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  1. #1
    William_the_Bloody's Avatar
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    Default It's 2019 and I'm still 100% convinced...

    That Bill Ward sang "Planet Caravan" and "Solitude"

    I do not know why the band will not admit this...it may just totally boil down to an inside joke that they vowed never to blow the punchline?

    Both tracks resemble nothing of Ozzy's voice, yet totally make you think of Bill's on "It's Alright" and his solo record(s).

    I just don't know of any "better" proof than listening to them.

    Look: Dio slipped between a few different modes...think "Rainbow Eyes" versus "Rainbow in the Dark" but you can still tell it's Dio, the entire vocal imprint doesn't change.

    We all know Ozzy is not a "Singer" but a performer...there's simply no way Ozzy has the ability to completely lose his sound *while at the same time managing to sound entirely like Bill Ward* the odds are astronomical.

    Occam's Razor insists the band simply doesn't admit the truth about who sang those songs for reasons we are not privy to.

    Convince me otherwise?

    Thanks.

  2. #2
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    It’s Ozzy on both those tracks, they sound like Ozzy.
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
    ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzzyIsDio View Post
    It’s Ozzy on both those tracks, they sound like Ozzy.
    Yeah. I always could hear Ozzy on those songs. Different yes, but definitely the Ozzman


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  5. #4

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    It doesn't sound like Bill at all.

    It sounds different, because unlike the vast majority of songs Ozzy has performed on, with Sabbath or otherwise, he is deliberately singing soft and delicately.
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    William_the_Bloody's Avatar
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    Yeah, no...not convinced. It does not sound like Ozzy; it does sound like Bill Ward. Like I said, a person can sing soft and delicate and still sound like themselves. I'm just hearing the party line here. Again, I believe the band simply does not admit the truth for some reason we do not know or can even guess.

    Does anyone have any personal evidence that Ozzy sang these tracks?

  7. #6
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    Ozzy is singing these songs ! It doesnt sound like Bill at all. I am 100 % sure about that. No question about that at all.

  8. #7
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    It sounds like Ozzy,i think Bill has a darker voice.

  9. #8
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    I disagree. I think it definetly sounds like Ozzy. I never understood all the arguments that it's not him.

  10. #9
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    William YOUR DELERIOUS.. it's Ozzy no question about it
    "Music is so sacred to me that I can’t hear wishy-washy nonsense just played for the sake of selling records."
    R. Blackmore

  11. #10

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    I can't believe it, the band that I thought I knew for over 38 years was a sham! Now that this elaborate ruse has been exposed, many more myths will be debunked. For example, Tony managed to hide the fact that Bill did not play on several Sabbath songs, it was in fact Bonzo Bonham.

  12. #11

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    Guys , let's cut William a little slack ,, he was one of the few involved in the BSO "fiascos" who remained part of our Sabbath family .... and yes his post at times cause some hard feelings for people ,,,, BUT lots of times his actions cause some well needed traffic .... so kudos to "The Bloody" ....


    Many people here , at one time or another , I'm sure have asked themselves the same question William is throwing out there .... I know this myself , because new , and long standing Sabbath fans have asked me this very question ..... ESPECIALLY after hearing "She's Gone" - sounding like Ozzy ,,, and then finding out Bill sings both "It's Alright" and "Swinging The Chain" ... makes sense right ??

    ..... With that being said ,, both "PC" and "Solitude" are in fact Ozzy on vocals .... William , a thought for you - Get both the PARANOID and MOR Delux releases and go to the out-takes section ,, find and listen to both "PC" and "Solitude" out-takes ,, this will do 2 immediate things -

    1 , it will tell you whoever sang these two tracks on the finished product , is in fact the very same person from these out-takes ... enunciation , texture , delivery , and feel are identical.

    2 , that it is without doubt Ozzy on both out-takes , therefore , you have your answer.



    .... to a far lesser extent , even "Zeitgeist" lends credence to it being Ozzy on "PC".
    Last edited by BACK TO EDEN; 04-25-2019 at 08:49 PM. Reason: God Bless Sabbath maniacs!!

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by William_the_Bloody View Post
    That Bill Ward sang "Planet Caravan" and "Solitude"

    I do not know why the band will not admit this...it may just totally boil down to an inside joke that they vowed never to blow the punchline?

    Both tracks resemble nothing of Ozzy's voice, yet totally make you think of Bill's on "It's Alright" and his solo record(s).

