for straying off-road here. I'll resist the temptation to go any further with this.

[The Rules Mob]

My apologies TJ. My fault for using the analogy in the first place.

RLP, I'm guessing you don't see the irony in, on the one hand, lamenting a bad tempered run in, and, on the other, describing another poster's observations as "arrogant" "nonsense" "snide" and "lame." To provide you with some context, go back and read the thread I referenced in my first response to mythology from the time my name and his name first pop up. I think you'll see that, far from "starting something" and engaging in "needless provocation" I was merely referring back to our first exchange. In it, I referred to the Ozzy era of Black Sabbath as just that, and mythology pointed out that, in his view, that was unnecessary, since any other wasn't Black Sabbath. So, when he opined that Mob Rules is shit, I simply pointed out to him that, having indicated that the band fronted by Dio isn't worthy of the Black Sabbath name, it was little surprise he referred to Mob Rules that way. You're right it was similar, in a sense, to your review of TDYK, although I seem to recall your review had a lot more vitriol for Dio's talents in general. And, initially, I did the same thing with you. In neither case did I say "Well, what do you expect from a Dio hater." Your response in both instances has been, ironically enough again, eerily similar to certain US media personalities that are suggested as holding a bias. "What? How dare you? Outrageous!" they thunder. I don't see why you're so insulted by the observation, and regard it as "inapt and unfair." This is a forum. When people have suggested they hold extreme metal in less esteem than you do, I would suggest you're a whole lot more confrontational than I was with mythology or you, at least initially.

Two final points. I won't violate TJ's admonition, but remind me to tell you some time about the man from Perth (your neighborhood, no?) I met at Massachusetts General Hospital about a decade ago. He was my dad's roommate while they were both undergoing what was once a very dangerous and invasive procedure, but now could be done so that they both could leave the hospital after about 48 hours. It's a long way from Perth to Massachusetts for no reason other than medical care, isn't it?

If you're using "retarded" to mean delayed (although your context doesn't appear to be using it that way) kudos for the good vocabulary. If you're using it to imply a mental deficiency, please don't. As someone with a close family member who is mentally challenged, that type of thing pisses me the fuck off.

[Vynlsol]

Tough choice!

For me, Diary gets the nod, by a hair.

It was sometime in early '82, I was riding around with a couple friends of mine in the proverbial "party van", reveling in a chemically enhanced state of mind and listening to both Diary of a Madman and Mob Rules back-to-back. Anyway, it was the first time I'd heard either album all the way through, and they both knocked my ass off.