Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 41 to 80 of 81
  1. #41

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DiosSword View Post
    I have read varying accounts of Tony Iommi as a person.

    Ozzy once called him "Darth Vader."

    Ronnie James Dio said that Tony is "very reserved...he stands onstage and plays his instrument...he's not a leaper."

    Dave Spitz said "he's like the nicest guy in the world."

    I have never had the honour of meeting him, but he strikes me as being very much in his own little world and quite shy. That can often be mistaken as arrogance. I am much the same way so I relate.
    Neil Murray said that Tony Iommi is a nice man who hates conflicts, which is why whenever someone tells him he'll do his dirty work for him, he'll just accept (which has been the case with most evictions in Sabbath). But, on the other hand, if you wish to engage a direct conflict with him, then you have to be ready to be punched through a wall !

    I think all these accounts are true. Tony is a human being, like all of us. People are complex. We're not the same person at every moment of the day or with everyone we deal with. I think overall he's a good guy who's had his share of mistakes and "bastard moments", and you don't want to fuck with him !
    Tony Iommi Fact #216: In fact, most demolition companies don’t use explosives to collapse buildings, only a good stereo and a copy of “Dehumanizer”.
    "Black Sabbath : la Bête venue de Birmingham"

  2. #42

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,982

    Default

    Tony Martin was not "abused" by Sabbath. He was a contractor who did a job ... nobody held a gun to his head to keep coming back. If he had better things to do he would have been doing them.

    I admire Martyin for his work and his tenure with the band, but the answer to the question this thread poses is "no."

  3. #43

    Default

    Yes, well, you guys are right. But, as a response to the initial question I will quote dude above:

    Was Martin abused by Sabbath?

    J Hillenburg: There's no question in my mind that Martin's loyalty and hard work were rewarded with cold-blooded business decision that disrespected the efforts he had given as the band's singer.

    DioSword: Agreed fully, and attested to by Cozy Powell, Neil Murray and Geoff Nicholls.

    Martin may have been "just" an employee of Tony Iommi, but rarely in the music industry or the business world do you find one who is such a team player.
    Can't you see what I see
    You and I victims of Their word
    As the master of power
    Try to poison our world
    ----- Eternal Idol ~ 1987

  4. #44

    Default

    It occurs to me that perhaps Mr. Martin was the victim of being in a band called Black Sabbath, within which there is a certain amount of pressure to "be Black Sabbath". After listening to stuff like G//Z/R and "Kiss of Death" recently, and reading some of the interviews with Geezer from around the time that the first G//Z/R album came out (Geezer said something along the lines of being "Deep Purple Mark 10" and having nothing to do with the original idea of Black Sabbath), it got me to wondering if perhaps some configuration of the Martin Era might have been more stable if it weren't called Black Sabbath. I am not meaning to disrespect that era at all, or say that it isn't Black Sabbath - it is, and I often find myself wishing there were more of it. But what I am trying to say here is that, maybe, if the band had been called something else, there wouldn't have been pressures/ideas to "get back Dio", "get back Ozzy", "get ALL the original guys back together", "get rid of Tony Martin", etc, and maybe as some "other project / band" it might have existed longer in some fashion, or even today, even though we did get the original Black Sabbath back, and the Dio era back (twice).

  5. #45

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fondula View Post
    if the band had been called something else, there wouldn't have been pressures/ideas to "get back Dio", "get back Ozzy", "get ALL the original guys back together", "get rid of Tony Martin", etc,
    And probably no contract either!
    The dog's name is Pete. If he tries to mount you in the middle of the night, say "no" sternly. But don't look him in the eye.

  6. #46
    blakforest
    Guest

    Default hey

    im gerade neu in diesem Forum...

