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  1. #1
    Axe fiend's Avatar
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    Default Bands re-recording their classics?

    Title says it all, what do you think? I few examples I have on my mind:

    Whitesnake - I could understand David wanting to update a few diamonds in the rough, but the remake of "Fool for your loving" was joke.

    Foreigner - just recently or are putting out a disc of re recording the classics. I heard one tune (Jukebox Hero), and they do a good job, but I can't help but think this is blasphemous is some manner.

    Quiet Riot - Not sure if it was an official release, or what it was. A demo to showcase their new singer or something? Made me cringe whatever it was.

    Quiet Riot II - Kevin re recording his vocals for "The Randy Rhoads Years". If you manage to get your ears on the originals, I think you'll agree that it was a worthwhile endeavor.

    Monster Magnet - The originals were recorded horribly (bad equipment, no money, was the style at the time etc.) and weren't classics anyway, so I think they came out ahead.

    Johnny Cash - Good updated versions of his classics, although it certainly wasn't his idea from what I understand, Just his new label wanting to cash in (No pun intended).

    Black Sabbath - I remember reading that Ronnie wanted to re record "Black Sabbath" just after joining the band. blasphemy? what do you think?

    Ozzy Osbourne - I think we all know where everyone stands on those re recordings.
    Last edited by Axe fiend; 09-09-2011 at 04:26 PM.
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    Whitesnake has done it a few times yes. I agree with you on the remake of "Fool for Your Loving"..... what a waste of Steve Vai - such a sterile, lifeless version.
    That Ronnie / Sabbath idea is an interesting one. I figure they did it the right way by doing it on the live album rather than in the studio.

    Others:
    Deep Purple - "Hush '88" ... basically a cover of a cover LOL. I dig it though.
    Iron Maiden - "Prowler '88" ... kind of pointless but still kind of neat.
    Testament - First Strike Still Deadly .... completely awesome. More fluid, well-practiced, and actually even heavier versions of stuff from the first two albums, with modern production to boot. The sound is CRUSHING.
    Anthrax - The Greater of Two Evils .... John Bush putting his stamp on material from all the albums before he joined. As far as the vocals go, some tracks work really well, others not so much, as he doesn't have the upper range of either of the other singers. The band sounded good -- well-practiced and groovy. This was kind of a mixed bag of results, but a few tunes like "Lone Justice" really kick my ass.

    I had a couple of other examples but have completely forgotten them.

  3. #3
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    KISS did this with their 2008 album 'Jigoku-Retsuden' which featured 15 re-recorded tracks, all of which I happen to like better than the originals. The CD was available for free with the purchase of 'Sonic Boom'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soul Sucker View Post
    KISS did this with their 2008 album 'Jigoku-Retsuden' which featured 15 re-recorded tracks, all of which I happen to like better than the originals. The CD was available for free with the purchase of 'Sonic Boom'
    Their original records where recorded poorly to say the least.
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    Axe fiend's Avatar
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    Almost forgot, Exodus re recording their album "Bonded By Blood" and released it as "Let Their Be Blood", updated the sound with awesome results.
    Completely forgot about the "Sonic Boom" bonus disc! Cheers!!
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    Franklin's Avatar
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    I like the idea so long as it's done in addition to the original album not as a replacement.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franklin View Post
    I like the idea so long as it's done in addition to the original album not as a replacement.
    Same with me. For example, if AC/DC re-recorded Bon Scott material with Brian I would be pretty pissed, but if a band re-recorded an album/song with the original members I wouldn't care that much (Unless it's a really terrible version on the original).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ochlocracy View Post
    Same with me. For example, if AC/DC re-recorded Bon Scott material with Brian I would be pretty pissed, but if a band re-recorded an album/song with the original members I wouldn't care that much (Unless it's a really terrible version on the original).
    Actually, I was thinking of cases where a band changed singers and the songs were rerecorded with the new singer. I could enjoy that. The key being, the original was left untouched so I could own both if I chose. The Blizzard of Ozz and Diary of a Madman rerecordings or, rather, replacements were an abomination.

    The example of rerecording albums with Brian Johnson singing Bon Scott songs wouldn't be of much interest to me because I prefer Bon Scott to Brian Johnson so much (especially now). But if, say, Iron Maiden rerecorded the first two albums (originally recorded with D'Anno on vocals) with Bruce Dickinson singing I'd be interested in that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franklin View Post
    Actually, I was thinking of cases where a band changed singers and the songs were rerecorded with the new singer. I could enjoy that. The key being, the original was left untouched so I could own both if I chose. The Blizzard of Ozz and Diary of a Madman rerecordings or, rather, replacements were an abomination.

    The example of rerecording albums with Brian Johnson singing Bon Scott songs wouldn't be of much interest to me because I prefer Bon Scott to Brian Johnson so much (especially now). But if, say, Iron Maiden rerecorded the first two albums (originally recorded with D'Anno on vocals) with Bruce Dickinson singing I'd be interested in that.
    Yeah. As long as the original is available there isn't a problem with me.
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  10. #10
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    Testament's re-recording of The Legacy is great, probably the best example - it's particularly interesting to hear Zetro singing on a couple of the tracks seeing as they were written for him to sing originally. But even this, despite the additional power and crunch, sounds a little sterile compared to the original.

    Can't think of many others that work out well, don't care at all for the re-recording of Bonded By Blood (the original was pretty 'meh' to me, but the new one's far worse, pretty pointless)

    Manowar re-recorded Battle Hymns and whilst it's decent in terms of performance it's a bit sterile and pointless when set against the original.

    Candlemass have done various re-recordings over the years, I love Messiah, but found the versions with him doing tunes from the first album pointless and lacking. Have they done any with Rob Lowe singing Messiah tunes? That'd strike me as pointless too.

    The Anthrax stuff has been so low on my playlist that I've actually forgotten what the Bush versions are like. Pointless.

    Dimmu Borgir re-did Stormblast... pointless.

    Overall I'd say it's a bit of a waste of time in general, shows a lack of new ideas. Generally most times it's done the word 'sterile' seems appropriate. Often the magic of an album is captured in its atmosphere, and this all to often simply disappears when re-recorded - all the original charm evaporates.

    @Franklin: I can think of nothing less appealing than Iron Maiden churning out the Di'Anno material with Bruce. The atmosphere would be lost and the songs wouldn't improve - fairly confident it would be sterility in the extreme!
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    As Maiden fans, I assume you all have already heard this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PRQGt4P6Ko

    Not official by any means, but a taste of "Sterility in the extreme"?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe fiend View Post
    Not official by any means, but a taste of "Sterility in the extreme"?
    That's an audition from 1981 - hardly the same thing as a band re-recording their classics some years later and releasing it as an album. That's actually current material to the band at the time of recording, performed with a hungry newb singer desperately wanting to impress. There is therefore a point to this performance, and that point is definitely NOT about re-recording classics, the context is important.

    For the record I'm fan enough of Maiden to have bought all their albums, though not fan enough to love them all - and I still maintain 100% that if Iron Maiden 2011 tried re-recording the Di'Anno era stuff it would come out like a boiled turd.
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    Well, Twisted Sister rerecorded Stay Hungry as Still Hungry.

    Deep Purple rerecorded Bloodsucker from In Rock on Abandon as Bludsucker

    Blue Oyster Cult did a whole album of songs rerecorded that was really quite good called Cult Classics.
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    I have mixed feelings on this - I would much rather have the bands record new music instead of revisiting songs they have already done before but that being said I have no problem if a band wants to re-record a classic LP as long as the original is still available. A forthcoming example of this is Girlschool - they are re-recording their classic LP Hit & Run to celebrate it's 30th anniversary - I am waiting to hear what the new versions will sound like but not sure how it will compare with the original since Kelly is gone & I always loved her vocals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totentanz View Post
    Candlemass have done various re-recordings over the years, I love Messiah, but found the versions with him doing tunes from the first album pointless and lacking. Have they done any with Rob Lowe singing Messiah tunes? That'd strike me as pointless too.
    Candlemass had two bonus tracks on King of the Grey Islands, with Rob Lowe singing two classic Messiah-era tracks--Solitude and At the Gallows End. I personally love them. Others might find them "pointless."

    Quote Originally Posted by Totentanz View Post
    @Franklin: I can think of nothing less appealing than Iron Maiden churning out the Di'Anno material with Bruce. The atmosphere would be lost and the songs wouldn't improve - fairly confident it would be sterility in the extreme!
    Perhaps it was a bad example. Or not. Depends on your point of view.
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    Just feel I should clarify it wasn't my intention to criticise specific bands, the ones I mentioned in my original post are among my favourites.

    It was my intention to get across that it seems "pointless" to me in principle. It just doesn't really work for me - it's a quick and easy way for a band to generate additional material for bonus tracks or b-sides, I can see that (maybe a bit lazy though?).

    I really see no point in re-doing whole albums for new release - that's my main gripe. In general I am sceptical of such releases based upon my experience of the ones I've heard.

    To illustrate my view without aiming it at anyone else's favourite band: I love Coroner more than is sensible and they've recently reunited. If they suddenly announced they were going to re-record Punishment For Decadence, one of my all-time favourite albums... I'd be gutted and feel cheated. "Where's the new stuff?! Don't waste time on that, it's pointless! gimme new stuff!!" etc. I'd happily aim accusations such as these at my fave band.
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    I agree. Classic albums should not be "re-recorded" for the sake of rerecording them when the point is simply to fleece fans of hard-earned money.
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    I sort of like some of the Maiden 88 results. Bruce singing the Dianno classics won't ever undercut the original recordings. It's not like those replaced the Dianno albums, like the Sharon Osbourne move. The 88 recordings are just a different presentation.

    As for other bands' attempts many times they don't own the rights to the master recording. As the case in Testament's First Strike release. They wanted to put out a best of but Atlantic owned their Megaforce catalog and would have charged testament fees to use the recordings which would have made a compilation useless for the bands interests. So the re-do was a cash grab. But they had no other real way to recoup some money from their past releases. Interestingly, Atlantic did release a Testament best of comp about a year & 1/2 before First Strike came out.

    This is the same case for Twisted Sister(Another band at the mercy of Atlantic at one time). I liked the fact that Twisted dusted off classic songs that were never finished from Stay Hungry era and added those to the album. Although it was substandard to the songs that made the original album. But they weren't that bad. Again it doesn't negate the original. If anything it gives the band a little pay bump. These releases wont stay on the radar for long. And the band deserve to earn income from their work. Don't like it? Don't buy it.

    I'd add Megadeth's Rust In Peace Live to this category, to a certain extent. When compared to the studio this is so inferior it's a downright embarrassment. Daves voice is at its all-time worst.
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    Sometimes re-recording works perfectly, like with Iced Earth when they re-did the Something Wicked Trilogy with Tim...that was awesome and better than the originals and not just because Tim's awesome vocal preformance, but musically as well. Also the two Priest classics Tim redid for the Demolition were pretty darn awesome, especially Rapid Fire that was better than the original.

    Same thing goes with Candlemass redoing songs like Solitude, Demons Gate and At The Gallows End with Rob Lowe, who is 10 times the singer Messiah ever was...although I do like the originals with Johan Lšngqvist, but clearly Rob is much more talented singer as well.

    Re-doing full albums though is kind of pointless...or replacing some instruments...that is just really bloody stupid and should never be done, ever.

    But doing some tracks over with a new (And better) singer is okay in my books.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charger View Post
    But doing some tracks over with a new (And better) singer is okay in my books.
    Personally I prefer Langquist, Marcolin, Flodkvist & even Vikstrom over Lowe. I've realised I have the Lowe versions of the early tunes as bonus tracks... and giving them a spin I can see they may be of interest to some (particularly those like you who prefer him), but for me they don't come anywhere near the originals. I'd say that the fact I'd forgotten I even own these versions shows how much they mean to me.

    It's not just about the merits of the singer, though - Lowe's clearly talented, but the whole thing lacks the atmosphere of the originals. For balance I'd say the same was true of Messiah doing Langquist tunes, and it wasn't just about Messiah, it was that the tone and atmosphere of Klas Bergwall's session guitar was missing that got to me most.
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    Totally forgot about "Bludsucker". That was pretty cool, it sounded like a fun jam-out.
    I remembered one of the examples I forgot: Iced Earth - Days of Purgatory. Iced Earth covering their earlier material with then-new vocalist Matt Barlow. I liked this album a lot, the band sounds more well-practiced, the production is more full, and of course Barlow is Barlow, adding vocal range to the songs that wasn't there before; some of the originals were really rough vocally, and he adds some actual singing and some high-pitched screaming, to make the songs more "musical" than they used to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Totentanz View Post
    Manowar re-recorded Battle Hymns and whilst it's decent in terms of performance it's a bit sterile and pointless when set against the original.
    they promissed a new CD with original material, it seems they were unable to come up with anything, so they did that instead. What a shame! And it's more than "a bit" sterile and pointless, it's a clear cut rip-off disguising their incapability of writing a full length CD.

    I say this not in psite of being a Manowar fan, but because of that - I was really disappointed with them. On the other hand, I saw them live this year, and they kicked ass as usual.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Totentanz View Post
    Personally I prefer Langquist, Marcolin, Flodkvist & even Vikstrom over Lowe. I've realised I have the Lowe versions of the early tunes as bonus tracks... and giving them a spin I can see they may be of interest to some (particularly those like you who prefer him), but for me they don't come anywhere near the originals. I'd say that the fact I'd forgotten I even own these versions shows how much they mean to me.

    It's not just about the merits of the singer, though - Lowe's clearly talented, but the whole thing lacks the atmosphere of the originals. For balance I'd say the same was true of Messiah doing Langquist tunes, and it wasn't just about Messiah, it was that the tone and atmosphere of Klas Bergwall's session guitar was missing that got to me most.
    Agree on Lowe. He is a great singer but he does not fit at all in Candlemass (and live it is almost like deformity comedy...). As far as Messiah doing tracks from the first record, I believed it to be just like you write here Totentanz. But then I revisited the old live albums and... Messiah kills! He was a big part of the soul and spirit in Candlemass. Perhaps he wouldn-t be as fitting in the new more generic heavy metal oriented Candlemass but as far as the classics go, he is the Candlemass singer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KHH View Post
    Messiah kills! He was a big part of the soul and spirit in Candlemass. Perhaps he wouldn-t be as fitting in the new more generic heavy metal oriented Candlemass but as far as the classics go, he is the Candlemass singer.
    Totally agree with you about Messiah, I cherish his contributions in the band above all others - I was only talking specifically about the studio versions of him doing Langquist era material, which in my collection only amounts to Solitude and Crystal Ball from the Samarithan 12" and Under The Oak from Tales Of Creation. If I could have 3 brand new tracks with Messiah instead of these covers, I'd take 'em.

    But he always kicked ass live, no questions there at all. And the original material he did with them was their best IMO, both the classic era and also the stunning reunion album.
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    I don't see any use in re-recording classic albums in it's entirety. I don't mind if a band decides to re-record some individual classic tracks, but a whole album is too much. Well, maybe it could be acceptable if the album was a victim of really low production values, and I mean lower then the ones of Born Again First of all, these re-recordings will most certainly be mangled by fans who are so accustomed to the original recording. Ok, it might bring money to the artist but at the same time they probably manage to alienate some hardcore fans.

    And if an artist decides to re-record an album, they should just give it a more modern sound with maybe some slight changes. If a band decides to re-arrange the songs the result is usually nothing short of a disaster. One of my favorite bands, Tarot did just this with their classic debut album "The Spell Of Iron". The re-recordings were more than unsuccesful. Well, not all of them. I actually enjoyed the remake of "Wings Of Darkness". But counting that track out, they had tampered too much with the songs. The nadir was the new version of Dancing On The Wire, where they had completely lost the feel of the original song. The original's fantastic intro is turned into a messy entity that has a strong nu-metal vibe and the catchy chorus has lost all of it's power.

    I appreciate their courage to make such drastic changes to an album that is a fan favorite and considered a landmark in Finnish metal, but the result is so bad that it doesn't exactly justify their deed. I do understand their desire to make this move, because Tarot now has two lead vocalists with Salmela joining Hietala. But I still think it's pretty much pissing into the fans' cereals. I think it's enough that they re-arrange the vocal parts for the live situations.
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    I have never met a re-recording I did like. Move on I say, make something better. Now reworking a song is a different story. Take Alice Cooper's "Elected", a reworking of their song "Reflected". They kept some ideas, the "ected" part, the verse melody, and intro riff (which becomes the chorus), but the whole idea of the song is different. Or take Kiss reworking the song "She" from their Wicked Lester days, making it a heavier, balls out affair. In both of those cases the earlier recording was barely known though, and that helps as well.

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    Krokus redoing "Backseat Rock N Roll" also comes to mind, It'd be great if they did a whole album of redux IMO.
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    I like it. Not as replacement, but for the curiosity of it.

    It's a bit like listening to them live through the years....singer sounding rougher...keyboards getting louder...oops, dropped the key...ooh, they're using VST now and now everything sounds like album....Singer can't handle it anymore but still trying...new drummer...dropped the key again...

    It's fascinating to compare, especially studio takes because there you can really tell how far they are from the lightning in a bottle.

    You listen once or twice and always go back to the originals unless the whole arrangement was changed, like Page/Plant, and you like them both, you keep both in your playlist.

    Journey did this with their fantastic singer, and now I love either version and sometimes have to double check to tell you which one I'm listening to.

    Blondie just did this, everything in original key and it's pretty damned good considering she's 70+. You can hear dentures and the change in hormones, but the notes are still there and occasionally those things drop away and just leave greatness and it gives you chills.

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    I get the artists idea if he/she/they think there was something lost in the origial recording, something they wanted but didn't manage to capture. But from a fans point of view i don't see the point. If they're not radically different.

    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Boy View Post
    I have never met a re-recording I did like. Move on I say, make something better. Now reworking a song is a different story. Take Alice Cooper's "Elected", a reworking of their song "Reflected". They kept some ideas, the "ected" part, the verse melody, and intro riff (which becomes the chorus), but the whole idea of the song is different. Or take Kiss reworking the song "She" from their Wicked Lester days, making it a heavier, balls out affair. In both of those cases the earlier recording was barely known though, and that helps as well.
    Reflected kicks Electeds ass so much it doesn't even need feets. (WTF?)
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    [QUOTE=Axe fiend;269346]Title says it all, what do you think? I few examples I have on my mind:

    Whitesnake - I could understand David wanting to update a few diamonds in the rough, but the remake of "Fool for your loving" was joke.






    agree Fool For Your Loving the original was far superior even if the guitarist Mickey Moody(?) was no John Sykes in terms of ability but his feel was so much more soulful...
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    I recall some songs where the song remained unchanged but keyboards were added to make them more radio friendly. Whitesnake, Def Leppard and Edgar Winter to name a few. Bad Idea IMHO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by turch118 View Post
    I recall some songs where the song remained unchanged but keyboards were added to make them more radio friendly. Whitesnake, Def Leppard and Edgar Winter to name a few. Bad Idea IMHO.
    yea the Whitesnake remake of Fool For. Your Lovin'... was actually the "newer" Whitesnake band not the Deep Purple one with Lord and Paice... agree bad idea.
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    W.A.S.P. are in the studio now putting the finishing touches to a rerecording of their classic The Crimson Idol album. Why Blackie Lawless feels the need I just don't know...

    Classics albeit albums or songs should be left alone.

  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe fiend View Post
    Almost forgot, Exodus re recording their album "Bonded By Blood" and released it as "Let Their Be Blood", updated the sound with awesome results.
    I was going to post about LTBB. I agree about the results. You did spell 'There' wrong though.

    I did just think of one of my own - Doin' Allright. Originally done by Smile, Brian May and Roger Taylor's band, Queen redid the song on their debut album. I quite like both versions.

    Ted

  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Underdog View Post
    Reflected kicks Electeds ass so much it doesn't even need feets. (WTF?)
    Sorry, but I disagree. I consider Elected an epic reworking of Reflected.

    Ted

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Sallis View Post
    Sorry, but I disagree. I consider Elected an epic reworking of Reflected.

    Ted
    You're allowed to be wrong

    The happy-schizo pop of the line Look upstanding with your head held high, then the reassurance that you'll be reflected, before the band burst out in a "MC5 with Keith Moon"-ish chaos-rock for a few beats before going back. And the upgoing energetic pop-rock chorus enhanced and ruined by the out of time blues noodling. Beats the uninspired run-off-the-mill album-filler that is Elected...

    Very rarely worry utmost constantly.

    About Queen; Seven Seas Of Rhye is a good example of a tune being built upon, but both versions being good.

    Queen have several uses of their own samples in other songs, in this case the Piano intro to SSoR appears on It's a Beautiful Day (Made In Heaven).
    Last edited by Billy Underdog; 06-07-2017 at 11:04 AM.
    95% of everything i say is pure bullshit just for the fun of it. The other 95% is damn serious!
    Til Šrs ok friūar ok forn siūr

  37. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Underdog View Post
    You're allowed to be wrong

    The happy-schizo pop of the line Look upstanding with your head held high, then the reassurance that you'll be reflected, before the band burst out in a "MC5 with Keith Moon"-ish chaos-rock for a few beats before going back. And the upgoing energetic pop-rock chorus enhanced and ruined by the out of time blues noodling. Beats the uninspired run-off-the-mill album-filler that is Elected...

    Very rarely worry utmost constantly.

    About Queen; Seven Seas Of Rhye is a good example of a tune being built upon, but both versions being good.

    Queen have several uses of their own samples in other songs, in this case the Piano intro to SSoR appears on It's a Beautiful Day (Made In Heaven).
    Actually I don't believe being wrong is allowed. I stand by my statement re. Reflected vs Elected. As for your uninspired run-of-the-mill album-filler appraisal of Elected, I would accept that as a April Fool's Day joke on 1 date of the year.

    As for SSOR by Queen, thanks for the reminder about that one. I like both versions too. As for It's a Beautiful Day, I don't believe I've heard that song yet as I'm mostly only into 70's-era Queen.

    Ted

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Sallis View Post
    Actually I don't believe being wrong is allowed. I stand by my statement re. Reflected vs Elected.
    Well, then you're breaking your own laws ;-)
    95% of everything i say is pure bullshit just for the fun of it. The other 95% is damn serious!
    Til Šrs ok friūar ok forn siūr

  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Underdog View Post
    Well, then you're breaking your own laws ;-)
    ...or I'm not wrong.

    Ted

  40. #40
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    Soo, Whitesnake then...
    95% of everything i say is pure bullshit just for the fun of it. The other 95% is damn serious!
    Til Šrs ok friūar ok forn siūr

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