Bill Ward open to Black Sabbath return

[Wheels Of Confusion]

I never saw it, but I heard they inserted Eddie's son into pics or something, lol.

I'm not sure if that's true or not.

[chris h]

What's going on with the Black Sabbath site removing Bill from the pictures?

I just saw Matt Sorum (ex Cult, GNR, Velvet Revolver drummer) going on about it, surely he's not going to get the old cut em out treatment Bob and Lee have received?

This removal was done at Bill Ward's request. He felt it was false advertising to have his face all over the official web page if he dropped out of the reunion.

The Michael Anthony thing was Van Halen acting like jerks.. Anthony has handled his VH situation with nothing but class .. but was pretty upset about this ommision.

Matt Sorum loves to keep his name in the press doesn't he....? What does he have to do with Black Sabbath...?

edit: I just saw Billy's reply...I should have read all the way through.

[Wheels Of Confusion]

I'm not on twitter or any of that stuff, I have trouble understanding who is saying what and where exactly but I saw Sorum's thing in the newsbar of another forum I go on...the guy (Matt) just clogs it up with his tweets, about what I'm not so sure.
He just had a blow out with Ted Nugent I think, I'm a (classic) GNR fan and was never into Sorum or his drumming very much at all haha.

Good to hear about Mike handling it well, I've never kept up to speed with VH and all their drama but it's not the same without Michael Anthony as far as I'm concerned.

PS I can't find Bill's reply to Sorum's tweet, although I see somebody has set him straight

[WallOfSleep]

I just don't get why he doesn't record more with other Hard rock/metal bands...I would certainly think many bands would love to have him play drums on a song or two. And it would be easy $$ for him.

Yeah this. He could also do drum clinics. I'm sure lots of music stores would pay big bucks for a Bill Ward drum clinic. The point is Bill could show everyone he's in playing shape by playing! (Once he heals up that is.)

[RedZero]

A lot of good points made on this thread by a lot of people posting here, and I agree with most of them, but excuses are excuses and get tiring, and when someone has a past track record and history of not being reliable that speaks for itself.

The show had to go on, it did, and I'm glad for that and hope that Bill comes to his senses and that any future Black Sabbath project has Bill in the fold creating that drum magic only Bill can create with Tony, Geezer and Ozzy.

Ain't that the truth brother.

1) My conspiracy theory is that he is making stuff up about his illness and being mad at Ozzy in order to save face. (In case they ask him to join 14).

2) Ward solo album won't come out any time soon if ever.

3) Of course he's heard the full album by now. I don't believe the 40 seconds of GID story. #1 in a zillion countries, favorable press everywhere; human nature and curiosity forces Ward to give it a spin.

[Jeff]

I think Ward One: Along The Way is just as good as anything the other 3 guys have done post original Sabbath.

I like Ward One just fine, but the day that is as good as something like Heaven and Hell is the day I just assume the world has gone completely bananas.

The main thing I struggle with about Ward One is the poor, late 80s styled production.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Pink Floyd circa The Final Cut. To me, I hear more inspiration coming from that direction than Gabriel or King Crimson.

Brilliant music but somehow doesn't quite hit it out of the park. And certainly not better than at least half a dozen post-Ozzy Sabbath albums, IMO.

[mds]

I like Ward One just fine, but the day that is as good as something like Heaven and Hell is the day I just assume the world has gone completely bananas.

The main thing I struggle with about Ward One is the poor, late 80s styled production.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Pink Floyd circa The Final Cut. To me, I hear more inspiration coming from that direction than Gabriel or King Crimson.

Brilliant music but somehow doesn't quite hit it out of the park. And certainly not better than at least half a dozen post-Ozzy Sabbath albums, IMO.

Now that the back to basics album (13) has been done it would be interesting to see what impact Bill's writing would have on a future BS recording.

[OIM]

Now that the back to basics album (13) has been done it would be interesting to see what impact Bill's writing would have on a future BS recording.

Keep dreaming

[Wicked Cricket]

Masterbation is a form of relief...

[sellingmysoul]

I really like the Dark half hour..

