View Poll Results: which album do you like best?

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  • 13

    54 66.67%
  • The Devil You Know

    27 33.33%
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  1. #1

    Default 13 vs. The Devil You Know

    Black Sabbath with Ozzy ... It doesn't get much better

    13
    Last edited by thewizard; 06-17-2013 at 12:24 PM.

  2. #2
    axeman_12656's Avatar
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    As we say in Kentucky, this thread is "fixin' to get ugly!".

    But.. 13

  3. #3
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    I don't feel that either album is flawless, but TDYK I feel is a stronger effort overall.
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    Not even a contest. The music alone...Tony is in another universe. Rubin brought things out in him he hasn't messed with in DECADES. Outside of Bible Black and a few moments in tracks like Follow The Tears and Rock 'n' Roll Angel, I still find TDYK to be tired and incredibly generic. And +1,000 points for not hearing a single reference to spiders or black cats or whatever on 13.

    Last but not least, Damaged Soul. That never, ever, ever would have happened with Heaven & Hell. Then again, that's one of many reasons that '13' is a Black Sabbath album.

    So...13 it is.
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  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by hipster doofus View Post
    Not even a contest. The music alone...Tony is in another universe. Rubin brought things out in him he hasn't messed with in DECADES. Outside of Bible Black and a few moments in tracks like Follow The Tears and Rock 'n' Roll Angel, I still find TDYK to be tired and incredibly generic. And +1,000 points for not hearing a single reference to spiders or black cats or whatever on 13.

    Last but not least, Damaged Soul. That never, ever, ever would have happened with Heaven & Hell. Then again, that's one of many reasons that '13' is a Black Sabbath album.

    So...13 it is.
    Love and respect your opinion , but TDYK and 13 are both fantastic sabbath albums track for track , in fact just as you may not have gotten DAMAGE SOUL out of TDYK , all tho there jam session during the track heaven n hell live on this tour is a major jam in and of itself , there was no chance of hearing something as incredible in a different way like BREAKING INTO HEAVEN or BIBLE BLACK off of "13" ... I would probably choose 13 myself with some more time listening , but by a small margin , and not as of this moment...

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  6. #6
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    I am starting to love 13 though I really love TDYK and am more familiar with it so I voted for Dio Sabbath. It maybe different in a few months the more I listen to 13 - we will see.
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  7. #7

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    13, and I'm a Dio guy. TDYK is so boring.
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  8. #8
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    13 all the way, found tdyk a bit depressing. Not in a connecting way either, may of been cause I was listening to it thinking this was ronnies last album.
    Wish tdyk would of been a uplifting, fast paced celebration of dio but obviously no one knew at the time it would be his last.
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  9. #9
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    I love The Devil You Know, but I love 13 even more.
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
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  10. #10
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    The Devil You Know.

    Both albums are pretty conservative and I don't think either are as good as the classic albums by either line-up, but TDYK comes a lot closer. While TDYK isn't particularly adventurous, it doesn't feel like just a nostalgic trip down memory lane, which I think 13 does. I know Rubin wanted that early Sabbath sound, but to me it just sounds cynically calculated. The Devil You Know by a landslide.

  11. #11

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    Definitely 13, nothing against The Devil You Know (which is still awesome) but 13 is way more enjoyable to listen to. Not to mention unlike the TDYK, 13's songs all sound distinctly different. 13 surpassed any expectation I had on the idea of a reunion Sabbath album. Like I mentioned, TDYK is still a really good album but for me, it isn't nearly as good compared to the other Sabbath albums with Ronnie.
    Last edited by Van Sabbath; 06-17-2013 at 07:03 PM.

  12. #12
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    I like TDYK, but it's not even my fav Dio era album. The thing is that none of the songs on that album stay in my head. I've listened to it so many times but it just never really sinks in the same way as the other Dio stuff.

    That said I do like the album a lot, it was very dark and very well put together, it had this nice thematic and musical consistency. Also pretty much the best album artwork and packaging ever! At the time it blew other hard rock and metal releases out of the water! It just didn't compare as well to the other Dio era albums, which is a pretty tough act to top! TDYK was great for its time and I do not think it will be as timeless as Heaven and Hell or Mob Rules.

    13 wins it because it is just as good as the best albums from the Ozzy years. 13 musically felt more pure and has so many songs that are of a timeless grade.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Kenneth View Post
    The Devil You Know.

    Both albums are pretty conservative and I don't think either are as good as the classic albums by either line-up, but TDYK comes a lot closer. While TDYK isn't particularly adventurous, it doesn't feel like just a nostalgic trip down memory lane, which I think 13 does. I know Rubin wanted that early Sabbath sound, but to me it just sounds cynically calculated. The Devil You Know by a landslide.