    I just don't know of any "better" proof than listening to them.

    Look: Dio slipped between a few different modes...think "Rainbow Eyes" versus "Rainbow in the Dark" but you can still tell it's Dio, the entire vocal imprint doesn't change.

    We all know Ozzy is not a "Singer" but a performer...there's simply no way Ozzy has the ability to completely lose his sound *while at the same time managing to sound entirely like Bill Ward* the odds are astronomical.

    Occam's Razor insists the band simply doesn't admit the truth about who sang those songs for reasons we are not privy to.

    Convince me otherwise?

    Thanks.
    Man, I'm going to throw you some support here. I have never been satisfied that these songs, especially 'Solitude', is Ozzy's voice.

    How can the rest of you guys suggest it sounds like Ozzy? It's a clean, clear and controlled voice with a warm timbre to it. Ozzy's is so unique and with a touch of the abrasive to it. It really doesn't sound like Ozzy.

    No matter how many times I listen to them I just can't help but think how it simply doesn't sound like Ozzy.

    Look, I could be wrong, and it may well be, but I have serious doubts.

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Requiem View Post
    Man, I'm going to throw you some support here. I have never been satisfied that these songs, especially 'Solitude', is Ozzy's voice.

    How can the rest of you guys suggest it sounds like Ozzy? It's a clean, clear and controlled voice with a warm timbre to it. Ozzy's is so unique and with a touch of the abrasive to it. It really doesn't sound like Ozzy.

    No matter how many times I listen to them I just can't help but think how it simply doesn't sound like Ozzy.

    Look, I could be wrong, and it may well be, but I have serious doubts.
    Phew, finally, someone gets it! I can't even believe BTE threw "Zeitgeist" into the mix as evidence because nothing sounds more like Ozzy Osburne than bloody Zeitgeist! lol. In fact, Zeitgeist is more to my point. They were clearly trying to emulate Planet Caravan with that track, and Ozzy sounds *nothing* like the singer on PC.

    I *have* listened to the outtakes of both songs and I still do not hear Ozzy Osbourne on those tracks.

    Again, I don't know why the Party line is that Ozzy sang them. Maybe Ozzy was so stoned he thought he did? So the guys just went with it and will never spoil the joke?

    I thank you Backtoeden for the support, not real sure what the BSO incident was and I do not recall being involved with such a thing. However, I've been around as long as the internet and I'mn pretty sure I found my way here pretty quickly.

    And yeah, there are a ton of fans, both casual and hard-core, that believe it's not Ozzy on these tracks, or are undecided.

    I implore you all to understand that just because a band says something about themselves doesn't make it true, it just means it's what they want you to think about them or their work.

    And again, just to illustrate: RJD sang "An Angel Is Missing" in the late 50's/early 60's. He's not trying to sound metal, he's being soft and delicate and he's at least 10 years younger than we're used to hearing him...but I'll be effed if you can't go, immediately, "Well gosh, there's RJD right there!"

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by William_the_Bloody View Post
    Phew, finally, someone gets it! I can't even believe BTE threw "Zeitgeist" into the mix as evidence because nothing sounds more like Ozzy Osburne than bloody Zeitgeist! lol. In fact, Zeitgeist is more to my point. They were clearly trying to emulate Planet Caravan with that track, and Ozzy sounds *nothing* like the singer on PC.
    William , I think we can agree "Zeitgeist" is a part 2 for "PC" ,, tho I do have my theory why Zeitgeist is actually a prequel for PC .... anyway with that being said , no matter how you look at it , Zeitgeist is deliberately cut from the same cloth as PC on PURPOSE ..... they would have never choose this direction if PC was NOT sung by Ozzy to begin with ,,,, hence no "It's Alright" / "Swinging The Chain" references on "13" .... and for it's time (76) "It's Alright" was as well thought of as "PC" was in the early 70s.


    ..... again I'm just trying to give some examples ,,, and Zeitgeist was the weaker of my 2 examples , but the fact that this example even exist should help clear up the "is this Ozzy" thought process .... 'anywho' , being a musician yourself , the 2 outtakes are blatantly Mr. Osbourne.


    ..... lastly ,, I was trying to use examples to get you there .... but , examples aside , I assure you I have much evidence in my Sabbath collection that both "PC" and "Solitude" are Ozzy.