[bdc]

I thought Ozzy's comments on Bill were very shitty, especially considering the abysmal performances he has turned in himself (GITM)

I have my doubts on Bill returning, Brad Wilk and or Clufetos are probably a lot cheaper than Bill, won't want to stick their noses into the songwriting and I reckon 13's success has proved that most people don't care who the drummer is.

I think Bill sealed his fate as soon as he started haggling over money with Sharon Osbourne.

Spot on IMO.........

Ozzy as a performer has not much room to criticize......You could find a singer on almost any street corner with more range, that stays in tune better........That's not to knock his place in rock history, and former talent which is undeniable. Still he would of never went anywhere without Black Sabbath, and equal gratitude is owed to Bill as well as Tony/Geezer.

I know Bill pissed away his share many years ago, still I hope Bill has better friends than these guys.........and this is all about money...........However, I tend to think, that even outside of Black Sabbath the guy still has a ton more easy earning potential than the average American/European out there.........I can't feel too sad for the guy, but do feel disappointment in the Sabbath organization......In the end I think this diminishes public perception of how much class exists among all involved, including to a lesser degree Bill.

[WallOfSleep]

I just came across this 2 part interview with Bill from 2005 by a jazz magazine. It's pretty interesting especially in the light of recent events.
Part 1
http://www.allaboutjazz.com/bill-war...1#.U2LSZtq9KSM
Part 2
http://www.allaboutjazz.com/bill-war...1#.U2LSPdq9KSM

Here's an excerpt:

But I feel like over the years that I've really tried to learn a lot about just music, period. I even went to a drum teacher for the first time. When I was 50 years-old I kind of had cap-in-hand and felt quite ashamed of myself, and I went to Roy Burns and I asked Roy if he could teach me drums. He kind of had a smile on his face and he said, "Well, you pretty much know how to play drums already, I think." And I told him I didn't consider myself to be a drummer. If anything I consider myself to be an orchestrated drummer. I define that. But, man, Roy gave me some written stuff to learn. Oh man, I found it so awkward, so hard to read. So, I'm still just on eighth notes. I'm still there, you know. He started me off on quarter notes and I moved to eighth notes and I haven't been able to move on since then.

Even kids, little kids that I know that have just grown up into drummers, now have gone past their eighth notes and sixteenths. I mean, they do it and I'm looking at them going, "How do they do that? How do they play like that?" To me, those are real drummers. Those are proper drummers. So, for a long time there was very much of a wasteland in me because I didn't know. I thought, well, how do I categorize myself? I couldn't identify as a drummer. It's like these other guys pick it up and they seem to play in time and they seem to know all these things about drumming, and I have never been able to do that. I have no concept of what they're doing. I went to Roy Burns with all my heart and soul trying to learn how to play drums. I thought, 50 years-old, I'm going to learn how to play drums, finally. You know, I'm clueless. I'm absolutely clueless, yet I can play with a band and just feel the musicians and just play to wherever it's got to go, and that's something that just comes absolutely natural to me. So, I don't get it.

[BACK TO EDEN]

"I can play with a band and just feel the musicians" .... and there has NEVER been a drummer anywhere near this man's league , at doing just that! ....In fact when it came to creativity , all the true greats from that era , could in no way studio or live even come close to the creative expression of drum playing , that WARD could and did achieve!! ....not Bruford , Peart , Paice , Moon , Bonham , Mitchell , no one .... not even close in fact , sure Moon defined the instrument , but nowhere near the extreme of Ward...

I would say , clearly , Ward is one of the single most unique individuals in terms of expressing his instrument in a way that is more creative , then any individual at his or her particular instrument , that I have ever heard .... and in rock music it's not even a question , there's no one , guitar , bass or drums anywhere near what this man has done! .... i would even argue besides L. Subramaniam the violinist , there is no one else in music even in the discussion!

Funny thing , during World War 3 , as Axe put it , and everyone , including me I guess , was spewing garbage on this thread .... i read something like "Ward or drummers in general aren't as important as the vocalist , and don't fill seats or sell records" ... fn halirious those statements are! ... my goodness please stop listening to Sabbath if that's the case , for the TRUE magic of that particular era of music is lost to you....

