View Poll Results: Which album is better?

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  • Heaven and Hell

    47 58.02%
  • Blizzard of Ozz

    24 29.63%
  • Apples and Oranges

    10 12.35%
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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by hipster doofus View Post
    LMAO! I always loved this reasoning. "Sabbath was too heavy to be as popular as Ozzy."

    I guess it was Metallica's light hearted, toe tappin' beats that launched them in the 80's as Sabbath spiraled into commercial oblivion.....

    Actually, yes, that is exactly it on the Mettalica front. Did you not notice the change in style from "....and Justice For All" to "Metallica" (Black Album) and beyond. Metallica became a hard rock band. Particulaarly with "Load" and "Re-Load." Companred to Megadeth, who tasted commercial success, but not in the vain as Met, due to staying more true to metal roots, and not making commercially acceptable music. Same goes for Ozzy.

    IMO, this is not a slam on anyone, it is just stating the facts.

    Top of page 2!
    "I can honestly say itís truly been an honor to play at his side for all these years, his music will live on forever." ~ Tony Iommi (Speaking of Ronnie James Dio)

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wicked Cricket View Post
    Iommi vs Rhodes, well they approach the guitar from 2 entirly different styles, Tony's a blues player, like all his English peers of that era, Randy was a classical trained player, they're both supuerb players, but their styles are not apples to apples. I prefer blues players because they attack the heart and gut, the Van Halen / Rhodes styles are all head...
    Everybody has their preferences, I won't begrudge you that. But the idea that blues is all from the gut and VanHalen/Rhoads were all head, I have to disagree there. There is plenty of "emotion" in Randy's playing, as with Eddie's. Listen to the solo for "Goodbye to Romance" and tell me there is no "feeling" there! Now listen to the solo for Neon Knights...Iommi was trying to be flahier than Rhoads was, he just didn't have the wide array of tricks in his arsenal and didn't pull it off as well. Don't get me wrong, Iommi is a great player in his own right, and he had brilliant moments through his career, I love his lead work on Vol. IV and SBS in particular, but on the H&H album...not his shining moment, he was trying to be like Eddie I think. Just because somebody knows more scales and can play faster doesn't mean they have no feeling in their playing, just like just because somebody only knows the pentatonic scale doesn't mean everything they play is chock full of emotions.

    Now the whole Randy was too young thing that somebody else mentioned, just how old was Tony Iommi when they released Paranoid? 22 or something right?

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by H&H View Post
    Actually, yes, that is exactly it on the Mettalica front. Did you not notice the change in style from "....and Justice For All" to "Metallica" (Black Album) and beyond. Metallica became a hard rock band. Particulaarly with "Load" and "Re-Load." Companred to Megadeth, who tasted commercial success, but not in the vain as Met, due to staying more true to metal roots, and not making commercially acceptable music. Same goes for Ozzy.

    IMO, this is not a slam on anyone, it is just stating the facts.

    Top of page 2!
    I don't think Megadeth stayed true to their Metal roots with Risk that is for sure!!!!
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  4. #44
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hipster doofus
    LMAO! I always loved this reasoning. "Sabbath was too heavy to be as popular as Ozzy."

    I guess it was Metallica's light hearted, toe tappin' beats that launched them in the 80's as Sabbath spiraled into commercial oblivion.....


    Then H&H said:

    Actually, yes, that is exactly it on the Mettalica front. Did you not notice the change in style from "....and Justice For All" to "Metallica" (Black Album) and beyond. Metallica became a hard rock band. Particulaarly with "Load" and "Re-Load."

    The Black Album didn't launch Metallica's career in the 80s, your response didn't actually respond to what Hipster said.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by H&H View Post
    Actually, yes, that is exactly it on the Mettalica front. Did you not notice the change in style from "....and Justice For All" to "Metallica" (Black Album) and beyond. Metallica became a hard rock band. Particulaarly with "Load" and "Re-Load." Companred to Megadeth, who tasted commercial success, but not in the vain as Met, due to staying more true to metal roots, and not making commercially acceptable music. Same goes for Ozzy.

    IMO, this is not a slam on anyone, it is just stating the facts.