    God Bless

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by William_the_Bloody View Post
    Does anyone have any personal evidence that Ozzy sang these tracks?
    Do you have any personal evidence he didn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by William_the_Bloody View Post
    Like I said, a person can sing soft and delicate and still sound like themselves.
    So because someone can, means no one ever can do the opposite? It's literally impossible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Requiem View Post
    I have never been satisfied that these songs, especially 'Solitude', is Ozzy's voice.

    How can the rest of you guys suggest it sounds like Ozzy? It's a clean, clear and controlled voice with a warm timbre to it.
    I don't know if you meant something completely different than I am thinking, but the vocals on Solitude sound anything but "controlled" to me. He very much sounds like he's semi-struggling especially in the higher sections.

    And the vibrato at the end of the line "when I begged you to stay" reminds me a lot of the same vibrato used on the ends of most of the lines from the War Pigs verses. Not that they're just vibrato in each instance, but the vibrato in one song sounds like it's coming from the same person in the other song.

    And finally (I could have sworn I already posted this, but it doesn't look like it showed up, so here it goes again),

    why does this thread even exist? After reading his responses after the OP, it is quite evident that William's mind is already made up and nothing is going to change it.
    Last edited by Icy Sun; 04-27-2019 at 07:53 AM.
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  17. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by BACK TO EDEN View Post
    William , I think we can agree "Zeitgeist" is a part 2 for "PC" ,, tho I do have my theory why Zeitgeist is actually a prequel for PC .... anyway with that being said , no matter how you look at it , Zeitgeist is deliberately cut from the same cloth as PC on PURPOSE ..... they would have never choose this direction if PC was NOT sung by Ozzy to begin with ,,,, hence no "It's Alright" / "Swinging The Chain" references on "13" .... and for it's time (76) "It's Alright" was as well thought of as "PC" was in the early 70s.


    ..... again I'm just trying to give some examples ,,, and Zeitgeist was the weaker of my 2 examples , but the fact that this example even exist should help clear up the "is this Ozzy" thought process .... 'anywho' , being a musician yourself , the 2 outtakes are blatantly Mr. Osbourne.


    ..... lastly ,, I was trying to use examples to get you there .... but , examples aside , I assure you I have much evidence in my Sabbath collection that both "PC" and "Solitude" are Ozzy.


    God Bless
    I agree that ZG is PT2 of PC or Prequel if you prefer. On purpose, of course. However, the idea that "they would have never choose this direction if PC was NOT sung by Ozzy to begin with" is not logical and the fact that Ozzy is NOT singing like he (allegedly) sang on PC demonstrates that he likely can't, because he didn't. Else he would try to recapture that style, presumably.

    "Being a musician myself" = That isn't Ozzy's voice, at all. If I can be proven wrong, so be it, but so far I haven't had any proof offered, only opposing opinions and conjecture based on (what seems to be) "fans" insistence that the Band is telling the truth about who sang these tracks and therefore hearing what they want to hear when it's not there to be heard. Cognitive dissonance at it's finest.

    Lastly: I am not privy to this "evidence" you have, therefore I logically remain unaffected by it. How could it be otherwise?

    God Bless you, as well.

  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icy Sun View Post
    Do you have any personal evidence he didn't?



    So because someone can, means no one ever can do the opposite? It's literally impossible?



    I don't know if you meant something completely different than I am thinking, but the vocals on Solitude sound anything but "controlled" to me. He very much sounds like he's semi-struggling especially in the higher sections.

    And the vibrato at the end of the line "when I begged you to stay" reminds me a lot of the same vibrato used on the ends of most of the lines from the War Pigs verses. Not that they're just vibrato in each instance, but the vibrato in one song sounds like it's coming from the same person in the other song.

    And finally (I could have sworn I already posted this, but it doesn't look like it showed up, so here it goes again),

    why does this thread even exist? After reading his responses after the OP, it is quite evident that William's mind is already made up and nothing is going to change it.
    "Someone never can" = Can't prove a negative, but if you have any ready examples we can prove that they *can*

    "Struggling" = I guess this is a fine example of how different people can be totally wrong on what they're hearing. What struggle? There's no struggle. Total mystery what you think you're hearing there.

    "Vibrato" = I'm making Shaniqua face right now because I'm not even sure you're using the term properly, as there's really no "Vibrato" in War Pigs or Solitude. "When I begged you to Stay" "Stay" isn't even held, so how can it have Vibrato? Confused.

    Why does this thread exist? Because someone eventually might have some actual proof/evidence to show. Just because you don't doesn't mean the thread shouldn't exist. Are we running out of internet? Not sure why you're concerned.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by William_the_Bloody View Post
    "Someone never can" = Can't prove a negative, but if you have any ready examples we can prove that they *can*
    I do. Ozzy. Other than that literally any singer who can do both cleans and death growls?

    Another example is Steven Tyler not sounding anything like the Steven Tyler we all know on the first Aerosmith album except like on the high section of Dream On.

    Rob Halford using his lower register on the first few JP albums... If I heard short clips of those songs with Rob only using the lower register, I would never guess that is Rob Halford...

    "Struggling" = I guess this is a fine example of how different people can be totally wrong on what they're hearing.
    The whole premise of this thread is a fine example as well.


    Why does this thread exist? Because someone eventually might have some actual proof/evidence to show.
    And what kind of proof are you expecting from any of US? The strongest proof any of us "normies" could ever possibly have is what the band has themselves said. That's not proof enough for you. What kind of smoking gun either way do you expect any of us to have?
    Last edited by Icy Sun; 04-27-2019 at 09:54 AM.
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  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by William_the_Bloody View Post

    Convince me otherwise?
    William,

    Have you ever heard the Deluxe Edition of Paranoid with bonus tracks?

    I'm sure you can YT it if not, but it has an early version of "Planet Caravan" where Ozzy is scat singing and working out the melodies.

    Maybe hearing that would help you make the connection?

    It's interesting because in the days before the internet I always assumed it was Bill singing both songs, but once I heard the truth about it and then listened more attentively it became obvious to me that it had always been Ozzy. It was as if at some point I just crossed over into hearing it and now I find it to be unmistakably Ozzy.

    As long as this has come up, Ozzy was one heck of a versatile singer (back when he could consistently sing). If you think about the guy doing "Symptom Of The Universe," "Changes" and "Solitude" it's astonishing how much stylistic range there is there. And those are just a few examples!
    "It is not opinion that Ozzy peaked on Sabotage, it is a measurable fact."
    -WTB

  21. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by BACK TO EDEN View Post
    Guys , let's cut William a little slack ,, he was one of the few involved in the BSO "fiascos" who remained part of our Sabbath family .... and yes his post at times cause some hard feelings for people ,,,, BUT lots of times his actions cause some well needed traffic .... so kudos to "The Bloody" ....


    Many people here , at one time or another , I'm sure have asked themselves the same question William is throwing out there .... I know this myself , because new , and long standing Sabbath fans have asked me this very question ..... ESPECIALLY after hearing "She's Gone" - sounding like Ozzy ,,, and then finding out Bill sings both "It's Alright" and "Swinging The Chain" ... makes sense right ??

    ..... With that being said ,, both "PC" and "Solitude" are in fact Ozzy on vocals .... William , a thought for you - Get both the PARANOID and MOR Delux releases and go to the out-takes section ,, find and listen to both "PC" and "Solitude" out-takes ,, this will do 2 immediate things -

    1 , it will tell you whoever sang these two tracks on the finished product , is in fact the very same person from these out-takes ... enunciation , texture , delivery , and feel are identical.

    2 , that it is without doubt Ozzy on both out-takes , therefore , you have your answer.



    .... to a far lesser extent , even "Zeitgeist" lends credence to it being Ozzy on "PC".
    William here is your proof evidence answer
    Thanks Doc \m/

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    I was going to point you towards the existing available outtakes, as Doc did. I believe them both to be Ozzy.

  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BACK TO EDEN View Post
    Guys , let's cut William a little slack ,, he was one of the few involved in the BSO "fiascos" who remained part of our Sabbath family .... and yes his post at times cause some hard feelings for people ,,,, BUT lots of times his actions cause some well needed traffic .... so kudos to "The Bloody" ....


    Many people here , at one time or another , I'm sure have asked themselves the same question William is throwing out there .... I know this myself , because new , and long standing Sabbath fans have asked me this very question ..... ESPECIALLY after hearing "She's Gone" - sounding like Ozzy ,,, and then finding out Bill sings both "It's Alright" and "Swinging The Chain" ... makes sense right ??

    ..... With that being said ,, both "PC" and "Solitude" are in fact Ozzy on vocals .... William , a thought for you - Get both the PARANOID and MOR Delux releases and go to the out-takes section ,, find and listen to both "PC" and "Solitude" out-takes ,, this will do 2 immediate things -

    1 , it will tell you whoever sang these two tracks on the finished product , is in fact the very same person from these out-takes ... enunciation , texture , delivery , and feel are identical.

    2 , that it is without doubt Ozzy on both out-takes , therefore , you have your answer.



    .... to a far lesser extent , even "Zeitgeist" lends credence to it being Ozzy on "PC".
    William is cool.

    Quote Originally Posted by Requiem View Post
    Man, I'm going to throw you some support here. I have never been satisfied that these songs, especially 'Solitude', is Ozzy's voice.

    How can the rest of you guys suggest it sounds like Ozzy? It's a clean, clear and controlled voice with a warm timbre to it. Ozzy's is so unique and with a touch of the abrasive to it. It really doesn't sound like Ozzy.

    No matter how many times I listen to them I just can't help but think how it simply doesn't sound like Ozzy.

    Look, I could be wrong, and it may well be, but I have serious doubts.
    When you love Ozzy as much as do, and I love the man immensely, you know it's him.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Sabman Cometh View Post
    I can't believe it, the band that I thought I knew for over 38 years was a sham! Now that this elaborate ruse has been exposed, many more myths will be debunked. For example, Tony managed to hide the fact that Bill did not play on several Sabbath songs, it was in fact Bonzo Bonham.
    Damn Sabman, that would rock, the Rock world had that come out, that Bonzo was involved in Sabbath!
    Last edited by OzzyIsDio; 04-28-2019 at 05:19 PM.
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    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
    ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

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    Okay, so I took a closer listen to the outtakes available on YT.

    One thing is absolutely certain: Whomever sang "PC" also sang "S"

    Listening to the rougher vocal tracks still did not make me think "Ozzy" *but* I also decided it wasn't Bill.

    Why? Bill is kind of choir/church sort of vocalist. The PC/S singer is more self taught, and there's an edge in the voice.

    Now there is one acceptable shred of evidence that forces me to concede it is probably Ozzy:

    At the beginning of one of them, I think "S", someone laughs into the mic and the laugh is *clearly* coming from Ozzy..I'd know that laugh anywhere.

    So that puts him at the scene and involved to my satisfaction, or as much as I can possibly have.

    Combine that with the Bands' own testimony and I think that settles it.

    Not to mention the overwhelming insistence here giving enough weight.

    Case closed.

  25. #24
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    One more note: If I only had PC to go by, I would've stayed with my disbelief. The "Scat Track" vocals are more lucid than the other offerings we usually get from Ozzy and did not include a "You're all insane" so it didn't help ID anyone.

  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by William_the_Bloody View Post
    Okay, so I took a closer listen to the outtakes available on YT.

    One thing is absolutely certain: Whomever sang "PC" also sang "S"

    Listening to the rougher vocal tracks still did not make me think "Ozzy" *but* I also decided it wasn't Bill.

    Why? Bill is kind of choir/church sort of vocalist. The PC/S singer is more self taught, and there's an edge in the voice.

    Now there is one acceptable shred of evidence that forces me to concede it is probably Ozzy:

    At the beginning of one of them, I think "S", someone laughs into the mic and the laugh is *clearly* coming from Ozzy..I'd know that laugh anywhere.

    So that puts him at the scene and involved to my satisfaction, or as much as I can possibly have.

    Combine that with the Bands' own testimony and I think that settles it.

    Not to mention the overwhelming insistence here giving enough weight.

    Case closed.
    I’m glad you came to your conclusion William.
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
    ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

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    I'd also wager that the guide lyrics for 'Planet Caravan' are unmistakably Ozzy, at least as he was in 1970.

  28. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SweetSymptom View Post
    I'd also wager that the guide lyrics for 'Planet Caravan' are unmistakably Ozzy, at least as he was in 1970.
    What guide lyrics Sweet?
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
    ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

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    Quote Originally Posted by William_the_Bloody View Post

    Now there is one acceptable shred of evidence that forces me to concede it is probably Ozzy:

    At the beginning of one of them, I think "S", someone laughs into the mic and the laugh is *clearly* coming from Ozzy..I'd know that laugh anywhere.

    Case closed.
    Perhaps Ozzy was there in the studio and laughed because of this great prank they were playing, that their mate so-and-so was doing the vocals and no one was going to find out? Why else laugh? "Hey, we're doing a take of a song, lol!". I doubt it. So they were all there and they thought it would be funny and cool have include Ozzy's laugh as a point of irony. Then Ozzy forgot.

    Case re-opened!

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