Without WARD , during that time frame , sabbath as we knew it , would have never existed ... let's face it , the truest studies of Sabbath's music , by those who care and or FEEL notes , EOTB is as impeccable of a track Sabbath has ever written ... can't possibly be any better , in fact Brad is aces on this track! ...but truth be told , a 100 year old Ward in the studio , playing to Iommi , in a way only this man can and or could have , would have takin this epic piece of music 3 steps further into musical ecstacy! ... and again those who care and or feel the true essence of Sabbath's music , know EXACTLY what I'm talking of .... those who don't , never will.

On that debut , Ward is playing notes that Mitchell could only dream of , when you take what this man was doing at that time on THE WIZARD , not even Moon on the real me , could touch that .... it was out of nowhere unique and sensational!!

The mid section of HAND OF DOOM , doesn't even exist , without the patterns Mr Ward was throwing down there , yes Peart tries to duplicate such creativity on the necromancer , but it's just not possible to create the landscape that Ward gave us..

LORD OF THIS WORLD and THRILL OF IT ALL , with any other drummer may very well be an awesome track still none the less , but Ward defines the very essence of these 2 tracks more then any drummer could even imagine ..... LOTW is such a creative sounding 4 band mate track , next time you listen to this or THRILL OF IT ALL , pay strict attention to the drum section during the verses , and one will see the most feel is actually coming from the DRUMS , defines those tracks!

The entire VOL 4 album is a benchmark of HI HAT / SNARE creativity to the highest caliber! .... mid section of WHEELS is just brilliant stuff!! .... SNOWBLIND is a palate of taste all over the place in the simplest of expression .... incredible!!! ...just to name two.

The track SABBATH BLOODY SABBATH .... A drumming paradise!!! .... what a drum track here , wow!

Where Ward just takes his drum playing to the next level , TE and NSD , could very well be the most magical drum playing ever put to record ..... it's funny the notes he claims he doesn't know well , are the exact rudiments of expression that makes these 2 albums peerless!!!

Ward then delivers in what I feel is the foundation of rock drumming on the pinnacle sabbath release , HEAVEN N HELL ..... what he does during WALK AWAY and LONELY IS THE WORD are the things that blueprint why drums can be FAR MORE than a rhythm section!

DISTURBING THE PRIEST is flavor , complete and utter flavor , the man paints a picture with the drum kit .... just awesome playing! .... even PSYCHO MAN and WHO'S FOOLING WHO benefit tremendously from Wards playing , who's fooling who I always use as a display of what I call splash drumming , using the instrument to accent the guitar notes , it is truly quite breathtaking.


Ward on the drums , equals music at its highest caliber ... and a hope for unmatched creativity , that is never left behind....

God bless

[OIM]

I agree Ward is my all time favourite drummer. He was the soul of their sound from BS to Sabotage. When I listen to a lot of the classic songs my attention gravitates to Bill.

TE and NSD were good but the rhythm section was second to the guitar and vocals. Maybe that was the mixing

[The Sabman Cometh]

"I can play with a band and just feel the musicians" .... and there has NEVER been a drummer anywhere near this man's league , at doing just that! ....In fact when it came to creativity , all the true greats from that era , could in no way studio or live even come close to the creative expression of drum playing , that WARD could and did achieve!! ....not Bruford , Peart , Paice , Moon , Bonham , Mitchell , no one .... not even close in fact , sure Moon defined the instrument , but nowhere near the extreme of Ward...

I would say , clearly , Ward is one of the single most unique individuals in terms of expressing his instrument in a way that is more creative , then any individual at his or her particular instrument , that I have ever heard .... and in rock music it's not even a question , there's no one , guitar , bass or drums anywhere near what this man has done! .... i would even argue besides L. Subramaniam the violinist , there is no one else in music even in the discussion!

Funny thing , during World War 3 , as Axe put it , and everyone , including me I guess , was spewing garbage on this thread .... i read something like "Ward or drummers in general aren't as important as the vocalist , and don't fill seats or sell records" ... fn halirious those statements are! ... my goodness please stop listening to Sabbath if that's the case , for the TRUE magic of that particular era of music is lost to you....