    Top of page 2!
    No, it's not a slam. Sales are sales, no matter how they're reached, I guess. I just never understood the reasoning. Yes, Metallica's transformation is beyond obvious. But that's why I specifically mentioned 80's, before the juggernaut Black Album. Master of Puppets reached #29 in the US and went gold with virtually no real support. In 1986? The land of glam? With that title track as a single? I mean, if that's not pure heavy metal... Same goes for Megadeth. Rust In Peace reached top 20's I believe with Holy Wars as a single.

    Those are just 2 quality examples of many. With that, I just can't buy into the whole "too heavy to sell." It's just not true. There were plenty quality heavy albums reaching many people at the same time Sabbath was struggling.

    Why did Sabbath struggle through the 80's and early 90's? I don't know. I loved Eternal Idol and Headless Cross. I'm sure there are dozens of theories. But I really, really don't think being too heavy is a logical one.
    ***Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of other internet people, the internet police or the internet in general. It is to be assumed that all sentences are automatically followed by "IMO, BUDDY" as to not offend other internet people and start an internet fight.

  6. #46

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    I just saw the throwdown on That Metal Show with Bill Ward and they decided (minus die hard Ronnie fan Eddie) that Blizzard was a better album than HH. The audience agreed too.

  7. #47
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    Heaven and Hell for me. Some years ago I would have said Blizzard of Ozz. Randy Rhoads may have more chops, but that's not so important! Yes, RR was one of the first shredder. But Tony Iommi is the master of riffs and godfather of Heavy Metal! Tony has written countless classics since 1970. Compare this with RR's early records, the shitty Quiet Riot 1 and 2. This is bubble gum metal with forgettable songs! I'm pretty sure that Bob Daisley had a great influence in writing the music of BOO and DOAM. Bark at the Moon and The Ultimate Sin had similar weaknesses. Excellent guitar solos but only a few very good songs. Ozzy's solo albums give me nowadays not very much. Heaven and Hell (and Mob Rules!) is like an old wine, the older the better!

    There was a time in my life when I've listen to a lot of the Neo-Classical shredders. There are some shredders that play much faster than RR, with more chops! But did they also write good music for eternity? No, they failed, even Yngwie Malmsteen! Because they are thinking that a guitar solo is more important than good riffs and good songs.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rutyA12z3Ok

    Michael Angelo Batio, maybe the fastest shredder of all time. But a very bad songwriter when he was in Nitro!

  8. #48
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    Just voted blizzard, what ever happened to ozzyironman?, hasn't posted for ages lol.
    Vote leave if u want totally cool either way

  9. #49

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    Like I was saying before. Blizzard was written and recorded in just over a month. Heaven and hell was written and recorded in just over a year. Can you imagine if that much effort had been put into never say die?

  10. #50

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    I'd have to go for Blizzard (and I think DOAM is even better) here.
    I'd take Blizzard, Diary, Bark At The Moon, The Ultimate Sin and No Rest over any post Ozzy Sabbath album actually.

    No Bone Movies is a bit of a throwaway, and I think there are stronger songs than Steal Away (The Night) on Heaven and Hell but overall I prefer Blizzard.

    Though Dio may have been the technically superior vocalist, I think he had a strong tendency to overdo it and lay on the histrionics- Ozzy had a magic touch to his voice and his melodies were sublime...nothing like it.
    I also infinitely prefer Bob Daisley's quasi spiritual/self aware lyrics to Ronnies dungeons and dragons/sword and sorcery fare.
    Last edited by Wheels Of Confusion; 06-10-2014 at 11:38 PM.

  11. #51

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    H&H easily, although I love Blizzard too. The last three tracks on it are just complete filler in my books while H&H doesn't have a single throwaway track (I even love Walk Away) and the highlights (title track, Neon Knights, COS, Die Young, Lonely Is The Word) are superior to the highlights of Blizzard (Mr. Crowley, Goodbye To Romance, I Don't Know, Crazy Train).

