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  1. #1
    Non Insect Overlord Joe Siegler's Avatar
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    Default Forbidden Remix & Martin era Remasters

    I STRONGLY URGE YOU TO READ THE ENTIRE THREAD.
    NOT JUST THE FIRST MESSAGE.


    Given I keep seeing post after post about "Will the Martin albums be re-released", I've decided to create a definitive post, as I'm bloody sick and tired of seeing the same questions all over again ALL THE TIME. If you see someone asking the same question again, link them to this URL, plz. Thank you.

    Having said that, here's what I know as of the writing of this post.

    [1] The remaining four studio albums that have not been re-released by Universal / Sanctuary are going to be re-released. Born Again is technically not out as I write this, but it's scheduled to come out late May. Once Born Again is out, that leaves just four studio albums.

    [2] The "when" of this is not yet known, as officially no deal has been signed, but it will be before too long, I'd imagine. Tony Iommi's manager has said these albums "will be released in due course".

    [3] Remember, these albums are on IRS. All the others (Black Sabbath through Eternal Idol) were on the original 1970 Warner Brothers & Vertigo deals. Technically Dehumanizer was an IRS album too (at least outside of the US), but due to an odd licensing quirk, Universal was able to release that under the old deal. The different concurrent deals (Warner in US, Vertigo and later rights holders (Universal) later) are the reason these existing Deluxe Editions have never been released in the US properly. However, the IRS deal from 1989-1996 (minus Dehumanizer) was a world wide deal. It's possible that these Martin era albums could be released world wide. But as a deal has not been signed, how it will play out is unknown. I'll make sure and find out about that once the deal HAS been signed.

    [4] The five albums (four studio, one live) under the IRS deal are: Headless Cross, Tyr, Cross Purposes, Cross Purposes Live, & Forbidden. There was also a 1996 compilation album (The Sabbath Stones), but I'd be shocked if that got re-released.

    [5] Forbidden is the only one I'm aware of that's getting a remix. All the others will get remastered. Which too is a good thing, as Headless Cross's CD release lacks a lot of punch, and could use a sonic upgrade for sure. I don't know who is handling the remasters for these, but given that every other Black Sabbath record was handled either by Andy Pearce in the "Deluxe Edition" series, I'd say it's a safe bet he'll do the other ones, too. However, no facts to back that up. Anyway, here's some notes about the Forbidden remix from my Born Again news post:

    One good bit of news I can announce. I did inquire about the other album in Black Sabbath's history that's had a long standing "issue" with the original mix. That's 1995's Forbidden. While a contract hasn't yet been signed for the Tony Martin IRS albums, I'm told they will be released "in due course", but.. The fun thing is that Tony Iommi is doing a new mix of the Forbidden album (they do have the tapes for that) inbetween some other projects. Forbidden is an album that usually ranks near the bottom of people's favorite Sabbath album lists. While I don't pretend it's the best, it really deserves better than it's long standing reputation has placed it. I'll be VERY curious to see a new mix of that, and see what people might think of the songs then.

    [6] How Cross Purposes Live will be handled is unknown. It's original release format was a "box" set with a CD and a VHS tape in it. The video portion has been re-released a few times over the years on DVD, but none of the releases were authorized or had cooperation of Tony Iommi (the rights holder), so I don't consider them official releases. The proper release could be interesting. Now again, I have NO facts, this is PURE guesswork on my part. What would be interesting if the Cross Purposes & CP Live releases were combined into one large pack. Like a three disc pack where we get the studio album plus extras, the live album on a Disc, and the video portion on a third DVD disc. That would rock. But that's just my personal wishlist. No proper info on that yet.

    That's it. If you have any other questions about these re-releases, plz ask here. If it's something important enough, I'll address it in this post via further editing. Tkx.

    UPDATE:

    I posted some more detail on this stuff in another post. I liked the text I wrote, so I'm amending it in here.

    As I've said already, it's unknown how the Martin era albums will be re-released. Probably individually. REMEMBER.. Black Box & Rules of Hell were Warner Brothers. The Martin albums are IRS, and will be released by Universal, who has nothing to do with Warner Brothers.

    Read point 3 from this post:

    Remember, these albums are on IRS. All the others (Black Sabbath through Eternal Idol) were on the original 1970 Warner Brothers & Vertigo deals. Technically Dehumanizer was an IRS album too (at least outside of the US), but due to an odd licensing quirk, Universal was able to release that under the old deal. The different concurrent deals (Warner in US, Vertigo and later rights holders (Universal) later) are the reason these existing Deluxe Editions have never been released in the US properly. However, the IRS deal from 1989-1996 (minus Dehumanizer) was a world wide deal. It's possible that these Martin era albums could be released world wide. But as a deal has not been signed, how it will play out is unknown. I'll make sure and find out about that once the deal HAS been signed.
    Originally in 1970, Sabbath had two sets of masters. One for Warner Bros/North America, the other for everywhere else (then Vertigo, now Universal/Sanctuary). That contract lasted through Eternal Idol. Headless Cross through Sabbath Stones was on IRS. Dehumanizer was an exception due to some contractual weirdness to let Dio out of his "Dio band contract" to do Dehumanizer in the first place. Dehumanizer in the US in 1992 was published as Reprise, which was a subsidiary of Warner Brothers (I still have my CD from then). Everywhere else it was IRS. The 2008 Rules of Hell reissue was Reprise/Rhino (again Warner Bros). The 2011 Deluxe Edition was EMI/Universal, and bears the IRS logo on it.

    BIG IMPORTANT BIT HERE:

    • Black Box & Rules of Hell were on the Warner Remaster Series
    • Black Sabbath (album) through Eternal Idol were on the Universal master series.


    This is the primary reason why the Warner stuff was North America only, and why the Universal Deluxe Edition series was not released domestically in the US. One label cannot distribute in a market where another has rights to the same material like that.

    NOW.. IRS on the other hand was a world wide deal (again, save for Dehumanizer). The albums under that deal require a new record contract for reissue. I've been told this by the guy who has been heading up the releases for Universal, and by Tony's manager Ralph Baker. That deal has not yet been signed. I'm told it will be eventually, just not yet. I've been told Universal has requested world wide release rights for the IRS Martin albums, but again. NO CONTRACT YET, SO THERE ARE NO DETAILS TO BE HAD. It would be nice if they pull off world wide for that.

    First off, the usage of "Black Box 3" was always my personal speculation. I first coined that back in 2004, and have never proported it as fact. It was always my expectations on what would happen eventually. "Black Box" was the Ozzy era in the 70's. "Black Box 2" was the Rules of Hell box, which covered the Dio era. "Black Box 3" would have been what's left that Warner has rights to, which would have been just Born Again, Seventh Star, & Eternal Idol. My guess is Warner is completely uninterested in doing that. Something else to think about is going ALL THE WAY BACK to the 80's, Born Again has NEVER been released on CD domestically in the US. I'm also fairly sure Seventh Star hasn't been either, but I'm not as iron clad positive on that fact. I can't see Warner wanting to do a small box with just those three albums in it. They can't release the Martin stuff (save for Eternal Idol; see IRS stuff above).

    Having said all of that, it's not yet known how the Martin era albums will be distributed. BUT...

    Rules of Hell & Black Box matter NOT whether the Martin albums will be released as a box or not. Given the Universal/Sanctuary Deluxe Edition series (2009-2011) has been released individually so far, I suspect that will continue with the Martin albums, but again.. NO DETAILS YET.

    Why is all this stuff important regarding Warner / Vertigo / IRS / Universal / Sanctuary important? It's because it's the answer as to why people get pissed off and slag off the band saying they're going after a cash grab, and insulting Sabbath/Iommi for re-releasing stuff so many times. It's not them. It's the record labels doing that stuff. Iommi has some input, sure, but it's not like Tony is sitting around thinking "OK, how can I release these albums five times over and gouge people?" That kind of post pisses me off. If you want to post that way, go to Blabbermouth.

    P.S. NO DETAILS YET. Yes, I know I've said that several times already, but good Lord, you have to beat people over the head sometimes till they fucking get it. Even then they're likely to think I'm lying and go off and look for "the real story".

    P.S. 2 - NO DETAILS YET!!
    Last edited by Joe Siegler; 08-04-2012 at 11:41 PM.
    Joe Siegler, Webmaster - Black Sabbath Online
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  2. #2
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    I have 2 copies of the original IRS prints of Headless Cross and TYR already...they are so rare that I once I had the chance to get another copy, I seized the opportunity. Some of the most important albums of Black Sabbath and thus in all of heavy metal for me. Nevertheless, if and when a proper deluxe edition remaster of these albums (with original artwork & cover format) sees the light of day, I'll be one of the first in line...These 2 albums are so important for me personally, they have some of the best heavy metal I know of. For me they are fantastic albums of BLACK SABBATH.