    Well put..I tend to agree here. I think TDYK is maybe a little more honest.. There were no rules. Just write the best album you can; on 13 Rubin set a stage and a format for them to fit within so they're very different.

    Dont get me wrong, I think 13 is a good album. But its strange, when I think about it I find issues with it. When I go back and listen to it there's a lot that I like about it. I think I need to live with it for a while longer. But TDYK minus songs like R&R Angel I just think it kicks tons of ass..
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  14. #14

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    Definitely 13. I don't think it's a masterpiece like many on here, but it is quite good, while The Devil You was one of my most disappointing albums of all time, very boring.
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  15. #15
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    13 wins hands down. But TDYK I do like and got alot out of. Was worth the wait and money. Few points I'd like to make
    TDYK as was later told that alot if the drums weren't Appice but a drum machine. Listening to TDYK before knowing that fact I said it felt like Vinny could have phoned that one in.
    13 Brad Wilk fits in so nicely and the drums are amazing. They fit in the pocket of what Iommi & Geezer were doing. Then added some elements on top of that.

    I really did like TDYK but my downfall with that album was to me it was the same flavor of Ice Cream the whole way through. Alot of people felt that way.

    And I think we all agree the music video for GID is much better the BB.
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  16. #16
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    Seeing the results here kinda give me back my hope in humanity
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  17. #17
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    TDYK easily. "13" is incredibly overrated on this site. After about 10 listens I'm extremely bored with it.

    update: After adding "Meth" and "Pariah" to the main album I'm digging it again lol
    Last edited by DARKEST LIGHT; 06-18-2013 at 09:37 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DARKEST LIGHT View Post
    TDYK easily. "13" is incredibly overrated on this site. After about 10 listens I'm extremely bored with it.
    Well, then just stop listening to it and put on something you enjoy instead?!?!?!?!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Underdog View Post
    Well, then just stop listening to it and put on something you enjoy instead?!?!?!?!
    I did. I put on TDYK. Peace And Love.

    btw. I say it's overrated here but I'm not saying it's a poor album by any means. I like it but I think the bonus tracks would have made the LP more fun

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    (should've been a peace-icon here)
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  21. #21
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    While I like 13 for me it's The Devil You know - I just prefer Dio's vocals & where TDYK at least had Eating the Cannibals & Neverwhere for fast tracks 13 really doesn't have a fast track on it - just don't understand why they spent so much time on 13 modeling songs after Planet Caravan, Black Sabbath, and NIB & forgot to write one modeled after Symptom of the Universe
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  22. #22
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    For me it is just too early for this kind of decision. I get WAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY too excited when albums are brand new. Probably take me until the first of the year or so before I would trust any judgment I made as to its place in history and how it compares to anything.
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    I think partly the same thing applies to both albums, they're good, but no match for the earlier work.

    However there is not a single stinker on The Devil You Know. It's a very solid album...and also has that classic Black Sabbath feel to it...
    13 on the other hand has two stinkers on it, which already bring the album down in comparison. Also Tony's riff work on The Devil You Know is way superior to 13. On the otherhand his solo work is again superior on 13. But the biggest difference I think is Geezer, he's truly on fire on The Devil You Know. Truly some heavy monsterous playing...and he's actually well represented in the mix, where in 13 he is quite burried at times. Which also kind of seems to be Rubin's style...

    Comparing Ozzy's work to Ronnie's isn't sensible, they're such different preformers and writers. Two completely different beasts. Same goes for Vinny and Brad. Vinny's always a fantastic live player but he never really got to shine on the album, which was a real shame. Brad got maybe bit more room to play, which probably was Rubin's doing...so I suppose even he got something right...

    But all in all I have to go with The Devil You Know. It is just more complete, solid album...where 13 kind of has it's ups and downs...

  24. #24
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    Hate to say it, but I find TDYK to be boring compared to "13". Sabbath was born with Ozzy.
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  25. #25
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    I think The Devil you know is a great album, like Ozzy, Dio's solo career was dwindling till he reunited back with Sabbath.

    13 is a classic Sabbath album with the original frontman. What is more special and greater than that?