Without WARD , during that time frame , sabbath as we knew it , would have never existed ... let's face it , the truest studies of Sabbath's music , by those who care and or FEEL notes , EOTB is as impeccable of a track Sabbath has ever written ... can't possibly be any better , in fact Brad is aces on this track! ...but truth be told , a 100 year old Ward in the studio , playing to Iommi , in a way only this man can and or could have , would have takin this epic piece of music 3 steps further into musical ecstacy! ... and again those who care and or feel the true essence of Sabbath's music , know EXACTLY what I'm talking of .... those who don't , never will.

On that debut , Ward is playing notes that Mitchell could only dream of , when you take what this man was doing at that time on THE WIZARD , not even Moon on the real me , could touch that .... it was out of nowhere unique and sensational!!

The mid section of HAND OF DOOM , doesn't even exist , without the patterns Mr Ward was throwing down there , yes Peart tries to duplicate such creativity on the necromancer , but it's just not possible to create the landscape that Ward gave us..

LORD OF THIS WORLD and THRILL OF IT ALL , with any other drummer may very well be an awesome track still none the less , but Ward defines the very essence of these 2 tracks more then any drummer could even imagine ..... LOTW is such a creative sounding 4 band mate track , next time you listen to this or THRILL OF IT ALL , pay strict attention to the drum section during the verses , and one will see the most feel is actually coming from the DRUMS , defines those tracks!

The entire VOL 4 album is a benchmark of HI HAT / SNARE creativity to the highest caliber! .... mid section of WHEELS is just brilliant stuff!! .... SNOWBLIND is a palate of taste all over the place in the simplest of expression .... incredible!!! ...just to name two.

The track SABBATH BLOODY SABBATH .... A drumming paradise!!! .... what a drum track here , wow!

Where Ward just takes his drum playing to the next level , TE and NSD , could very well be the most magical drum playing ever put to record ..... it's funny the notes he claims he doesn't know well , are the exact rudiments of expression that makes these 2 albums peerless!!!

Ward then delivers in what I feel is the foundation of rock drumming on the pinnacle sabbath release , HEAVEN N HELL ..... what he does during WALK AWAY and LONELY IS THE WORD are the things that blueprint why drums can be FAR MORE than a rhythm section!

DISTURBING THE PRIEST is flavor , complete and utter flavor , the man paints a picture with the drum kit .... just awesome playing! .... even PSYCHO MAN and WHO'S FOOLING WHO benefit tremendously from Wards playing , who's fooling who I always use as a display of what I call splash drumming , using the instrument to accent the guitar notes , it is truly quite breathtaking.


Ward on the drums , equals music at its highest caliber ... and a hope for unmatched creativity , that is never left behind....

God bless

Doc, nice tribute to Mr. Bill Ward. There may be some skirmishes regarding the current situation, but there is no doubt that Bill was a key contributor to the birth and success of Black Sabbath. For me, the magic of Osbourne + Iommi + Butler + Ward can never be matched.

[Now in Darkness]

I agree with you Doc. Even though Bill has fallen from the Sabbath tree, he still deserves a place in history with the other great drummers of rock. He was certainly one of the noteable drummers of his day.

[fishtowner]

I love Bill. I love his drumming. But I'm not a fan of his solo stuff. Sorry! Just don't care for it. Do I think he will ever work with Sabbath again? Yeah I do. At least I hope he does.

[Sabbathman]

It seems that we haven't had anything really new and exciting on this forum for a long time, things seem to go round and round the same cycle where people keep spewing endless speculations and unlimited fantasies about the seemingly endless opportunities of the future and restless opinions of who is the better singer and drummer etc.

The summer is about the begin. Last night I experienced a great show by Viikate, they played many Motörhead classics as well. The summer holds many great shows, Pentagram with Victor Griffin in Tampere, Bloodride here in Seinäjoki, One Night in Asa Bay (Tribute to Bathory) in Jyväskylä, W.A.S.P. and Europe in Tampere, ZZ Top in Helsinki (maybe their last tour), Iced Earth at Nummirock, then at Jalometalli Festival they have King Diamond, Testament, Triptykon, Loudness, Dark Angel, Sacred Reich...