  7. #47

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David86 View Post
    And probably no contract either!
    Thats right.
    Can't you see what I see
    You and I victims of Their word
    As the master of power
    Try to poison our world
    ----- Eternal Idol ~ 1987

  8. #48
    J Hillenburg's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Bloomington, Indiana
    Posts
    1,107

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by racer View Post
    Tony Martin was not "abused" by Sabbath. He was a contractor who did a job ... nobody held a gun to his head to keep coming back. If he had better things to do he would have been doing them.
    So the fact that he had a choice means that there's not even a chance that his multiple exits should have been handled with the class befitting a skilled, hard-working employee? Employers are justified in treating their employees however they like when the employee chooses to be there and take it repeatedly? I disagree with your logic and feel like you are absolving Iommi of any responsibility for actions that the vast majority of people think were questionable at best. I know you are a great admirer of Tony, but like you and me both, he hasn't always behaved well as an individual.

  9. #49

    Default

    IMO - it hurt BS to re-hire martin again and again, under those circumstances. I mean, if you get rid of a singer cuz you got someone who you think will be better for the band... then that doesn't work out, then you re-hire the old guy --- the message this sends out is that you are going backwards. It also doesn't speak well for the old guy - and a front man in the RnR business needs to be a damb strong character to command such respect.

    Personally, I agree that Iommi could have thought this one out a lot more carefully.

    IMO it would have been better to either:
    1) stick with Martin
    2) ...or once dropped Martin - NOT taken him back (at least NOT again under the BS name)

    ....but at the end of that day, my feeling is that it could have been called something different right from the beginning with Martin.

  10. #50

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David86 View Post
    And probably no contract either!
    Hahaha
    Anyway, I'm not trying to bring up the whole "should it be considered Sabbath" thing because it has the name, it is Sabbath, the end. I am just trying to say that MAYBE if the Martin stuff had a different "brand" then Martin might not have kept getting replaced (maybe there would have instead been "breaks" where everyone went off and did other things under other names), and maybe the long-term relationship would have ended up in better shape.
    But maybe not, who the hell knows. Things transpired as they did for many reasons.
    Last edited by fondula; 09-29-2010 at 12:02 PM.

  11. #51

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,982

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by J Hillenburg View Post
    So the fact that he had a choice means that there's not even a chance that his multiple exits should have been handled with the class befitting a skilled, hard-working employee? Employers are justified in treating their employees however they like when the employee chooses to be there and take it repeatedly? I disagree with your logic and feel like you are absolving Iommi of any responsibility for actions that the vast majority of people think were questionable at best. I know you are a great admirer of Tony, but like you and me both, he hasn't always behaved well as an individual.
    All I'm saying is that he didn't have to keep coming back; nobody held a gun to his head. The gig must not have been that bad, and he obviously had nothing better to do to or he would have been doing it. But he was compensated ... so I wouldn't go so far as to say he was "abused." Could he have been treated better ... perhaps, but that's hindsight and I wasn't there. It appears he may not have been treated properly given his loyalty ... but were we there? If he was treated so poorly, why did he keep coming back?

    That's the key ... he kept coming back. Nobody should take abuse from anemployer ... but he kept coming back. Obviously he didn't feel things were too bad at the time, so who are we to look back in hindsight and try to paint some ugly picture of it now?

    Like I said, I admire his loyalty. And the Martin era of Black Sabbath produced some of my favorite music. But was he "abused"? Let me ask you ... do you go back to an employer time and time again who abuses you? My guess is the answer is "no." So I would say Martin probably wasn't "abused" by Sabbath, either.
    Last edited by racer; 10-23-2010 at 11:58 PM.

  12. #52
    Non Insect Overlord Joe Siegler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1995
    Location
    TEXAS!
    Posts
    5,538

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DiosSword View Post
    Yes...Garry Sharpe-Young relates that during the dust-up over the Live Evil mix, Iommi bellowed I'm in fucking charge here! at the studio engineer.
    That's a studio engineer. That's a hugely different perspective than saying the same thing to a Tony Martin, Ozzy Osbourne, or a Vinny Appice or someone like that. Your point about him being the kid from Aston punching people out is valid, but quoting the studio engineer as the lead point in your argument is tenuous at best.