    I also have the original IRS print of Cross Purposes which is the last great album of Black Sabbath. Surely I will buy a deluxe edition remaster if it ever sees the light of day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Siegler View Post
    Now again, I have NO facts, this is PURE guesswork on my part. What would be interesting if the Cross Purposes & CP Live releases were combined into one large pack. Like a three disc pack where we get the studio album plus extras, the live album on a Disc, and the video portion on a third DVD disc. That would rock. But that's just my personal wishlist.
    That kind of large 3-disc pack would immediately make me reserve my money for it, immediately. What a great idea, should be passed on to the powers that be...
    "He is the King of all kings, the keeper of light...He holds eternity's wings"

  3. #3

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    Joe - could you inquire as to the format of these? I.e., the Japanese/picture disk bonus tracks to be included on the same side as the normal release.

    It's a shame that What's the Use and Loser Gets it All (two of the better songs off their respective releases) were not released domestically.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Siegler View Post
    What would be interesting if the Cross Purposes & CP Live releases were combined into one large pack. Like a three disc pack where we get the studio album plus extras, the live album on a Disc, and the video portion on a third DVD disc. That would rock.
    THAT would certainly rock! What a great idea!

    Joe, maybe you could talk about this to the producers. Who knows what could happen?

  5. #5
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    I'm torn on how I'd like them to deal with Cross Purposes Live.
    The 3-disc mega-pack would be great, but... if there was enough other extra stuff for another disc with Cross Purposes (The ultimate but unlikely dream being the T. Martin Dehuminiser sessions.) I'd like to see CP Live given it's own release and a bit more recognition/respect.

    For my money it's Sabbath's best live album. Live at Last sounds like a bootleg (which it basically was) and, while Live Evil has it's moments. Dio never sounded right singing the Ozzy stuff as their vocal sounds and styles were opposite ends of the spectrum. (Tony, somewhere in the middle sounds great on both Ozzy and Dio era material.)

    And PLEASE could a re-release of "Forbidden" have a new album cover! I'm sure that thing is subliminally responsible for 60% of the bad feeling towards that actually very good album. (Even Plain Black with just "Black Sabbath - Forbidden" in silver would do if they don't have the budget.)

  6. #6

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    Tyr should get remixed. Everything is buried under the drums. I was just listening to it again and there's parts where you can barely hear the guitar. I think Forbidden sounds better. :p

    But it's so great to see that this is happening. Slowly but hey, Rome wasn't built in a day
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    First of all, Joe, thanks for the info you keep posting!

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Siegler View Post
    Technically Dehumanizer was an IRS album too (at least outside of the US), but due to an odd licensing quirk, Universal was able to release that under the old deal.
    The release of the deluxe Dehumanizer I ordered from Amazon.co.uk is an EMI release, having the IRS banner somewhere.



    With that in mind, I wouldn't be surprised if the rest of the IRS albums came out from EMI as well, with IRS being an EMI subsidiary at the time.

    But no matter which record company gets them out, I guess it will be the same team working on them (ie, Andy Pearce handling the remastering).

    As for the content itself, I guess the B-sides will be included, as was the case with The Eternal Idol. Beyond that, I'd love to see an official live recording from the Tyr era, but I wouldn't mind having the complete Cross Purposes Live concert.

    As for the Forbidden remix, I think the sound won't affect my opinion for that album that much, as to these ears Martin sings like he's tired, Iommi's riffing is rather boring and the general songwriting is subpar, compared to the Headless Cross/Tyr/Cross Purposes albums.

    Let's hope they don't take too long!
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  8. #8
    Non Insect Overlord Joe Siegler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raziel666 View Post
    The release of the deluxe Dehumanizer I ordered from Amazon.co.uk is an EMI release, having the IRS banner somewhere.



    With that in mind, I wouldn't be surprised if the rest of the IRS albums came out from EMI as well, with IRS being an EMI subsidiary at the time.
    Dehumanizer is a special case, as there was some negotiating to let Ronnie out of his Dio contract. That fiddly bit is what allowed Dehumanizer to come out. The other four require a new contract. Iommi's manager & the guy from Universal I'm dealing with have both told me the same thing.

    As for the content itself, I guess the B-sides will be included, as was the case with The Eternal Idol. Beyond that, I'd love to see an official live recording from the Tyr era, but I wouldn't mind having the complete Cross Purposes Live concert.
    I still have my VHS from 1995.

    Also, here's what I put forth to the label insofar as extras I could think of for the four remaining studio albums. If anyone has any other suggestions, let me know. I'll pass them on, assuming they're realistic. Before you post any suggestions, use the already released albums as a guideline as to what to ask for.

    BTW, I keep asking for the music videos, but to date, they've never included them.

    --------------

    HEADLESS CROSS:

    1) "Cloak & Dagger" - Was a B-Side to the "Headless Cross" single, and also appeared on a picture disc version of the HC album.
    2) Headless Cross Radio Edit: Shorter version of the song for radio use.
    3) An EPK that Iommi & Powell did to sort of "re-introduce" the band. It's video, though. Might be beyond the scope of what you're doing.
    4) Music Video: Headless Cross
    5) Russian Live tracks. There's an interesting story behind these that Neil Murray told awhile ago when I had asked him about Sabbath playing the old Shadows song "Apache" during the gigs. If you can get a hold of all this (was filmed on video, too) it'd be one hell of an extra! Here's the story:

    "We only performed Apache on the 2 shows that were recorded on one day in Moscow. It was supposed to be a throwaway track to be played while 24-track tapes were changed over for the live recording. From what I understood at the time, the recording would be under our control as far as mixing & editing goes. However, security guards prevented anyone from our crew entering the recording truck after the show, and instead of the band and record company taking possession of the master tapes, some Russian organisation (basically the Mafia) disappeared with them. I assume the concert was released in Russia etc, but I doubt if any money was ever paid to Black Sabbath. The Shadows, whose song Apache is, was a huge influence on myself, Tony Iommi, Cozy, Brian May and many other UK musicians of around my age – they were the biggest UK band before the Beatles came along."

    NOTE: The song "Call of the Wild" was originally called "Hero". The name was changed due to Ozzy putting out a song called Hero on his solo album the year before.

    NOTE 2: The song "When Death Calls" is the only time someone else other than Iommi ever plays a guitar piece on a Black Sabbath album. Brian May plays the guitar solo for that track.

    ----------

    TYR:

    1) There were two live tracks on the CD single version of "Feels Good to Me" that came from the Russia gigs before. Sabbath must have some sort of access to get that.
    2) "Feels Good to Me" Radio Edit: Shorter version of the song from the same CD single mentioned above.
    3) Another possibility is the version of "Jerusalem" that appears on Tony Martin's first solo album in 1992 (Back Where I Belong), but there might be some big rights issues using that. Be cool, though.
    4) Music Video: Feels Good to Me

    NOTE: On my site there are some notes from fans regarding the Norse mythology stuff connected with this album. Check it out: http://www.black-sabbath.com/discog/tyr.html

    ----------

    CROSS PURPOSES:

    1) "What's The Use" - Was on the Japanese release of the album. It's a bloody crime it's so obscure, it's the best song on the album. DON'T YOU DARE LEAVE THIS SONG OFF THE DELUXE EDITION!
    2) Music Video: The Hand that Rocks the Cradle
    3) The Cross Purposes Live CD as a second disc?
    4) The Cross Purposes Live Video as a third disc (DVD) extra?
    5) Live recordings from South America with Bill Ward?

    NOTE: There's a long standing rumour that Eddie Van Halen either co-wrote or played on the song "Evil Eye". If that really did happen, it would be nice to sort that out in the liner notes. There's been so many "authoritative" answers one way or the other, I don't think anyone knows what to believe about that anymore.

    -----------

    FORBIDDEN:

    Well, the new remix that Tony is doing is a huge deal here.

    1) "The Illusion of Power" Alternate Take. There's a version with Tony Martin singing the rap part that Ice-T does on the final version. That'd be a good extra.
    2) "Loser Gets it All" - Japanese only track, appeared a year later on the "Sabbath Stones" compilation.
    3) There has been a bootleg out there from this album in it's earliest stages that's just instrumental. All the songs are on there, but in earlier/demo form, and without any vocals.
    4) Music Video: Get a Grip

    NOTE: The song "The Illusion of Power" is the only time that someone other than the incumbent lead vocalist in the band sang on a Black Sabbath record. I don't count Iommi, Butler, or Ward who also sang at times on a Sabbath song in the 70's. That's not what I was getting at.

    NOTE 2: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE in the booklet for this album, you need to get Iommi or Nicholls or Martin to detail everyone who is in the artwork on the cover. Nobody's ever done that. It needs to be in there.
    Last edited by Joe Siegler; 05-11-2011 at 09:45 AM.
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  9. #9
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    Do you think Cross Purposes Live will be re-released with the missing song (Children of the Sea) and the full drum solo?
    Last edited by Metal Priest; 04-20-2011 at 04:59 AM.

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    Cross Purposes Live is also apparently missing Immaculate Deception.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SweetSymptom View Post
    Cross Purposes Live is also apparently missing Immaculate Deception.
    No. That song was already dropped from the set list by that time.

    I would also imagine that there is a reason why Children Of the Sea is not included, perhaps something went wrong with the sound...?

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Siegler View Post
    1) "What's The Use" - Was on the Japanese release of the album. It's a bloody crime it's so obscure, it's the best song on the album. DON'T YOU DARE LEAVE THIS SONG OFF THE DELUXE EDITION!
    Can you PLEASE make sure this b-side (along with Loser Gets it All) appear on the first cd, along with the rest of the domestic release

  13. #13

    Default Forbidden Bonus Disc

    Joe, they could put Karlshamn Rock Festival 1995 as a bonus disc on the Forbbiden Deluxe Edition, assuming they have access to the recording. It's Cozy Powell on drums!

    It is available with excellent sound quality on bootleg and it has a pretty interesting set list that would fill a whole CD. Also it would be much more interesting than the instrumental version of Forbidden cause it has no vocals.

    This was the set list that night:

    Ave Satani/Gates of Hell
    Heaven and Hell Intro
    Children of the Grave
    Neon Knights
    The Shining
    The Wizard
    War Pigs
    Headless Cross
    Guitar Solo/Rusty Angels
    Bass Solo/When Death Calls
    I Won't Cry For You
    The Mob Rules
    Guitar Intro/Black Sabbath
    Paranoid/Heaven and Hell reprise
    Iron Man
    Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
    Last edited by Mauricio; 04-19-2011 at 01:42 PM.

  14. #14
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    Just get me a Black Box II we were suppose to get before, but only this time IRS Martin albums with the bonus japanese tracks, Cloak And Dagger, CPL in full dvd and cd. Some kind of validity The Rules Of Hell got, but with a better touch (no lacking in any special stuff).
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  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Siegler View Post
    Also, here's what I put forth to the label insofar as extras I could think of for the four remaining studio albums. If anyone has any other suggestions, let me know. I'll pass them on, assuming they're realistic. Before you post any suggestions, use the already released albums as a guideline as to what to ask for.

    BTW, I keep asking for the music videos, but to date, they've never included them.
    If Wolverhampton '90 had been pro-rec it would've been, like, the ultimate add to a Deluxe Tyr
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mauricio View Post
    Joe, they could put Karlshamn Rock Festival 1995 as a bonus disc on the Forbbiden Deluxe Edition, assuming they have access to the recording. It's Cozy Powell on drums!

    It is available with excellent sound quality on bootleg and it has a pretty interesting set list that would fill a whole CD. Also it would be much more interesting than the instrumental version of Forbidden cause it has no vocals.

    This was the set list that night:

    Ave Satani/Gates of Hell
    Heaven and Hell Intro
    Children of the Grave
    Neon Knights
    The Shining
    The Wizard
    War Pigs
    Headless Cross
    Guitar Solo/Rusty Angels
    Bass Solo/When Death Calls
    I Won't Cry For You
    The Mob Rules
    Guitar Intro/Black Sabbath
    Paranoid/Heaven and Hell reprise
    Iron Man
    Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
    Killer set.

    This is off topic but looking at that set list made me think how great it would be if Iommi found a singer toured and just played a little of everything from his catalog.

    The amount of great material that band would have to choose from is unbelievable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Siegler View Post
    NOTE: The song "The Illusion of Power" is the only time that someone other than the incumbent lead vocalist in the band sang on a Black Sabbath record.
    *Dons Pedant hat*
    Apart from the two songs Bill sang and the whole band backing vox on "Hard Road"

  18. #18
    Non Insect Overlord Joe Siegler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Grant View Post
    *Dons Pedant hat*
    Apart from the two songs Bill sang and the whole band backing vox on "Hard Road"
    You know what I meant.
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    Same as the other deluxe editions. Thing I want more of is stuff never heard before. Loser gets it all n so forth is great but When I first bought sabbath cds I bought the imports with the extra tracks. In 1999 they were availablle more than now.
    Pain and Poison Roses

  20. #20

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    Joe, VERY grateful for your lists above and attention to minutia (which is *NOT* minutia to fans!).

    I very much doubt this is plausible, but - If I had a wish list for it, Cross Purposes and Cross Purposes Live would be two separate releases.

    To me, CPL is good enough and important enough to warrant its own release - An audio CD and a DVD. Cross Purposes would have the album, and extra tracks would either be tacked onto the end, or a second disk *could* be filled out with other stuff (I'm sure there was more than one show pro-recorded, or even instrumental stuff a'la Paranoid DE).

    I realize, however, that this is highly unlikely to happen - The label would likely say that people would confuse them because the titles are too similar or some such nonsense. I just couldn't keep the though of it to myself in good conscience, however.

    Looking forward to all of it.

    All the best,
    PAULIE

    PS - Speaking of implausible wish-list stuff, I would remix *all* of those albums so that they don't sound like they were recorded in the Grand Canyon. And as David86 said above, the guitar is buried in spots, etc.

    I know - Ain't gonna happen, but hey, a boy can dream.
    Last edited by Paulie 88; 04-22-2011 at 10:30 AM. Reason: Adding postscript

  21. #21

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    I'm just curious - why didn't Vol. 4 through NSD receive the deluxe treatment? There are tons of live material from those respective cds to put on a second disc (which seems what we are asking for here).

    Incidentally the sound quality of the NSD and TE remasters are terrible from what I've heard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aureustgo View Post
    I'm just curious - why didn't Vol. 4 through NSD receive the deluxe treatment? There are tons of live material from those respective cds to put on a second disc (which seems what we are asking for here).

    Incidentally the sound quality of the NSD and TE remasters are terrible from what I've heard.
    Source Tapes Not Available is the reason I heard
    Pain and Poison Roses

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    I do find it bit strange that they didn't make Never Say Die into a deluxe and add the Never Say Die video as a dvd...Granted the show isn't all that good, and Ozzy was so fucked up that he didn't know what he was doing and his singing was just awful...but it should have been included...but I suppose the source tapes weren't available either...

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by EDTRADER View Post
    Source Tapes Not Available is the reason I heard
    Well they have asbury park released as past lives. This would be a natural addition to the Sabotage disc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aureustgo View Post
    Incidentally the sound quality of the NSD and TE remasters are terrible from what I've heard.
    Yes, the newest remasters of TE and NSD sound quite bad. I have tried to get information, why (because other remasters are so fine), but haven't got

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aureustgo View Post
    Well they have asbury park released as past lives. This would be a natural addition to the Sabotage disc.
    I meant studio outakes
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    Quote Originally Posted by EDTRADER View Post
    Same as the other deluxe editions. Thing I want more of is stuff never heard before. Loser gets it all n so forth is great but When I first bought sabbath cds I bought the imports with the extra tracks. In 1999 they were availablle more than now.
    I go along with Edtrader. We need some really exciting unreleased stuff. 99% of the buyers already have these songs one way or another. Still cool to have all together within one release. Especially the Cross Purposes cd/dvd combo. That be pretty cool. Also it would be cool to have these albums released in the US but still ... Im not really jumping out of my chair.
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    Non Insect Overlord Joe Siegler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arjen View Post
    I go along with Edtrader. We need some really exciting unreleased stuff. 99% of the buyers already have these songs one way or another.
    No. THEY DO NOT. 99% of the buyers have never heard this stuff. I have said this before, and I'll say it again. The kind of fan who hangs out on forums posting messages like this is the MINORITY. The overwhelming vast majority of fans who buy these releases have never bought this stuff. Don't assume "your" opinion is the dominant one. It usually isn't. I've found fans throw around the "99% of fans" as a euphanism for "Well, I feel this way, and perhaps one or two of my friends do, so I'm going to assume everyone thinks this way!"

    Fans who are "in the know" are always the minority. Most fans are too casual, and have no idea / don't care about things like this.

    ---------- Post added at 10:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Paulie 88 View Post
    I very much doubt this is plausible, but - If I had a wish list for it, Cross Purposes and Cross Purposes Live would be two separate releases.
    Now I don't know what will happen yet, since contracts haven't been signed, but..

    Let's face it. These four albums will probably sell the least of any of the series. Not that I don't like the music. Long time fans of my site know I have a special affinity for the Tony Martin era. However, I'm no fool. I know it's not the most popular era of the band's history. I mean, look at the places they were playing then. When I saw them on the Forbidden tour in 1995, they played a place that held just 1,000. AND THEY DIDN'T SELL THAT OUT! Now yeah, I know all the "explanations", but the fact remains that had the latter Martin years had some success, we wouldn't have gotten Ozzfest 97, and all the stuff that came after it. There was a quote by Iommi (can't find the source at the moment) during Ozzfest 97 where he said "If I didn't need the money, I wouldn't be doing this".

    Anyway, the point here is that these Martin era albums aren't going to knock anyone's socks off sales wise. To that, I'm sure Universal will attempt to save some money in production costs by combining CP & CPL into a single package. Even with three discs in there, it'll be cheaper than two separate packages with however many discs it would take.

    I'm pretty convinced CP & CPL will be a single package, although again - they've given me no news on this. Honestly, I'm not holding anything back here, all I know is that they will all get released, but the "how" of it - don't know that yet.
    Last edited by Joe Siegler; 04-25-2011 at 10:25 AM.
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    Non Insect Overlord Joe Siegler's Avatar
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    I updated the first post here with more info on some weirdness regarding record deals.
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    I have the original version of the song Headless Cross on CD and also a 'radio edit' version which appeared on the 'rock aid armenia' CD. I am curious as to whether the video version may be released too (or maybe it already has) because it seems to be the same length as the version on the rock aid armenia cd but it is faster and is in a different key, at least it is on the sabbath history dvd: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90mZT...eature=related
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  31. #31
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    Does anyone know if Joe has any details yet?

    no but srsly, thx for the information, keep us updated :D:D
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  32. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Siegler View Post
    No. THEY DO NOT. 99% of the buyers have never heard this stuff. I have said this before, and I'll say it again. The kind of fan who hangs out on forums posting messages like this is the MINORITY. The overwhelming vast majority of fans who buy these releases have never bought this stuff. Don't assume "your" opinion is the dominant one. It usually isn't. I've found fans throw around the "99% of fans" as a euphanism for "Well, I feel this way, and perhaps one or two of my friends do, so I'm going to assume everyone thinks this way!"

    Fans who are "in the know" are always the minority. Most fans are too casual, and have no idea / don't care about things like this.[COLOR="silver"]
    That's kinda true, BUT here's another fact. There are people like me , who write on this forum and don't know a thing of their more obscure stuff. I'd rather wait an official release like that with polished sound, than waste my time on a bootleg of questionable quality. This is my opinion on this matter and i think there are a bunch of people that think the same way.

    Now i have only one request. PLEASE MAKE THOSE ALBUMS FILLED TO THE BRIM WITH OBSCURE/OFFICIALLY UNRELEASED STUFF. Not like those shitty Queen re-releases which you get an extra disc of 30 minutes, where in most cases those bonus songs could fit on Disc 1.
    A 2 CD + DVD for each of those releases would be wishful thinking ,eh?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Epitaph View Post
    There are people like me , who write on this forum and don't know a thing of their more obscure stuff. I'd rather wait an official release like that with polished sound, than waste my time on a bootleg of questionable quality. This is my opinion on this matter and i think there are a bunch of people that think the same way.
    I've never hunted for any bootlegs myself, not in the days of tape-trading (I was just a few years too young to even know of it, in the early 90's I just used to go to my friends and borrow originals & make C-cassette copies...or later on in the late 90's & early 2000's make some CD-Rs while waiting to have some money to buy real stuff...) nor in these digital times where basically everything is available to be downloaded from somewhere (I don't have the time nor the interest, I have so much original music in my hands so that it takes all my interest & time).

    During the last 5-8 years I've seen the opportunity of downloading entire discographies which include some (or even shitloads of) rarities & obscurities, out-takes, live bootlegs, you name it...but I simply don't have the time nor interest for these, I just want to buy physical releases. I like to listen to albums one by one & make my own collections & theme sets from the albums that I've bought. I need to know & feel that I really have the album that I love. However, I think it can be a nice surprise if someone finds a decent-sounding live bootleg of some 80's show for some theme night/listening session, I think it's a nice addition for the night's "show". But when it comes to actually having some bootlegs, rarities & obscurities for myself, I prefer to buy a physical release where these are included (mastered to good quality) rather than trying to find them as bootlegs with a varying quality from somewhere.

    So, whatever these new Deluxe Editions have as extras - live shows, bonus studio tracks/singles, studio out-takes, alternate mixes/versions, etc. - they're basically all new to me & nice additions to my collections. Live shows are the #1 extras that I appreciate, for me the original album & any live shows are the most important things in music.
    "He is the King of all kings, the keeper of light...He holds eternity's wings"

  34. #34

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    I agree. Never heard The Fallen or any of the number of other 'rarities' people talk about frequently. So I am truly looking forward to these new releases since I never had them before, other than a cassette of TYR which is long gone now.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by MachX View Post
    I agree. Never heard The Fallen or any of the number of other 'rarities' people talk about frequently. So I am truly looking forward to these new releases since I never had them before, other than a cassette of TYR which is long gone now.
    Still have a cassette of TYR

  36. #36
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    Any news of a contract signed for HC through Forbidden yet? I'm getting a bit antsy! LOL

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pink Led Rush Dio View Post
    Any news of a contract signed for HC through Forbidden yet? I'm getting a bit antsy! LOL
    As am I...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pink Led Rush Dio View Post
    Any news of a contract signed for HC through Forbidden yet? I'm getting a bit antsy! LOL
    I have all of these releases (except CP Live), but I am also very curious to see the extra material. Any live shows at all will mean a direct purchase from me, as long as there are SOME Martin-era tracks on there at all ^^. Cross Purposes Live will be a no-brainer for me no matter what extras it will include. Sure Martin doesn't sound as good on that tour as he did in 1989-1990 (which I consider his golden era) but it's still great music, and it is one of the few official sabbath releases I do not own (except box releases).

    EDIT: Since there are so few Forbidden vinyl copies out there, I would REALLY appreciate a 2 LP remixed Forbidden reissue. I would pay a lot for that. I have all the other Martin-era albums on vinyl already, again except CP live (well... duh...), any vinyl deluxe editions of them are no-brainers for me though, in some cases money doesn't matter haha ^^ I will just make sure I can afford them if they are released, end of story.
    Last edited by Josef_K; 07-07-2011 at 08:09 AM.
    "I am the crazy man who lives inside your head, but I think I'm breaking through the wall... You are the innocent convicted of the crime, no one was ever there to catch you when you fall" (1992)
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Siegler View Post
    No. THEY DO NOT. 99% of the buyers have never heard this stuff. I have said this before, and I'll say it again. The kind of fan who hangs out on forums posting messages like this is the MINORITY. The overwhelming vast majority of fans who buy these releases have never bought this stuff. Don't assume "your" opinion is the dominant one. It usually isn't. I've found fans throw around the "99% of fans" as a euphanism for "Well, I feel this way, and perhaps one or two of my friends do, so I'm going to assume everyone thinks this way!"

    Fans who are "in the know" are always the minority. Most fans are too casual, and have no idea / don't care about things like this.[COLOR="silver"]
    Only time I've ever heard anything off of Headless Cross or Forbidden has been through youtube recently. Forbidden was recorded when I was in elementary school and Headless Cross when I was about 3 y/o. Been out of print so long that I've never really had the opportunity to get a decent listen. I'm not one for stealing them online either, I think the musicians and producers and engineers, etc deserve the support. I managed to get Tyr and Cross Purposes for about $10 each from a seller on amazon. Headless Cross and Forbidden go for so much on amazon and ebay its ridiculous.

    I'm a huge Black Sabbath fan and still have never really had a good listen to these songs. From what I've heard on youtube they are criminally underrated albums. I really want these albums, but I'm not willing to pay $40+ for them. I'd gladly pay around $10-15 though, even $20 if they had some really cool extras. Hopefully they get around to re releasing them at some point, even if its just on itunes.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by MH1986 View Post
    Only time I've ever heard anything off of Headless Cross or Forbidden has been through youtube recently. Forbidden was recorded when I was in elementary school and Headless Cross when I was about 3 y/o. Been out of print so long that I've never really had the opportunity to get a decent listen. I'm not one for stealing them online either, I think the musicians and producers and engineers, etc deserve the support. I managed to get Tyr and Cross Purposes for about $10 each from a seller on amazon. Headless Cross and Forbidden go for so much on amazon and ebay its ridiculous.

    I'm a huge Black Sabbath fan and still have never really had a good listen to these songs. From what I've heard on youtube they are criminally underrated albums. I really want these albums, but I'm not willing to pay $40+ for them. I'd gladly pay around $10-15 though, even $20 if they had some really cool extras. Hopefully they get around to re releasing them at some point, even if its just on itunes.
    I at one point had all of the albums except for Forbidden. The other day I saw Forbidden on amazon.com for $10. Maybe you should check and see if it's still there. Personally though? Instead of spending any more money on these I'd hold out for the Deluxe Editions. Unless you don't plan on buying the Deluxe Editions. That's what I'm doing. I shelled out so much dough for these albums the last time I owned them, I'm gonna wait it out until they come out on Deluxe Edition format.
    I make the devil laugh and angels wail. Forever I will reside beyond the pale.

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