    H&H just seemes more ageless, one of the reasons being Birch's amazing production. Blizzard sounds dated at times compared to it or Diary Of A Madman.
    Last edited by -E5150 StarWanderer-; 06-11-2014 at 05:15 AM.
    "The consequence of conscience/Is that you'll be left somewhere/Swinging in the air"-Ronnie James Dio (1942-2010) R.I.P. King Of Metal
    "Just take a look around you what do you see/Pain, suffering, and misery/It's not the way that the world was planned/It's a pity you don't understand" - Geezer Butler
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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by -E5150 StarWanderer- View Post
    H&H just seemes more ageless, one of the reasons being Birch's amazing production. Blizzard sounds dated at times compared to it or Diary Of A Madman.
    That's actually quite true....and it actually applies to a lot of Ozzy albums. I think a lot of the production and even the song writing with Ozzy's solo band was always very contemporary....especially in the 80s...they all had that very distinct 80s sound...which was something that Sabbath managed to avoid almost entirely.

  13. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charger View Post
    That's actually quite true....and it actually applies to a lot of Ozzy albums. I think a lot of the production and even the song writing with Ozzy's solo band was always very contemporary....especially in the 80s...they all had that very distinct 80s sound...which was something that Sabbath managed to avoid almost entirely.
    I have to disagree here, well, concerning Blizzard Of Oz anyways. I can't for the life of me think of what other bands or albums at the time sounded like that, whereas that Martin Birch sound was everywhere in the early 80s. I do agree tat the production on H&H is superior though, much more professional, polished sound.

  14. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charger View Post
    That's actually quite true....and it actually applies to a lot of Ozzy albums. I think a lot of the production and even the song writing with Ozzy's solo band was always very contemporary....especially in the 80s...they all had that very distinct 80s sound...which was something that Sabbath managed to avoid almost entirely.
    I dunno man, the Tony Martin albums sound pretty damn 80's to my ears (not that that's particularly a bad thing, of course)

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sicko FanAtic View Post
    I have to disagree here, well, concerning Blizzard Of Oz anyways. I can't for the life of me think of what other bands or albums at the time sounded like that, whereas that Martin Birch sound was everywhere in the early 80s. I do agree tat the production on H&H is superior though, much more professional, polished sound.
    Well yes Blizzard is bit less 80s sounding than most...but that cause the 80s sound wasn't really around yet at that point!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheels Of Confusion View Post
    I dunno man, the Tony Martin albums sound pretty damn 80's to my ears (not that that's particularly a bad thing, of course)
    Well compare Ultimate Sin to Headless Cross and if you think the latter is more 80s sounding I'd recommend cleaning your ears!

    I think the closest Sabbath ever came with the 80s sound was Seventh Star, but then again that really was Tony's solo album so it was written quite differently from those that were actual Sabbath albums.

  16. #56

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    H&H was quite 70s sounding, in fact it reminds me a lot of Foreigners 1977 debut. Especially the vocal harmonies on the title track
    Last edited by OIM; 06-11-2014 at 10:59 AM.

  17. #57

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    Thanks for 'resurrecting' this thread; I forgot I'd voted and had to check page 1 (I voted Apples and Oranges). I still feel the same way, but if it was Blizzard vs Mob Rules I would vote for the latter.

    Ted
    Last edited by Ted Sallis; 06-11-2014 at 11:54 AM.

  18. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charger View Post
    Well yes Blizzard is bit less 80s sounding than most...but that cause the 80s sound wasn't really around yet at that point!



    Well compare Ultimate Sin to Headless Cross and if you think the latter is more 80s sounding I'd recommend cleaning your ears!

    I think the closest Sabbath ever came with the 80s sound was Seventh Star, but then again that really was Tony's solo album so it was written quite differently from those that were actual Sabbath albums.
    Headless Cross is full of 80's cheese production-wise, and songs like the title track and Kill In The Spirit Wordl have that clear 80's vibe going on.
    "The consequence of conscience/Is that you'll be left somewhere/Swinging in the air"-Ronnie James Dio (1942-2010) R.I.P. King Of Metal
    "Just take a look around you what do you see/Pain, suffering, and misery/It's not the way that the world was planned/It's a pity you don't understand" - Geezer Butler
    "If god is in heaven/How can this happen here" - Phil Lynott (1949-1986)

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by -E5150 StarWanderer- View Post
    Headless Cross is full of 80's cheese production-wise, and songs like the title track and Kill In The Spirit Wordl have that clear 80's vibe going on.
    I really can't hear that...I'll give you Kill In The Spirit World, but the title track 80s sounding...no way!

