View Poll Results: Which album is better?

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  • Heaven and Hell

    47 58.02%
  • Blizzard of Ozz

    24 29.63%
  • Apples and Oranges

    10 12.35%
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  1. #121

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    Yeah man, I respect that.

    I don't mean to rag out on RJD, the guy kicked all sorts of ass really...I just wish he could have used the "less is more" approach sometimes (much like how I wish Ozzy didn't feel the need to bellow stuff to the crowd all the way through songs)
    I'm probably alone on this one, but for me the first Rainbow album is Ronnie at his best- I like how it's generally more understated than Rising, for example.

    I couldn't honestly say either H&H or BoO was better than the other, I just know Blizzard relates more to me personally.

  2. #122

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheels Of Confusion View Post
    Yeah man, I respect that.

    I don't mean to rag out on RJD, the guy kicked all sorts of ass really...I just wish he could have used the "less is more" approach sometimes (much like how I wish Ozzy didn't feel the need to bellow stuff to the crowd all the way through songs)
    I'm probably alone on this one, but for me the first Rainbow album is Ronnie at his best- I like how it's generally more understated than Rising, for example.

    I couldn't honestly say either H&H or BoO was better than the other, I just know Blizzard relates more to me personally.
    I completely understand this viewpoint except that it more applies to instrumentalists for me. I agree about Ronnie in some ways but not about the first Rainbow album. To me, that album lacks the songwriting brilliance that chunks of Rising has and certainly H&H. Too much of that debut Rainbow album is pretty standard rock and roll without enough depth to keep me interested in any prolonged manner. Elf is similar.

  3. #123
    Now in Darkness's Avatar
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    Doc, you make some interesting points. Album sales are clearly a measure of greatness, but they are not the only measure of greatness. TE and NSD were generally less successful than other Ozzy era Sabbath albums, and they were certainly less commercially accessible, but they are both amazing nonetheless. I like H&H less than both of those albums, but I could see how it's measure of greatness is outside the realm of album sales. A comparable would be LZ III or LZ Presence; both were weaker sellers for Zep, and far from commercially accessible, but each is brilliant in terms of the true art that resides within the grooves of those discs. They are thinking albums that draw you in for a look at the bigger picture. A song such as Gallows Pole has so many nuances and flavors that are brought out through the use of acoustic guitar, banjo, mandolin, electric guitar, acoustic bass, and very selective use of cymbals. Truly amazing work, so I get that there are many measures of brilliance in music, and many people have a taste for deeper cuts, that reveal the artistry in another way.
    Casting his shadow, weaving his spell, funny clothes, tinkling bell.

  4. #124

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    A lot of people use album sales to gauge how heaven & hell stacks up against TE and never say die. But they don't use that same measure to stack heaven and hell against Blizzard of Ozz

  5. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by Now in Darkness View Post
    Doc, you make some interesting points. Album sales are clearly a measure of greatness, but they are not the only measure of greatness. TE and NSD were generally less successful than other Ozzy era Sabbath albums, and they were certainly less commercially accessible, but they are both amazing nonetheless. I like H&H less than both of those albums, but I could see how it's measure of greatness is outside the realm of album sales. A comparable would be LZ III or LZ Presence; both were weaker sellers for Zep, and far from commercially accessible, but each is brilliant in terms of the true art that resides within the grooves of those discs. They are thinking albums that draw you in for a look at the bigger picture. A song such as Gallows Pole has so many nuances and flavors that are brought out through the use of acoustic guitar, banjo, mandolin, electric guitar, acoustic bass, and very selective use of cymbals. Truly amazing work, so I get that there are many measures of brilliance in music, and many people have a taste for deeper cuts, that reveal the artistry in another way.
    GREAT FRIGGIN POST!!! .... my fav outside of your FISH TANK post a while back to NS!! ... not saying that just because your first sentence is so accurate , just a very well written thought you put together there!! ... I do tend to disagree with just a touch of it , outside of The Beatles , I don't necessarily see album sales as a sign of true art , integrity , credibility or greatness .... sure an album of such pedigree can obviously sell amazing , no doubt and that's just an added bonus!! ... my point with sales was simply in response to what I was reading from OIM and Jeff , and what WICKED use to bring the table here on these forums ... where is that guy??!! ... anyway great post!! ... for my reality of expertise , or lack there of , HEAVEN N HELL is untouchable outside of just a hand full of other Sabbath gems!!

    No doubt Zep 3 is a fantastic non Sabbath release....


    Quote Originally Posted by The Sabman Cometh View Post
    I respect Dio, but his vocal style is often redundant.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheels Of Confusion View Post
    but for the most part Ozzy's songs were more "mature" lyrically .
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
    I can relate to this, but I feel H&H is Dio's high point. .
    Contrary to how it may seem , I am a monster fan of everything Sabbath , but truly I just am .... love it all equally and beyond approach , its not an act of valor , I just am taken back by every track , just how brilliant they are across the board .... and I'm sure I come off as a Dio head , and I may be .... but im not sure if that's actually the case ... I just love it all , and none of it works with out the OZ ERA!!! ... not because it was the first and now maybe the last , again thanks to Dio , but simply because it is untouchable in the world of music ... and this allows the other ERA'S to breath a new energy of life!!!


    @SABMAN , love your thoughts always , but I must say in the realm of Sabbath , if you take the 5 studio releases Dio commands on , not one of them vocally sounds anything like the next .... HEAVEN N HELL is a 1970's sounding Ronnie , more 70's sounding vocals then either TE or NSD , and he is flat out brilliant on this album!!! MOB RULES is the new metal energy sound from mr DIO , and its so dynamic , powerful and emotional it just takes your breath away!! .... DEHUMANIZER is pure anger and aggression , and DIO at his peak as far as im concerned!! ... and the beauty about THE DIO YEARS , is those 3 songs are just so different in the way Ronnie punctuates his vocals its mesmerizing!! ... where TDYK is purely a methodical crushing everything in its way vocal performance... I ACTUALLY FIND THIS UNIQUE ATTRIBUTE to be very common in the performances of all FIVE Sabbath vocalist , they truly change from one release to the next ... not easy to do!!