It's time to live the life in rock more and spend less time talking about what could be and should be.

See you in the autumn. Hopefully we will have something really new and exciting going on by then.

[sellingmysoul]

Great post back to Eden.

[Ryan Porter]

Doc, nice tribute to Mr. Bill Ward. There may be some skirmishes regarding the current situation, but there is no doubt that Bill was a key contributor to the birth and success of Black Sabbath. For me, the magic of Osbourne + Iommi + Butler + Ward can never be matched.

As a drummer myself who first began drumming because of Bill Ward, I'm very well-versed in the history of the evolution of the drums from the 60's/70's, when they really began to form into what we know ... anyone who doesn't know of the 70's Sabbath powerhouse that was their rhythm section would be sore indeed to forget about Ward and how important he was. He and Geezer combined were unlike anything that we've heard before or since ... absolutely the most important part of the structure that made Tony Iommi as successful as he was. Ozzy be damned, in all reality.

[thewizard]

EOTB is as impeccable of a track Sabbath has ever written ... can't possibly be any better , in fact Brad is aces on this track! ...but truth be told , a 100 year old Ward in the studio , playing to Iommi , in a way only this man can and or could have , would have takin this epic piece of music 3 steps further into musical ecstacy! ... and again those who care and or feel the true essence of Sabbath's music , know EXACTLY what I'm talking of .... those who don't , never will.

I think I heard Tony say that End of the Beginning was one of the first riffs that Tony and Black Sabbath worked on for 13.

I bet there are some good jam sessions and maybe even a demo recorded of End the Beginning with Bill Ward drumming.

[Now in Darkness]

As a drummer myself who first began drumming because of Bill Ward, I'm very well-versed in the history of the evolution of the drums from the 60's/70's, when they really began to form into what we know ... anyone who doesn't know of the 70's Sabbath powerhouse that was their rhythm section would be sore indeed to forget about Ward and how important he was. He and Geezer combined were unlike anything that we've heard before or since ... absolutely the most important part of the structure that made Tony Iommi as successful as he was. Ozzy be damned, in all reality.

There are many drummers on this board, including myself. It is worth noting, in response to your last sentence, that Ozzy's success absolutely dwarfed those who you hold in much higher esteem.

[The Sabman Cometh]

As a drummer myself who first began drumming because of Bill Ward, I'm very well-versed in the history of the evolution of the drums from the 60's/70's, when they really began to form into what we know ... anyone who doesn't know of the 70's Sabbath powerhouse that was their rhythm section would be sore indeed to forget about Ward and how important he was. He and Geezer combined were unlike anything that we've heard before or since ... absolutely the most important part of the structure that made Tony Iommi as successful as he was. Ozzy be damned, in all reality.

Very true, until the last sentence. Black Sabbath would not have become the legend that they are without the charisma and haunting vocals of Ozzy. Again all four original members created this dynamic sound and this combination was necessary in order for Black Sabbath to create their masterpiece albums.

No offense to the drummers out there, the vast majority of fans would not notice a change in a band's drummer, or even bass player. The lead singer and lead guitarist are out front and are most recognized for a band's signature sound and thus get most of the glory. For some bands, the revolving door system of musicians has worked, at least as far as commercial success. I would prefer it if fans were more educated in recognizing the key contributions from each band member.

[Wheels Of Confusion]

Yeah in his day Ozzy was the ultimate frontman, huge amounts of charisma and unique vocals.

I don't think much of his work and since the turn of the century really, but up till then Ozzy ruled (in my opinion anyway)

He's definitely the weak link in Sabbath these days, but he's also the big drawcard and always has been.
Even if he didn't write the lyrics to all those classic songs, he did at least come up with the melodies and Geezer or Bob's lyrics wouldn't have worked so well delivered by Tom Dick or Harry...credit where credit is due.

[OzzyIsDio]

There are many drummers on this board, including myself. It is worth noting, in response to your last sentence, that Ozzy's success absolutely dwarfed those who you hold in much higher esteem.

Very true, until the last sentence. Black Sabbath would not have become the legend that they are without the charisma and haunting vocals of Ozzy. Again all four original members created this dynamic sound and this combination was necessary in order for Black Sabbath to create their masterpiece albums.

