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  1. #1
    cwilder86's Avatar
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    Default If Gillan, Iommi, and Butler formed a new group... Who should drum?

    This is inspired by the "If not Bev Bavan, than who?" thread. Let's say Gillan, Iommi, and Butler decided to form a Born Again band/project or whatever... (It wouldn't be called Black Sabbath) then who should drum? I'm already gonna go ahead and say that Bill Ward is gonna take a pass on it since he passed on Heaven and Hell and obviously doesn't want to work with Iommi and Butler unless Ozzy is involved. So should they get Bev Bevan back? (Is he even free right now) Or should they go for another drummer. Personally I think I'd rather see another drummer join this hypothetical line up.
    I make the devil laugh and angels wail. Forever I will reside beyond the pale.

  2. #2
    IommiRules's Avatar
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    Ellbery and I were just commenting on Eric Singer in the Vinnie Appice thread. After listening to Seventh Star several times in the last couple of weeks, I think Singer would be an almost ideal fit for Ian, depending on where his voice is. If it is closer to where it was for "Dreamcatcher", then that changes things. I know he is tied up with kiss, but... c'mon Eric! Come back to the fold and help deliver a monster!!

    If not Singer: ???

    Vinnie Paul Abbott
    Dave Grohl
    Tommy Aldridge
    Lee Kerslake

    It's going to be interesting.
    Last edited by IommiRules; 11-01-2010 at 10:35 PM. Reason: Misspelled Tommy's last name
    The blind men shout "Let the creatures out, we'll show the unbelievers."
    The napalm screams of human flames, of a prime time Belsen feast ... yeah!
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  3. #3
    DISCMAN1969's Avatar
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    How about Simon Wright?
    "Dumb Ass" Red Foreman That 70's Show

  4. #4

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    I would love to hear what this would sound like with Ian Paice on the drums, and really make it "Black Purple". This probably wouldn't happen but I am picturing something that lands somewhere between "Black Night" and "Fairies Wear Boots" and boy would it be cool.

  5. #5
    IommiRules's Avatar
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    PLEASE, not Ian Paice, as I really don't want to see Iommi/Butler doing DP songs. Although, if they made a new record, they could tour and combine 9-11 new songs + Born Again and still have a potent show. Ian shouldn't have to sing Paranoid or H&H, and Iommi/Butler shouldn't be pounding out Smoke or Child In Time. IMO
    The blind men shout "Let the creatures out, we'll show the unbelievers."
    The napalm screams of human flames, of a prime time Belsen feast ... yeah!
    As the reasons for the carnage cut their meat and lick the gravy.
    We oil the jaws of the war machine and feed it with our babies.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by IommiRules View Post
    PLEASE, not Ian Paice, as I really don't want to see Iommi/Butler doing DP songs. Although, if they made a new record, they could tour and combine 9-11 new songs + Born Again and still have a potent show. Ian shouldn't have to sing Paranoid or H&H, and Iommi/Butler shouldn't be pounding out Smoke or Child In Time. IMO
    Oh I totally agree it should strictly be new material. I just really think that would be a cool band.

  7. #7
    DISCMAN1969's Avatar
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    If they do a new record and use a new name, then I have no problem Ian Paice on drums. I think that would be a very cool, intersting sound. The mix of Purple and Sabbath would work IMO. Although I do agree that if they toured, they should do mostly new material, you know a Sabbath tune or 2 or a Purple tune or 2 will be featured in the set list.
    "Dumb Ass" Red Foreman That 70's Show

  8. #8
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    Bill Ward.

    I know the OP said not to pick him but IMO, he's the only drummer for Iommi and Butler.

  9. #9
    RedZero's Avatar
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    Someone with siginificant technical ability would be refreshing for a change. Neil Peart comes to mind but it's anyone's guess what such a lineup would sound like.

  10. #10
    Pink Led Rush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedZero View Post
    Someone with siginificant technical ability would be refreshing for a change. Neil Peart comes to mind but it's anyone's guess what such a lineup would sound like.
    Peart is my fav drummer and Rush my fav band, but I can't see him working. I like the idea of Ward or Paice though. Rondinelli would be cool.

  11. #11

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    BOBBY RONDINELLI
    Ginger Baker
    Nick Mason
    Danny Carey
    Deen Castranova
    Lee Kerslake

  12. #12
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    Why, Phil Collins of course!

    Seriously though? Any durmmer friend I have so I could borrow cash from them.

  13. #13

    Default Bill or Vinny

    i would pick Bill Ward if he didnt want to do it then i would get Vinny Appice

  14. #14

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    ME!

  15. #15
    cwilder86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Butt View Post
    Bill Ward.

    I know the OP said not to pick him but IMO, he's the only drummer for Iommi and Butler.
    Well I said to not Pick Bill with good reason. Does any body here honestly think that Bill would join Gillan, Iommi, and Butler? I mean he wouldn't join Dio, Iommi, and Butler, so that to me shows he's quite clear that he won't join unless it's Osbourne on vocals.
    I make the devil laugh and angels wail. Forever I will reside beyond the pale.

