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  1. #1
    LouiST's Avatar
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    Default Without Sabbath = no heavy metal?

    Recently I've been thinking about this. Many metalheads including me always hail Black Sabbath a the true creator of heavy metal, and without Sabbath there would not be metal.

    But, is this really the case? Before the release of the first Sabbath album, there had been a lot of heavy bands at the time that sound extremely close to or almost as heavy as Sabbath.(eg. Deep Purple/Blue Cheer etc.) One of the main difference between Sabbath and other early heavy rock/proto-metal bands is probably the lyrics. Sabbath's at the time is clearly more sinister, darker than the others(eg. explicit criticism of war, reference to evil etc.). But, without Sabbath, is it possible for other bands to discover such themes and combine them with the heavy sound?
    Last edited by LouiST; 09-19-2012 at 01:45 AM.
    Do you hear the thunder raging in the sky?
    Premonition of a shattered world that抯 gonna die.
    In the age of reason, how do we survive?
    The protocols of evil ravaging so many lives?

  2. #2

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    I think it could've happened. I can name a couple prog rock bands from the late 60s/early 70s that had darker lyrics, those being Coven and Black Widow. I think it's plausible that eventually someone would take the musical stylings of Blue Cheer, Iron Butterfly, Led Zeppelin, and Deep Purple and combine them with the lyrical stylings of Coven and Black Widow.
    Monty Python and the Holy Grail pic extravaganza! http://www.black-sabbath.com/vb/showthread.php?t=31523

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    Deep Purple and the others were not remotely metal. Heavy blues rock is just blues played harder. It didn't have the feel and the kind of melodies in metal.
    ^ This, although Hard Lovin' Man is pretty damn close of being a very definiton of a metal song.

    Few heavy riffs don't make song, or a band for that matter, Heavy Metal. I consider "Black Sabbath" to be the first pure metal song, and N.I.B. and maybe The Wizard are without a doubt metal songs as well.

    But I'd say Paranoid was the first "pure" metal album ever, because the debut had numerous blues rock cuts in addition to the heavy material.
    "The consequence of conscience/Is that you'll be left somewhere/Swinging in the air"-Ronnie James Dio (1942-2010) R.I.P. King Of Metal
    "Just take a look around you what do you see/Pain, suffering, and misery/It's not the way that the world was planned/It's a pity you don't understand" - Geezer Butler
    "If god is in heaven/How can this happen here" - Phil Lynott (1949-1986)

  4. #4
    nunoni's Avatar
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    one way or the other, we'd have gotten heavy music akin to metal. It would have been different though.

  5. #5
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    No disrespect to Sabbath, but someone probably would have made the connection. I doubt that the genre would be as good if they didn't though.
    Well I don抰 want no preacher telling me about the god in the sky
    No I don抰 want no one to tell me where I抦 gonna go when I die
    I wanna live my life, I don抰 want people telling me what to do
    I just believe in myself, 抍ause no one else is true

  6. #6
    LouiST's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ochlocracy View Post
    No disrespect to Sabbath, but someone probably would have made the connection. I doubt that the genre would be as good if they didn't though.
    IMO even if the lyrical themes aren't the same there would still be a trend of the sound getting heavier and heavier. Then it may just be a matter of time that bands discover the magic of connecting music to such themes.
    Do you hear the thunder raging in the sky?
    Premonition of a shattered world that抯 gonna die.
    In the age of reason, how do we survive?
    The protocols of evil ravaging so many lives?

  7. #7
    Ady's Avatar
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    This was recorded in 1969, so yes.

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  8. #8
    Ady's Avatar
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    Then there's the intro to this, also from '69.

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  9. #9
    Ady's Avatar
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    I think Tommy Vance said it best.

    "No, Black Sabbath certainly did not invent heavy metal... but, my god they capitalised on it! They invented their own sound without a doubt."
    Last edited by Ady; 09-22-2012 at 10:33 AM.
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    As people have said, it would have come about, but in a different way, and not as soon.

  11. #11
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    Race With The Devil by Gun has enough about it to only be a micro-leap to metal. Bit of a gallop, devil-theme, overblown, guitars leading etc. There's no way someone wasn't gonna take that further, and it was recorded in 1968. Although it actually seems closer to late 70s metal than what came earlier in the decade.

    Edit: here's the song

    Last edited by Totentanz; 09-29-2012 at 04:05 AM.
    I don't need wings to reach the sky
    And I don't need hands to hold you tight...

    ~~~ Coroner ~~~

  12. #12
    Ady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totentanz View Post
    Race With The Devil by Gun has enough about it to only be a micro-leap to metal. Bit of a gallop, devil-theme, overblown, guitars leading etc. There's no way someone wasn't gonna take that further, and it was recorded in 1968. Although it actually seems closer to late 70s metal than what came earlier in the decade.
    I nearly posted that myself. There's also this one from the same album.

    >>TECHNICI腘S 諪 SP臗E
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  13. #13
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    Living in Germany means just about every Youtube video y'all have posted here is blocked for me. But one thing I've noticed about the songs posted: I've never heard of any of them! Black Sabbath made heavy, scary shit popular, so that's kind of a big deal. But as for what would have happened, nobody knows.

  14. #14

  15. #15
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    Black Sabbath was without a doubt the heaviest band in 1970. There is no denying that.

    They invented a whole new sound which later became known as Heavy Metal...so...

    What would have happened if there hadn't been Sabbath? Thank god we don't know that!!

    But seriously, I'm sure heavy metal would have come around...I'm thinking about bands like Judas Priest and later on Iron Maiden would have come around even if Sabbath hadn't been there paving the way.


    Oh and the main difference with bands like Coven and Black Widow was although lyrically they were even more darker and occult based than Sabbath ever was, musically they were rock and even folk oriented bands...though very good.

  16. #16
    Ady's Avatar
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    Here's another Gun track from their 2nd album "Gun Sight", released in 1969.

    Last edited by Ady; 03-30-2019 at 11:17 PM.
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  18. #17
    OzzyIsDio's Avatar
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    Great stuff Ady, thanks for posting.
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
    ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

  19. #18
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    they created the music genre we all know as heavy metal period!
    "Music is so sacred to me that I can抰 hear wishy-washy nonsense just played for the sake of selling records."
    R. Blackmore

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wicked Cricket View Post
    they created the music genre we all know as heavy metal period!
    Yes, the Godfathers of Metal!
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
    ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

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    Something similar would have come about without Sabbath, but it wouldn't have been as we know it.

  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SweetSymptom View Post
    Something similar would have come about without Sabbath, but it wouldn't have been as we know it.
    Most certainly, there was Proto-Metal before Sabbath.
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
    ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

  23. #22
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    nothing before sabbath sounds metal, so id say yeah sabbath were the first
    Black metal > Whatever you like, sorry. *shrugs*

  24. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ady View Post
    Here's another Gun track from their 2nd album "Gun Sight", released in 1969.

    What a time machine, man. This song, and this thread.
    Do you hear the thunder raging in the sky?
    Premonition of a shattered world that抯 gonna die.
    In the age of reason, how do we survive?
    The protocols of evil ravaging so many lives?

  25. #24
    OzzyIsDio's Avatar
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    Without Sabbath = No good music.
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
    ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

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