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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Underdog View Post
    Well, in my train of thoughts (and seemingly several others) we all know about this "fake end" routine in every show out there. And those of us who follow Sabbath would've expected Paranoid, so a bow could atleast cleared the situation, as in "the show's actually over".
    Oh, I agree.

    But I'm just using a little logic. It's not as if the band have showed any reluctance to do "bows" and say their goodbyes.

    Again, I think it likely that because there was no possibility of them playing, it was felt that it could incite more frustrations for them to appear again and not be able to play. It may have been an unjustified concern or a precaution that was over the top, but security people do have to think about things, like ... you know ... riots? Emotions were surely running very high, after all.

  2. #42
    Billy Underdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
    Oh, I agree.

    But I'm just using a little logic. It's not as if the band have showed any reluctance to do "bows" and say their goodbyes.

    Again, I think it likely that because there was no possibility of them playing, it was felt that it could incite more frustrations for them to appear again and not be able to play. It may have been an unjustified concern or a precaution that was over the top, but security people do have to think about things, like ... you know ... riots? Emotions were surely running very high, after all.
    Yeah, well, i was thinking about the famous Montreal show with Metallica and Guns N' Roses where James Hetfield got burned and Lars Ulrich went out to explain what happened to prevent a riot. Atleast until Guns got onstage...

    Maybe i'm thinking too much like a "hardcore" fan now, but i know i would've understood and appreciated a bow after 5 min. of silence much more than just a dead end...

    But for more "regular" fans, i know what you mean. It's a volatile situation with no real "right" answer, i guess...
    Last edited by Billy Underdog; 06-02-2014 at 02:05 PM.
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  3. #43
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    Dear Jeff, as Billy and NiD got it right - almost all complaints, which you would see in internet if you would speak Russian are about not making a "real bow", that is usually kind of gratitude to public for all artists, be it musicians or theater actors. After CotG they simply went backstage, maybe routinely wavering aside, no more than that. And the public on the floor in attendance wouldn't cause a riot for sure. The audience was quite calm in a good sense - almost no drunk people, girls, people in their 50s-60s, whole families, yeah they were having fun during the set, but believe me, any security guy could tell the difference between this audience and the unruly one, which could be an issue, like the one, which you can sometimes see at big metal festivals like Wacken - huge guys, drunk as shit and looking for trouble. I think that was a stupid advice from management not to make a bow. But that's the point, as I was already writing - the PA going off was of course the blast, but everyone understood - things like that could happen from time to time. And no one expected any big words or speeches (which obviously couldn't happen with PA being off) , just letting everyone know, that the band appreciated the audience. I know it sounds gay, but the audience wasn't a normal stereotypical metal audience, so it was kinda expected for artists to bow out and wave goodbye. If there would be an audience, listening to extreme metal only, probably this audience wouldn't care less.
    Last edited by AlexBarghest; 06-02-2014 at 03:09 PM.

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexBarghest View Post
    Dear Jeff, as Billy and NiD got it right - almost all complaints, which you would see in internet if you would speak Russian are about not making a "real bow", that is usually kind of gratitude to public for all artists, be it musicians or theater actors. After CotG they simply went backstage, maybe routinely wavering aside, no more than that. And the public on the floor in attendance wouldn't cause a riot for sure. The audience was quite calm in a good sense - almost no drunk people, girls, people in their 50s-60s, whole families, yeah they were having fun during the set, but believe me, any security guy could tell the difference between this audience and the unruly one, which could be an issue, like the one, which you can sometimes see at big metal festivals like Wacken - huge guys, drunk as shit and looking for trouble. I think that was a stupid advice from management not to make a bow. But that's the point, as I was already writing - the PA going off was of course the blast, but everyone understood - things like that could happen from time to time. And no one expected any big words or speeches (which obviously couldn't happen with PA being off) , just letting everyone know, that the band appreciated the audience. I know it sounds gay, but the audience wasn't a normal stereotypical metal audience, so it was kinda expected for artists to bow out and wave goodbye. If there would be an audience, listening to extreme metal only, probably this audience wouldn't care less.
    But Alex, you are suggesting the band didn't care or couldn't be bothered. We just don't have a track record from them that suggests anything of that kind when it comes to live performance. They always bow and Tony throws picks, etc.

    Again, we can only guess, and it might seem overly cautious if security were concerned in this way, but it is certainly possible that they were advised by security to just let it go and bring the house lights on.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
    They always bow and Tony throws picks, etc. .
    That's the point Jeff, that never happened here. No picks, no bows, not even "goodbye, god bless you all" blabber. And again they have never played here with Ozzy. It's not States, where you have them each year they tour. People were waiting for decades.
    Last edited by AlexBarghest; 06-02-2014 at 03:35 PM.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
    But Alex, you are suggesting the band didn't care or couldn't be bothered.
    I think you're reading a bit too much between the lines now, i haven't seen him say/post anything like that at all. Alex says the audience was calm, and after meeting him, though it was only like 30 Seconds, i know that when he means calm, he means REALLY calm (what i'd say is too calm, or dead) (no offence Alex, i hope you understand my angle here...), so i can't see it as a security issue at all.

    I will have to go back to my earlier guess and say the band, promoters, crew and/or security was just as bewildered as the audience, and the whole thing just ended up in an anti-climax for everyone. A happy mishap, if you will... If this had happened at any American or Western European show we wouldn't get so hung up on it, but i understand the Rus who FINALLY got to see Sab feel there should've been a real end to the show. And as an everlasting Sab-fan, i would like to think they'd had the balls to go out there and take a bow, throw picks etc...

    Man, i've written this post 6 times and still can't explain myself in the right manner, but this is the best i can care for now... Some of us have jobs to turn up hung over to in the morning...
    Last edited by Billy Underdog; 06-02-2014 at 04:40 PM. Reason: simple grammar :P
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  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexBarghest View Post
    That's the point Jeff, that never happened here. No picks, no bows, not even "goodbye, god bless you all" blabber. And again they have never played here with Ozzy. It's not States, where you have them each year they tour. People were waiting for decades.
    I understand that it was disappointing, Alex.

    But my point is that there is no track record of Sabbath leaving a concert without proper "bows," "waves," etc. And as such, I think we should presume that there was a reason behind them not being able to go through their common "goodbye" procedures.

    Maybe there was no immediate and clear explanation as to why the power went? In today's world, I can only imagine the precautions performers must take when there is any question of a possible security issue.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
    Maybe there was no immediate and clear explanation as to why the power went? In today's world, I can only imagine the precautions performers must take when there is any question of a possible security issue.
    YYYEEEEEAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! PUSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSYYYYYYYYYY RIIIIIIIIIIIOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTTTTTTTTTTTT TTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




    goodnight



    (not every non-american is a terrorist, you know ;-) just almost everyone...)
    95% of everything i say is pure bullshit just for the fun of it. The other 95% is damn serious!
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  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Underdog View Post
    YYYEEEEEAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! PUSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSYYYYYYYYYY RIIIIIIIIIIIOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTTTTTTTTTTTT TTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




    goodnight



    (not every non-american is a terrorist, you know ;-) just almost everyone...)
    Heh. My guess is that whatever security measures are in place, America is no exception.

    Again, I'm only guessing based on this being so unusual.

    Btw, if it was a security concern, you can probably bet your ass that any measures taken (if by Sabbath's own security team) would be the same in Moscow as in London as in Dallas ...

    Where they were would have nothing to with it.

  10. #50

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    I'm sure there was lots of confusion after that happened. So they didn't do the exact thing they should have. Hindsight is 2020

  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by OIM View Post
    *I blame $haron for this fiasco.

    *humor
    *She was probably off anonymously donating large sums of money to a Russian kids hospital at the time.

    *humour

  12. #52
    Now in Darkness's Avatar
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    Thanks Alex. Trying to get a straight answer out of Jeff can ba a challenge, as the goal posts tend to move in his favour, but I'm glad that Billy and I got it right. Sorry Jeff, I was thinking of Tim1954. Nothing serious intended.
    Last edited by Now in Darkness; 06-02-2014 at 08:22 PM.
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  13. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Now in Darkness View Post
    Thanks Alex. Trying to get a straight answer out of Jeff can ba a challenge, as the goal posts tend to move in his favour, but I'm glad that Billy and I got it right. Sorry Jeff, I was thinking of Tim1954. Nothing serious intended.
    A straight answer about what? If I was asked a question by you, I missed it. Talk about "moving goalposts," I don't even know what game you're playing.

