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    When I first heard the band were going into the studio to record a new album (13), I didn`t bother holding my breath after so many false dawns. I assumed that when it was released, if ever, the whole thing would be along the lines of Psycho Man, and Selling My Soul. My god, how wrong could I have been? The whole album is AWESOME! Anyone wondering about the quality of the songs, production, musical execution or whatever, GO AND BUY IT NOWWW!!! I haven`t been as excited listening to a new album since I first played Sabbath Bloody Sabbath (and that`s a few years ago). Brad Wilks does a fantastic job behind the kit. It saddens me to say, probably a much better job than Bill could have done. Tony and Geezer sound like they did in their heyday, albeit with an updated production, and Ozzy`s voice sounds the best it has in decades, thanks to Rick Rubins knowlege of pro tools. Thank you Black Sabbath, you`ve made an ageing rocker blissfully happy.

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    I had been skeptical too. I was like 'when we get it, we get it'. It wasn't until they posted the first clip of studio footage where Ozzy laying down the vocals for Dear Father that it all came to senses, realizing the magnitude of what's coming. I jumped up and down out of the excitement no joke lol It's been a painful waiting from there but worth it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by taxidriver1974 View Post
    When I first heard the band were going into the studio to record a new album (13), I didn`t bother holding my breath after so many false dawns. I assumed that when it was released, if ever, the whole thing would be along the lines of Psycho Man, and Selling My Soul. My god, how wrong could I have been? The whole album is AWESOME! Anyone wondering about the quality of the songs, production, musical execution or whatever, GO AND BUY IT NOWWW!!! I haven`t been as excited listening to a new album since I first played Sabbath Bloody Sabbath (and that`s a few years ago). Brad Wilks does a fantastic job behind the kit. It saddens me to say, probably a much better job than Bill could have done. Tony and Geezer sound like they did in their heyday, albeit with an updated production, and Ozzy`s voice sounds the best it has in decades, thanks to Rick Rubins knowlege of pro tools. Thank you Black Sabbath, you`ve made an ageing rocker blissfully happy.
    According to Ozzy last night they didn't use Pro Tools as they wanted the album to sound more genuine with the band all playing together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post
    According to Ozzy last night they didn't use Pro Tools as they wanted the album to sound more genuine with the band all playing together.
    I think they did use Pro Tools, but now in the way that it is sometimes done. For example, they didn't copy one vocal part and use it again later in the song.
    Last edited by UnderTheSun; 06-12-2013 at 05:39 PM.

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    The more I listenm the wider my grin gets and my head just bobs up and down.. the album is soooo "retro" sounding so timeless... like their stuff from the 70's... it's amazing... I haven't heard a record sound like this since probbaly the last time i bought a record in the 70's, a BS record!

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    Quote Originally Posted by taxidriver1974 View Post
    When I first heard the band were going into the studio to record a new album (13), I didn`t bother holding my breath after so many false dawns. I assumed that when it was released, if ever, the whole thing would be along the lines of Psycho Man, and Selling My Soul. My god, how wrong could I have been? The whole album is AWESOME! Anyone wondering about the quality of the songs, production, musical execution or whatever, GO AND BUY IT NOWWW!!! I haven`t been as excited listening to a new album since I first played Sabbath Bloody Sabbath (and that`s a few years ago). Brad Wilks does a fantastic job behind the kit. It saddens me to say, probably a much better job than Bill could have done. Tony and Geezer sound like they did in their heyday, albeit with an updated production, and Ozzy`s voice sounds the best it has in decades, thanks to Rick Rubins knowlege of pro tools. Thank you Black Sabbath, you`ve made an ageing rocker blissfully happy.
    I think a lot of us were in that same mindset.. We'll believe it when we see it. But as I've stated elsewhere here on the Sabbath forums, I think Ronnie passing away was a huge wake-up call to all the guys. And Tony's cancer just expounded upon the fact that life is short and time is fleeting. Gotta do it when the opportunity is there, or it can be gone for good.

    I am particularly pleased with the fact that the album is not a complete throwback/rehash/retread of 1969. I think Rubin wanted to be associated with that kind of an album; the results of which aren't bad whatsoever. But I sense that Tony gave Rick only as much as he had to in order to forge bonafide NEW Sabbath music. This is what Tony has wanted to accomplish with Ozzy since at least 1998. Amazing it took this long. In hindsight Im glad it took 15 years. If Ozzy had made Sabbath a sole priority from 1998 onward I think we wouldn't have gotten the brilliant last remaining years with Ronnie back in the fold; even if it was only another 3-4 years. Personally this was just as important a reunion as the one with Ozzy.

    But here we are and the band sounds fucken angry, cynical, and just as important as ever. They forever define heavy music and school the WORLD on how it should be done... and 13 is the beast that we always knew it would be.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post
    According to Ozzy last night they didn't use Pro Tools as they wanted the album to sound more genuine with the band all playing together.
    Quote Originally Posted by UnderTheSun View Post
    I think they did use Pro Tools, but now in the way that it is sometimes done. For example, they didn't copy one vocal part and use it again later in the song.
    Sorry I need to veer off topic here. Zee just reminds me of something I've been wanting to say for a long long time any time I see the name Pro Tools mentioned on public forums such as this.

    They did use Pro tools. But they didn't use it as it might be used in hip hop or techno (Or as Kevin Churko used it on the Ozzy albums he did). I think there's a huge misconception about what pro tools is. Pro tools is a means of recording. The fact that it CAN provide the user an easy way to artificially manipulate a recording is just one use out of innumerable possibilities. I see people crap all over the idea of pro tools, but these are people who have never seen, or used pro tools. As a once active musician/former sound effect designer I can see why engineers don't like it (Im not all that into it myself). But Pro tools is all about what you do with it. It's not built to cheat the listener. Its a powerful sound capturing/editing tool plain and simple.

    I think there's more validity in how teachers complain about spell check these days (and how no one knows how to spell any more) then music fans complain (specifically) about pro tools. You guys that like to look at Playboy don't seem to complain about Adobe Photoshop; and how imperfections are airbrushed out of your favorite playmate's pictures, but the use of photoshop is used almost identically (within that context) to that of Pro tools. I'm all for the artist who has talent. The person who has struggled and sweat as they're building their abilities, and composing crap songs until they are a world class musician, Vocalist, lyricist, and songwriter. Pro tools can capture raw talent as much as any $50.00 tape machine. Based on some comments it seems like some people expect the minute you record into pro tools it makes you sound like Justin Timberlake, or Katie Perry.

    So hate on the opportunist cheat, and liar who thinks they can create and manipulate talent out of crap; the engineer who splices up one take and copies and paste's that one take into a 55 minute trance/techno song. But don't rail against the workbench they use. Thats just ignorance.

    anyway all due respect to everyone here. I'm not trying to flame war anyone, not singling Zee out (For all I know he invented Pro Tools). But I have seen people talk about pro tools in a derogatory way as if It's to blame for bad music being produced or released to the public.

    Anyway as I was watching the Making of 13 DVD last night I can say with much certainty Rick Rubin used pro tools on Sabbath's 13.
    Last edited by devstorm; 06-13-2013 at 01:09 AM.
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  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by devstorm View Post
    I think a lot of us were in that same mindset.. We'll believe it when we see it. But as I've stated elsewhere here on the Sabbath forums, I think Ronnie passing away was a huge wake-up call to all the guys. And Tony's cancer just expounded upon the fact that life is short and time is fleeting. Gotta do it when the opportunity is there, or it can be gone for good.

    I am particularly pleased with the fact that the album is not a complete throwback/rehash/retread of 1969. I think Rubin wanted to be associated with that kind of an album; the results of which aren't bad whatsoever. But I sense that Tony gave Rick only as much as he had to in order to forge bonafide NEW Sabbath music. This is what Tony has wanted to accomplish with Ozzy since at least 1998. Amazing it took this long. In hindsight Im glad it took 15 years. If Ozzy had made Sabbath a sole priority from 1998 onward I think we wouldn't have gotten the brilliant last remaining years with Ronnie back in the fold; even if it was only another 3-4 years. Personally this was just as important a reunion as the one with Ozzy.

    But here we are and the band sounds fucken angry, cynical, and just as important as ever. They forever define heavy music and school the WORLD on how it should be done... and 13 is the beast that we always knew it would be.






    Sorry I need to veer off topic here. Zee just reminds me of something I've been wanting to say for a long long time any time I see the name Pro Tools mentioned on public forums such as this.