  20. #60
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    Blizzard Of Ozz, Ozzy Osbourne is what started it all for me, without Ozzy there would be no Black Sabbath for me.

    Blizzard Of Ozz, was a big part of my life during my formative years.
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
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  21. #61

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    I found a great post about all the Sabbath and Ozzy sales figures. http://www.ukmix.org/forums/viewtopi...e4f7&start=325

  22. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by -E5150 StarWanderer- View Post
    H&H easily, although I love Blizzard too. The last three tracks on it are just complete filler in my books
    Did you just call Revelation (Mother Earth) complete filler???
    Monty Python and the Holy Grail pic extravaganza! http://www.black-sabbath.com/vb/showthread.php?t=31523

  23. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charger View Post

    Well compare Ultimate Sin to Headless Cross and if you think the latter is more 80s sounding I'd recommend cleaning your ears!
    Of course, I wasn't making a case that Ozzy's albums don't have an 80s sound to them, but I disagree that Sabbath managed to escape the 80s sound.

  24. #64

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    Blizzard was a defining album for Ozzy. H&H was very good, but Blizzard had more great songs. Blizzard, Diary, Back In Black, Screaming for Vengeance... the 1980's sound was substandard.

  25. #65
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    For me, it's Blizzard easily. H&H, while great, isn't even my favorite Dio fronted album (that would be Mob Rules).

  26. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Icy Sun View Post
    Did you just call Revelation (Mother Earth) complete filler???
    Oh, forgot about that being on the tail end of the album. It's a nice tune, but the verse vocal melodies are really similar to ones in "She's Gone" which bothers me a bit. Okay, No Bone Movies and Steal Away (The Night) are complete filler
    "The consequence of conscience/Is that you'll be left somewhere/Swinging in the air"-Ronnie James Dio (1942-2010) R.I.P. King Of Metal
    "Just take a look around you what do you see/Pain, suffering, and misery/It's not the way that the world was planned/It's a pity you don't understand" - Geezer Butler
    "If god is in heaven/How can this happen here" - Phil Lynott (1949-1986)

  27. #67

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    The most significant, and most ADMIRABLE, aspect of both albums is that the musicians behind them simply weren't interested in rehashing the original Black Sabbath, to their credit. That, in my opinion, speaks volumes why they've stood the test of time so well. In short order, Black Sabbath Mach II and Ozzy Osbourne were musically firing on all cylinders entering the 1980's, for the better!

    However, I think overall 'Heaven And Hell' wins SLIGHTLY over 'Blizzard Of Ozz'. Overall it's a little better sonically, and better songwriting without question. Although for what it's worth, I'd GLADLY take 'Blizzard of Ozz' over 'Technical Ecstasy' AND 'Never Say Die' any day of the week ( ) !
    But that's another story and poll!

  28. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by A Sabbath Historian View Post
    The most significant, and most ADMIRABLE, aspect of both albums is that the musicians behind them simply weren't interested in rehashing the original Black Sabbath, to their credit. That, in my opinion, speaks volumes why they've stood the test of time so well. In short order, Black Sabbath Mach II and Ozzy Osbourne were musically firing on all cylinders entering the 1980's, for the better! However, I think overall 'Heaven And Hell' wins SLIGHTLY over 'Blizzard Of Ozz'. Overall it's a little better sonically, and better songwriting without question. Although for what it's worth, I'd GLADLY take 'Blizzard of Ozz' over 'Technical Ecstasy' AND 'Never Say Die' any day of the week ( ) ! But that's another story and poll!
    Whats your take on the writing and recording differential between the two albums? Blizzard was completed in a month, H&H over a year

    EDIT never mind. Looks like h&h only took 4 months
    Last edited by OIM; 06-12-2014 at 03:14 PM.

  29. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Sabbath Historian View Post
    I'd GLADLY take 'Blizzard of Ozz' over 'Technical Ecstasy' AND 'Never Say Die' any day of the week ( ) !
    But that's another story and poll!
    I wouldn't take Blizzard over Technical Ecstasy or Never Say Die!, I wouldn't take any album over the Ozzy era Sabbath or 13.

    Ozzy solo started it all for me, but Ozzy/Sabbath took over from the moment I heard the thunder and the rain and the tolling of the bell with Ozzy singing in despair, Oh no, noooo please God help me!!!!!
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
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  30. #70

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    OID, same here, it started with Blizzard.
    I was wandering snowblind in a blizzard when I first met the Wizard.

  31. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Sabman Cometh View Post
    OID, same here, it started with Blizzard.
    I was wandering snowblind in a blizzard when I first met the Wizard.
    You are a true poet Sabman, beautiful poetry to my ears.

    Nothing in this world will ever supersede the Ozzy/Sabbath era, nothing.
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
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  32. #72
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    I picked H&H over Blizzard. Though Blizzard has amazing guitar work by RR, there are a few songs i don't like where as every song on H&H is flawless imo. The reason it took so long to record H&H is because Tony was coming up with riffs but Ozzy didn't want to sing on any thing . He didn't show up at most of the writing sessions. They waited months for Ozzy to come around and ended up firing him. They did him a favor actually. Then Ozzy heard H&H and knew what he had to do to top it. The funny thing is RR hated playing the old Oz era sabbath but really liked H&H and the Mob Rules.

  33. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by scorpio 2000 View Post
    funny thing is RR hated playing the old Oz era sabbath but really liked H&H and the Mob Rules.
    Ive heard that story here before. Is there anything to back it up?

  34. #74

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    I've never heard that RR really liked H&H and or The Mob Rules, it's common knowledge he disliked Sabbath.
    I would think that if he did like those 2 albums Bob Daisley would have mentioned it in For Fact's Sake, which is definitely the definitive book on that period of the band and is endorsed by RR's brother.
    I haven't read R. Sarzo's book, maybe it goes into more personal detail about Randy?

  35. #75
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    Heaven And Hell is a true masterpiece in every sense of the word, not one song that I can say I don't like.

    Then again I've always said Dio never put out one bad album with Sabbath, not one!

    Blizzard is special though, that is the one album that got me hungry for more Ozzy, Diary Of A Madman just blew my head off with that shear Ozzy power, Speak Of The Devil, well my friends all I can say is that album started this life long love affair I call Black Sabbath, the rest is history!
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
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  36. #76

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    Ah yeah, I don't think Heaven and Hell is anything less than an awesome album either, I just think the Blizzard Of Ozz and Ozzy albums have more of a sort of universal appeal to them, especially lyrically.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheels Of Confusion View Post
    Ah yeah, I don't think Heaven and Hell is anything less than an awesome album either, I just think the Blizzard Of Ozz and Ozzy albums have more of a sort of universal appeal to them, especially lyrically.
    I do have to say (eventhough I like Ronnie's lyrics better) Bob did a great job with the lyrics for the first two Ozzy albums...some real gems there...not counting No Bone Movies and Steal Away The Night obviously.

  38. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by OIM View Post
    Ive heard that story here before. Is there anything to back it up?
    I wish i had a link to that article. I read it in either classic rock or mojo magazine about 5 or 6 years ago.

  39. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by scorpio 2000 View Post
    I wish i had a link to that article. I read it in either classic rock or mojo magazine about 5 or 6 years ago.
    Well it must be true then

  40. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by OIM View Post
    Well it must be true then
    He mentions it in more than one interview. This one from August 14, 1981

    Did you like Black Sabbath?

    I wasn't a big Sabbath fan, to be honest. They were great at what they did, Obviously they did it well, and made it huge. I respect that. Let's not go into it, but I wasn't a big fan. So anyway, I was kind of wary about auditioning because I'd never been to an audition. When I did come down, he said all these guys had Marshall stacks and Echoplexes. I brought a tiny practice amp. I started tuning up and he said, "You've got the gig. I didn't even get a chance to play, and I was in a recording studio with no musicians to jam with.

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