    I don't really follow any of this. If it is all some inside joke at my expense, then that seems unnecessary and it's really not cool, is it?

    I asked a simple question but let me rephrase it for those who hadn't had their coffee yet:

    You have a crazy crowd, the power has gone haywire and you have finished your regular set. Why would anyone assume they know anything about why the band didn't come back? Why would anyone assume they could go back out with no way to communicate (no power) and what ... mime that the power was out and then take a bow? Yell at their top of their lungs (no power, no mic) in English to a Russian audience that the power was out and take a bow?

    Just seems uncool to me to assume that the band were somehow disrespectful of the audience or dismissive. We don't know what happened.

  14. #54

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    I don't see the need to muster the Sabbath defence league here, Alex is the guy that was actually there and he wasn't bagging them out...we all know that this is a one off, bizarre occurrence- and it was obviously disappointing.

  15. #55

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    FB post seems to indicate there was some chaos:

    https://www.facebook.com/BlackSabbat...719615?fref=nf

  16. #56
    Now in Darkness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheels Of Confusion View Post
    I don't see the need to muster the Sabbath defence league here, Alex is the guy that was actually there and he wasn't bagging them out...we all know that this is a one off, bizarre occurrence- and it was obviously disappointing.
    Well said Wheels. I agree fully.
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  17. #57

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    I'm sure the band weren't too happy about it either, it would be a bummer for them too.
    This must be the first (full show) since 1970 that didn't feature Paranoid!

  18. #58
    Billy Underdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
    You have a crazy crowd, the power has gone haywire and you have finished your regular set. Why would anyone assume they know anything about why the band didn't come back? Why would anyone assume they could go back out with no way to communicate (no power) and what ... mime that the power was out and then take a bow? Yell at their top of their lungs (no power, no mic) in English to a Russian audience that the power was out and take a bow?
    Once again, i have to think like a "hardcore" fan and say if they'd gone out and taken the bow, thrown picks and shit, i would've understood "something is wrong, and they're ending the show". Much more satisfying than a dead end. Whoever (if anyone) decided the right thing to do, security wise or otherwise, was to not go out again, was over-the-top cautious (imo).

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheels Of Confusion View Post
    I'm sure the band weren't too happy about it either, it would be a bummer for them too.
    This must be the first (full show) since 1970 that didn't feature Paranoid!
    Atleast one positive thing came out of it, then... (joke alert)
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  19. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Now in Darkness View Post
    Well said Wheels. I agree fully.
    Really?

    So you agree with WoC that Alex calling it "lame" and "unprofessional" isn't even just a little bit of "bagging?"

    Btw, I'm not saying Sabbath shouldn't be "bagged" on. I don't know the reasoning behind the decision. All I am pointing out is that, at this point, neither do any of us.

    So why don't we relax and feel free to converse about this without the phony group hugs?

  20. #60

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    Well, it is "lame" and "unprofessional" any way you cut it- but it's definitely a freak occurrence with this band (and the offshoots)...see Guns N Roses/ Axl Rose for lame and unprofessional.
    I just meant that Alex is entitled to say it sucked as he was there, and I don't translate that to him attacking, bagging, shitcanning the band or anything like that.

  21. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheels Of Confusion View Post
    Well, it is "lame" and "unprofessional" any way you cut it- but it's definitely a freak occurrence with this band (and the offshoots)...see Guns N Roses/ Axl Rose for lame and unprofessional.
    I just meant that Alex is entitled to say it sucked as he was there, and I don't translate that to him attacking, bagging, shitcanning the band or anything like that.
    I hear ya.

    But let's face it, if it was some type of (real or perceived) security concern, I'm not sure we can classify the way it was handled as "unprofessional." That is, unless somebody here is expert in such matters. I'm not.

  22. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
    I hear ya.

    But let's face it, if it was some type of (real or perceived) security concern, I'm not sure we can classify the way it was handled as "unprofessional." That is, unless somebody here is expert in such matters. I'm not.
    Can't argue with that.

  23. #63

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