    ---------- Post added at 12:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:12 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by J Hillenburg View Post
    So the fact that he had a choice means that there's not even a chance that his multiple exits should have been handled with the class befitting a skilled, hard-working employee? Employers are justified in treating their employees however they like when the employee chooses to be there and take it repeatedly? I disagree with your logic and feel like you are absolving Iommi of any responsibility for actions that the vast majority of people think were questionable at best. I know you are a great admirer of Tony, but like you and me both, he hasn't always behaved well as an individual.
    Well, let's see. The first incarnation of the band he was let go along with everyone else to do the Dehumanizer reunion. Although not a clean break. Initially Geezer was brought back and was going to work on it in that way, but I have a magazine around here talking about how Tony & Geezer had to "get rid of" Tony Martin.

    Then Dio came back, worked on Dehumanizer, they had a tiff, Tony Martin came in and re-recorded the vocals again as in the previous album, and then they dumped him again when Dio came back. Now I would imagine some of the songs probably were around in embryonic form when Martin was still in the band post Tyr, so it's probably not as "cold" for him as Eternal Idol was.

    Then they asked Martin to bail their asses out at Costa Mesa. He couldn't come due to biz comittments (touring with Cozy Powell's Hammer at the time), and they got Rob Halford instead.

    He came back after that to do Cross Purposes, and did that and the Forbidden album/tour, and at which point the IRS contract expired with the release of the Sabbath Stones greatest hits album in 1996. Story at the time went that Iommi delivered a hits album just to get out of the contract, instead of doing another new studio album.

    Then there were an assload of rumours in 1996 about Rob Halford replacing Tony Martin. This was not too long after the time my site started (July 1995), and back then a site regular had written Tony Martin in mid 1996 about all this shit, and Martin said that the band was still "together", just on hold, and that they intended to get back together again. I think it's still on my site somewhere.

    Edit: Found it. Go read that letter from Martin in 1996 here: http://www.black-sabbath.com/interviews/tmletter2.html

    Then we got Ozzfest 1997 (which has a whole new level of shafting a member - Bill Ward, but this thread isn't about that). From what I can gather, Martin was never told they weren't doing anything anymore, he was just never called, and obviously he saw what happened with Ozzfest 97, and figured that was it.

    He definitely was jacked around - I lived through all this, and while I don't have things I can link to to prove my point, I remember talk at the time being that it was not always pleasant in terms of departures.

    I think in the end, Martin got tired of being jerked around, and finally said "Fuck it". As far as I can tell, Martin still has a bit of a chip on his shoulder about it. I haven't asked him in awhile about it, as the last few times I did, I got the impression he'd rather not talk about it.
    Last edited by Joe Siegler; 10-24-2010 at 12:22 AM.
    Joe Siegler, Webmaster - Black Sabbath Online
    View my CD collection | View my movie collection | What I've been listening to

    "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." (Matthew 25:41)

  13. #53

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,982

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wicked Cricket View Post
    People weren't buying a band with one original player, even if he is the player...


    Ah, but they do. Alice Cooper started as the name of a hard rock band. After Muscle of Love, Alice Cooper's original band disappeared to go out on their own as "Billion Dollar babies." ... They didn't make it, but the lead singer - and only original member left - is still hugely popular. How many lineup changes has Fleetwood Mac seen? They certainly aren't remembered for their first or second incarnation.

    You never know in the industry what might strike gold ... and I dare say much of the Martin-era music was much better than a lot of the shite that was released back then. A combination of luck and flaws in management, lack of faith from record companies ... who knows? But I don't see Martin as a stop-gap or fill-in singer ... he was Black Sabbath's singer. As the owner of the business, iommi had business decisions to make. The more I think about it, the fact that he continued to bring Martin back actually shows a certain amount of respect, because if Iommi never believed Martin had the potential to lead the band to great things, why bring him back? Headless sold more in Germany than any other sabbath recordin, so obviously there was potential there. I think Martin was asked back because of that potential ... it's not entirely Iommi's fault the potential wasn't realized.