    @WHEELS , hope your well my brother , the Dio era of Sabbath and the Geezer lyrical era of Sabbath are of absolute = "maturity" , they just write it from different angles , and thank goodness they do ... it again just adds to everything Sabbath represents!! ... Geezer is down right brilliant in his writing delivery , style and content ... as is Dio , who is more of a wizard with so much under lying depth to his content , you must search what your hearing ... and believe it or not Geezer uses a lot of this approach as well!! ... Rainbows debut is my favorite also!! ... Rising is technically and lyrically more sound , but nowhere near the innocence and purity of Blackmore's Rainbow!!


    @JEFF , whatever pieces I have had the pleasure of reading of yours that I can remember , I would say I have only disagreed with your arguments just a handful of times , if that ... one that stands out is the majesty that is SHOCK WAVE , I believe I remember you saying the vocal harmonies at the end are out of place , where I find them so integral in making that cut everything it is , much like the end of HARD ROAD!! .... but anyway I disagree with many things I read around these parts , much like everyone feeling that the Sabbath interview from the Sweden Rock Festival was so horrid , I thought the 3 guys were excellent in there some what conceded distained answers...

    But , anyway , I would put the lyrical content and delivery from heaven n hell up there with Sabotage , Sabbath bloody Sabbath , cross purposes and even some measures off of fused ... I would also argue in many ways Sabbath are masters with there Lyrical orchestrations , whether it be Vol 4 , Mob rules , 7th star , born again or Tyr ... they are definitely a band where the WORDS matter!!! .... I know you haven't said otherwise , I was just using that as a springboard .... BUT , I would easily say the lyrics from Dio reach a new high with ALL of Dehumanizer , Shadow of the wind , atom n evil and breaking into heaven!


    Peace brothers!!

  6. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by OIM View Post
    A lot of people use album sales to gauge how heaven & hell stacks up against TE and never say die. But they don't use that same measure to stack heaven and hell against Blizzard of Ozz
    Again, by using your logic: Michael Jackson's Thriller is the greatest album ever. So I hope you feel that way.

    Let's be serious, Blizzard is a little more commercial than H&H, and Ozzy later became perhaps in the Top 5 most well known rock stars of all time. Those two things drove its sales along with quality. Quality alone rarely drives sales, and Blizzard is surely no exception to this rule.

    Not to mention that we have people here who regard TE and/or NSD above H&H, so there is little evidence that anyone here gives a damn about commercial success versus what their ears embrace. It's not a double standard at all. At least not here, that I can see ...

  7. #127
    Wicked Cricket's Avatar
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    I was surprised and a bit saddened, yes saddened when I heard Ozzy's Blizzard... H&H had debued 1st, and blew me away, it was everything I could have imagined and more when the news of Dio joing the Sabs was announced, but Ozzy, I thought his solo work would be like Am I Going Insane... because that was suppose to be on his first solo album back before Sabotage... when I heard "I Don't Know" and that great breal where he sings "Nobody had to tell me, I found out for myself... you gotta believe in foolish miracles..." it was the ol' Ozzy... the one we loved from the very beginning, and I couldn't help but think BS had given up on him too soon... he still had it! I knew he and the album would be huge, and in the dawn of the MTV era where single artists were King/Queen vs Bands, Ozzy was about to be bigger than even Sabbath was with hin...

  8. #128
    oh lord yeah!'s Avatar
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    both great albums but blizzard is the better album for me, much prefer ozzys voice to dio's but also i think HH has three filler songs where as i like every song on blizzard. both albums represent a big achievement for both parties, i will say though that i prefer iommi over rhodes. rhodes was without doubt the more technical but i prefer iommi' soloing over rhodes and also his riffs.

  9. #129
    OzzyIsDio's Avatar
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    This was a hard one for me.
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
    ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

  10. #130

  11. #131

  12. #132

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    Is this even a question?

    Black Sabbath any incarnation >> Ozzy's best solo work

  13. #133
    OzzyIsDio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Towelie View Post
    Is this even a question?

    Black Sabbath any incarnation >> Ozzy's best solo work
    Not true, Heaven And Hell is up there with Ozzy's first two albums though.
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
    ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

  14. #134

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    Originally Posted by Towelie
    Is this even a question?
    Black Sabbath any incarnation >> Ozzy's best solo work


    Quote Originally Posted by OzzyIsDio View Post
    Not true, Heaven And Hell is up there with Ozzy's first two albums though.
    I agree w/OID; in my view the 1st 6 Sabbath albums with Ozzy as well as the albums Sabbath did with Dio and Ian Gillan are equal to or better than Ozzy's best solo 'work' (his 1st 2 albums). I consider everything else to be considerably inferior.

    Ted

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  16. #135
    OzzyIsDio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Sallis View Post
    Originally Posted by Towelie
    Is this even a question?
    Black Sabbath any incarnation >> Ozzy's best solo work




    I agree w/OID; in my view the 1st 6 Sabbath albums with Ozzy as well as the albums Sabbath did with Dio and Ian Gillan are equal to or better than Ozzy's best solo 'work' (his 1st 2 albums). I consider everything else to be considerably inferior.

    Ted
    Thank you Ted.
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
    ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

  17. #136
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    I like both but gave Heaven And Hell​ the edge. I play both regularly.
    He is not here. He has risen!

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