So very true my Sabbath brothers!!!! Why all the Ozzy hate? These Ozzy haters need to ask themselves why 13 went number 1.

[Spiralarchitectx1]

Great post btw as usual on bill ward doc!
If it wasn't for bill plus the others 3 I wouldn't even class myself as a sab fan,
The magic was unique to the four of them. The 4.

[OzzyIsDio]

Great post btw as usual on bill ward doc!
If it wasn't for bill plus the others 3 I wouldn't even class myself as a sab fan,
The magic was unique to the four of them. The 4.

So very true Spiral, magic that can only be created by the Sab 4, and that fifth element that Bill spoke about so many times, which was their energy combined into one, that created what we know as today as Black Sabbath!!!

[Now in Darkness]

So very true Spiral, magic that can only be created by the Sab 4, and that fifth element that Bill spoke about so many times, which was their energy combined into one, that created what we know as today as Black Sabbath!!!

I agree with this entirely, although I tend to make some concessions for the fact that they are all nearing 70, and have been in the industry forever. It is rare to see ANY original line-up still functional in those circumstances, and therefore, I am okay with Wilk sitting in, because he is also a great drummer with great feel. He is definitely not a Bam Bam robot.

[Spiralarchitectx1]

Until they find a new bill ward not a imitation the magic will forever be confined to those first set of albums as far as I'm concerned,
Tick, tock

[OzzyIsDio]

I agree with this entirely, although I tend to make some concessions for the fact that they are all nearing 70, and have been in the industry forever. It is rare to see ANY original line-up still functional in those circumstances, and therefore, I am okay with Wilk sitting in, because he is also a great drummer with great feel. He is definitely not a Bam Bam robot.

Thank you NID, I feel the same way about Brad Wilk and accept him on the album, like you said once, we should be happy and grateful we got an album from our band and a great one at that, something unfortunately we won't see from Led Zeppelin, at least I got to see the Page & Plant concert.

[Now in Darkness]

Thank you NID, I feel the same way about Brad Wilk and accept him on the album, like you said once we should be happy and grateful we got an album from our band and a great one at that, something unfortunately we won't see from Led Zeppelin, at least I got to see the Page & Plant concert.

Agreed. Robert is a huge talent, but he has all sorts of issues that preclude a Zep reunion.....some of them honorable, and some of them egoic. Its a damn waste, AFAIC.

[Wheels Of Confusion]

Led Zeppelin died with Bohnam.

Plant doesn't want 3/4 of them (especially in their senior citizen years) to churn out an album that doesn't stand up against the Led Zep catalogue "just because" and it seems he is true to his word on that.

[OIM]

Led Zeppelin died with Bohnam. Plant doesn't want 3/4 of them (especially in their senior citizen years) to churn out an album that doesn't stand up against the Led Zep catalogue "just because" and it seems he is true to his word on that.

[Wheels Of Confusion]

Nice contribution, retard.

[WallOfSleep]

Oh geez, not another Led Zeppelin tangent...

[Ryan Porter]

So very true my Sabbath brothers!!!! Why all the Ozzy hate? These Ozzy haters need to ask themselves why 13 went number 1.

No hate meant towards Ozzy ... but the bottom line is also that the MUSIC behind Ozzy just wouldn't be what it is without all the other 3. Ozzy couldn't have been successful without the likes of the original Sabbath. But I agree ... he was integral as well.

[The Sabman Cometh]

No hate meant towards Ozzy ... but the bottom line is also that the MUSIC behind Ozzy just wouldn't be what it is without all the other 3. Ozzy couldn't have been successful without the likes of the original Sabbath. But I agree ... he was integral as well.

Agreed, it took 4 special musicians to produce this great music.

[OIM]

Nobody says Ozzy deserves more than 1/4 of the credit.

[Now in Darkness]

You bastard! I choked on rhubarb pie I laughed so hard at that image.

[Wheels Of Confusion]

Really?

It just clogs up the page, are we going to start a pic posting war like little kids?

I'll refrain.

edit: I know you guys want me kicked out of "Sabbath club", but try posting your opinions/arguments instead of dumb pictures.