  16. #16
    Pink Led Rush's Avatar
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    He did join them, but Ronnie just wasn't getting what he wanted out of his playing I do believe. Vinny was the perfect choice for the reunion anyway as Bill hadn't played tracks from Mob Rules or Dehumanizer before.

  17. #17
    Non Insect Overlord Joe Siegler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwilder86 View Post
    Well I said to not Pick Bill with good reason. Does any body here honestly think that Bill would join Gillan, Iommi, and Butler? I mean he wouldn't join Dio, Iommi, and Butler, so that to me shows he's quite clear that he won't join unless it's Osbourne on vocals.
    That's not entirely true. He did join Dio/Iommi/Butler, and started playing. I asked this exact thing to someone close to Iommi (I better not reveal that source, or I'm dead), and was told something along these lines (I'm paraphrasing).. Bill's style of drumming is much different than the kind of music that Heaven & Hell did. Bill's is more jazzy, more improvisational, and the kind of beat that they wrote was not that - more mechanical, more "keep the time". So if they did do new material with Ozzy, Bill might be a more likely choice.

    Back to me: Having said that, they did replace Bill with a drum machine on one of the two studio tracks recorded with Ozzy in 1998, so who knows? It all depends on the tunes, I suppose. Bill's been well known over the years for having some uh, "issues" with Black Sabbath without Ozzy. His departure from Heaven & Hell in 2006 was NOT related to that. At the time Bill declined comment, but not too long after that issued a statement that echoed what I was told above. I also had a personal speculation that calling it "Heaven & Hell" and not Black Sabbath would have addressed Bill's "head games" regarding being in Black Sabbath, and given he did originally sign up, I'm assuming he was OK in that regard.

    Back to the original question... Failing Bill Ward, the other person I'd want there is dead (Cozy Powell). What's Bev Bevan doing these days?

    Here's a choice. Vinnie Paul.
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  18. #18
    cwilder86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Siegler View Post
    That's not entirely true. He did join Dio/Iommi/Butler, and started playing. I asked this exact thing to someone close to Iommi (I better not reveal that source, or I'm dead), and was told something along these lines (I'm paraphrasing).. Bill's style of drumming is much different than the kind of music that Heaven & Hell did. Bill's is more jazzy, more improvisational, and the kind of beat that they wrote was not that - more mechanical, more "keep the time". So if they did do new material with Ozzy, Bill might be a more likely choice.

    Back to me: Having said that, they did replace Bill with a drum machine on one of the two studio tracks recorded with Ozzy in 1998, so who knows? It all depends on the tunes, I suppose. Bill's been well known over the years for having some uh, "issues" with Black Sabbath without Ozzy. His departure from Heaven & Hell in 2006 was NOT related to that. At the time Bill declined comment, but not too long after that issued a statement that echoed what I was told above. I also had a personal speculation that calling it "Heaven & Hell" and not Black Sabbath would have addressed Bill's "head games" regarding being in Black Sabbath, and given he did originally sign up, I'm assuming he was OK in that regard.

    Back to the original question... Failing Bill Ward, the other person I'd want there is dead (Cozy Powell). What's Bev Bevan doing these days?

    Here's a choice. Vinnie Paul.
    Holy crap. My memory must be failing me... You are right, I totally forgot that Bill was part of Heaven And Hell for a little while.
    I make the devil laugh and angels wail. Forever I will reside beyond the pale.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by ministrymember99 View Post
    BOBBY RONDINELLI
    Ginger Baker
    Nick Mason
    Danny Carey
    Deen Castranova
    Lee Kerslake
    Castronono is tied up with Journey and apparently is planning a solo record. Dude sounds like a dead ringer vocally for Steve Perry

    ---------- Post added at 04:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:32 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by IommiRules View Post
    Ellbery and I were just commenting on Eric Singer in the Vinnie Appice thread. After listening to Seventh Star several times in the last couple of weeks, I think Singer would be an almost ideal fit for Ian, depending on where his voice is. If it is closer to where it was for "Dreamcatcher", then that changes things. I know he is tied up with kiss, but... c'mon Eric! Come back to the fold and help deliver a monster!!

    If not Singer: ???

    Vinnie Paul Abbott
    Dave Grohl
    Tommy Aldridge
    Lee Kerslake

    It's going to be interesting.
    Singer won't come back unless KISS is taking time off because he makes to much money with KISS and I think he enjoys working with them. If you could find a boot of video performance of his work with KISS between 92-95. He was a monster. Now they have him playing more like Peter Criss and while he's still good it doesn't sound as awesome.

  20. #20
    Drago's Avatar
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    I would like to see Bill Ward back but if that doesn't work I would go with Kenny Aronoff. I think his work with Iommi on Fused is amazing. I have liked his work with John Fogerty over the years. I think he would be a great choice.
    Religion won't save me
    The damage is done
    The future has ended
    Before it's begun
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  21. #21
    Ellbery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IommiRules View Post
    Ellbery and I were just commenting on Eric Singer in the Vinnie Appice thread. After listening to Seventh Star several times in the last couple of weeks, I think Singer would be an almost ideal fit for Ian, depending on where his voice is. If it is closer to where it was for "Dreamcatcher", then that changes things. I know he is tied up with kiss, but... c'mon Eric! Come back to the fold and help deliver a monster!!

    If not Singer: ???
    I'm with you on this one!
    He's not totally tied up with Kiss, he finds time for many other projects (Alice Cooper/Avantasia etc.)

    But I do hope they choose someone other than Ian Gillan!
    I love his older stuff (early Purple and Gillan) but recently his voice is gone and lyrically he's always been hit or miss.

  22. #22
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    I really doubt that Bill Ward would do anything not involving Ozzy, whether it's called "Black Sabbath" or not. I consider him more or less semi-retired anyway, and he's earned it.

    I would not pick Bev Bevan. He may have been good with The Move/ELO but the Sabbath boots I've heard from '83-'84 have very, very bad drumming.

    Lee Kerslake would probably only come as a package deal with Bob Daisley.

    Ian Paice is one of my favourite drummers but his staccato style is just so associated with DP that I don't think it would be a good fit...having said that, he was very good with Whitesnake and Gary Moore (I saw Moore live when he had Paice in the lineup).

    Neil Peart is brilliant but outside of Rush about all I could see him doing would be jazz. I think there would be massive personality conflicts because Peart is so used to doing things his way, and I don't mean that as a knock. Also, I think they should have a British drummer and of course NEP is Canadian (also disqualifying the excellent Americans Tommy Aldridge and Eric Singer).

    My #1 pick would be Aynsley Dunbar. The guy is a fantastic drummer in the Cozy Powell mould; just listen to the first three pre-Steve Perry Journey albums. He's on Infinity too but he's made no secret of how Journey's new musical direction was not his favourite, to be kind. He also has a loose Sabbath connection. "Warning" was done by his '60s band, Aynsley Dunbar's Retaliation, and Dunbar co-wrote the song.

    Les Binks, the drummer on Judas Priest's Stained Class, Killing Machine/Hell Bent For Leather and Unleashed In The East. The intro to "Exciter" is classic. Why they replaced him with Dave Holland is beyond me.

    Ted McKenna, who drummed on Michael Schenker's Assault Attack and Built To Destroy. Slammin' guy.

    Mick Underwood, if he doesn't still hold a grudge against Ian Gillan!

    Kenney Jones...I thought he deserved a lot better than he got from his time with The Who.

    Simon Phillips, who of course was great on Judas Priest's Sin After Sin and the first Michael Schenker Group album, but I don't know if he'd want to stick to just heavy metal.

    Phil "Philthy Animal" Taylor, what has he done lately?
    He is not here. He has risen!

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drago View Post
    I would like to see Bill Ward back but if that doesn't work I would go with Kenny Aronoff. I think his work with Iommi on Fused is amazing. I have liked his work with John Fogerty over the years. I think he would be a great choice.

    Kenny is amazing and can play anything. He's worlds ahead of Bevan.

  24. #24
    Non Insect Overlord Joe Siegler's Avatar
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    What about kenny Aaronoff or Jimmy Copley? They both played drums on Iommi solo albums.
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    "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." (Matthew 25:41)

  25. #25

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    Id still pick Rondinelli, Baker, or Kerslake.

  26. #26
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    I think that it is kind of funny that none of you have named a drummer under 40 years old and most of the ones named are in their 50s or beyond (Ginger Baker is 71!). I'm also surprised that no one named Nicko McBrain considering they all just recorded that song together.

  27. #27

  28. #28

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    I would love to see Bill Ward to drum in the group but he doesn't do anything that does not involve Ozzy being in the group. My 2nd option is Vinny Appice

  29. #29

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    I think they would be amazing with Dave Turncrantz. In fact, I'd love nothing more than hearing this guy on every project involving Iommi and Butler.
    Riffs
    ________

    If I had to make a list, I'd write Cozy Powell somewhere on there and then 43,084 drummers later, Vinnie Appice - hipster doofus

  30. #30
    OzzyIsDio's Avatar
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    How about Mikkey Dee?
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
    ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

  31. #31
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    No way Bill will ever do anything Musically with the other 3 again, I love Danny Carey from tool.

  32. #32
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    Dale Crover

  33. #33
    OzzyIsDio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sellingmysoul View Post
    No way Bill will ever do anything Musically with the other 3 again, I love Danny Carey from tool.
    Sadly enough I think you’re right Sellingmysoul, that time has passed, never to resume again.
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
    ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzzyIsDio View Post
    Sadly enough I think you’re right Sellingmysoul, that time has passed, never to resume again.
    Ya Unfortunately, Bill feels betrayed by them.

  35. #35
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    Dale Grover would be a great choice. Another one who've atually shown he can do (a) Sabbath(ish) justice is Brad Wilk.

    Alot of these Rondinelli, Appice, Simon Wright suggestions are just to mechanincal, as Joe Siegler put it. Would just make for another sub-par Heaven & Hell outing.

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