    ---------- Post added at 05:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:51 AM ----------

    I have a two hour drive today, so I'll be listening to 13 and The Devil You Know back to back.
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
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  26. #26
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    Strangely, for me, it's a difficult choice to make. Both are somewhat sub-par albums. Still, despite its drawbacks, I'd choose '13'. I have never once listened to TDYK in the last 3 years--and I have heard it through just thrice. I tried but completely failed to like TDYK at all (save just the two tunes off it).
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  27. #27
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    Like all the Ozzy era albums, I can listen to them forever... they never seem to get old.. and this new one "13" fits like an old glove... Ozzy's melodies have always outshined Ronnie's by a Country Girl mile... as great a singer RJD was, Ozzy's the better fit and more listenable voice... there's a reason Ozzy's a mega star & Icon. "13" wins easily, one because it's Black Sabbath vs another band.. 2 because it has twice as mant great songs that sound as timeless as the first 6 BS albums...

    ---------- Post added at 02:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by RLP4ever View Post
    Strangely, for me, it's a difficult choice to make. Both are somewhat sub-par albums. Still, despite its drawbacks, I'd choose '13'. I have never once listened to TDYK in the last 3 years--and I have heard it through just thrice. I tried but completely failed to like TDYK at all (save just the two tunes off it).
    RLP, even with the 3 bonus tracks you think the album is "subpar.."? It does have the old Sabbath sound/feel to it though, doesn't it? Sometimes great albums "grow" on you..

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wicked Cricket View Post
    Like all the Ozzy era albums, I can listen to them forever... they never seem to get old.. and this new one "13" fits like an old glove... Ozzy's melodies have always outshined Ronnie's by a Country Girl mile... as great a singer RJD was, Ozzy's the better fit and more listenable voice... there's a reason Ozzy's a mega star & Icon. "13" wins easily.
    I agree fully.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wicked Cricket View Post
    Ozzy's melodies have always outshined Ronnie's by a Country Girl mile...
    Bwahahahaha. Ozzy in no shape or form could match Ronnie on melody. Most of the time Ozzy just unimaginatively sang along with the riff. Even Tony acknowledged Ronnie's superiority. Some Ozzies just never miss an opportunity to bring up the Dio vs Ozzy thing.

    Update: I had to remind myself both of these guys are great in their own way
    Last edited by DARKEST LIGHT; 06-20-2013 at 12:38 PM.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by DARKEST LIGHT View Post
    Bwahahahaha. Ozzy in no shape or form could match Ronnie on melody. Most of the time Ozzy just unimaginatively sang along with the riff. Even Tony acknowledged Ronnie's superiority. You Ozzies just never miss an opportunity to bring up the Dio vs Ozzy thing.
    Ozzy has it melody wise all over Ronnie...RJD's voice was never a commercial success, which is why Ozzy led bands have sold truck loads more thsan anything DIO sang on... for some reason, Ronnie had a fear or distain for sounding anywhere near "commercial"... I'll take Ozzy's vocals anyday over RJD... RJD was great for Sabbath but only in a mop up role, Ozzy's always been to starting QB.. to put it in American Football terms...

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by DARKEST LIGHT View Post
    Most of the time Ozzy just unimaginatively sang along with the riff.
    This is such a ridiculous statement. "Most of the time?"

    On a catalog that now spans 9 full albums with Sabbath, 10 as a solo artist and countless compilations and collaborations, there are but a very small handful of tracks where he actually does this. We all have our preferences, but don't blow things out of proportion. Ozzy is well known throughout the music world for his vocal melodies and it's for a reason. Whether you personally like them doesn't change that.

    ---------- Post added at 10:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:53 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by DARKEST LIGHT View Post
    Even Tony acknowledged Ronnie's superiority.
    Tony has always been the biggest fan of whomever he's working with at the time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hipster doofus View Post
    Tony has always been the biggest fan of whomever he's working with at the time.
    I think he was referring to Tony's statement on the Iron Man book about Ronnie's "superiority" in both vocal melody and song writing. I don't recall if he actually used that word but he did make it pretty clear that Ronnie's talent was much greater in those departments than Ozzy's.

    But as usual that's just a matter of taste really.

  33. #33
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    I guess the Ozzy/Dio wars will never be over, it is very tiring and doesn't bring out the best in anyone.

    We should be rejoicing that the original Sabbath is back, minus Bill, but hey at least we got a Sabbath album with Ozzy.

    I rejoiced when Dio/Sabbath released TDYK, was overjoyed with it, hell I stood in front of Best Buy before they opened for The Live At Radio City Music Hall, and The Devil You Know, I was that excited.

    For 13 I was lucky enough to get an early copy of 13 from the Doc, before my Deluxe Box set arrived, let's be happy and grateful for 13, and stop the Dio/Ozzy thing, it's old already, as a matter of fact let's be grateful for The Devil You Know, I think that's the album that inspired Ozzy to get back with Sabbath and work on 13.