    They did use Pro tools. But they didn't use it as it might be used in hip hop or techno (Or as Kevin Churko used it on the Ozzy albums he did). I think there's a huge misconception about what pro tools is. Pro tools is a means of recording. The fact that it CAN provide the user an easy way to artificially manipulate a recording is just one use out of innumerable possibilities. I see people crap all over the idea of pro tools, but these are people who have never seen, or used pro tools. As a once active musician/former sound effect designer I can see why engineers don't like it (Im not all that into it myself). But Pro tools is all about what you do with it. It's not built to cheat the listener. Its a powerful sound capturing/editing tool plain and simple.

    I think there's more validity in how teachers complain about spell check these days (and how no one knows how to spell any more) then music fans complain (specifically) about pro tools. You guys that like to look at Playboy don't seem to complain about Adobe Photoshop; and how imperfections are airbrushed out of your favorite playmate's pictures, but the use of photoshop is used almost identically (within that context) to that of Pro tools. I'm all for the artist who has talent. The person who has struggled and sweat as they're building their abilities, and composing crap songs until they are a world class musician, Vocalist, lyricist, and songwriter. Pro tools can capture raw talent as much as any $50.00 tape machine. Based on some comments it seems like some people expect the minute you record into pro tools it makes you sound like Justin Timberlake, or Katie Perry.

    So hate on the opportunist cheat, and liar who thinks they can create and manipulate talent out of crap; the engineer who splices up one take and copies and paste's that one take into a 55 minute trance/techno song. But don't rail against the workbench they use. Thats just ignorance.

    anyway all due respect to everyone here. I'm not trying to flame war anyone, not singling Zee out (For all I know he invented Pro Tools). But I have seen people talk about pro tools in a derogatory way as if It's to blame for bad music being produced or released to the public.

    Anyway as I was watching the Making of 13 DVD last night I can say with much certainty Rick Rubin used pro tools on Sabbath's 13.
    You have pretty much summed up the Pro Tools situation. If we had recorded on tape the album wouldn't be finished yet

    The ability to record everything the band played without fear of running out of tape is just one advantage. Add to that the ease of trying edits between takes and comparing different versions allows a really creative way to get the most vibey version of a song and also allows for the performances of the band to be kept intact rather than punching in and replacing instruments wholesale.

    With Tony's treatments meaning he has to be in the UK every couple of months, we were able to bring sessions back to England and securely send back our overdubs via Shangri La's server to be incorporated back into the master sessions for mixing. Pro Tools 10 has one of the most elegant ways of exporting the selected tracks as a new session that I've come across.

    Pro Tools has very little to do with how final albums sound - it is ultimately governed by the creative direction that the man in charge wants to take. Modern coverters sound extremely musical especially when tracking through Neve and API preamps, and to dispel any misinformation - this record was mixed via analog outboard gear using a couple of Neve consoles. Check out www.punkerpad.com

    Analog tape may still have its place but it would have not been any better for the creative process on this record.

  8. #8

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    I don't really like the Pro-Tools hate either. Pro-tools is a tool. It's a very powerful tool and with great power comes with great responsibility, but at the end of the day it's still just a tool. It's all about the craftsman using it.

    Mixing an album used to mean playing through it and hitting the faders in real time and gradually tweaking it over and over. Pro-tools means you can just go in and change it. It's non-linear editing. Guys like Zakk Wylde will record to tape, thne digitize the tapes and mix it in Pro-tools because it's more user friendly and more economical.

  9. #9
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    Sorry when I said they didn't use Pro Tools, I meant as a trick to "fix" Ozzy's voice on tracks as the previous poster before my comment was suggesting. When he said Ozzy's voice sounded the "best it has sounded in decades...thanks to pro tools" I took exception to that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post
    Sorry when I said they didn't use Pro Tools, I meant as a trick to "fix" Ozzy's voice on tracks as the previous poster before my comment was suggesting. When he said Ozzy's voice sounded the "best it has sounded in decades...thanks to pro tools" I took exception to that.
    Cool. like I said I wasn't trying to single you out.......and all things considered Ozzy even said the fact that he sang the songs in a register that was much more comfortable to him made a big difference in the outcome of the album.

    Also, I really appreciate MikeX coming in here and offering even more perspective on the making of this album. I felt the DVD in the Bonus Box didn't touch on the actual recording process nearly enough. It's always great to get the little details of stuff like this in my opinion.
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