  14. #54
    Rusty Bullet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Berkshire, England.
    Posts
    391

    Default

    Was Tony Martin abused by Sabbath? Slightly I think, but it is not like he was going to make it big anywhere else. I regret, in a way, that Iommi kept going back to him. While Tony Martin was an excellent singer, his writing was generally not as good and going back to him meant they pigeon-holed themselves as a band, being that Tony Martin is a 'classic' rock singer/song writer. The best album he sang on, I think, was one he didn't write. Sadly also, his voice started to go during the early 90s and was a pale shadow of his former self on the Forbidden album.
    Last edited by Rusty Bullet; 10-30-2010 at 08:41 AM.

  15. #55

    Default

    I dunno, it wasn't the most successful time for the band. Iommi could have fired Martin many times before Dio came back.

    And you can't blame Tony for reuniting with Dio and Ozzy. The fans wanted it and it meant a great deal more money. And then he brought Martin back when Dio left.

    I think Iommi was probably more faithful to Martin than other bands in those positions would have been.

  16. #56
    Non Insect Overlord Joe Siegler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1995
    Location
    TEXAS!
    Posts
    5,538

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IronDan View Post
    I dunno, it wasn't the most successful time for the band. Iommi could have fired Martin many times before Dio came back.

    And you can't blame Tony for reuniting with Dio and Ozzy. The fans wanted it and it meant a great deal more money. And then he brought Martin back when Dio left.

    I think Iommi was probably more faithful to Martin than other bands in those positions would have been.
    I think it's more the case the way Martin was dismissed when he was than that they kept coming back to him.
    Joe Siegler, Webmaster - Black Sabbath Online
    View my CD collection | View my movie collection | What I've been listening to

    "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." (Matthew 25:41)

  17. #57
    OzzyIsDio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sabbath Forever, Forever Sabbath
    Posts
    10,202

    Default

    I say Tony Martin was used and abused and tossed out like yesterday’s garbage every time someone more popular came along, like Ozzy and Ronnie, no doubt about it.
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
    ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

  18. #58
    OzzyIsDio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sabbath Forever, Forever Sabbath
    Posts
    10,202

    Default

    I’m not criticizing Tony Iommi for it though because I’m glad we got those tours and albums with Ronnie and Ozzy, and hopefully now Tony Martin will get his due and during the new Martin/Sabbath remasters we’ll get some new Sabbath material with Tony M. I’ve really grown to like the Martin era and can say I’m a Martin fan.

    And I’ll be buying all the Martin/Sabbath remasters.
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
    ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

  19. #59

    Default

    Martin is lucky to have had the oppertunities he did, considering he had no star power, no stage presence, no prestige, wasn't good looking and had the blandest of generic 80s deodorant commercial voices.

    Of course Iommi dropped him like a hot turd.

  20. #60
    maestro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    291

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheels Of Confusion View Post
    Martin is lucky to have had the oppertunities he did, considering he had no star power, no stage presence, no prestige, wasn't good looking and had the blandest of generic 80s deodorant commercial voices.

    Of course Iommi dropped him like a hot turd.
    Lucky to have gotten the job originally. But he did prove himself I believe.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  21. #61

    Default

    Iommi was the lucky one , seriously .... HC is as good as Sabotage and Dehumanzer , and one of the 3 most impeccable vocal albums on planet earth ,, TYR is absolutely brilliant ,,, EI is one of the 9 greatest pieces of art in this fine universe ,,,, Forbidden is Martin's raw moment in Sabbath - and it's as good as it gets ,,, CP is utterly fantastic ....... ya , thus far , Martin is responsible for 50 of the most special tracks ever recorded - ya , no doubt , Iommi was the lucky one ......


    "Kill In The Spirit World" , best Sabbath track of all time .... God Bless Sabbath maniacs!

  22. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to BACK TO EDEN For This Useful Post:

    ronn (03-16-2019), tsimisde (03-16-2019)

  23. #62
    maestro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    291

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BACK TO EDEN View Post
    Iommi was the lucky one , seriously .... HC is as good as Sabotage and Dehumanzer , and one of the 3 most impeccable vocal albums on planet earth ,, TYR is absolutely brilliant ,,, EI is one of the 9 greatest pieces of art in this fine universe ,,,, Forbidden is Martin's raw moment in Sabbath - and it's as good as it gets ,,, CP is utterly fantastic ....... ya , thus far , Martin is responsible for 50 of the most special tracks ever recorded - ya , no doubt , Iommi was the lucky one ......


