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  1. #1

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    Default Dumfries '69 Tapes

    Someone mentioned the Dumfries '69 tapes in another thread. WHat are these? Are they soundboard sourced?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmoog View Post
    Someone mentioned the Dumfries '69 tapes in another thread. WHat are these? Are they soundboard sourced?
    i'm sure someone else has exact info about it,but its a audience recording of earliest
    shows (earth) played and its a recording sharon and ozzy bought rights to.
    and every person who collect live show-like me-- wish would surface.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesline View Post
    i'm sure someone else has exact info about it,but its a audience recording of earliest
    shows (earth) played and its a recording sharon and ozzy bought rights to.
    and every person who collect live show-like me-- wish would surface.
    Ah I collect live Sabbath recordings but I never heard of this one. Who owned the rights before the Osbournes?

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    Yeah, and after all this time, it still hasn't surfaced officially or otherwise. Frustrating to say the least. This show had the original 18 minute version of "Warning" as well as some other early covers the band used to play, and which have never seen the light of day.

    Maybe 2010 for the 40th anniversary of the first album (and second)??

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesline View Post
    i'm sure someone else has exact info about it,but its a audience recording of earliest
    shows (earth) played and its a recording sharon and ozzy bought rights to.
    and every person who collect live show-like me-- wish would surface.
    Actually, they had already been Black Sabbath for three or four months at the time. It's was recorded from the audience at the Rugman's Youth Club, in Dumfries, UK, on 1969/11/16 (shortly after the band had recorded the first album). Here's a bunch of infos I copied from an older thread, it should give you the info you're looking for :

    Alex Wilson (of Iron Claw), the guy who taped this show, rediscovered he had it in early 2005 after it had slep 36 years in his attic. He wanted to get some money for it and so he sold it to Sharon Osbourne with the understanding that no further copies were to be done. Only a handful of copies have been done during the time the taper and the Osbournes were negociating, and the very few people who have one of these have been sworn not to leak them away under any circumstance. This is why you might most certainly never see them in trading circle. The only main chance to see this recording unearthed would be that the Osbournes who now own the master would officially release it from their vaults, but I don't see this happen any day soon.

    Here's another review by the taper himself (from Sabbathlive.com) :

    Alex Wilson: “The night of Sunday, 16th November 1969 at Rugman's Youth Club changed my life. I'd never heard a band play with such power or heavy riffs before, and it actually made me start my own band!”

    “I'll start off by describing Rugman’s - it's like standing in a small section of railway tunnel. There were stages at both ends, possibly about 20 yards long with walls curving onto the ceiling. The stage Sabbath played on was about 2 foot high. There were no fancy stage lights, just one red bulb overhead and all the other room lights were out! There was about a crowd of 80 to 100 of an average age around 16 years, so there was no alcohol. It is worth noting that there was NO swearing from Ozzy, possibly because there were kids present and maybe his Dumfries girl friend as well – a girl named Gillian McQueen.”

    “The acoustics were quite good if there was a crowd in. The show was recorded at the far stage from where the Sabs played, using one Grundig dynamic mike (thus making the tape just monaural). There was no automatic level setting on the mike then, so there are fluctuations in the recording level, as well as the inevitable bits of tape dropout considering the age of the tape originally used. During the music solos, you can hear the crowd chatting and discussing the evening, due to the obvious fact that they were standing between the mike and the band.”

    “The original tape was recorded on a Grundig reel to reel at 3 and 3/4 ips. I used to record every Amplified Heat show, so my equipment was there. Towards the end of the seventies, the tape began to fall apart. God knows when the original tape used was manufactured! But I did manage to transfer the recording to another reel to reel. Sabbath played 2 sets that night, but I was so gobsmacked that I didn't record the first set!”

    “Sabbath's equipment set-up that night was as follows: Ozzy sang through a Vox 100 watt P.A. amplifier via 2 Vox columns with four 10” speakers in each of them! Geezer and Tony had a Laney stack each with two 4 x 12" speaker cabinets each, but amazingly their Laney amp heads were only 60 watts (one amp per stack)! Bill's kit consisted of 1 bass drum, one hanging tom, one floor tom, one snare, and a hi hat!!”

    “The tape lasts approximately 62 minutes and the running order is as follows:

    1. “Black Sabbath”: I managed to get the last minute and half of this song.

    2. “Let Me Love You Baby”: This is a fast jazz-blues song that I'm sure Jeff Beck/Rod Stewart did on their first LP. It lasts just under 5 minutes, but sadly suffers from a bit of volume drop out for 20 seconds in the last minute of the song. Otherwise, it's brilliant. This was the end of their first set of the evening. Ozzy announces that they’ll have a half-hour break at this point in the show. [Editors note: This song is actually a Buddy Guy song that was later covered by many artists including the Jeff Beck Group and Stevie Ray Vaughan. The original tape loses volume towards the end of the song, but this has been fixed...]

    3. "A Song For Jim" / Bill Ward's Drum Solo / "A Song For Jim" [reprise]: The second set starts off with a flute and drum solo section featuring Tony Iommi on flute! This segues into Bill Ward soloing with his tiny kit! This section lasts approx 11 minutes and has a jazzy flute part in the middle that sounds like something out of the Pink Panther!” [Editor's note - Although Alex had originally listed this one as just a "Flute & Drum solo", it immediately occurred to me that Tony was actually playing the melody for "A Song For Jim"! Upon closer inspection, I realized that Geezer was playing as well, so this is actually a live version of the song so many collectors have been clawing for. While we've only heard a smidgen of the unreleased demo for this song on the BLACK SABBATH STORY - VOLUME 1 video, we get to hear quite a bit more here. This rarely heard song sandwiches a rather lengthy Bill Ward drum solo and a short flute interlude from Tony. The complete running time of this track is 11:01.]

    4. “The Warning”: After a small break of 30 seconds the fourth track is "Warning", lasting 17 minutes and 45 seconds. There are slight bits of volume dips and tape dropout during this number, which is otherwise very good quality. [Editor's note - This rendition of "The Warning" contains a few extra sections that were likely cut from the studio version, making this a nice opportunity to hear what may have been extracted. You can tell the audience is getting rather restless by the 15 minute mark, so it was probably wise to edit this one for the album. There is a small cut towards the end of the song, but is probably missing only a minute or so.]

    5. “Wicked World”: The next song is "Wicked World", lasting 5 minutes 30 seconds. This features a jazzy section between verses 1 and 2 that’s not on the single version. I don’t know if it's been on any other recordings or not. There's a severe jump in the volume during the instrumental section leading to the last verse. God knows what caused that! You can hear Bill counting in the ending...

    6. “Behind The Wall Of Sleep”: Next up is "Behind The Wall Of Sleep" at just under 5 minutes. The last 70 seconds features a fast jazz blues section, which I don’t remember on the original release. [Editor's note – This includes the same jazzy section that can also be heard on Paris ’70, John Peel’s Sunday Show 4/26/70 and Koln 4/3/70. This leads me to believe that the band originally intended that section to be part of the song. The studio version ends just before they would ordinarily kick into the jazz vamp.]

    7. "Early One Morning" [a.k.a.“Early Morning School”]: The seventh track is a fast blues/boogie, which I believe they called "Early Warning School”. I don’t have the announcement on tape, but I seem to recall that was the title they said. But I'm going back 35 years here to remember this! It lasts just under 5 minutes. Very good. [Editor's note – Sorry for the previous confusion on the title. David Rostowsky pointed out that this is more than likely a cover of the Elmore James song "Early One Morning", with slightly butchered lyrics!]

    8. “N.I.B.”: The eighth track is "NIB" at just over 5 minutes long. This is the one that changed my musical outlook and encouraged me to start my own band. [Editor's note - "N.I.B." has different lyrics!! The 'chorus' sections ("My love for you has got to be real") are the same, but the verses are completely different.]

    9. “Blue Blood Man”: The last track and the encore for the night is called "Blue Blood Man". It’s a fast blues/boogie that showcases Tony doing his Alvin Lee impersonation (via Django Reinhardt!) This lasts over 6 minutes and is great!


    “I spoke to the band after the show when they were packing their gear into their old Transit. I asked Tony why he had left Jethro Tull after even being on Top Of The Pops. T.O.T.P. was the ultimate pinnacle in those days, for you knew you'd arrived if you got on it. He told me he'd "Rather play with my mates. Jethro Tull are weird!" I can also remember my flared trousers flapping in the wind from the volume of the show when I was standing in front of the stage! I met the band another 3 times in the very early 70's and they always remembered the times they played in Dumfries. I'm sure there are more Dumfries dates for your timeline, which I'll try and find out for you.”
    Tony Iommi Fact #216: In fact, most demolition companies don’t use explosives to collapse buildings, only a good stereo and a copy of “Dehumanizer”.
    "Black Sabbath : la Bête venue de Birmingham"

  7. #7

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    the very few people who have one of these have been sworn not to leak them away under any circumstance.
    Well, at least not without making cash for it first...

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamroom View Post
    Well, at least not without making cash for it first...
    i would'nt blame anyone trying to make cash,cause if caught you would be dealing with sharons lawyers! and to see it posted in a boot-site would be suicide for that site-onwer
    cause it would be shut-down if info got back to her,so if you have recordings pm
    me ill pay you some bucks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    Actually, they had already been Black Sabbath for three or four months at the time. It's was recorded from the audience at the Rugman's Youth Club, in Dumfries, UK, on 1969/11/16 (shortly after the band had recorded the first album). Here's a bunch of infos I copied from an older thread, it should give you the info you're looking for :

    Alex Wilson (of Iron Claw), the guy who taped this show, rediscovered he had it in early 2005 after it had slep 36 years in his attic. He wanted to get some money for it and so he sold it to Sharon Osbourne with the understanding that no further copies were to be done. Only a handful of copies have been done during the time the taper and the Osbournes were negociating, and the very few people who have one of these have been sworn not to leak them away under any circumstance. This is why you might most certainly never see them in trading circle. The only main chance to see this recording unearthed would be that the Osbournes who now own the master would officially release it from their vaults, but I don't see this happen any day soon.

    Here's another review by the taper himself (from Sabbathlive.com) :

    Alex Wilson: “The night of Sunday, 16th November 1969 at Rugman's Youth Club changed my life. I'd never heard a band play with such power or heavy riffs before, and it actually made me start my own band!”

    “I'll start off by describing Rugman’s - it's like standing in a small section of railway tunnel. There were stages at both ends, possibly about 20 yards long with walls curving onto the ceiling. The stage Sabbath played on was about 2 foot high. There were no fancy stage lights, just one red bulb overhead and all the other room lights were out! There was about a crowd of 80 to 100 of an average age around 16 years, so there was no alcohol. It is worth noting that there was NO swearing from Ozzy, possibly because there were kids present and maybe his Dumfries girl friend as well – a girl named Gillian McQueen.”

    “The acoustics were quite good if there was a crowd in. The show was recorded at the far stage from where the Sabs played, using one Grundig dynamic mike (thus making the tape just monaural). There was no automatic level setting on the mike then, so there are fluctuations in the recording level, as well as the inevitable bits of tape dropout considering the age of the tape originally used. During the music solos, you can hear the crowd chatting and discussing the evening, due to the obvious fact that they were standing between the mike and the band.”

    “The original tape was recorded on a Grundig reel to reel at 3 and 3/4 ips. I used to record every Amplified Heat show, so my equipment was there. Towards the end of the seventies, the tape began to fall apart. God knows when the original tape used was manufactured! But I did manage to transfer the recording to another reel to reel. Sabbath played 2 sets that night, but I was so gobsmacked that I didn't record the first set!”

    “Sabbath's equipment set-up that night was as follows: Ozzy sang through a Vox 100 watt P.A. amplifier via 2 Vox columns with four 10” speakers in each of them! Geezer and Tony had a Laney stack each with two 4 x 12" speaker cabinets each, but amazingly their Laney amp heads were only 60 watts (one amp per stack)! Bill's kit consisted of 1 bass drum, one hanging tom, one floor tom, one snare, and a hi hat!!”

    “The tape lasts approximately 62 minutes and the running order is as follows:

    1. “Black Sabbath”: I managed to get the last minute and half of this song.

    2. “Let Me Love You Baby”: This is a fast jazz-blues song that I'm sure Jeff Beck/Rod Stewart did on their first LP. It lasts just under 5 minutes, but sadly suffers from a bit of volume drop out for 20 seconds in the last minute of the song. Otherwise, it's brilliant. This was the end of their first set of the evening. Ozzy announces that they’ll have a half-hour break at this point in the show. [Editors note: This song is actually a Buddy Guy song that was later covered by many artists including the Jeff Beck Group and Stevie Ray Vaughan. The original tape loses volume towards the end of the song, but this has been fixed...]

    3. "A Song For Jim" / Bill Ward's Drum Solo / "A Song For Jim" [reprise]: The second set starts off with a flute and drum solo section featuring Tony Iommi on flute! This segues into Bill Ward soloing with his tiny kit! This section lasts approx 11 minutes and has a jazzy flute part in the middle that sounds like something out of the Pink Panther!” [Editor's note - Although Alex had originally listed this one as just a "Flute & Drum solo", it immediately occurred to me that Tony was actually playing the melody for "A Song For Jim"! Upon closer inspection, I realized that Geezer was playing as well, so this is actually a live version of the song so many collectors have been clawing for. While we've only heard a smidgen of the unreleased demo for this song on the BLACK SABBATH STORY - VOLUME 1 video, we get to hear quite a bit more here. This rarely heard song sandwiches a rather lengthy Bill Ward drum solo and a short flute interlude from Tony. The complete running time of this track is 11:01.]

    4. “The Warning”: After a small break of 30 seconds the fourth track is "Warning", lasting 17 minutes and 45 seconds. There are slight bits of volume dips and tape dropout during this number, which is otherwise very good quality. [Editor's note - This rendition of "The Warning" contains a few extra sections that were likely cut from the studio version, making this a nice opportunity to hear what may have been extracted. You can tell the audience is getting rather restless by the 15 minute mark, so it was probably wise to edit this one for the album. There is a small cut towards the end of the song, but is probably missing only a minute or so.]

    5. “Wicked World”: The next song is "Wicked World", lasting 5 minutes 30 seconds. This features a jazzy section between verses 1 and 2 that’s not on the single version. I don’t know if it's been on any other recordings or not. There's a severe jump in the volume during the instrumental section leading to the last verse. God knows what caused that! You can hear Bill counting in the ending...

    6. “Behind The Wall Of Sleep”: Next up is "Behind The Wall Of Sleep" at just under 5 minutes. The last 70 seconds features a fast jazz blues section, which I don’t remember on the original release. [Editor's note – This includes the same jazzy section that can also be heard on Paris ’70, John Peel’s Sunday Show 4/26/70 and Koln 4/3/70. This leads me to believe that the band originally intended that section to be part of the song. The studio version ends just before they would ordinarily kick into the jazz vamp.]

    7. "Early One Morning" [a.k.a.“Early Morning School”]: The seventh track is a fast blues/boogie, which I believe they called "Early Warning School”. I don’t have the announcement on tape, but I seem to recall that was the title they said. But I'm going back 35 years here to remember this! It lasts just under 5 minutes. Very good. [Editor's note – Sorry for the previous confusion on the title. David Rostowsky pointed out that this is more than likely a cover of the Elmore James song "Early One Morning", with slightly butchered lyrics!]

    8. “N.I.B.”: The eighth track is "NIB" at just over 5 minutes long. This is the one that changed my musical outlook and encouraged me to start my own band. [Editor's note - "N.I.B." has different lyrics!! The 'chorus' sections ("My love for you has got to be real") are the same, but the verses are completely different.]

    9. “Blue Blood Man”: The last track and the encore for the night is called "Blue Blood Man". It’s a fast blues/boogie that showcases Tony doing his Alvin Lee impersonation (via Django Reinhardt!) This lasts over 6 minutes and is great!


    “I spoke to the band after the show when they were packing their gear into their old Transit. I asked Tony why he had left Jethro Tull after even being on Top Of The Pops. T.O.T.P. was the ultimate pinnacle in those days, for you knew you'd arrived if you got on it. He told me he'd "Rather play with my mates. Jethro Tull are weird!" I can also remember my flared trousers flapping in the wind from the volume of the show when I was standing in front of the stage! I met the band another 3 times in the very early 70's and they always remembered the times they played in Dumfries. I'm sure there are more Dumfries dates for your timeline, which I'll try and find out for you.”
    thanx for information ,it's not nice reading about something you'll probably never hear.
    it's like going to a resturant starving and you only get to smell the food. tortue!!

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesline View Post
    cause if caught you would be dealing with sharons lawyers! and to see it posted in a boot-site would be suicide for that site-onwer
    I doubt it. She doesn't seem too bothered about all the Sabbath and Ozzy shows circulating freely on teh interweb. No bans on any of the torrent sites, plus the pirate bay doesn't give a shit about Sharon, or anyone, so it would thrive there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamroom View Post
    I doubt it. She doesn't seem too bothered about all the Sabbath and Ozzy shows circulating freely on teh interweb. No bans on any of the torrent sites, plus the pirate bay doesn't give a shit about Sharon, or anyone, so it would thrive there.
    well were talking about copyrights that they now own,thats infringments that can have damaging consquences to anybody putting it out publicly.and any site owner can be sued.
    as for other boots on net,thats a totaly differnt story none of that have copyright ownership.
    thats why all these boot sites are restricted to release anything thats been officially released
    if they do,that can lead to a law suit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesline View Post
    thanx for information ,it's not nice reading about something you'll probably never hear.
    it's like going to a resturant starving and you only get to smell the food. tortue!!
    I'm hoping this material (live and studio) is going to be a 40th anniversary gift to the fans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thesithempire View Post
    I'm hoping this material (live and studio) is going to be a 40th anniversary gift to the fans.
    I certainly hope so as well!

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    Selling that stuff to Osbourne just ensures that it won't be released as Black Sabbath. Maybe one track may surface on an Osbourne anthology. Selling this to Sanctuary would have been better for our ears...

  15. #15
    Janek500
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    Hey guys, don'cha think we should send a collective letter to Osbournes with petition to release Dumfries record?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janek500 View Post
    Hey guys, don'cha think we should send a collective letter to Osbournes with petition to release Dumfries record?
    go for it,and well your at it ask sharon to release the blizzard of ozz band video at capital center--GOOD LUCK !!!

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    Lots of information here on the Dumfries show and A Song For Jim, just thought I'd revive this old thread.
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
    ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

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    Blue Blood Man Please!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex View Post
    Blue Blood Man Please!!
    Blue Blooded Man, A Song For Jim, When I came Down [Full Song] I want to hear every single Earth demo song.
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
    ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

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    Man, after reading this description above, I so want to hear this.
    There is something important to be said

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    Quote Originally Posted by brokentiny View Post
    Man, after reading this description above, I so want to hear this.
    Thank you for your interest in early pre-Sabbath Brokentiny, if we're lucky someday Sharon will release those gems.
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
    ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

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    Let's hope so, OID.

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    Quite weird really. I was only chatting to the man who recorded this only the other day. His band were support band for that gig. He had an interest in recording gear at the time. So decided to record the gig. What a gem it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iconosphere View Post
    Quite weird really. I was only chatting to the man who recorded this only the other day. His band were support band for that gig. He had an interest in recording gear at the time. So decided to record the gig. What a gem it is.
    Wow Iconospshere, you know the guy who recorded the Dumfries show? That is cool!

    You heard it also?
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
    ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

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    anyone saw the footage on youtube titled, black sabbath germany 1970(new footage), didnt know where to bang this post so just thought id put it in here instead of starting a new thread. anyway all i can say is WOW, great stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oh lord yeah! View Post
    anyone saw the footage on youtube titled, black sabbath germany 1970(new footage), didnt know where to bang this post so just thought id put it in here instead of starting a new thread. anyway all i can say is WOW, great stuff.
    Great footage, here's the thread with the discussion: http://www.black-sabbath.com/vb/show...ck-New-Footage

    Most complete upload on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6l0Co3EE6k

  27. #27
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    cheers dude.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollerjoint View Post
    Great footage, here's the thread with the discussion: http://www.black-sabbath.com/vb/show...ck-New-Footage

    Most complete upload on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6l0Co3EE6k
    Thank you Rollerjoint, I will be taking a look at this tomorrow, much appreciated.
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
    ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

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