    So maybe without TDYK there would be no 13. We have two great albums from two Sabbath eras, that might just be our last, well the Dio one will be God rest his soul.
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charger View Post
    I think he was referring to Tony's statement on the Iron Man book about Ronnie's "superiority" in both vocal melody and song writing. I don't recall if he actually used that word but he did make it pretty clear that Ronnie's talent was much greater in those departments than Ozzy's.

    But as usual that's just a matter of taste really.
    And the bulk of that book was written with a certain someone fronting the band at the time...

    Nevertheless, I really couldn't care less who Tony prefers. Historically, he's always gone with the bigger paycheck.
    Last edited by hipster doofus; 06-19-2013 at 11:14 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charger View Post
    I think he was referring to Tony's statement on the Iron Man book about Ronnie's "superiority" in both vocal melody and song writing. I don't recall if he actually used that word but he did make it pretty clear that Ronnie's talent was much greater in those departments than Ozzy's.

    But as usual that's just a matter of taste really.


    This is a misleading statement. Tony at the time (1979) was frustrated with Ozzy. Ozzy wasn’t being productive with the group. They couldn't get him to write with them or really get involved with the next album. Ozzy was being "half assed" as we say in the states. Then when Ronnie came along it was an all new energy. Tony was referring to that date and time. Doesn't mean that Tony thinks everything Ronnie did was Superior to Ozzy over the course of the 43 year history.

    They are both great. That is all that matters!!!

  36. #36
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    Dio is also a musician himself, which meant that he more likely than not, easier (or at least different) to work with as he could give more input on the song writing. I don't think there's any doubt that Dio is the superior singer from a technical point of view. Does that mean he is by default the better singer for Sabbath or that people have to prefer him? Of course not. I prefer Dio myself, but I do understand why some would prefer Ozzy.

    As far as Ozzy being a megastar and an icon goes, I think that's more due to his outrageous personality and having some of the most amazing and ruthless management in the business from day 1. I'm not saying his melodies are bad, far from it, I love Ozzy. But saying that he's a megastar and icon mainly because of his vocal melodies, deserves a good hard laugh I think.
    Last edited by Sir Kenneth; 06-19-2013 at 11:48 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by axeman_12656 View Post
    They are both great. That is all that matters!!!
    Truer words are rarely spoken.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Kenneth View Post
    Dio is also a musician himself, which meant that he more likely than not, easier (or at least different) to work with as he could give more input on the song writing. I don't think there's any doubt that Dio is the superior singer from a technical point of view. Does that mean he is by default the better singer for Sabbath or that people have to prefer him? Of course not. I prefer Dio myself, but I do understand why some would prefer Ozzy.

    As far as Ozzy being a megastar and an icon goes, I think that's more due to his outrageous personality and having some of the most amazing and ruthless management in the business from day 1. I'm not saying his melodies are bad, far from it, I love Ozzy. But saying that he's a megastar and icon mainly because of his vocal melodies, deserves a good hard laugh I think.
    Good Post!! I agree with all of your statements. To me Ozzy's melodies are top notch. But, its not what made him OZZY!

  39. #39
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    To the everyday fan in the street, the record buying and concert attending fan, Ozzy has always been their choice over RJD... Ozzy's the most unique voice in show bizz, and his melodies are catchy, I can't think of 1 RJD song melody I'd refer to as "catchy". Make no mistake, RJD was a great singer, but his disdain for anything commercial (aka Rainbow In The Dark), which I happen to like the most of any of his solo work... has always been his down fall, from being fired from Blackmore's Rainbow for his unwillingness to go for a more commercial sound, to his lack of overall record sales and popularity, he was his greatest asset and his own worse enemy in that regards.. we all know what a great voice he had, a certain unique style, phrasing.. expression, but did he truly use it to the best of his capabilities..? why didn't we hear more Rainbow Eye's... or Heaven & Hell's..? It ends up being a matter of taste, and their 2 styles are 180 degrees opposite of each other... so it's not a surprise that there's great divisions to one side or the other, or passionate opinions... in my eyes, BS had the 2 all time best vocalists in their band, but Ozzy will always be the fans, the vast majority of fans, clear cut choice...

  40. #40
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    Lack of overall record sales? Dio's solo career has done pretty well. Not Britney Spears or Kanye West well perhaps, but still good sales. He's sold millions of albums and has several albums that have been certified platinum. I don't think talking about "overall lack of record sales" makes sense. From where I'm standing, he looks plenty of succesful

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