    "Kill In The Spirit World" , best Sabbath track of all time .... God Bless Sabbath maniacs!
    Amen Doc. Great post


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  24. The Following User Says Thank You to maestro For This Useful Post:

    ronn (03-16-2019)

  25. #63
    ronn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    GA
    Posts
    1,253

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BACK TO EDEN View Post
    Iommi was the lucky one , seriously .... HC is as good as Sabotage and Dehumanzer , and one of the 3 most impeccable vocal albums on planet earth ,, TYR is absolutely brilliant ,,, EI is one of the 9 greatest pieces of art in this fine universe ,,,, Forbidden is Martin's raw moment in Sabbath - and it's as good as it gets ,,, CP is utterly fantastic ....... ya , thus far , Martin is responsible for 50 of the most special tracks ever recorded - ya , no doubt , Iommi was the lucky one ......


    "Kill In The Spirit World" , best Sabbath track of all time .... God Bless Sabbath maniacs!
    Amen Doc \m/ perfectly said!

  26. #64

    Default

    Oh yes, Tony Martin the world's greatest vocalist.

    Move over Plant, move over Freddie...here comes the Cat.

  27. #65

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheels Of Confusion View Post
    Oh yes, Tony Martin the world's greatest vocalist.

    Move over Plant, move over Freddie...here comes the Cat.
    There you go brother Wheels , finally stating some facts on Tony "the muther friggin" Cat!!

  28. #66
    OzzyIsDio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sabbath Forever, Forever Sabbath
    Posts
    10,202

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheels Of Confusion View Post
    Martin is lucky to have had the oppertunities he did, considering he had no star power, no stage presence, no prestige, wasn't good looking and had the blandest of generic 80s deodorant commercial voices.

    Of course Iommi dropped him like a hot turd.
    Wheels, the Cat was the most loyal and dependable Sabbath singer of all and with no ego like the others.


    Humility counts a lot.
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
    ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

  29. #67

    Default

    Music business, is a business most of all as its name says. So, because Tony Martin, didn't brought enough profit in the band, he got the boot. Ok, he wasn't got treated well but, you cant be kind on similar occasions. If your business is having problems, you have to solve them.

    First of all, Tony Martin, wasn't able to pull up on the whole tour some of his vocal duties on 100%. He blamed his poor stamima for this but, judging from the live stuff i have heard from that era, he never had a great stamina! He had poor stamina, he had a flu and it is really bad that, you can't perform your own work because of this. I'm really dissapointed that on EVERY live performance of the song Headless Cross, i NEVER heard Tony Martin pulling out his high note on the chorus in the same or in a similar way to the original version. If i have to hear prerecorded or backing vocals doing the job, i prefer to hear the original version in order to satisfy myself.

    If i was a fan back then, i would be definetely dissapointed if i went to a Black Sabbath concert to hear some of my favorite songs like Anno Mundi and Headless Cross to be a pain in the a*s to handle on live.

    Okay, i agree that the way Martin got the boot, wasn't the most kind but, it was expected to happen....

  30. #68
    OzzyIsDio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sabbath Forever, Forever Sabbath
    Posts
    10,202

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tsimisde View Post
    Music business, is a business most of all as its name says. So, because Tony Martin, didn't brought enough profit in the band, he got the boot. Ok, he wasn't got treated well but, you cant be kind on similar occasions. If your business is having problems, you have to solve them.

    First of all, Tony Martin, wasn't able to pull up on the whole tour some of his vocal duties on 100%. He blamed his poor stamima for this but, judging from the live stuff i have heard from that era, he never had a great stamina! He had poor stamina, he had a flu and it is really bad that, you can't perform your own work because of this. I'm really dissapointed that on EVERY live performance of the song Headless Cross, i NEVER heard Tony Martin pulling out his high note on the chorus in the same or in a similar way to the original version. If i have to hear prerecorded or backing vocals doing the job, i prefer to hear the original version in order to satisfy myself.

    If i was a fan back then, i would be definetely dissapointed if i went to a Black Sabbath concert to hear some of my favorite songs like Anno Mundi and Headless Cross to be a pain in the a*s to handle on live.

    Okay, i agree that the way Martin got the boot, wasn't the most kind but, it was expected to happen....
    You make a lot of valid points T, I’m simply stating that Martin was used over and over again, if Martin didn’t deliver the goods, then Tony should’ve hired someone with more star power if you will.

    Then again Tony dropped Dio, for Ozzy who had even more star power.

    So yes its all business, and like I said earlier in my post I don’t criticize Tony for doing it, because after all business is business and when in business the purpose of the business is to make money.
    Last edited by OzzyIsDio; 04-07-2019 at 09:28 AM. Reason: Typo
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
    ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

  31. The Following User Says Thank You to OzzyIsDio For This Useful Post:

    tsimisde (03-18-2019)

  32. #69

    Default

    I don't think "abused" is the right word. Did Iommi take Martin for granted? Yes. However, it could be argued that Martin meekly returned after Ronnie left for the second time. Is that not a glutton for punishment?

    Slightly off topic, you could also argue that the Dehumanizer album and tour didn't meet commercial expectations either. It was the right band and product at the wrong time.

    Still, it was a credible reunion because a new album and tour materialized. Unlike today, where most reunions are tour first, album... maybe. Wrongly I might add. But I digress.

    Ultimately, I think Iommi was kidding himself during the Martin years. Sure, he carried on the best he could, and that lineup had some decent moments. He's even admitted over the years that the band's credibility took a big hit. That can't be easy to accept.

    All told though, I would be LYING profusely if I said I would trade the Dehumanizer tour as my first Black Sabbath concert for ANY of the Martin tours as a "first". NO contest whatsoever.

  33. #70
    OzzyIsDio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sabbath Forever, Forever Sabbath
    Posts
    10,202

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by A Sabbath Historian View Post
    All told though, I would be LYING profusely if I said I would trade the Dehumanizer tour as my first Black Sabbath concert for ANY of the Martin tours as a "first". NO contest whatsoever.
    Unfortunately I never got to see Dio/Sabbath or Martin Sabbath, only original Sabbath, several times.

    I regret that now, as I always loved the Dio era, the Martin era is a different story as I only got into that, the last few years, If a Martin reunion were to happen now, I'd definitely buy tickets.
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
    ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

  34. #71

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OzzyIsDio View Post
    Unfortunately I never got to see Dio/Sabbath or Martin Sabbath, only original Sabbath, several times.

    I regret that now, as I always loved the Dio era, the Martin era is a different story as I only got into that, the last few years, If a Martin reunion were to happen now, I'd definitely buy tickets.
    Yeah but you'd buy tickets to a Kelly Osbourne book reading out of loyalty to the Black Sabbath!

    Each to his own, but it's agreed by all but the nutters that the Tony Martin eras were lowpoints for Black Sabbath...the name was "literally in the toilet" to quote Sharon, and she wasnt wrong.

  35. #72
    OzzyIsDio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sabbath Forever, Forever Sabbath
    Posts
    10,202

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheels Of Confusion View Post
    Yeah but you'd buy tickets to a Kelly Osbourne book reading out of loyalty to the Black Sabbath!

    Each to his own, but it's agreed by all but the nutters that the Tony Martin eras were lowpoints for Black Sabbath...the name was "literally in the toilet" to quote Sharon, and she wasnt wrong.
    Yes I am a Kelly fan and a Martin/Sabbath fan, and damn proud of it! I’d be the first in line to buy tickets for both.
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
    ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

  36. #73

    Default

    Low point my ass .... only for the hard of hearing , lack of insight between the ears , or the lost and confused ,,,,, the 50 Martin Era tracks are the very definition of a "musical" innovative high point for the Sab's ,,, thankyou JESUS for that AMAZING "timeless" period of time!


    As you walk alone the night surrounds you like a shroud
    The dreams you had were once of love and being proud
    Misty horizons block your vision of the world
    But the raven's eyes will show you all you need to know

    The land you loved is now so barren and so cold
    The name of God rings out so high in your soul
    This time the masters will lead us by the sword
    And should we fail then all prevails in Odin's court

  37. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to BACK TO EDEN For This Useful Post:

    ronn (04-09-2019), tsimisde (04-09-2019)

  38. #74
    Ala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Västerås, Sweden
    Posts
    252

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheels Of Confusion View Post
    Each to his own, but it's agreed by all but the nutters that the Tony Martin eras were lowpoints for Black Sabbath...
    Well, that's just not true. The Martin-era has got some fantastic stuff and it's only close minded "No Sabbath without Ozzy"-people who would say otherwise.

  39. #75

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ala View Post
    Well, that's just not true. The Martin-era has got some fantastic stuff and it's only close minded "No Sabbath without Ozzy"-people who would say otherwise.
    It is true.

    The Martin era albums and tours were flops and poorly attended.

  40. #76
    Ala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Västerås, Sweden
    Posts
    252

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheels Of Confusion View Post
    It is true.

    The Martin era albums and tours were flops and poorly attended.
    Oh, okay, I misunderstood you. A lowpoint commercially, yes. But not creatively or musically.

  41. #77

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ala View Post
    Oh, okay, I misunderstood you. A lowpoint commercially, yes. But not creatively or musically.

    No, I'm no t an Ozzy only guy either.
    I think Cross Purposes spanks the pants off of 13 for example.

  42. The Following User Says Thank You to Wheels Of Confusion For This Useful Post:

    tsimisde (04-11-2019)

  43. #78

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheels Of Confusion View Post
    No, I'm no t an Ozzy only guy either.
    I think Cross Purposes spanks the pants off of 13 for example.
    At least, Cross Purposes was much more original than 13. Great songs on 13 but, the stuff was recycled from the glorious days and, i'm not so interested on this album. Cross Purposes, smashed the boundaries and, modernized the Sabbath style and sound and i liked it because of this. Some really great stuff on this album and at this very moment, Cross Of Thorns comes to mind....

  44. #79

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tsimisde View Post
    At least, Cross Purposes was much more original than 13. Great songs on 13 but, the stuff was recycled from the glorious days and, i'm not so interested on this album. Cross Purposes, smashed the boundaries and, modernized the Sabbath style and sound and i liked it because of this. Some really great stuff on this album and at this very moment, Cross Of Thorns comes to mind....
    13 wasn't a classic Sabbath album and some of the guitars sound thin. In a few years, I can see Iommi remixing this album as well and maybe using a different set of songs to those that ended up on the album.

    I agree that a couple of the songs appeared to re-cycled, Zeitgeist, End of the Beginning etc, but a great album could still be picked out of the remaining songs.

    As for Tony Martin, well, it's my least favourite era of the band, but he did a job, unfortunately the band couldn't get arrested and in the music business, that's the kiss of death for every band.

    I saw them a few times on the Forbidden tour in the UK and the ticket sales were poor, even for the small venues the bands played. I remember speaking to fans who were already calling it the Forgotten tour.

    Something had to change.

  45. #80

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    1,789

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sabbath68 View Post
    13 wasn't a classic Sabbath album and some of the guitars sound thin. In a few years, I can see Iommi remixing this album as well and maybe using a different set of songs to those that ended up on the album.

    I agree that a couple of the songs appeared to re-cycled, Zeitgeist, End of the Beginning etc, but a great album could still be picked out of the remaining songs.

    As for Tony Martin, well, it's my least favourite era of the band, but he did a job, unfortunately the band couldn't get arrested and in the music business, that's the kiss of death for every band.

    I saw them a few times on the Forbidden tour in the UK and the ticket sales were poor, even for the small venues the bands played. I remember speaking to fans who were already calling it the Forgotten tour.

    Something had to change.
    Something might have had to change, sure. But they could have done the right thing by Martin and not kept him in suspense for something like two to three years (from memory, he wasn't formally told that 'his services were no longer needed' until 1998 or 1999).

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •