Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 42
  1. #1
    Renaissance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,042

    Default Never Say Die vs Heaven and Hell

    Ozzy's last vs Dio's first?
    Who's is better?

  2. #2
    8bit Fighter's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    6,381

    Default Re: Never Say Die vs Heaven and Hell

    Heaven And Hell, but NSD! IS very underrated as well.
    "Even with so much bad blood between us... It's funny... Now that I'm actually face to face with him again... The hatred is gone. All I feel is a deep sense of longing. And pity. Did Zero really hate me? Or... Did he fear me?" - Big Boss

  3. #3

    Default Re: Never Say Die vs Heaven and Hell

    Heaven and Hell, no question, but they've released worse albums than NSD.
    -rar

  4. #4
    ComputerGod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    1,512

    Default Re: Never Say Die vs Heaven and Hell

    Heaven and Hell,but NSD is still very good.

  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    City:Jacareí State:São Paulo Country:Brasil
    Posts
    799

    Default Re: Never Say Die vs Heaven and Hell

    Never Say Die! without a doubt. By the way, i gave the single vote for it.

  6. #6
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Monroe , N.J
    Posts
    3,206

    Default Re: Never Say Die vs Heaven and Hell

    H&H but NSD is great !

  7. #7
    Renaissance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,042

    Default Re: Never Say Die vs Heaven and Hell

    Originally Posted By: ComputerGod Heaven and Hell,but NSD is still very good.
    BOOO!!!

  8. #8
    turntostone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    The Banks of the Juniata River
    Posts
    937

    Default Re: Never Say Die vs Heaven and Hell

    Originally Posted By: Renaissance
    Originally Posted By: ComputerGod Heaven and Hell,but NSD is still very good.
    BOOO!!!
    I agree with most posters before. Heaven and Hell is better, but I have a soft spot for Never Say Die!. Very polished sound on good songs- pretty consistent effort.

    You'll probably need to explain your "BOOO!!!".

  9. #9

    Default Re: Never Say Die vs Heaven and Hell

    I love NSD so much, this is an easy vote for me. NSD!

  10. #10
    Rover's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    St. Petersburg, Russia
    Posts
    3,327

    Default Re: Never Say Die vs Heaven and Hell

    Originally Posted By: 62_SG I love NSD so much, this is an easy vote for me. NSD!
    I'm not sure... have you ever heard H&H?

    It's H&H for me. It's the second best Sabbath album (IMO) and a source of four (!) timeless classic Sabbath songs (fact). Only Paranoid rivals it as the classic Sabbath album.

    NSD is a rather interesting - but sloppy and inconsistent - experimental album. "Had its moments" is the best description most people would find for NSD, and thankfully the band did not continue this direction, as it would have been a steep downward spiral to oblivion.

    Before someone tries to pull that "Rover hates Ozzy" card again, I would have said what I said above no matter who would have been the singer on NSD. Fucking period.
    "There's only one Black Sabbath... I like to call him Tony Iommi" - racer

  11. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    City:Jacareí State:São Paulo Country:Brasil
    Posts
    799

    Default Re: Never Say Die vs Heaven and Hell

    Who cares? Each mind has its own sentence and there's no need to give excuses for what one think.

    I think Never Say Die! is the best Black Sabbath album (not the most important) and i'm walking crapping for those who do not agreee with me.

    And anyways, i love ALL ERAS of Black Sabbath and pointing out the weaker moments doesn't make me more or less fan than everybdy else. Heavan And Hell is a must have! One of the greatest albums in the history of heavy metal.

    Cheers and VIVA BLACK SABBATH FOREVA'!

  12. #12
    Renaissance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,042

    Default Re: Never Say Die vs Heaven and Hell

    I like Never Say Die...but I love Heaven and Hell-the best Sabbath album!!!

  13. #13
    Renaissance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,042

    Default Re: Never Say Die vs Heaven and Hell

    I like Never Say Die...but I love Heaven and Hell-the best Sabbath album!!!

  14. #14

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    42

    Default Re: Never Say Die vs Heaven and Hell

    If you have to compare apples to oranges, then I think H & H overall is a better record. Wishing Well really bites. The same can be said for Air Dance and Swinging the Chain. I think Junior's Eyes has such an amazing bass line and very melodic chorus. Johnny Blade is such an amazing tune. Wouldn't all of us just have a coronary if we were ever to get our hands on lives of those two.

  15. #15

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    42

    Default Re: Never Say Die vs Heaven and Hell

    If you have to compare apples to oranges, then I think H & H overall is a better record. Wishing Well really bites. The same can be said for Air Dance and Swinging the Chain. I think Junior's Eyes has such an amazing bass line and very melodic chorus. Johnny Blade is such an amazing tune. Wouldn't all of us just have a coronary if we were ever to get our hands on lives of those two.

  16. #16
    Petoria000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    2,787

    Default Re: Never Say Die vs Heaven and Hell

    Upon first hearing Never Say Die! I hated it. Tony's treble-y guitar tone plus bland songs did not help either. Over time a few of the songs grew on me, and now I don't think its so bad. Air Dance is a true gem.

    I still can't stand Over To You and A Hard Road however.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Never Say Die vs Heaven and Hell

    I love Tony's tone on NSD. So slick.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Never Say Die vs Heaven and Hell

    I love Tony's tone on NSD. So slick.

  19. #19
    MarcStitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Colorado, United States
    Posts
    3,992

    Default Re: Never Say Die vs Heaven and Hell

    NEVER SAY DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Vic always says 'killing is my business, and business is good'.. He can play the symphony of destruction, after all the worlds needs a hero because the system has failed. Vic is on the killing road to Hangar 18, and he will Take No Prisioners on this holy wars.

    Quote by Ray Rules

  20. #20
    MarcStitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Colorado, United States
    Posts
    3,992

    Default Re: Never Say Die vs Heaven and Hell

    NEVER SAY DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Vic always says 'killing is my business, and business is good'.. He can play the symphony of destruction, after all the worlds needs a hero because the system has failed. Vic is on the killing road to Hangar 18, and he will Take No Prisioners on this holy wars.

    Quote by Ray Rules

  21. #21
    RLP4ever's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Adelaide, Australia
    Posts
    4,885

    Default Re: Never Say Die vs Heaven and Hell


    This is an odd match-up for me, cos I actually don't care about either of these two albums. NSD was a truly sad, sloppy way to bring the curtains down on the Ozzy-era Sabbath. NSD, excepting maybe 2-3 songs on it, always left me feeling very deflated owing to its thoroughly tasteless, tame, unremarkable hard-rockish sound, Tony's pedestrian guitar-playing overall, Ozzy's lacklustre, vapid vocals, the seemingly untidy, unfocused experimentation all over the record, and just the entire jazzy, poppy atmopherics minus any real quality in content failed to win me over.

    I voted H&H here, although I don't rate Dio's debut with Sabbath nearly as highly as most other fans (at least on these boards) seem to do. I find H&H to be moderately good, no more, no less, rather bland and boring than many people are willing to admit. Yet, it's still much stronger overall than NSD and wins my preference everytime.
    "Actors really are the scum of the earth. Their behavior makes arrogant, overpaid rock stars appear positively noble' - Buzz Osborne

  22. #22
    RLP4ever's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Adelaide, Australia
    Posts
    4,885

    Default Re: Never Say Die vs Heaven and Hell


    This is an odd match-up for me, cos I actually don't care about either of these two albums. NSD was a truly sad, sloppy way to bring the curtains down on the Ozzy-era Sabbath. NSD, excepting maybe 2-3 songs on it, always left me feeling very deflated owing to its thoroughly tasteless, tame, unremarkable hard-rockish sound, Tony's pedestrian guitar-playing overall, Ozzy's lacklustre, vapid vocals, the seemingly untidy, unfocused experimentation all over the record, and just the entire jazzy, poppy atmopherics minus any real quality in content failed to win me over.

    I voted H&H here, although I don't rate Dio's debut with Sabbath nearly as highly as most other fans (at least on these boards) seem to do. I find H&H to be moderately good, no more, no less, rather bland and boring than many people are willing to admit. Yet, it's still much stronger overall than NSD and wins my preference everytime.
    "Actors really are the scum of the earth. Their behavior makes arrogant, overpaid rock stars appear positively noble' - Buzz Osborne

  23. #23
    Bill M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Boston, MA USA
    Posts
    526

    Default Re: Never Say Die vs Heaven and Hell

    I HATE fudging questions, but honestly, this is really too hard for me to decide. I absolutely love both albums to death. I can listen to either of them from beginning to end. "Junior's Eyes" probably has my favorite melody line from Ozzy, but the song "Heaven and Hell" is just such an epic. If I had to choose one for this week though, it would definitely be "Heaven and Hell". That's the CD I'm currently losing myself in!

    Some people hear the differences between these two albums and jump to the conclusion that it was all due to Ozzy being there vs. not being there. But I think it was due to the change in writing teams. It went from Iommi-Ward-Butler (I know Osbourne helped rewrite "Junior's Eyes", but he was still absent through most of the album's making, or so I've read) to Iommi-Dio-Nicholls (Bill said he has "no memory" of making H&H, and Geezer didn't come in until most of the album was already written).

  24. #24

    Default Re: Never Say Die vs Heaven and Hell

    Obviously, I have to say Heaven And Hell simply due to the fact
    that it's probably my all time favorite album. Having said that,
    I love Never Say Die as well! Comparing these two albums, as someone else said, it's apples to oranges. NSD is kind of a strange listen. It's a band out of sorts, on their last legs
    limping to their tenth anniversary as a band. The production
    is odd, yet has a certain charm to it. Some very unique songs
    as well. I love Johnny Blade, Junior's Eyes, Shock Wave and
    Swinging The Chain to name a few. Heaven & Hell on the other
    hand, is a band with a new lease on life. Side One of that album
    is classic all the way though! Neon Knights, Children Of The Sea,
    Lady Evil and Heaven & Hell still sound fresh 25 plus years later
    to my ears. Side Two isn't too shabby either. I am a fan of
    all eras of Sabbath so I enjoy most of their albums. Just my
    two cents on these two albums.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Never Say Die vs Heaven and Hell

    Heaven And Hell

  26. #26

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Australia; Melbourne
    Posts
    259

    Default Re: Never Say Die vs Heaven and Hell

    NSD. Both suck but H&H is worse.

  27. #27
    OzzyIsDio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sabbath Forever, Forever Sabbath
    Posts
    10,202

    Default

    Never Say Die! What could’ve been had they continued with Ozzy!

    Heaven and Hell still a masterpiece though and what could’ve been had they continued with Dio past Live Evil, but my vote goes to Never Say Die!
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
    ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

  28. #28

    Default

    They are two different and uncomparable albums so the choice depends on what do you prefer.

    Never Say Die is a great album but it is different from the previous Sabbath's stuff. Its not heavy and thunderous like the pre Technical Ecstasy stuff. Its is just generic 70's rock and if i didnt knew that this album is a Black Sabbath album, i wouldnt believe it. However, is a great album with great stuff and if you hear it with an open mind, you will enjoy it.

    Heaven and hell from the other hand, is the resurrection of the band. The heavy, thunderous and bursting character of the band until the Sabotage album, is back. We have a more targeted and formulaic sound and an album full of energy and speed. This album, was a Major turning point in Sabbath's career and began a formula that was used in every Sabbath album after. The rhythm pattern of the Heaven and Hell song, is used in the song Holy Diver and on the song Headless Cross. You can understand how influential this album was.

    I like both of the albums but my pick is Heaven and Hell because it began the evolution of the band sound and style and also opened the path for a different music style.

  29. #29
    Ala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Västerås, Sweden
    Posts
    253

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OzzyIsDio View Post
    Never Say Die! What could’ve been had they continued with Ozzy!

    Heaven and Hell still a masterpiece though and what could’ve been had they continued with Dio past Live Evil, but my vote goes to Never Say Die!
    What could have been had they continued with Ozzy is disaster. The band was dysfunctional, everybody was coked out of their minds and the quality of the music had clearly declined compared to the earlier albums. The split was a necessity for all involved.

    When it comes to which album is better, Never Say Die! or Heaven & Hell, I'd say it's Heaven & Hell, easily. They have such a newfound energy on that album and the songwriting is brilliant across the board.

  30. #30
    OzzyIsDio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sabbath Forever, Forever Sabbath
    Posts
    10,202

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tsimisde View Post
    They are two different and uncomparable albums so the choice depends on what do you prefer.

    Never Say Die is a great album but it is different from the previous Sabbath's stuff. Its not heavy and thunderous like the pre Technical Ecstasy stuff. Its is just generic 70's rock and if i didnt knew that this album is a Black Sabbath album, i wouldnt believe it. However, is a great album with great stuff and if you hear it with an open mind, you will enjoy it.

    Heaven and hell from the other hand, is the resurrection of the band. The heavy, thunderous and bursting character of the band until the Sabotage album, is back. We have a more targeted and formulaic sound and an album full of energy and speed. This album, was a Major turning point in Sabbath's career and began a formula that was used in every Sabbath album after. The rhythm pattern of the Heaven and Hell song, is used in the song Holy Diver and on the song Headless Cross. You can understand how influential this album was.

    I like both of the albums but my pick is Heaven and Hell because it began the evolution of the band sound and style and also opened the path for a different music style.
    Good points.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ala View Post
    What could have been had they continued with Ozzy is disaster. The band was dysfunctional, everybody was coked out of their minds and the quality of the music had clearly declined compared to the earlier albums. The split was a necessity for all involved.

    When it comes to which album is better, Never Say Die! or Heaven & Hell, I'd say it's Heaven & Hell, easily. They have such a newfound energy on that album and the songwriting is brilliant across the board.
    Perhaps you are right Ala, when it come to Sabbath I'll always choose Ozzy over the rest, Ozzy era is my preference.
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
    ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

  31. #31
    Kennyz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    428

    Default

    I have to say that Never Say Die is better than Heaven and Hell.

  32. #32
    OzzyIsDio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sabbath Forever, Forever Sabbath
    Posts
    10,202

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kennyz View Post
    I have to say that Never Say Die is better than Heaven and Hell.
    And Heaven and Hell is the best of the Dio era, my favorite Dio era album.
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
    ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

  33. #33
    Kennyz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    428

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OzzyIsDio View Post
    And Heaven and Hell is the best of the Dio era, my favorite Dio era album.
    Mob Rules is my Dio era favorite.The songs and the sound is just great.
    Last edited by Kennyz; 07-28-2018 at 01:32 PM.

  34. #34
    Wicked Cricket's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    4,720

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tsimisde View Post
    They are two different and uncomparable albums so the choice depends on what do you prefer.

    Never Say Die is a great album but it is different from the previous Sabbath's stuff. Its not heavy and thunderous like the pre Technical Ecstasy stuff. Its is just generic 70's rock and if i didnt knew that this album is a Black Sabbath album, i wouldnt believe it. However, is a great album with great stuff and if you hear it with an open mind, you will enjoy it.

    Heaven and hell from the other hand, is the resurrection of the band. The heavy, thunderous and bursting character of the band until the Sabotage album, is back. We have a more targeted and formulaic sound and an album full of energy and speed. This album, was a Major turning point in Sabbath's career and began a formula that was used in every Sabbath album after. The rhythm pattern of the Heaven and Hell song, is used in the song Holy Diver and on the song Headless Cross. You can understand how influential this album was.

    I like both of the albums but my pick is Heaven and Hell because it began the evolution of the band sound and style and also opened the path for a different music style.
    spot on! my thoughts exactly...
    "Music is so sacred to me that I can’t hear wishy-washy nonsense just played for the sake of selling records."
    R. Blackmore

  35. #35
    OzzyIsDio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sabbath Forever, Forever Sabbath
    Posts
    10,202

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kennyz View Post
    Mob Rules is my Dio era favorite.The songs and the sound is just great.
    Another great Dio/Sabbath album with Falling Off The Edge Of The World being one of the best Sabbath songs outside the Ozzy era. (YoY)!!!
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
    ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

  36. #36

    Default

    Objectively, H&H is the better album. Personally, I prefer NSD.

  37. #37

    Default

    I like NSD! better...it's songs resonate with me more in general than H&H...I like most of the music on H&H but the lyrics (for the most part) don't truly resonate with me the way Geezer's lyrics do.
    ♫Forget all your sorrow, don't live in the past,
    and look to the future, 'cause life goes too fast, you know♫

  38. #38

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Sabman Cometh View Post
    Objectively, H&H is the better album. Personally, I prefer NSD.
    Objectively and personally, I give Heaven And Hell the nod. ...

  39. #39

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 70sOzzyBlackSabbah! View Post
    I like NSD! better...it's songs resonate with me more in general than H&H...I like most of the music on H&H but the lyrics (for the most part) don't truly resonate with me the way Geezer's lyrics do.
    H&H gets my vote, overall I consider it to be so much better than NSD. I agree about Geezer's lyrics being better than RJD's, although I think they both write some stellar lyrics.

    Ted

  40. #40

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Sallis View Post
    H&H gets my vote, overall I consider it to be so much better than NSD. I agree about Geezer's lyrics being better than RJD's, although I think they both write some stellar lyrics.

    Ted
    Fair point TS.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •